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View Full Version : Did Darth Vader want the Death Star destroyed?


ITR champion
07-03-2009, 12:18 PM
During the many times when I watched Star Wars as a child, I always took it at face value. Princess Leia has somehow managed to steal the plans for the death star and Luke Skywalker bravely manages to pull of a one-in-a-million shot that destroys the thing with a little assistance from Han Solo. Last weekend I watched the movie again, for the first time in my adult life, and now I'm questioning the traditional interpretation. It seems that everything which took place actually happened because Darth Vader wanted it to happen, especially the destruction of the Death Star.

Firstly, Darth Vader has the motive. At the beginning of the movie he seems to be having a power struggle with Grand Moff Tarkin. The exact nature of the struggle is never explained, but there's definitely tension there, and Vader's power is clearly less than absolute. By letting the Death Star be destroyed, Vader not only kills Tarkin but wipes out the entire military hierarchy. By the start of the next movie he's in absolute command of the military. (Why the Emperor promoted him after his first failure is not explained, but then again corporate America works the same way.)

Second, Darth Vader had the means. He knows that Obi Wan Kenobi disabled the tractor beam earlier in the movie. He could easily have restored the tractor beam to operational status and then used it to pull in and destroy the X-wings. Instead he allows the X-wings to reach the surface of the Death Star and make an attack run. After that, he decides to engage them ship-to-ship. He also decides to fly one of the fighters himself, which is surely an unusual decision for someone at the top. And he orders his other fighters to cover him while he makes the destroying shots himself. In that way Vader, conveniently manages to destroy every X-wing except the one piloted by Luke, and Luke manages to fire a killing shot. Then everyone on the Death Star dies, and the only survivor is ... Darth Vader.

Furthermore, have you ever asked yourself, "How exactly did Leia get those plans?" Surely a reasonably competent person could have hidden the plans in a place where they couldn't be stolen. I suspect that Darth Vader hid them under deliberately loose security and tipped off the rebels to where they were. The rest of the movie is basically an elaborate farce wherein Vader makes it appear as if he's fighting the rebels, when in reality he's aiding them. This explains why he sent such an incompetent force of Storm Troopers to capture the droids on Tatooine, why he allowed the Millenium Falcon to escape the Death Star, and why the Death Star emerged from light speed in the wrong position and had to wait half an hour before it could get a shot at the rebel base.

So how 'bout it? Is my interpretation correct?

Johnny L.A.
07-03-2009, 12:47 PM
Firstly, Darth Vader has the motive. At the beginning of the movie he seems to be having a power struggle with Grand Moff Tarkin. The exact nature of the struggle is never explained, but there's definitely tension there, and Vader's power is clearly less than absolute.
I took it to be a situation like ones that existed earlier in totalitarian societies. For example, Adolf Hitler played his generals against each other.
By letting the Death Star be destroyed, Vader not only kills Tarkin but wipes out the entire military hierarchy. By the start of the next movie he's in absolute command of the military.
The Death Star was as big as a small moon, but it didn't comprise the entire military hierarchy. The Star Destroyers were formidable in themselves, and there had to be a command structure over them.
He could easily have restored the tractor beam to operational status and then used it to pull in and destroy the X-wings.
The tractor beam might have been used against a flight (leader and wingman, an echelon, or a small formation) of fighters, but unless the Death Star had multiple tractor beams (it was implied it didn't), then it could not have taken on several fighters attacking from different directions.
After that, he decides to engage them ship-to-ship. He also decides to fly one of the fighters himself, which is surely an unusual decision for someone at the top.
IIRC Bismarck could not successfully engage the British Swordfish aircraf because the aircraft were too slow for the guns. The AA turrets were designed to defend against more modern fighters. Death Star had the same problem, so they had to resort to a fighter-to-fighter battle. Vader had good reason to believe he was invulnerable. By getting into the fray himself he gets to claim the glory of victory (had they won) at little risk to himself. But Luke's skills were a match for his, and he was too focused on his quarry to defend himself from the classic diving attack from behind.
Furthermore, have you ever asked yourself, "How exactly did Leia get those plans?" Surely a reasonably competent person could have hidden the plans in a place where they couldn't be stolen.
It doesn't matter how she got the plans. She got them. John Walker operated a spy ring, and he was in a trusted position. Same with Christopher Boyce.
he allowed the Millenium Falcon to escape the Death Star, and why the Death Star emerged from light speed in the wrong position and had to wait half an hour before it could get a shot at the rebel base.
It was brought up that the escape from Death Star was 'too easy'. The plan was to allow Millennium Falcon to escape so that it could be followed to the Rebel base. As for where Death Star emerged from hyperspace, I suspect that relativistic astrogation requires some leeway. Also, the Empire didn't know where the Rebel base was. They'd need at least a little lead-time to find their targets.

kaylasdad99
07-03-2009, 12:47 PM
No. Lucas isn't that subtle.

