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View Full Version : ST: Deep Space Nine, Best and worst episodes


FordTaurusSHO94
11-16-2010, 12:21 AM
The Voyager thread is still going, so why not keep the theme going.

I'm watching through the series in order for the first time and just finished In the Pale Moonlight. It took awhile for that one to sink in. It's the only time Star Trek has had me in bed later thinking about what happened. It felt similar to what was going through my head when I walked out of the theater after seeing No Country for Old Men. I have a feeling Sisko just changed his life with that series of decisions that lead him down a path he wasn't ready to go down.

aceplace57
11-16-2010, 01:29 AM
There were so many different story lines in Ds9. It's hard to remember them. O'Brian was my favorite character. I liked any story that focused on him. His back story as a former soldier fighting Cardassians gave him a lot of depth. That back story started on a great episode of TNG. They really explored it throughout Ds9. O'Brien switched from Infantry to Engineering to get away from the violence, but he got dragged back into fighting sometimes.

An early O'Brien episode is when he is arrested in a shuttle for smuggling Arms. He has to face a Cardassian court. One of the better early season episodes.

DWMarch
11-16-2010, 02:12 AM
My favorite is "Tacking into the Wind". Kira is leading a Cardassian resistance cell in a mission to steal a Jem'Hadar ship while Worf is having a sword duel with Chancellor "I decide what can and cannot be done" Gowron. I especially liked when Damar finds out that his family has been killed. He laments "What kind of people would give those orders?" Kira, not missing a beat and with just the right amount of snark replies "Yeah, Damar... what kind of people would give those orders?" Garak has several moments of awesome as well, particularly when Rusot is menacing Kira and trying to convince Damar to betray her as well. Garak puts a phaser to Rusot's neck to remind him "I'm still here!"

Worst episode is hard to pick but I hated the (Jadzia) Dax drama episodes and Ferengi family hijinks. The baseball episode in Season 7 was pretty sucky too.

Darkhold
11-16-2010, 02:19 AM
In the Pale Moonlight definitely a great episode.

Worst: Any Ferangi episode though Profit and Lace stands out as by far the worst. Considering how sexist Quark is supposed to be the notion of him undergoing a sex change in order to help women be equal on his home planet is not only horrible but unbelievable. The Ferangi in DS:9 really were annoying. In the first few episodes they really seemed to be darker and more aggressive then the bumbling fools of Next Gen but very quickly they were more and more humanized and also got a few episodes where we're told their culture is just as valid as ours?!?!? I always hate that. It takes great writing to make a truly alien culture that makes sense and shares different values so is just as good but only different. It's lazy sloppy writing to make a horrible alien culture but declare it equally valid just by pointing out a few flaws in human culture.

tingbudong
11-16-2010, 02:38 AM
Another vote for Pale Moonlight...

Liked the Section 31 episodes and anything with a giant fleet battle. Star Trek space violence done right. DS9 benefited considerably from the switch to CGI. However, they still made liberal use of shitty, fake-ass off-world sets...but I think they shot on location when they could.

One thing that DS9 did very well (the other series, not so well) was their use of a strong, diverse and developed reoccurring character cast.

kombatminipig
11-16-2010, 08:06 AM
The Visitor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Visitor_(Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine)) had me crying like a baby when I saw it.

Fried Dough Ho
11-16-2010, 08:29 AM
Trials and Tribbles


/end thread

silenus
11-16-2010, 09:32 AM
Trials and Tribble-ations, you mean. ;)

Good - the Mirror Universe episodes

Bad - the Ferengi episodes

I never watched DS9 much, because I can't stand Avery Brooks.

Captain Amazing
11-16-2010, 09:40 AM
In the Pale Moonlight was an episode I liked. So were "Treachery, Faith, and the Great River", and "Far Beyond the Stars". Episodes I didn't? Most of the Ferengi episodes, "Let He Who is Without Sin", and I didn't really like the Mirror Universe episodes.

