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Justin_Bailey
07-29-2009, 08:36 AM
I can't remember who said it, but I've often read that Nazis make the perfect villains. They're easily recognizable and 99.99% of the population views them as the personification of evil.

But World War II ended almost 65 years ago.

And yet, Nazis remain at the forefront of villainy. I just watched The Unborn, a truly terrible horror movie from earlier this year, that featured a ghost drawn to the family of a Holocaust survivor. The heroine's grandmother was liberated in 1944 when she was 9 and spent the entire movie in an old folk's home seeing as she is pushing 85.

For another example slightly opposite that, The Strain by Guillermo Del Toro stars Abraham Setrakian, a Holocaust survivor who was in his late teens when he escaped from a concentration camp. 65 years later he continues his work as a very active vampire slayer lopping off their heads with a sword. The man is nearly 90.

These senior examples show that Nazis can't be used in movies and books forever. But what will happen? Will some new villain rise up to replace them (generic "terrorists" perhaps?)? Will there be more period movies (like Inglorious Basterds) set around World War II so Nazis can play a role? Will something else entirely happen (Commie-Nazis!)?

An Arky
07-29-2009, 08:41 AM
Personally, I hope the Nazis of that era remain the ultimate symbol of villany, for I don't want the world to experience whatever tops them. (I know, there HAS been worse, I'm just sayin'.)

RikWriter
07-29-2009, 08:50 AM
The Nazis are still the go-to villains because frankly, people are deathly afraid of pissing anyone off. There are very few groups you can have members of as villains without getting your book or movie protested and boycotted.

kunilou
07-29-2009, 08:55 AM
If you have "perfect villains" you aren't going to let something insignificant like a normal lifespan interferewith using them in a story.

Zombie Nazis
Vampire Nazis
Time traveling Nazis
Cloned Nazis
Left in suspended animation by one of Hitler's experiments Nazis
Historical reenactment Nazis that get out of hand
They saved Hitler's brain Nazis

I'm sure I've missed some options

Frodo
07-29-2009, 09:23 AM
Werewolf Nazis
Alternative Universe Nazis that cross to our timeline
Vampire Zombie Werewolf Ninja Cyborg Pirate Nazis from outer space?

astorian
07-29-2009, 09:27 AM
Of COURSE Nazis will remain Hollywood's favorite villains. Even though the war ended 64 years ago, we'll still see "Law and Order" pinning murders on 90 year old Germans for a while.

And when elderly Germans are no longer plausible? Nazis will STILL be the villains of choice!

Look at the Hollywood treatment of Tom Clancy's "Sum of All Fears." The villains were supposed to be Arabs. Hollywood turned them into Eastern European neo-Nazis!

Hypno-Toad
07-29-2009, 09:28 AM
Don't forget the Enterprise's run-in with the Nazi Planet.

muldoonthief
07-29-2009, 09:29 AM
WWII was the first war to be fully captured on film. As long as there's a History channel showing documentaries of the Nazis, there'll be new Nazi movies.

And what's not to like? (in the villain sense) - really, really, cool uniforms, unstoppable war machine, and horrible atrocities. A bunch of Middle Easterners with a truck bomb just can't compete.

Sailboat
07-29-2009, 09:46 AM
WWII was the first war to be fully captured on film. As long as there's a History channel showing documentaries of the Nazis, there'll be new Nazi movies.

And what's not to like? (in the villain sense) - really, really, cool uniforms, unstoppable war machine, and horrible atrocities. A bunch of Middle Easterners with a truck bomb just can't compete.

Don't forget the spectacularly overdramatic (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_hVOW2U7K4-M/SZusmE6Vo9I/AAAAAAAA6Ws/Tzr1CFc196Y/s640/ertherthertfg.jpg) and unavoidably gauche architecture (http://blog.miragestudio7.com/wp-content/uploads2/2007/07/albert_speer_dome_domed_hall_hitler_architect2.jpg).

And, of course, the unforgettable dancers (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3297154816/tt0063462).

Wendell Wagner
07-29-2009, 09:47 AM
Justin_Bailey, I know this is going to come across as picky, but there's this thing called arithmetic you should learn something about. You write:

> . . . was liberated in 1944 when she was 9 and spent the entire movie in an old
> folk's home seeing as she is pushing 85.

1944 was 65 years ago. 65 + 9 = 74. She isn't pushing 85.