ETA: That was the answer to the OP's final question.

Chimera
07-03-2009, 12:49 PM
I always thought that the Emperor deliberately allowed the Rebellion to get the plans to the Death Star because he underestimated them and figured 1> They were no real threat, and 2> They would be destroyed before they could do anything, and 3> There was no weakness in the Death Star that they could reasonably exploit.

Darth Anakin is a glory hogging narcissist who is exactly the type of person to say "Dammitall, I'll just jump in a fighter and take out these clowns myself. They're no match for me!"

Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor
07-03-2009, 01:29 PM
This site provides lot of info on the Death Star, the Imperial Navy, & Darth Vader's underpants, if you really wish to know of them.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

RickJay
07-03-2009, 01:38 PM
kaylasdad99 pretty much sinks this in one: Lucas isn't that subtle. He also isn't that smart.

Vader's position at the commencement of "Star Wars" is a bit inconsistent with the way "Revenge of the Sith" ends. It's never explained why Vader is the Emperor's no-questions-asked right hand man and then, suddenly, Tarkin appears to be the military generalissimo; even if Vader has a direct line to the Emperor it's pretty clear that Tarkin wears the big boy pants with respect to the uniformed military.

Vader betraying the Empire to kill off opposition is a neat idea but it's inconsistent with "Episode III" and, in any event, it's hopelessly inconsistent with the way George Lucas tells stories. If that had been Vader's intent, it would have been about as subtle as a Roman triumph.

Snooooopy
07-03-2009, 01:50 PM
Second, Darth Vader had the means. He knows that Obi Wan Kenobi disabled the tractor beam earlier in the movie. He could easily have restored the tractor beam to operational status and then used it to pull in and destroy the X-wings. Instead he allows the X-wings to reach the surface of the Death Star and make an attack run. After that, he decides to engage them ship-to-ship. He also decides to fly one of the fighters himself, which is surely an unusual decision for someone at the top. And he orders his other fighters to cover him while he makes the destroying shots himself. In that way Vader, conveniently manages to destroy every X-wing except the one piloted by Luke, and Luke manages to fire a killing shot. Then everyone on the Death Star dies, and the only survivor is ... Darth Vader.

On the final run in the trench, I can't imagine Vader is saying, "Now, all I need is for some ship -- perhaps piloted by a lovable rogue -- to dive in from above and attack my formation in just such a way that my fighter is thrown clear of the Death Star so I don't get any boo-boos when it gets blown up."

Bijou Drains
07-03-2009, 02:29 PM
He's the Emperor's right hand man because he's the other sith lord living. Remember there are only 2 of them that exist at any 1 time.

ITR champion
07-03-2009, 02:53 PM
Vader's position at the commencement of "Star Wars" is a bit inconsistent with the way "Revenge of the Sith" ends. It's never explained why Vader is the Emperor's no-questions-asked right hand man and then, suddenly, Tarkin appears to be the military generalissimo; even if Vader has a direct line to the Emperor it's pretty clear that Tarkin wears the big boy pants with respect to the uniformed military.

Perhaps Tarkin actually did something right once in a while, which seems to be more than Darth Vader can say.

silenus
07-03-2009, 04:14 PM
Vader's position at the commencement of "Star Wars" is a bit inconsistent with the way "Revenge of the Sith" ends. It's never explained why Vader is the Emperor's no-questions-asked right hand man and then, suddenly, Tarkin appears to be the military generalissimo; even if Vader has a direct line to the Emperor it's pretty clear that Tarkin wears the big boy pants with respect to the uniformed military.

Read up on Communist or Islamic armies and it won't seem so strange. Tarkin is a military commander, Vader is a political agent.