ReticulatingSplines
11-16-2010, 09:50 AM
Most of my favorites have already been named, but I'll add Duet and most episodes with Weyoun. Love that guy!

I think the Ferengi episodes were hit-or-miss, there were some okay ones and some downright putrid ones. The Magnificent Ferengi was one of the latter.

Simplicio
11-16-2010, 10:03 AM
I liked the Ferengi Episodes, but hated the mirror universe. Each their own, I guess.

Who Morns for Morn was a good one that hasn't been mentioned. One of the best parts of DS9 was how they developed backstories for every character. Even Morn, who for most of the series was basically an extra in the background, got his own story.

I also liked the episode where Jake and Sisko build an ancient Bajoran ship, just because sailing around in an interstellar sailboat was pretty cool.

I rewatched the series a few years ago, and most of the worst episodes were bad simply because they were really forgettable. Especially in the first two seasons, there were a few episodes where almost nothing happens. There's some minor conflict or sci-fi gimmick, they tread water for 40 minutes with some character drama and then the crew solves it in the obvious way or it just takes care of itself.

Mr. Excellent
11-16-2010, 10:07 AM
I didn't really like the Mirror Universe episodes.

You've some gripe with the Intendant? That seems ... unhealthy.

I think it's telling that I really need to reach to think of bad DS-9 episodes (basically, all the Ferengi episodes). This series has ambition, and moral ambiguity, and it showed. I even thought the first season was pretty darned good - as a political science nerd, the way they examined the aftermath of empire and decolonization was pretty darned interesting. And "Duet" was great, though I thought the ending a little weak.

Mr. Excellent
11-16-2010, 10:13 AM
I also liked the episode where Jake and Sisko build an ancient Bajoran ship, just because sailing around in an interstellar sailboat was pretty cool.

The difficulty was that it had Jake. Over the course of the show, Avery Brooks learned to act. I'm not convinced the kid who played Jake ever did. The only reason he isn't viewed with as much animosity as Wesley, I suspect, is that the writers recognized that the actor was weak, and didn't put him front-and-center nearly as much as Wesley.

ReticulatingSplines
11-16-2010, 10:21 AM
Who Morns for Morn was a good one that hasn't been mentioned. One of the best parts of DS9 was how they developed backstories for every character. Even Morn, who for most of the series was basically an extra in the background, got his own story.


And who would have guessed Morn's wife was so hot? Mmm.

ETA: Not really his wife, I know.

Simplicio
11-16-2010, 10:22 AM
The difficulty was that it had Jake. Over the course of the show, Avery Brooks learned to act. I'm not convinced the kid who played Jake ever did. The only reason he isn't viewed with as much animosity as Wesley, I suspect, is that the writers recognized that the actor was weak, and didn't put him front-and-center nearly as much as Wesley.

I think people hated Wesley more for the stupid "boy-wonder" plots the writers gave him then his acting (even if you think Weaton was a bad actor, he was hardly the only one in that series). The DS9 writers were pretty careful not to make the same mistake with Jake.

I actually thought the acting was pretty good all around, especially for a sci-fi show, which almost always suffer in that regard. Some were better then others, but even Jake I didn't find distractingly bad.

Simplicio
11-16-2010, 10:23 AM
And who would have guessed Morn's wife was so hot? Mmm.

I knew, but thats just because the guy won't shut up about her, or anything else for that matter.

FordTaurusSHO94
11-16-2010, 10:35 AM
House of Quark was a Ferengi episode I liked. I've heard Profit and Lace is terrible, but I haven't made it that far yet. I haven't come across any episode that I've hated yet, but there were some boring ones. Most of those were in Season 1 or 2. Ever since The Dominion, Defiant, and the Klingons have shown up, it's mostly been great. I remember trying to get into this show in the first season or 2 and then giving up when TNG went off the air. I should have stuck with it!