Then you write:

> . . . a Holocaust survivor who was in his late teens when he escaped from a
> concentration camp. 65 years later he continues his work as a very active
> vampire slayer lopping off their heads with a sword. The man is nearly 90.

So he was at most 19 when he left the concentration camp. 65 + 19 = 84. That is pushing 85, but it's not nearly 90.

SteveG1
07-29-2009, 09:51 AM
The movies will always have Nazis, or "spin offs' of them. After all, what does almost every supervillain want? Total world domination. It's taken directly from the Nazi handbook.

Justin_Bailey
07-29-2009, 09:59 AM
Justin_Bailey, I know this is going to come across as picky, but there's this thing called arithmetic you should learn something about.

While my math was slightly off, the point still stands. Having former Nazis or Holocaust survivors show up in stories set in 2009 and beyond is starting to strain the human lifespan. Especially when one of those characters is battling vampires in hand-to-hand combat.

Also, an exact age was never given for when Setrakian escaped from the concentration camp (he was just called a "young man"). And the novel is actually set in late 2010. So 90 is right.

I just goofed on The Unborn age, sue me.

Jophiel
07-29-2009, 10:06 AM
Certain people on the AM radio have been telling me about the "Islamo-Nazis" so maybe we can use them.

Malthus
07-29-2009, 10:10 AM
It's not just the atrocities: Nazis had evil down to a style. They really dressed the part of storybook villians. Moreover, thet were self-conciously futuristic.

So far, there is no group that comes close to their appeal as the ultimate story villians.

Elendil's Heir
07-29-2009, 10:23 AM
Personally, I hope the Nazis of that era remain the ultimate symbol of villany, for I don't want the world to experience whatever tops them. (I know, there HAS been worse, I'm just sayin'.)

Well said.

The Nazis were stylishly, interestingly, hissably evil and are almost universally recognized. It might be centuries before their entertainment value diminishes, if ever.

Hal Briston
07-29-2009, 10:37 AM
Modern skinhead/white supremacist gangs can work nicely in a pinch.

Johnny Q
07-29-2009, 10:52 AM
Don't forget the spectacularly ] and unavoidably gauche architecture (http://blog.miragestudio7.com/wp-content/uploads2/2007/07/albert_speer_dome_domed_hall_hitler_architect2.jpg).

[/URL].

Is that niche in the dome actually supposed to look like Hitler's face or is it just a trick of the light?

athelas
07-29-2009, 10:57 AM
Yeah, the Nazis just had style. The commies are the only group that could plausibly take their place but they were just scruffier, plus they have more public sympathizers in prominent places.

installLSC
07-29-2009, 11:06 AM
I remember reading a National Review article in 1985 about why the Nazis have remained the standard of evil throughout the atrocity racked 20th century. It pointed out that other groups from Communists to Islamic terrorists have at least cloaked their brutality in some higher religious or philisophical good. The Nazis in contrast were the id released: sheer rage with no real higher purpose (as a historian put it "spitting in the face of the Enlightenment"). It claimed the appeal of Nazi stories is like the appeal of "hero fighting the dragon" stories--it mirrors the struggle we all have between our basest needs and our more civilized nature. I imagine in the future writers looking for this conflict will just imagine revivals of the Nazis because the source material is too strong.

kunilou
07-29-2009, 11:13 AM
While my math was slightly off, the point still stands. Having former Nazis or Holocaust survivors show up in stories set in 2009 and beyond is starting to strain the human lifespan. Especially when one of those characters is battling vampires in hand-to-hand combat.

Right, because IN REAL LIFE everyone knows that only young people fight vampires. I have no problem believing think that a vampire can live forever, drink blood, dissolve in sunlight, become a bat, recoil at the sight of a cross and turn others into vampires, but having an 85-year old engaging in hand-to-hand combat is simply out of the question.:rolleyes:

Sailboat
07-29-2009, 11:25 AM
Is that niche in the dome actually supposed to look like Hitler's face or is it just a trick of the light?

I think it's actually the Nazi eagle (http://iwitnesstohistory.org/ResidentPages/Wenzel/36%20olympics/nazi_eagle.jpg) symbol. Does look a bit like a face though.

Cisco
07-29-2009, 11:40 AM
Personally, I hope the Nazis of that era remain the ultimate symbol of villany, for I don't want the world to experience whatever tops them. (I know, there HAS been worse, I'm just sayin'.)