Uosdwis R. Dewoh
07-03-2009, 04:38 PM
I always thought (before the prequels were released) that Tarkin was instrumental to the Emperors rise to power. In that scene where Vader is chocking the officer who demeaned the force, Tarkin orders Vader to stop and he sheepishly complies. It was clear to me that the officers are loyal to Tarkin first, and Vader could not defy Tarkin in front of his officers. Palpatine probably could not get rid of Tarkin without angering the military and I bet he shed no tears when he heard of Tarkin's demise. Vader probably dreamed of killing Tarking, and after he recovered from the shock of the destruction of the death star, he gleefully sang "ding-dong the bitch is dead" all the way back to Coruscant. It's a shame the Grand Moff didn't have a bigger role in the prequels. Instead we got the lame ass General Grievous.
By the start of the next movie he's in absolute command of the military. (Why the Emperor promoted him after his first failure is not explained, but then again corporate America works the same way.)
One of the things I liked about the prequels was that Palpatine was scared of Vader. Promoting someone over Vader would probably meant for Palpatine a long fall down one of the many pointless shafts the empire was known for.

Götterfunken
07-03-2009, 05:14 PM
Darth Anakin is a glory hogging narcissist who is exactly the type of person to say "Dammitall, I'll just jump in a fighter and take out these clowns myself. They're no match for me!"and "Yippee!"

:D

Johnny Q
07-03-2009, 05:28 PM
Promoting someone over Vader would probably meant for Palpatine a long fall down one of the many pointless shafts the empire was known for.

But they weren't pointless. That is what they were there for.

"PALPY: Watch your step, ambassador. This part of the base is still under construction and we haven't put up the guard rails yet. The shop stewards keep complaining but...<uses Force Push. Ambassador falls down shaft> Oopsy daisy! Just like that, actually.

Leaper
07-03-2009, 05:42 PM
Vader's position at the commencement of "Star Wars" is a bit inconsistent with the way "Revenge of the Sith" ends. It's never explained why Vader is the Emperor's no-questions-asked right hand man and then, suddenly, Tarkin appears to be the military generalissimo; even if Vader has a direct line to the Emperor it's pretty clear that Tarkin wears the big boy pants with respect to the uniformed military.


There was this one very funny Star Wars comic story that both explained the above AND gave a reason why Vader might want the Death Star destroyed. Hell, it even gave him a direct role in it!

Mister Rik
07-03-2009, 06:37 PM
The tractor beam might have been used against a flight (leader and wingman, an echelon, or a small formation) of fighters, but unless the Death Star had multiple tractor beams (it was implied it didn't), then it could not have taken on several fighters attacking from different directions.
Also, you don't drag a fully armed, hostile attack craft into your fortress. What are you going to do with it once you've got it in there? Most fortresses, the Death Star included, don't have cannons positioned to deliberately fire on its own interior, and I doubt that personal weapons are going to be especially effective against the shields and armor of a ship designed to withstand ship-mounted cannon fire. And even if you did all that, when the hostile ship blows up it's going to take a big chunk of your fortress with it.

IIRC Bismarck could not successfully engage the British Swordfish aircraf because the aircraft were too slow for the guns. The AA turrets were designed to defend against more modern fighters.
I would say the opposite. The Death Star's designers assumed that any attack against the DS would come from slow-moving capital ships attacking from range. The idea that somebody would attack with small, one-man fighters at close range was so ludicrous that they didn't even consider it, and thus didn't include appropriate countermeasures. This is the same reason the exhaust port was unshielded - no capital ship attacking from range (which is space can mean hundreds of kilometers) was going to be able to detect such a small target, much less hit it.

The Second Stone
07-04-2009, 12:04 AM
We don't know how R2-D2 got the plans. They could have been downloaded at Genosis during Attack of the Clones and later discovered by Capt Antilles, blowing not only cover on the project, but detailed plans that explained to the rebel Senate members just why so much capital expenditure was being made secretly.

I think that it is entirely plausible that Vader was playing all sides against each other. The prequels are all about Palpatine/Darth Sideous doing exactly that.

Ep IV has the reclusive Emperor presented to the public as not fully in charge and finally dissolving the Senate in a power play. Tarkin may also be about to engage in his own power play.

Kozmik
07-04-2009, 12:56 AM
Now we can understand what Darth Vader meant when he said, "The ability to destroy a planet is nothing compared to the power of the Force."

AK84
07-04-2009, 12:57 AM
Darth Vader IIRC in the expanded universe has little time for the Death Star, and he was even less happy about the destruction of Alderaan, something which backfired on the empire.