Tanbarkie
11-16-2010, 01:12 PM
"In the Pale Moonlight" is one of my favorite episodes of any show. Plus, it (along with "Far Beyond the Stars," another DS9 highlight) spawned one of the more mesmerizing internet memes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lHgbbM9pu4) out there.

Any episode focused on Garak is gold. This goes double for those that dealt with his relationship with Enabran Tain ("The Wire," "The Die is Cast," etc). Robinson's performance in "In a Pale Moonlight" almost (almost!) outshines Brooks's.

Love "The Visitor." Sisko's relationship with his son gets more development in this one episode than any character relationship got in the entirety of TNG or Voyager. It's one of the two episodes of any show I've ever seen that has made me cry ("The Body" from Buffy the Vampire Slayer being the other).

I always really enjoyed the relationship between O'Brien and Bashir as well. Bashir, especially, surprised me as a character that I initially expected to hate ("oh God, another brash, overconfident young asshole") but quickly grew to love for his enthusiasm, moral compass, curiosity, and always-hilarious ability to put his foot in his mouth.

And of course, Kira and Odo are just wonderful, wonderful characters, and there are numerous brilliant episodes focused on their complex relationships with their respective home cultures. DS9 always shone brightest when it dealt with the political and social upheavals happening on Bajor (and, by extension, Cardassia and among the Founders), and these two characters were always in the thick of it. Brilliant acting from Visitor and Auberjonois helped, of course.

I must admit, though, that I never really bought the romance between Kira and Odo - they had far more chemistry as the closest platonic friends on the show, IMO.

armedmonkey
11-16-2010, 01:16 PM
Bad - the Ferengi episodesAmen, on that one, with the most infamous being Profit and lace, which was a big bag Of "ewwwww".

It starts off with Quark telling telling one of his employees that she'll be fired if she doesn't sleep with him. Charming. But his brother comes in and tells him that Mom's coming with the Nagus. Ma shows up and quark says something like "What are you doing, Ma! You're supposed to be naked". Damnit TV show, you made me sit through interspecies sexual harrasment; you are NOT going to show me alien old woman nudity. I don't WANT to know where the waddles are on a Ferengi.

Anyway, it turns out that this whole thing is some weird Trek allegory on the equal rights amendment. Timely as ever. It seems that Ferengi women can't wear clothes in public or participate in any business transaction. This is followed by much leering at Quark's brother's wife (stop it, TV show! just stop it!)

The plot settles down from here and we learn that if Mom can prove her business sense to a bunch of other Ferengi, then all Ferengi women can start wearing clothes and buying stuff. Oh, they'll get to vote too, I think. The plan doesn't work when Mom falls over dead in Quarks quarters. This is unfortunately played for comedy. Dead old women are funny. But the plan must go on, for some reason, so.... and this hurts me to type..

...they put Quark in drag. But it get's worse..... after a few jokes about hormones it is revealed that Quark underwent a sex change (Damnit, TV show! I'm warning you right now!).

OK. Quark goes to the meeting, where he/she is sexually harassed, which is played for laughs. I don't know if this is supposed to be a reference to the beginning of the episode or not as at this point I'm searching for my Ryobi so I can drill a hole in my head and bathe my brain in bleach. Later on there's a scene where some old Ferengi lecher chases transgendered Quark around a table saying stuff like "my lobes burn for you!" Then Quark kisses the guy. I'm not sure if this is some kind of milestone in Trek history because it shows a transgendered dude kissing another dude, bu Aw fuck it, I don't want to even think about it anymore. This episode almost gave me an aneurism.

It ends with women's lib, a now male Quark getting in touch with his feminine side, more Trek "humor", and a monkey twitching on his floor next to a cordless drill and a bottle of bleach.

Mr. Excellent
11-16-2010, 02:34 PM
I must admit, though, that I never really bought the romance between Kira and Odo - they had far more chemistry as the closest platonic friends on the show, IMO.