Hister is gonna come along and make them look like a bunch of pussies.

Justin_Bailey
07-29-2009, 12:11 PM
Right, because IN REAL LIFE everyone knows that only young people fight vampires. I have no problem believing think that a vampire can live forever, drink blood, dissolve in sunlight, become a bat, recoil at the sight of a cross and turn others into vampires, but having an 85-year old engaging in hand-to-hand combat is simply out of the question.:rolleyes:

First question: Are you daft? Second question: Have you read The Strain?

Setrakian is a frail old man who previously had his hands crushed by a vampire and never had them set properly. Yet somehow he is able to take on dozens of bloodsuckers (who are faster, stronger and can see in the dark) while barely breaking a sweat.

It does strain credibility and no amount of yelling "old people are people too!" is not going to change that.

Labrador Deceiver
07-29-2009, 12:20 PM
First question: Are you daft? Second question: Have you read The Strain?

Setrakian is a frail old man who previously had his hands crushed by a vampire and never had them set properly. Yet somehow he is able to take on dozens of bloodsuckers (who are faster, stronger and can see in the dark) while barely breaking a sweat.

It does strain credibility and no amount of yelling "old people are people too!" is not going to change that.

I'm pretty sure you totally missed the point of kunilou's post. I didn't get the impression that s/he was taking up for old people.

MOIDALIZE
07-29-2009, 12:20 PM
I have seen the future (http://www.pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF209-Now_Showing.jpg).

Justin_Bailey
07-29-2009, 12:25 PM
I'm pretty sure you totally missed the point of kunilou's post. I didn't get the impression that s/he was taking up for old people.

How was I supposed to read it?

SteveG1
07-29-2009, 12:26 PM
Setrakian is a frail old man who previously had his hands crushed by a vampire and never had them set properly. Yet somehow he is able to take on dozens of bloodsuckers (who are faster, stronger and can see in the dark) while barely breaking a sweat.

It does strain credibility and no amount of yelling "old people are people too!" is not going to change that.Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill? :D

Labrador Deceiver
07-29-2009, 12:28 PM
How was I supposed to read it?

I think s/he was commenting on the fact that you're willing to suspend disbelief enough that an undead creature who sucks people's blood is a-ok, yet a fighting old man sets you off.

pravnik
07-29-2009, 12:30 PM
"A thousand years will pass and the guilt of Germany will not be erased." - Hans Frank, hanged at Nuremburg.

So we're good for the next 935 years or so.

Justin_Bailey
07-29-2009, 12:31 PM
I think s/he was commenting on the fact that you're willing to suspend disbelief enough that an undead creature who sucks people's blood is a-ok, yet a fighting old man sets you off.

Well why wouldn't I? If the vampire universe is described well enough, you've got a pretty good idea what the vampires are capable of. assuming creatures that more or less have superstrength and superspeed and outnumber the old man 20-1 would easily kill him is not a leap.

Although, I have my doubts Setrakian is a normal man and I wonder what the sequel will add to his backstory.

Hypno-Toad
07-29-2009, 12:48 PM
The Nazis provide a convienant form of evil in so many ways: They were an evil political party as well as an evil government, so they had resources to pull off Big Evil like doomsday weapons.

Being such a large, well-organized entity lets them fit the role of The Secret Evil Corporation. This also provides convienant backstory for Evil Conspiracies, what with real life conspiracies like the ODESSA organization.

They had cult-like qualities with mythic pretensions, so they fit in with supernatural plots.

So it isn't just that they're the standard of evil. It's that they have so many qualities that make for great villains.

The Second Stone
07-29-2009, 01:19 PM
I, for one, predict a Thousand Year Reich of Nazi screen terror. They are the perfect villians and so despicably evil that after the war even the ones put on trial (for the most part) were appalled and shocked at the evil they accomplished.

dracoi
07-29-2009, 02:07 PM
I also think the Nazis have a lot of longevity left in them as movie or story villains. I would look to other historical examples:
- the Muslim world still sees the Crusades (700-900 years ago) as a very present and relevant event.
- the Vikings were a near-universal bad guy until they started to be romanticized 1,000 years after their well-known raids on Europe
- the word "vandal" entered our language because of the Vandal barbarian tribe's wars with Rome. That was 1,500 years ago; we've forgotten the details, but not the word
- Huns are even older than Vandals. We've also forgotten the details, but the word comes back whenever we need to talk about war-mongering Germans

Der Trihs
07-29-2009, 03:02 PM
If you have "perfect villains" you aren't going to let something insignificant like a normal lifespan interferewith using them in a story.