RogueAOV
07-04-2009, 01:26 AM
Grand Moff Tarkin, was the designer and the commander of the Death Star, and as it was the ultimate weapon of the Empire, i would imagine he would have quite a bit more say than Vader until he killed the emperor in ROTJ, Vader was a sith lord, and the Empire and the dark side are not the same thing. One assumes, they also practice the seperation between church and state.;)

The Death Star plans were stolen by Bothan spies and given to Antilles who passed them to Leia as she was a diplomat and the Empire should not have attacked or stopped the ship.

Captain Amazing
07-04-2009, 01:44 AM
Palpatine probably could not get rid of Tarkin without angering the military and I bet he shed no tears when he heard of Tarkin's demise.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Tarkin isn't a member of the military. Tarkin is a Grand Moff, a regional governor.

Mister Rik
07-04-2009, 02:10 AM
We don't know how R2-D2 got the plans. They could have been downloaded at Genosis during Attack of the Clones and later discovered by Capt Antilles, blowing not only cover on the project, but detailed plans that explained to the rebel Senate members just why so much capital expenditure was being made secretly.

Princess Leia loaded the plans into R2-D2's databanks at the same time she recorded her "Help me, Obi Wan ..." message, right before she was captured. The plans themselves were stolen by Bothans, a race that for whatever reason made very good spies. The Bothans delivered the plans to Leia or Antilles. One of the Rebel officers, right before the Battle of Yavin (I think), makes a remark along the lines of "A lot of Bothans died to get these plans to us; let's make sure they didn't die in vain."

Captain Amazing
07-04-2009, 02:14 AM
One of the Rebel officers, right before the Battle of Yavin (I think), makes a remark along the lines of "A lot of Bothans died to get these plans to us; let's make sure they didn't die in vain."

Return of the Jedi, Mon Mothma says "Many Bothans died to bring us this information." (Regarding the location of the second death star).

Odesio
07-04-2009, 02:28 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Tarkin isn't a member of the military. Tarkin is a Grand Moff, a regional governor.

He wore a military uniform in Star Wars so I think he was some sort of regional military gov.

Odesio

kaylasdad99
07-04-2009, 09:45 AM
Now we can understand what Darth Vader meant when he said, "The ability to destroy a planet is nothing compared to the power of the Force."Hey! A lot of people worked REALLY hard on that Death Star!

Not cool, dude. :(

RikWriter
07-04-2009, 10:43 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Tarkin isn't a member of the military. Tarkin is a Grand Moff, a regional governor.

Doesn't Leai call him "General Tarkin" in the first movie?

Mister Rik
07-04-2009, 10:50 AM
Return of the Jedi, Mon Mothma says "Many Bothans died to bring us this information." (Regarding the location of the second death star).

Gotcha, and thanks. I'm still ruling out R2 discovering and downloading the plans "off-screen" at any point during the prequels, though. Now that it's the next day and I'm arguably more awake I've remembered something else. When capturing Leia's ship Vader or somebody refers to the stolen plans having been beamed/transmitted to the Tantive IV. So it was implied that a spy had stolen the plans at some point in the previous few days and delivered said plans to the Tantive IV.

FoieGrasIsEvil
07-04-2009, 12:04 PM
He's the Emperor's right hand man because he's the other sith lord living. Remember there are only 2 of them that exist at any 1 time.

Refresh my memory for me, for I don't recall ever hearing that anywhere.

Bryan Ekers
07-04-2009, 12:49 PM
Refresh my memory for me, for I don't recall ever hearing that anywhere.

As far as I know, this gets exactly one reference, near the end of Phantom Menace. Yoda and Bad-Ass Motherfucker (as I recall) are discussing the Sith and Yoda says there are always two - "no more, no less".

It felt contrived and pointless, and arguably it was contradicted in the next two films. In other words - classic Lucas.

FoieGrasIsEvil
07-04-2009, 01:00 PM
As far as I know, this gets exactly one reference, near the end of Phantom Menace. Yoda and Bad-Ass Motherfucker (as I recall) are discussing the Sith and Yoda says there are always two - "no more, no less".

It felt contrived and pointless, and arguably it was contradicted in the next two films. In other words - classic Lucas.

That is confusing. When I would hear "Darth Vader, Lord Of The Sith", the presumption was always with me that "The Sith" were a people/race/planet that had powerful rulers (Lords) like Vader.

I guess I don't even know what a Sith Lord really is, or does, even. Except fight Jedi and serve at the behest of the Emperor (himself a Sith Lord!!??!!??).

silenus
07-04-2009, 01:10 PM
More than you ever wanted to know about the Sith. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith)

FoieGrasIsEvil
07-04-2009, 01:23 PM
More than you ever wanted to know about the Sith. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith)

Nice! So really then, Darth Vader was not a Sith Lord. There can be only two, Master and Apprentice. The Emperor was the Master, Vader the Apprentice. So Vader couldn't be a Lord over the only other Sith (The Emperor)!