Especially since, while one could see Kira being attracted to Odo - at least the fellow looks Bajoran-ish - there's really no reason at all for Odo to be attracted to anything Bajoran-shaped. Or anything at all, for that matter - do the changelings even reproduce sexually?

But the tense, thoughtful conversations between them during the Cardassian occupation of the station more than made up for it - I bought them as close friends trying to figure out just what the hell they were going to do in an impossible situation.

MJinks
11-16-2010, 02:49 PM
I hated any episode that featured Kai Winn.

I only watched DS9 when I caught it on TV, which wasn't often. I enjoyed most episodes I watched but didn't really get the chance to follow the long story arcs.

Perhaps I should add DS9 to my LoveFilm queue...

Tanbarkie
11-16-2010, 02:59 PM
I hated any episode that featured Kai Winn.

I only watched DS9 when I caught it on TV, which wasn't often. I enjoyed most episodes I watched but didn't really get the chance to follow the long story arcs.

Perhaps I should add DS9 to my LoveFilm queue...

I loved Kai Winn up until Season 7. Same with Gul Dukat. These are not by coincidence.

aceplace57
11-16-2010, 03:37 PM
One of the best Odo moments was in an episode where he was held captive with another person. I think it was Kira?? It grew past the time for him to relax and release his shape. Odo is very proud and wants to be respected. Finally he can't hold shape any longer and turns into a puddle in this persons lap.

It was very well done and touching. Reveled a lot about Odo and his need for respect. He never forgot the humiliation of being a lab specimen.

Darkhold
11-16-2010, 03:52 PM
One of the best Odo moments was in an episode where he was held captive with another person.It was Lwaxana Troi and they were trapped in an elevator.

Kolga
11-16-2010, 04:08 PM
One of the best Odo moments was in an episode where he was held captive with another person. I think it was Kira?? It grew past the time for him to relax and release his shape. Odo is very proud and wants to be respected. Finally he can't hold shape any longer and turns into a puddle in this persons lap.

It was very well done and touching. Reveled a lot about Odo and his need for respect. He never forgot the humiliation of being a lab specimen.

I think it also revealed a lot about Lwaxana Troi's character, too, who was portrayed as a raging harridan most of the time.

aceplace57
11-16-2010, 04:20 PM
Oh, Lwaxana Troi thanks. It's been awhile since I saw it. It was really good.

Palmer Eldritch
11-16-2010, 05:35 PM
One of my favorite shows.

The first two seasons are weak (although not as weak as TNG or Babylon 5's first seasons) but there are some good things. Season 3 picked up quite a bit, although it's still uneven. It would almost be easier to list the episodes from S4, 5, and 6 that aren't really good. S7 was mostly pretty bad, but the season-long arc was action-packed enough that you could ignore some the bad stuff (like Dukat's wild transformation, Ezri, and the literalization of the Prophets).

S1: "Duet," "In the Hands of the Prophets"
S2: "Necessary Evil," "The Wire,"
S3: "Heart of Stone," "Improbable Cause," "The Die is Cast"
S4: "The Visitor" (easily the best of the whole show) "Little Green Men" (best Ferengi comic relief show) "Our Man Bashir," "Homefront," "Paradise Lost"
S5: "The Ship," "Trials and Tribble-ations," "For the Uniform," "Call to Arms"
S6: "Waltz," "Far Beyond the Stars," "In the Pale Moonlight"
S7: "The Siege of AR-558," "It's Only a Paper Moon,"

tingbudong
11-16-2010, 05:51 PM
DS9 also relied less on techno-babble solutions to problems. Not saying they didn't like to reroute power through the main deflectors to increase the yield of their tachyon pulse...they just did it less than TNG...and significantly less that VOY.

Bashir always seemed to be brewing up some medical marvels...but at least he had a backstory that offered some credibility toward his apparent genius.

