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Nobody
11-12-2010, 12:27 AM
Fauxlivia is getting a conscience. I hope and pray there will not be a love triangle between Peter, Oliva, and Fuaxlivia when Oliva gets back to our universe.

That will be horribly cliche and stupid.

Also, I wonder if the Observers are first people mentioned in the book.

Snooooopy
11-12-2010, 02:35 AM
This episode didn't really grab me. I guess it's because it was mostly a setup episode for the big scavenger hunt for doomsday machine pieces. But I did greatly enjoy Walter's admonishment, "If you end up breaking the universe, this time it's on YOUR head!"

Ellis Dee
11-12-2010, 02:44 AM
Fauxlivia is getting a conscience. I hope and pray there will not be a love triangle between Peter, Oliva, and Fuaxlivia when Oliva gets back to our universe.

That will be horribly cliche and stupid.

Also, I wonder if the Observers are first people mentioned in the book.Like your idea about the Observers being the first people.

I am confused about the cliche you speak of. Could you list some other examples of this cliche?

Nobody
11-12-2010, 02:46 AM
I am confused about the cliche you speak of. Could you list some other examples of this cliche?
Really? You're giving me grief because I didn't put the accent mark over the last e?

Ellis Dee
11-12-2010, 02:59 AM
heh, no. My bad for not being clear; pathetic pedantry is an absolutely fair assumption on this board. My question is a sincere one.

Nobody
11-12-2010, 03:04 AM
I just mean love triangles are in a lot of TV shows, movies, books, etc...

In my opinion they're overused.

Mahaloth
11-12-2010, 08:32 AM
There were two Crichtons at one point on Farscape and it created quite a conflict for Aeryn Sun, who loved both of them.

Not quite the same, but similar.

Dallas Jones
11-12-2010, 01:21 PM
Also, I wonder if the Observers are first people mentioned in the book.

You could be right, or the Observers could be the reason that the First People were destroyed, they may be the antagonists of the FP. The Observers may have stopped whatever universe splitting things the First People had in mind. The Observers might have actually scattered and hidden the parts of the machine.

Or the First People idea might be a Red Herring placed there by Walternate, which I tend to believe. If only because the FP present a back story that the series might not wish to maintain.

Cat Whisperer
11-12-2010, 02:51 PM
So, am I understanding this right? The whole using a carrier wave of the number broadcasts to give people amnesia was an elaborate ruse to get the Fringe crew to find all the machine pieces and put them together? Wouldn't there be a simpler way to go about that?

Nobody
11-12-2010, 03:02 PM
And they were being broadcast before Walternate was even born, and before either side knew the other existed. Something doesn't add up. Either the source of the numbers is a third party, and the other side found out about it, cracked the code, and then decided to use the amnesia ray to get our Fringe's attention, or...I don't know.

elfkin477
11-12-2010, 10:59 PM
So, am I understanding this right? The whole using a carrier wave of the number broadcasts to give people amnesia was an elaborate ruse to get the Fringe crew to find all the machine pieces and put them together? I don't get this episode at all. I thought we were working under the assumption that the machine Walternate wanted Peter to destroy stuff with was his creation. If so, how the hell did the pieces end up on our side, and how can they be so old? I guess we're now to assume Walternate didn't invent anything, but merely discovered it? But if that's the case, why does it react to Peter as if it was designed to use him to power it??

My head aches...

And nobody, I don't know what you mean by saying that Fauxlivia is developing a conscience.

Nobody
11-12-2010, 11:06 PM
Oh, I already figured that Walternate didn't create the machine. After all, our Walter also had drawings of the machine as well. If Walternate created it, he wouldn't need Peter to work on it. Remember, when Peter was on the other side Walternate told him that he hadn't figured everything out yet because some fields of science and physics are more advanced on our side.

But as for why it reacts to Peter, good question. The Observers probably have the answers, but it'll be a while before we do.

Ellis Dee
11-12-2010, 11:47 PM
I think the observers have more than answers; I think they built the machine to begin with, designing it specifically for Peter to use.

Nobody
11-12-2010, 11:54 PM
I find usually when a character (or in this case, characters) is/are dropped for a while, it's so you'll forget about them, so when something disastrous is about to happen then he/she/they come in and save the day, kind of like an ex deus machina; "Forgot about me, didn't you."

So seeing how the Watchers haven't been mentioned for a while, they'll probably come back when something big happens. Or they'll cause something big to happen.