Sorry for the hijack, OP. You have an interesting theory.

Chimera
07-04-2009, 01:29 PM
The problem with such things, ie "Only One Master" is that if something external happens to kill the Master, then important knowledge is lost. Perchance if both are lost to external causes, their line does not continue.

Götterfunken
07-04-2009, 02:33 PM
More than you ever wanted to know about the Sith. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith)From your cite: The ship [filled with rogue Jedi] crashed on the then-undiscovered planet of Korriban, where they found a race of Force-using reptillian sentients known as the Sith. Though the rogue Jedi were unfamiliar with the Siths' powers, they easily conquered the planet and proclaimed themselves the rulers of the Sith, hence the title "Sith Lord".Seriously?? Is this canon? Because that's almost as lame as midichlorians.

I always thought "the Sith" referred to a mysterious lore of arcane dark arts (or a secret organization devoted to the same--something along those lines). I never knew it referred to an actual species of aliens. But then, I've only ever watched the movies and have remained as ignorant as possible of the Expanded Universe.

Mister Rik
07-04-2009, 06:21 PM
From your cite: Seriously?? Is this canon? Because that's almost as lame as midichlorians.

I don't know who specifically spelled it out, but it was explained in one of the EU novels (one of Timothy Zahn's books, possibly) in the late '80s or early '90s. It was in the trilogy where Luke is beginning to rebuild the Jedi order, and if I remember correctly he chooses to establish his academy on Korriban, which has been long abandoned. The race of the Sith has long ago died off, but the structures they built are still there, still infused with the power of The Force.

magnusblitz
07-04-2009, 07:25 PM
The fact that Vader is more of a thug in Episode 4 and his role isn't clearly defined is just first-movie weirdness. Lucas obviously hadn't decided exactly how many details to fill in yet.

As for the Sith, yes, they were originally a race, but the humans (and other species) who learned the dark side of the Force also started calling themselves Sith.

Captain Amazing
07-04-2009, 08:49 PM
Doesn't Leai call him "General Tarkin" in the first movie?

She says, "Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash. I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board."

ExTank
07-04-2009, 09:17 PM
Here's a thought: by the time Ep. IV rolls around, Darth Vader is kind of "at loose ends." The Jedi are pretty much ancient history, The Empire is fairly secure, and the nascent Rebellion is being handled by "secular" authorities, a.k.a. Imperial Fleet and Grand Moff Tarkin.

Because while Vader was out exterminating the Jedi remnant, Tarkin was elbows deep in establishing/building The Empire, giving him great insight in its day-to-day operations, and all the various top-tier people who Make Things Happen. Vader doesn't have the experience/inclination to make a super-project like The Death Star happen. Tarkin does.

This puts Tarkin's "star" in ascension with Papa Palpatine, and Vader relegated to housekeeping scutwork, like running down Rebel spies.

If you notice in Ep. IV, a lot of Imperials are pretty bold with Vader; on the Tantive IV one of them actively disputes him, and on the Death Star, another openly mocks him (albeit briefly).

There's none of the "Oh, shit!" vibe we see from others towards Vader in Eps. V and VI.

So the Great Space Kablooey of Yavin certainly did work to Vader's benefit: the top brass is dead, the super-weapon is discredited (being "bad guys," they of course immediately repeat the same mistake), and now Papa Palpatine has to turn once again to his #1 Ass-Kicker/Name Taker.

Elendil's Heir
07-04-2009, 11:09 PM
That seems a fair explanation. I had the sense in Ep. IV that Vader was the Emperor's personal representative on the Death Star, but that Tarkin was the top guy with command authority on the station (and in the region; a grand moff is a regional governor, almost like a viceroy, IIRC). Tarkin had given the Emperor a very powerful new weapon and was feeling his oats, including having the confidence to tell Vader to stop Force-choking one of his mooks.

Snooooopy
07-05-2009, 12:24 AM
The problem with such things, ie "Only One Master" is that if something external happens to kill the Master, then important knowledge is lost. Perchance if both are lost to external causes, their line does not continue.

It might have a dry spell, but I would think the Master would have some kind of "How'd You Like To Gain Unlimited Power?" hologram secreted away that, eventually, would be found by someone who would get things going again.