I second previous comments regarding Jake. The writers clearly knew what he was good for and kept his stories and importance on a short leash. They came close with Nog though...I thought they begin to push that character a bit too far near the end of the series.

PookahMacPhellimey
11-16-2010, 05:51 PM
I loved Duet. I'm kind of kinky, and sort of have a thing for Gul Dukat, pre him going batshit insane. I loved it when he was bad, with a tiny bit of goodness in there.

For similar reasons, I also like any Garak episode.

Even if most people loved the Dominion War stuff, that's when I kind of lost interest. The show lost all the lovely nuances and grey shades and just reverted to goodies vs baddies complete with Evil Red Glowing Eyes. *yawn*

Oh, and of course any Ferengi ep is automatic fail.

Bryan Ekers
11-16-2010, 05:58 PM
What's the one where they put everything on hold to save their holographic buddy Vic?

Simplicio
11-16-2010, 06:25 PM
I second previous comments regarding Jake. The writers clearly knew what he was good for and kept his stories and importance on a short leash. They came close with Nog though...I thought they begin to push that character a bit too far near the end of the series.

I actually thought Rom (Nog's father) was the worst offender in the 'unexplained genius' category. Nog went to the academy, and even after that, wasn't that overly brilliant, at least by Star Trek standards. Rom goes from being an over-worked waiter at a bar to number-two engineering guy without any training.

But that aside, agree that DS9 was still far less obnoxious with that kind of thing then any of the other Treks.

2ply
11-16-2010, 06:49 PM
What was the deal with suddenly getting a bunch of fans of lounge music on the writing staff?

My best DS9 would be "In the Pale Moonlight"

My worst would be the baseball episode where they played the Vulcans. I know Vulcans have this feeling of superiority when it comes to humans, but they are normally not such dicks about it.

The first two Ferengi episodes with the Grand Nagus weren't so bad. "The Nagus" was okay, even if Rom trying to kill Quark was wildly outside of what his character would be after season 1. "Rules of Acquisition" where Quark tried to open up a trade deal with the Dominion with the help of the female Ferengi who was posing as make was pretty good too.

Tanbarkie
11-16-2010, 07:03 PM
My worst would be the baseball episode where they played the Vulcans. I know Vulcans have this feeling of superiority when it comes to humans, but they are normally not such dicks about it.

Clearly you haven't seen "Enterprise" (although that is probably for the best).

aceplace57
11-16-2010, 07:07 PM
I liked the episode where Odo and Kira find the planet where the Founders live. Odo meets his people and discovers they are the oppressors and enslavers of that part of space.

bluecanary
11-16-2010, 07:23 PM
Best:
Looks like I'm one of the crowd on this one - 'In The Pale Moonlight' is my favourite episode of DS9. Runners up include the episode immediately preceding it, 'The Inquisition', 'Duet', 'The Wire' and 'The Assignment'. DS9 certainly had better characters than Voyager (with a couple of exceptions) and on the whole did serious episodes much better than that show or TNG.

Worst:
As with Voyager some of the worst episodes of DS9 were set on the holodeck (or holosuites). The Vic Fontaine episodes such as 'His Way' were awful. I like Quark, but some of the Ferengi episodes were crap, particularly (not sure why) in the later seasons. But the worst trait of DS9 was that some episodes were just downright dull. 'Meridian', 'Melora', 'The Muse', and my pick for most tedious Trek episode ever (featuring my two least favourite DS9 characters, Ezri Dax and Worf), 'Afterimage' from series 7.

kasuo
11-16-2010, 07:28 PM
Clearly you haven't seen "Enterprise" (although that is probably for the best).

Ah yes, all that panda. Good times.

I'll echo what a lot of people have been saying about liking "In the Pale Moonlight" and "Far Beyond the Stars", though I was hoping the follow-up episode to FBtS would've been better but it was just kind of dull with Sisko being in the insane asylum.

Kamino Neko
11-16-2010, 07:35 PM
I loved Kai Winn up until Season 7.