Zombie Nazis
Vampire Nazis
Time traveling Nazis
Cloned Nazis
Left in suspended animation by one of Hitler's experiments Nazis
Historical reenactment Nazis that get out of hand
They saved Hitler's brain Nazis

I'm sure I've missed some options
Nazi sorcerers ( since they were into the occult ). One of Mercedes Lackey's urban fantasies mentioned that a bunch retreated into Underhill and thus survived unaging to the present day.

Descendants of Nazis; one of the major bad guys in Katherine Kurtz's Adept novels was one.

Reincarnations of Nazis; one of the major bad guys in Katherine Kurtz's Adept novels was one.

Students of Nazis; one of Stephen King's bad guys was one.

Demonic/Damned Nazis : Operation : Chaos had the good guys from an alternate universe run into Hitler. They wondered why a Lord of Hell was wearing a good luck symbol like a swastika. One of the Samurai Cat novels had Nazis in Hell, although not played very seriously.

The Nazis provide a convienant form of evil in so many ways: They were an evil political party as well as an evil government, so they had resources to pull off Big Evil like doomsday weapons.

Being such a large, well-organized entity lets them fit the role of The Secret Evil Corporation. This also provides convienant backstory for Evil Conspiracies, what with real life conspiracies like the ODESSA organization.

They had cult-like qualities with mythic pretensions, so they fit in with supernatural plots. They also played the part of being evil, like others have said. They were so openly nasty, without bothering with rhetoric about how they were oppressing you for your own good. And they even dressed evil. I recall a joke :

SS Officer 1: "Hans ?"

SS Officer 2 : "Yes ?"

SS Officer 1: "I just noticed. We are wearing black uniforms, and our hats have skulls on them. Are . . . are we the bad guys?"

JKellyMap
07-29-2009, 03:17 PM
I recently saw some (recently made) movie which sidesteps -- or, rather, postpones -- the problem by being set in the 1960's, when many former Nazis, and their victims, were still plentiful and youngish. I can't recall at the moment what the film was, but I recall thinking how there was no other reason, other than the problem we're discussing, that the film was set in the 1960's.

NDP
07-29-2009, 04:15 PM
If you have "perfect villains" you aren't going to let something insignificant like a normal lifespan interferewith using them in a story.

Zombie Nazis
Vampire Nazis
Time traveling Nazis
Cloned Nazis
Left in suspended animation by one of Hitler's experiments Nazis
Historical reenactment Nazis that get out of hand
They saved Hitler's brain Nazis

I'm sure I've missed some options

Illinois Nazis?

RikWriter
07-29-2009, 04:42 PM
Illinois Nazis?

Surf nazis?

Captain Amazing
07-29-2009, 04:57 PM
They also played the part of being evil, like others have said. They were so openly nasty, without bothering with rhetoric about how they were oppressing you for your own good. And they even dressed evil. I recall a joke :

SS Officer 1: "Hans ?"

SS Officer 2 : "Yes ?"

SS Officer 1: "I just noticed. We are wearing black uniforms, and our hats have skulls on them. Are . . . are we the bad guys?"

That Mitchell and Webb Look (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO5WoLnOOlU).

Jackmannii
07-29-2009, 04:57 PM
If you have "perfect villains" you aren't going to let something insignificant like a normal lifespan interfere with using them in a story.

Zombie NazisHere you go. (http://www.dodsno.no/)

The trailer is great. This picture has all the essential elements - licentious young people (including hot Norwegian babes) out for a good time in the snow, zombie Nazis, chainsaws, and Beethoven.

The Other Waldo Pepper
07-29-2009, 05:07 PM
I recently saw some (recently made) movie which sidesteps -- or, rather, postpones -- the problem by being set in the 1960's, when many former Nazis, and their victims, were still plentiful and youngish. I can't recall at the moment what the film was, but I recall thinking how there was no other reason, other than the problem we're discussing, that the film was set in the 1960's.

Heh. Reminds me of how, in the original '60s-era MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE series, the last hope for Nazi Germany rested with the sons of Hitler's high-ranking officers: four youths, each raised in a separate country but now old enough to meet for the first time and claim all that stolen gold that got hidden away for them in the last days of WWII.