Dallas Jones
11-13-2010, 12:26 AM
As a side note, in case you haven't heard about them before, numbers broadcasting shortwave radio stations are a real phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station

Nobody
11-13-2010, 01:00 AM
That's interesting. Take a little truth and dress it up with sci-fi and viola.

Cat Whisperer
11-13-2010, 01:11 AM
As a side note, in case you haven't heard about them before, numbers broadcasting shortwave radio stations are a real phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station
I thought that was ringing a faint bell in my memory.

elfkin, Fauxlivia was talking to Peter about how if it was one universe against the other, you'd have to defend your universe, wouldn't you? in a way that made it sound like she was just doing what she felt she had to do, and she wasn't actually a bad person.

Nobody
11-13-2010, 01:20 AM
And nobody, I don't know what you mean by saying that Fauxlivia is developing a conscience.
Oh, sorry I missed this.

When Fauxlivia was talking to the shape-shifter she said that he should stop wiping people's minds so there wouldn't be more deaths of innocent people. Besides saying the people were innocent, she appeared to feel bad about them. And when the shape-shifter made it clear that he would continue wiping people's minds, she shot him.

Then at the site where they were digging the artifact, she seemed to have doubts about her mission and told Peter that maybe Walter was right, and that he (Peter) should re-think trying to construct the machine.

Onomatopoeia
11-13-2010, 07:54 AM
And they were being broadcast before Walternate was even born, and before either side knew the other existed. Something doesn't add up. Either the source of the numbers is a third party, and the other side found out about it, cracked the code, and then decided to use the amnesia ray to get our Fringe's attention, or...I don't know....or sloppy writing.

Finagle
11-13-2010, 08:27 AM
And they were being broadcast before Walternate was even born, and before either side knew the other existed. Something doesn't add up. Either the source of the numbers is a third party, and the other side found out about it, cracked the code, and then decided to use the amnesia ray to get our Fringe's attention, or...I don't know.

Well, the original machine part that was found in Malden was in a shallow hole in someone's basement. Kind of hard to believe that it was buried for millions of years, was not found when they were building the house, but was accessible by digging a short way. And if it was there for millions of years, believing that it still worked would be a stretch. (I can't remember if we got a good look at the device to determine whether it used familiar technology or not.)


Also ... Astrid knows about the coordinate in Malden. Fauxlivia knows Astrid knows, but doesn't want Peter and Walter to know. This is probably bad news for Astrid.

cmyk
11-13-2010, 09:23 AM
I'm always thinking time-travel in these scenarios. I'm thinking the pieces of the machine were, for whatever reason, sent back in time millions of years ago by the Observers? Or, maybe the Observers have just been around that long.

Also, if the alternate universe has split from our own at some point in the past, perhaps the pieces exist in both universes. If that's the case, then I'm thinking the other side had discovered these parts years ago, and are trying to make heads or tails out of it all. Only now, is our side discovering it. How Peter is linked to it, I have no idea. Perhaps he's the cause of our universes splitting, and the Observers know that. Maybe the machine will repair the damage created by Walter, instead of destroying it.

The pieces must be from a third party. And the only third party we've been introduced to so far has been the Observers (who have been around in human history for centuries or more, and can quote people they interact with as they're saying it).

elfkin477
11-13-2010, 11:22 AM
Also, if the alternate universe has split from our own at some point in the past, perhaps the pieces exist in both universes. If that's the case, then I'm thinking the other side had discovered these parts years ago, and are trying to make heads or tails out of it all. Only now, is our side discovering it. How Peter is linked to it, I have no idea. Perhaps he's the cause of our universes splitting, and the Observers know that. Maybe the machine will repair the damage created by Walter, instead of destroying it. I've been thinking more about Peter, and the watcher letting Walter save him when he was small. Doesn't the watcher do it because Peter is supposed to be important? Back last season I thought it was because the machine was designed around him, but what if it's not that, but that he is one of those "fortold to hold this destiny" sort of characters that the watchers were simply waiting to be born? I'm not a fan of the whole chosen one who has been prophesied cliche, but I guess it makes at least as much sense that the machine has been waiting for the right person to come along and power it as it would having a machine designed to be powered someone specific.

Cat Whisperer
11-13-2010, 11:32 AM
Oh, sorry I missed this.