I didn't. Winn was freaking intolerable until her face heel turn...or heel worse heel turn, I guess. Just so smarmy and utterly false.

As such, almost any episode dealing with the Bajoran religion before that and after the death of Opaka (who I was fairly fond of) is on my list of worst. The ones that dealt with only the Orbs and didn't get into the politics were fine, but for the most part, there was way too much of Kai Winn's railing against Sisko or politicking against Bareil or other Vedeks...or the Provisional Government...or Starfleet...or....

So...yeah...Winn ruined a lot of episodes for me.

aceplace57
11-16-2010, 08:06 PM
I always wondered if the Peace with the Dominion would have held. There were a lot of planets in the Dominion besides the Founders. Plus The Jem'Hadar were still around. I'm not sure making peace with the Founders was enough to remove the threat.

It's similar to the Shadow war on Babylon 5. After the Shadows left there was another season dealing with other bad guys that supported & worked with the Shadows.

Kamino Neko
11-16-2010, 08:31 PM
That's a lot like asking if making peace with Washington would end a war with the US, because there are other states, and the US army is still out there. The Dominion is an oligarchy, and the Vorta and Jem'Hadar are both genetically engineered to prevent any change to that.

Some of the Dominion's Alpha and Beta quadrant allies could still be a threat, but the Cardassians were defeated (partially because a significant portion had turned against the Dominion), so that basically leaves the Breen as the only real threat, IIRC. And if they continued their belligerence, they'd be standing against the three major powers in the region - the Federation, and Klingon and Romulan empires - so even they're not a major threat.

gonzoron
11-16-2010, 09:39 PM
S1: "Duet," "In the Hands of the Prophets"
S2: "Necessary Evil," "The Wire,"
S3: "Heart of Stone," "Improbable Cause," "The Die is Cast"
S4: "The Visitor" (easily the best of the whole show) "Little Green Men" (best Ferengi comic relief show) "Our Man Bashir," "Homefront," "Paradise Lost"
S5: "The Ship," "Trials and Tribble-ations," "For the Uniform," "Call to Arms"
S6: "Waltz," "Far Beyond the Stars," "In the Pale Moonlight"
S7: "The Siege of AR-558," "It's Only a Paper Moon,"

This list right here could've been written by me. Man, I love this show... I even liked Ezri, and Dukat and Winn in the last season, and Odo and Kira's romance... And Jake, and Nog, and Rom...


But even I can't sit through some of the Ferengi episodes.... ugh. If I hear the word Moogie, I'm out...

All time fave: Necessary Evil (with Pale Moonlight a close 2nd)
Worst non-ferengi episode: Sanctuary, or Melora. or maybe that on Risa with Vanessa Williams. or anything with Vic other than Paper Moon.

Tanbarkie
11-16-2010, 10:15 PM
I didn't. Winn was freaking intolerable until her face heel turn...or heel worse heel turn, I guess. Just so smarmy and utterly false.


Heh. That's exactly why I enjoyed her so much. She's a fascinating study in self-interest. I mean, I'm sure I would hate her if I knew her in real life, but as a character in a TV show, she was endlessly compelling to watch. I liken her to the character of Gaius Baltar from BSG - self-serving skinks with charisma to spare, who parlay that charisma into power. And though they occasionally lean towards doing the right thing, they always, always end up looking out for themselves, first and foremost.

Tim R. Mortiss
11-16-2010, 10:22 PM
DS9 is my all-time favorite Trek (and I'm one who used to watch TOS during its original run). Two episodes that always stick with me haven't been mentioned yet (unless they were mentioned by title without description; I don't remember the titles):

- The one with O'Brien where he is sentenced to (something like) thirty years in prison.... but it is performed surgically, and only happens in his mind. In real life, something like an hour passes, but he has to live through the entire sentence. And then, has to go back to his real life, remembering it.