Fast-forward to the '80s, with the new MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE series -- and it's the same plan, but this time for the grandsons of the Third Reich.

No, really.

DocCathode
07-29-2009, 05:13 PM
Surf nazis?

For those who are unaware, search "Surf Nazis Must Die"

Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor
07-29-2009, 05:28 PM
Moon Nazi Flying Saucers.

Or, alternatively, Subterrainean South Pole Nazis.

In flying saucers.

Could Bigfoot be a Nazi? I know Nessie was....

YogSothoth
07-29-2009, 06:58 PM
ss officer 1: "hans ?"

ss officer 2 : "yes ?"

ss officer 1: "i just noticed. We are wearing black uniforms, and our hats have skulls on them. Are . . . Are we the bad guys?"

:D :D

Lamia
07-29-2009, 07:04 PM
Well, there are always Neo Nazis.

I remember reading a National Review article in 1985 about why the Nazis have remained the standard of evil throughout the atrocity racked 20th century. It pointed out that other groups from Communists to Islamic terrorists have at least cloaked their brutality in some higher religious or philisophical good. The Nazis in contrast were the id released: sheer rage with no real higher purpose (as a historian put it "spitting in the face of the Enlightenment"). It claimed the appeal of Nazi stories is like the appeal of "hero fighting the dragon" stories--it mirrors the struggle we all have between our basest needs and our more civilized nature. I imagine in the future writers looking for this conflict will just imagine revivals of the Nazis because the source material is too strong.I have to say, I found it rather disappointing that the villain in the most recent Indiana Jones movie was a Commie rather than a Nazi, pretty much for the reasons you describe. I've heard that an earlier draft of the script had the villains being Nazis who'd fled to South America during/after WWII, and I think that would have been better.

JRDelirious
07-29-2009, 07:04 PM
They were an evil political party as well as an evil government, so they had resources to pull off Big Evil like doomsday weapons.

Being such a large, well-organized entity lets them fit the role of The Secret Evil Corporation. This also provides convienant backstory for Evil Conspiracies, what with real life conspiracies like the ODESSA organization.

They had cult-like qualities with mythic pretensions, so they fit in with supernatural plots.

So it isn't just that they're the standard of evil. It's that they have so many qualities that make for great villains.

And all these traits also create a favorable environment for having plots about continuing Nazi conspiracies, biding their time for their comeback. No need to have the organization be directly led by survivors or direct descendants -- after the first generation of survivors the leadership figures that they can go on with a "corporate" type secret organization of converts and fresh recruits, while looking forward messianistically to the rise of a new Führer. Crypto-neo-nazis will be around for a while as characters.

Elendil's Heir
07-29-2009, 08:02 PM
Surf nazis?

Clockwork-driven body dysmorphic order-addicted zombie Nazis? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kroenen

lissener
07-29-2009, 08:23 PM
I don't think they'll ever go out of style. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=510457)

Green Bean
07-29-2009, 08:25 PM
Crypto-neo-ninja Nazis?

And what about those German accents? I mean, come on now? How evil would someone sound interrogating and torturing Our Hero with a French accent? Yeah, I guess it's possible to have a good French villain, but isn't it so much easier to just use a Nazi?

"Schweinhund! Vee haff vays off making you talk!"

Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor
07-30-2009, 05:02 AM
Tiny, nigh-invisible, winged, flying insects that have embraced German nationalism?

You know?

Gnatzis?

:D

DrFidelius
07-30-2009, 07:59 AM
Or those Fascist micro-organisms that infest your nasal cavities.

Snotzies.

Hypno-Toad
07-30-2009, 08:08 AM
Don't forget the fascist-bondage freaks: knotsies.

enalzi
07-30-2009, 09:27 AM
What about cloned offspring of Henry Winkler and Hitler: Fonzies

Markxxx
07-30-2009, 11:11 AM
Reminds me of the old TV show Gimme A Break.

Nell) Why don't you go to the movies

Chief) I hate movies

Nell) You liked Raiders of The Lost Ark

Chief) Well who wouldn't like a bunch of Nazis getting what's coming to them.

Nazis are way too easy of a target for writers. Let's write about a Granny taking care of a bunch of orphans and using her own money to do it. And let's have the Granny do evil things. It makes for a much better villian

Elendil's Heir
07-30-2009, 11:52 AM
Fascists who suffer from chronic diarrhea: Trotsies.