When Fauxlivia was talking to the shape-shifter she said that he should stop wiping people's minds so there wouldn't be more deaths of innocent people. Besides saying the people were innocent, she appeared to feel bad about them. And when the shape-shifter made it clear that he would continue wiping people's minds, she shot him.

Then at the site where they were digging the artifact, she seemed to have doubts about her mission and told Peter that maybe Walter was right, and that he (Peter) should re-think trying to construct the machine.
And that, too. :)

I think Fauxlivia tipped her hand with Nina Sharp, too - she's far too, well, sharp to let a discrepancy like Fauxlivia not feeling comfortable talking directly to Walter go by. I also thought it was interesting that Fauxlivia assumed Astrid's code-breaking abilities from the other universe, and she came up with them in this one, too.

Tangent
11-13-2010, 12:11 PM
As a side note, in case you haven't heard about them before, numbers broadcasting shortwave radio stations are a real phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station

Yeah, I remembered them as a plot device in an episode of Covert Affairs this summer.

Nobody
11-13-2010, 12:45 PM
I think Fauxlivia tipped her hand with Nina Sharp, too - she's far too, well, sharp to let a discrepancy like Fauxlivia not feeling comfortable talking directly to Walter go by.
The look on Nina's face made me think she'd talk to Walter or Peter about Oliva not seeming normal, but instead she just goes ahead and convinces Walter to let Peter work on the machine.

So either she has her suspicions and is holding back, or else she's just shrugging them off just like Peter is.

Cat Whisperer
11-13-2010, 12:51 PM
I think she's holding them back - she knows far more than she ever tells.

Nobody
11-13-2010, 12:52 PM
Good point.

Snooooopy
11-16-2010, 01:33 AM
Anna Torv was a guest on The Tonight Show tonight. I thought I'd mention it because she happened to use "Fauxlivia" to refer to the parallel-world version of her character. Not an official seal of approval, but it did indicate that it seemed to have come out on top in the battle of the competing names. (I always thought it was the best one of the lot.) Also, her Australian accent is surprisingly not that strong. And, damn, she looked hot.

Onomatopoeia
11-16-2010, 07:21 AM
Anna Torv was a guest on The Tonight Show tonight. I thought I'd mention it because she happened to use "Fauxlivia" to refer to the parallel-world version of her character. Not an official seal of approval, but it did indicate that it seemed to have come out on top in the battle of the competing names. (I always thought it was the best one of the lot.) Also, her Australian accent is surprisingly not that strong. And, damn, she looked hot.Wow. I had no idea she was Australian.

Unauthorized Cinnamon
11-16-2010, 08:02 AM
She's actually Rupert Murdoch's step-niece!

Anyway - hello everyone! We've been feverishly catching up on Fringe, and we've finally arrived at the current episode.

How about this idea? The First People (possibly the Observers*) built The Vacuum, but it caused a giant accident that split a single universe in two. The accident also caused pieces of the machine to be scattered between the two universes. There may be a multiverse aside from these two, but the red and blue 'verses are not naturally occurring, and since they started out as one, that's why people can travel between them, and why the barrier is degrading, endangering redverse. The Vacuum can only be used by someone who is from both halves of the universe. Peter is the only person who's spent years in each universe, and maintained molecular stability (or whatever phlebotinum they said prevents him kersploding like Bell did). Therefore, Peter is the only person who can operate The Vacuum.

Does it destroy one universe, meld them together keeping elements of each, or possible fully realize each 'verse as a separate, stable entity? I think the answer depends on how much lead time the writers have before the show is eventually cancelled.

*who I can't help but picture like this (http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:9CtPUW8606YG5M:http://www.castleforrester.com/mst3k/resources/observers.jpg&t=1)

Onomatopoeia
11-16-2010, 11:59 AM
She's actually Rupert Murdoch's step-niece!Yuck. Next thing you'll tell me is she smokes so every positive thought I've ever thought of her can be chucked out the window.

Barkis is Willin'
11-16-2010, 12:13 PM
As a side note, in case you haven't heard about them before, numbers broadcasting shortwave radio stations are a real phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station

Not only are they real, here's the Straight Dope...

LINK (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/800/who-operates-those-weird-numbers-stations-on-shortwave-radio)

elfkin477
11-22-2010, 09:17 PM
Let's not comment about it in this thread to keep from spoiling people who've only seen up through the 11th, but is there a thread for last week's episode? I can't find one.

Nobody
11-22-2010, 09:22 PM
I didn't start one, and I don't think anyone else did either.

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