- The one where O'Brien's daughter is lost in some time-portal, and they don't get her back until she has aged something like ten years, and gone totally feral. I'll never forget the look of horror and regret in O'Brien's face at what he let happen to his daughter.

Yeah, I guess Chief O'Brien is one of my favorite characters. His wife, not so much. That bitch I would beam into the core of a star!

Kamino Neko
11-16-2010, 10:41 PM
I mean, I'm sure I would hate her if I knew her in real life, but as a character in a TV show, she was endlessly compelling to watch.

I see your point.

I just don't really find characters to whom my primary reaction is 'I want to slap them' particularly interesting villains. And all the politicking that amounted to small potatoes, even for 99% of the other characters involved was wearing.

I think a more accurate explanation for why I disliked her as a character, which allowed why I disliked her as a person ('smarmy and utterly false') to come to the fore, is captured in that last sentence - she was very very small, in among things that were rather big.

I'm not talking, necessarily, inherently big things, like Sisko's cosmic issues, or the various wars. Just plots of consequence to anyone but Winn Adami.

She was mostly nothing but a minor annoyance to the characters I cared about (Sisko or Bareil, particularly)...not a big enough issue to really care how things fell out (save for the episode where she became Kai by threatening to ruin Bareil's reputation), but just there, taking up space that could have been spent on something else.

gonzoron
11-16-2010, 11:41 PM
Yeah, I guess Chief O'Brien is one of my favorite characters.The thing I loved, in a meta- sort of way, was how O'Brien was the writers' punching bag. In addition to the ones you mentioned, (Hard Time and Time's Orphan), there was Whispers, where he returns to the station to find everyone turned against him. And Visionary, where he dies and is replaced by himself from the near future. And Tribunal, where the Cardassians torture and try him for a crime he didn't commit. And The Assignment, where his wife is possessed by a Pagh Wraith....

Dude just couldn't catch a break. :)

antonio107
11-16-2010, 11:43 PM
In the Pale Moonlight. Definitely my favorite, hands down. I'm also fond of the baseball episode, "In the Cards," any of the Ferengi episodes...

Aw heck, I like them all, really. I could list a bunch of my favorites. The only ones I didn't much care for were the ones about the prophets. You can rearrange the whole universe so that Ben Sisko's parents meet and have sex, but you can't understand how linear time works?

Morons.

Osiris the 1st
11-17-2010, 11:05 AM
The baseball episode in Season 7 was pretty sucky too.

The baseball episode was one of my favorites; I thought that it was a good way to bring in some comic relief and break the tension between one very serious storyline and the next.

If a show has constantly building unrelenting tension I find that I get so exhausted watching it that I lose interest/hope all the main characters die just to get some closure. (See Heroes)

Elendil's Heir
11-17-2010, 11:05 AM
"In the Pale Moonlight" is very, very good. To win a war, sometimes you have to do nasty things.

"The Visitor" is a very well-crafted tearjerker. Loved it.

"Trials and Tribble-ations" is a lot of fun. A nice touch to have the Temporal Police (or whatever it was) agent immediately know what day of the week something happened a century before. The DS9 crew was seamlessly inserted into the TOS episode - well done. And I liked Worf gruffly refusing to explain why the TOS Klingons looked different from him.

I don't remember all of the episode names, but I also liked the episode with the DS9 staff playing baseball with the Vulcans (esp. hearing the Federation anthem after all these years!); the one where Kira befriends an elderly Cardassian man who's wracked by guilt for what happened during the Occuptation; and the one where Garak is going through withdrawal from his implant. The one where Garak is torturing Odo and Odo can't revert to his liquid form, getting more and more tattered, was very powerful. Oh, and the one where the DS9 folks are all writers and production staff for a Fifties sf magazine. And the one set years before in which Odo, under Gul Dukat's watchful eye, investigates a murder on the station and comes to suspect refugee Kira. The series finale was almost perfect - a great end to the series (although if I were directing, the last shot would've been Morn saying "Goodbye," his first and only word after all those years).