Carl Corey
07-30-2009, 01:20 PM
Wouldn't that be communists, though?

Der Trihs
07-30-2009, 02:34 PM
From one of Alan Dean Foster's Spellsinger books, there's a Nazi eagle standard that somehow gets transported to the world of magic and animated into life. He tries to set up a Nazi-style Reich of the raptors over all "lesser" species.

NDP
07-30-2009, 02:40 PM
Could Bigfoot be a Nazi?

No way. Anything with even the slightest fascist/Nazi vibe would be a total anathema to his anarcho-primitivist/pacifist ethos.

BrainGlutton
07-30-2009, 02:43 PM
The Third Reich is dead, but, believe it or not, fascism is still alive. (http://www.johnreilly.info/fah.htm) Nowhere in power, but alive as a movement. We should always be wary for its resurgence.

BrainGlutton
07-30-2009, 02:47 PM
Modern skinhead/white supremacist gangs can work nicely in a pinch.

Pffft! Brownshirts! Ignorant thugs to be used to win power and suppressed afterwards! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives)

Intergalactic Gladiator
07-30-2009, 02:52 PM
A clone army created from genetic material found in Hitler's mucous: Snatzies.

BrainGlutton
07-31-2009, 08:08 AM
Leave us not ignore the mass-based right-populist political movement of second-string Happy Days characters: The Potsies! :)

astorian
07-31-2009, 02:28 PM
The Third Reich is dead, but, believe it or not, fascism is still alive. (http://www.johnreilly.info/fah.htm) Nowhere in power, but alive as a movement. We should always be wary for its resurgence.

Yeah, we have to watch out for Sir Roderick Spode and the Brownshorts taking over.

Lust4Life
08-01-2009, 01:47 PM
The fact is the Nazis were snappy dressers.

Yes Stalins mob and Maotze donglers people were totally EVIL but when the representatives of absaloute evil are dressed like your local park bench Meths drinker it lacks a certain "something".

I think that the Nazis as the supreme bad guys will continue right up until the History Channel is consumed by the expanding dying sun and the death of our solar system.

Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor
08-01-2009, 04:56 PM
The fact is the Nazis were snappy dressers.

Yes Stalins mob and Maotze donglers people were totally EVIL but when the representatives of absaloute evil are dressed like your local park bench Meths drinker it lacks a certain "something".

I think that the Nazis as the supreme bad guys will continue right up until the History Channel is consumed by the expanding dying sun and the death of our solar system.
Also, they had the whole "Mad Science" thing down pat.

NinjaChick
08-01-2009, 06:59 PM
Also, they had the whole "Mad Science" thing down pat.
This is so true. No remotely sane person can hear about Mengele and the like and not just feel utter revulsion and fear. The Nazis are still good villains in fiction because they were regrettably good at being bad guys in real life.

I did once learn the hard way that if you're a snotty 14-year-old who resents your parents forcing you to go to Hebrew school, the person to discuss how snappy looking the Nazis were - especially compared to the unavoidable scrappy appearance of the various resistance forces - is not your rabbi. Whose mother survived one of the camps and whose father was in the Polish Resistance and fought in the Warsaw uprising. Regardless of the truth of the initial statement, that's not a conversation that'll end well.

MOIDALIZE
08-01-2009, 07:09 PM
I think that the Nazis as the supreme bad guys will continue right up until the History Channel is consumed by the expanding dying sun and the death of our solar system.

A worse fate has already befallen the History Channel: it's been consumed by theologists, Nostradamus, and Bigfoot.

kunilou
08-01-2009, 09:28 PM
A worse fate has already befallen the History Channel: it's been consumed by theologists, Nostradamus, and Bigfoot.

And a small group of Nazis could take them all without even breaking a sweat!

Siam Sam
08-01-2009, 09:50 PM
You'd think Muslim terrorists could take up the slack, but they always have to spend too much time pointing out how most Muslims are not like that. If they don't, then they find a car bomb parked outside their door the next morning.

On the other hand, I can't remember the last time, if ever, I saw a film that even hinted that not all Germans in the 1930s and 1940s were Nazis.

Elendil's Heir
08-01-2009, 10:16 PM
...On the other hand, I can't remember the last time, if ever, I saw a film that even hinted that not all Germans in the 1930s and 1940s were Nazis.