ExTank
07-05-2009, 01:37 AM
Tarkin had given the Emperor a very powerful new weapon and was feeling his oats, including having the confidence to tell Vader to stop Force-choking one of his mooks.

Check out this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nGP1EdqyVY&feature=PlayList&p=52051D01F27DA049&index=3) clip. The "conference" starts at 4:07. Vader begins Force-choking Mr. Mouth around 5:35. But check out the other commander's reaction at 5:40. Kind of a surprised reaction, IMO, almost as if they all kinda shared Mr. Mouth's skepticism of Vader's abilities.

Justin_Bailey
07-05-2009, 01:59 AM
Check out this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nGP1EdqyVY&feature=PlayList&p=52051D01F27DA049&index=3) clip. The "conference" starts at 4:07. Vader begins Force-choking Mr. Mouth around 5:35. But check out the other commander's reaction at 5:40. Kind of a surprised reaction, IMO, almost as if they all kinda shared Mr. Mouth's skepticism of Vader's abilities.

Exactly. Jedi were rare even during the time of the prequels, I don't think the movies ever give an exact number but I think Yoda or Obi-Wan implies it's fewer than 10,000. With billions (more likely trillions) of residents in the Republic, how many people would have even ever met a Jedi, especially 20 years after they were all hunted down and killed?

Sablicious
07-05-2009, 10:21 AM
If destroying the Death Star was the means by which Vader intended to usurp command of the Empire he would surely have been going about it the wrong way. ie. The supreme commander, Palps, wasn't even aboard the thing at the time! Thus the argument is rendered moot.

Having said that however, as Yoda alludes to and indeed Palpatine himself muses of his own backstabbing exploits relating to his master in those abominable prequels, the desire to assume control in toto is intrinsic within the nature of the Sith. So it is only reasonable to assume that the ultimate goal of Vader too would in fact have been to wrest power from the Emperor. But doing so via the destruction of the Death Star is illogical IMO.

But then again, 'nuking the fridge (http://www.peoplevsgeorge.com/blog/?m=200905)' is something Lucas is fast-becoming better known for than his very films, so... :rolleyes:

runcible spoon
07-05-2009, 12:07 PM
Well, if we work from the assumption that in IV, Vader wasn't the best-known lieutenant of the Emperor, it makes a lot more sense to grab that spot first, rather than gun for the Emperor right away. If destroying the Death Star in IV was what allowed him to take command of the entire military later, he would then be in a much better position to assume command after the Emperor went down (if it weren't for those meddling kids and their dog Wookie). Anyhow, I find Star Wars is best enjoyed by pretending that Lucas is merely the slightly retarded narrator, and that the characters therein are far more Machiavellian than he.

ExTank
07-05-2009, 12:28 PM
Well, if we work from the assumption that in IV, Vader wasn't the best-known lieutenant of the Emperor, it makes a lot more sense to grab that spot first, rather than gun for the Emperor right away.

Actually, I think he was a very well known henchman/hatchetman of Papa Palpatine, but was viewed as a "has-been," and that the Moffs and Admirals and Generals were the folks running the Imperial show day-to-day for almost two decades.

Vader protected The Empire from the "traitorous Jedi," hunting down their remnants and squashing or suborning any native talent that might arise, securing Papa Palpatine in all his Sithy glory upon the throne. But Vader had immense help, from legions of clone troopers and Order 66, paring the task down to manageable proportions

Tarkin and his ilk (let's call them disgruntled, power-hungry military officers and high-level bureaucrats of the Old Republic) gave the Emperor direct control of the Galaxy. All the industrial and agricultural output of thousands of worlds, administered by his Ministers-Most-Sinister, personified by Tarkin.

Everything we see in the prequels points to Anakin being a good, if limited, "special ops" type. Nothing we see indicates he has any training or talent with organizing entire sectors of planets, fleets and armies, which are necessary to control the Galactic Empire.

And that, ultimatley, makes the Tarkinites, with their Star Destroyers and Death Stars, more important than Vader.

So Vader may not have wanted the Death Star destroyed, but I think he did, for Sithy reasons. He wants to be back in power, he wants Papa Palpatine dloving approval, and he want to kill his mentor and bring order to the Galaxy, as only he can. And to do so, he has to undermine and displace the governors and military leadership in Papa's eyes.

silenus
07-05-2009, 12:40 PM
A little more background on what the Sith (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Noghri) almost were. It also shows a little of what Vader was up to between 3 & 4.

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