Try Valkyrie, with Tom Cruise, Bill Nighy, Kenneth Branagh etc. The reviews were mixed, but I thought it was pretty good.

BrainGlutton
08-01-2009, 10:27 PM
On the other hand, I can't remember the last time, if ever, I saw a film that even hinted that not all Germans in the 1930s and 1940s were Nazis.

Try Europa. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(film))

Siam Sam
08-01-2009, 10:45 PM
Try Valkyrie, with Tom Cruise, Bill Nighy, Kenneth Branagh etc. The reviews were mixed, but I thought it was pretty good.

Try Europa. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(film))

Ah yes, I spoke too soon. We even just saw Valkyrie not too long ago. And I do recall now there being a trend around the 1970s to portray sympathetic Nazis, Germans who were maybe drafted and hated the war and Hitler. But still, these are all very few overall, because let's face it: Everyone wants to see evil German Nazis.

rowrrbazzle
08-02-2009, 03:55 PM
I think part of the reason Nazis are still and will continue to be the ultimate evil is that they are being used as a distraction from atrocities that were far worse and just as deliberate, like those of Stalin and Mao, both Communists.

the Muslim world still sees the Crusades (700-900 years ago) as a very present and relevant event. And yet their own prior religious wars (jihad as-sayf), beginning with Muhammad, during which they conquered Spain and other vast regions, are somehow no problem to them or anyone else. Odd.

Lamia
08-02-2009, 04:09 PM
I think part of the reason Nazis are still and will continue to be the ultimate evil is that they are being used as a distraction from atrocities that were far worse and just as deliberate, like those of Stalin and Mao, both Communists.Come on. It's not like there haven't been plenty of movies with Commie villains. You don't see 'em much since the collapse of the USSR (although, as I mentioned before, there was the recent Indiana Jones movie), but it was a common trope throughout the Cold War. See everything from The Manchurian Candidate to Red Dawn.

Siam Sam
08-02-2009, 11:42 PM
Come on. It's not like there haven't been plenty of movies with Commie villains. You don't see 'em much since the collapse of the USSR (although, as I mentioned before, there was the recent Indiana Jones movie), but it was a common trope throughout the Cold War. See everything from The Manchurian Candidate to Red Dawn.

From the Arnold Schwarzenegger film Eraser (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116213/) (1996):

Tony Two Toes: There they are. Commie bastards!
Mikey: They're not communists any more, Tony. They're a federation of independent liberated states.
Tony Two Toes: Don't make me hurt you, Mikey.

The Other Waldo Pepper
08-03-2009, 05:55 AM
I do recall now there being a trend around the 1970s to portray sympathetic Nazis, Germans who were maybe drafted and hated the war and Hitler. But still, these are all very few overall, because let's face it: Everyone wants to see evil German Nazis.

Das Boot was a hell of a flick, though.

ianzin
08-03-2009, 07:01 AM
Are . . . are we the bad guys?" It's actually, "Are we the baddies?"

Much funnier. At least to English ears.

bramma23
08-03-2009, 10:12 AM
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Nazis

Heinous villains.

astorian
08-03-2009, 11:00 AM
Come on. It's not like there haven't been plenty of movies with Commie villains. You don't see 'em much since the collapse of the USSR (although, as I mentioned before, there was the recent Indiana Jones movie), but it was a common trope throughout the Cold War. See everything from The Manchurian Candidate to Red Dawn.

"Everything" is actually pretty slim pickings. Communists were almost NEVER the villains in Hollywood.

Even in the James Bond movies, the Russians were almost never the villains. Oh yes, the Russians were the bad guys in most of Ian Fleming's books, but in the movies, the Russians were replaced by evil international businessmen.

Corporate executives are villains in movies FAR more often than Communists.

Uosdwis R. Dewoh
08-03-2009, 12:30 PM
I recall a joke :

SS Officer 1: "Hans ?"

SS Officer 2 : "Yes ?"

SS Officer 1: "I just noticed. We are wearing black uniforms, and our hats have skulls on them. Are . . . are we the bad guys?"
Are we the baddies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WelGjjGljHc)?

Lamia
08-03-2009, 04:09 PM
"Everything" is actually pretty slim pickings. Communists were almost NEVER the villains in Hollywood.That's not how I remember the 1980s.

Siam Sam
08-03-2009, 10:11 PM
Das Boot was a hell of a flick, though.

As was The Producers. And the TV series Hogan's Heroes! :D

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