Good stuff. Episode for episode, one of the very best Treks.

friedo
11-17-2010, 11:25 AM
For your consideration: A good Ferengi episode. Yes, it exists! Little Green Men - the one where Quark, Rom and Nog end up in 1940s New Mexico.

Elendil's Heir
11-17-2010, 11:30 AM
Meh. A few laughs, but overall I didn't like it.

Mr. Excellent
11-17-2010, 12:01 PM
I loved Kai Winn up until Season 7. Same with Gul Dukat. These are not by coincidence.

Right - both were great so long as they remained deeply flawed but nuanced characters, and lost a lot of appeal once they became straight-up villains.

Mama Zappa
11-17-2010, 12:04 PM
... I can't stand Avery Brooks.
:confused:
I understand each individual word.

I do not understand what they mean when put together in that order.

Hell, if Avery Brooks as Captain Sisko read the telephone directory in "that" voice you'd better believe I'd start dialing every number he read...

Mr. Excellent
11-17-2010, 12:23 PM
:confused:
I understand each individual word.

I do not understand what they mean when put together in that order.

Hell, if Avery Brooks as Captain Sisko read the telephone directory in "that" voice you'd better believe I'd start dialing every number he read...

The problem is that, especially in the first season Avery Brooks tended to read his lines very much as if he were reading the telephone directory.

friedo
11-17-2010, 12:45 PM
He does have an annoying tendency to unnaturally pause between words that begin and end with the same consonant. Listen to him say "weapons (lengthy pause) stations!" for example.

I'm guessing some ACTING! COACH! told him this was a good idea once upon a time.

Mama Zappa
11-17-2010, 01:00 PM
I always wondered if the Peace with the Dominion would have held. There were a lot of planets in the Dominion besides the Founders. Plus The Jem'Hadar were still around. I'm not sure making peace with the Founders was enough to remove the threat.

It's similar to the Shadow war on Babylon 5. After the Shadows left there was another season dealing with other bad guys that supported & worked with the Shadows.
It's different, though. The Jem'Hadar were essentially slaves to the Founders - they'd been created or genetically engineered to need a substance that only the Founders could provide (white something-or-other, I think). The other big race that we saw a lot of - and I forget their names but Jeffrey Combs played Weyoun, one member) referred to the Founders as gods. Something like "you don't speak that way to a GOD!").

If Jesus and His brothers and sisters were among you, and you *knew* they were Jesus and kin, and they said quit fighting, you'd quit fighting.

Other races in the Dominion - if there were any that weren't so completely subjugated - probably had comparatively little desire to battle the Federation and would have been perfectly happy to stop the fighting.

Tanbarkie
11-17-2010, 01:05 PM
He does have an annoying tendency to unnaturally pause between words that begin and end with the same consonant. Listen to him say "weapons (lengthy pause) stations!" for example.

I'm guessing some ACTING! COACH! told him this was a good idea once upon a time.

Eh, I chalk that up to odd personal delivery (much like Shatner's own well-known penchant for random pauses). It may also come from his theater background - like his fellow Trek captains, Shatner and Stewart, Brooks did a fair amount of Shakespeare back in the day.

It works for me, because Brooks's speaking style fits the character quite well. He tended to dial up the pauses during tense action sequences (because Sisko is the most bad-ass of Starfleet captains), and turn it waaaaay down, to the point of soft-spokenness, during Emissary or personal scenes. It fits the duality of the character, torn between the two worlds of the Federation and Bajor, and his place as the "in between" Star Trek captain - less brash and more mature than Kirk, but more decisive and less diplomatically-inclined than Picard.

cochrane
11-17-2010, 01:08 PM
For your consideration: A good Ferengi episode. Yes, it exists! Little Green Men - the one where Quark, Rom and Nog end up in 1940s New Mexico.Roswell, NM, specifically, in July 1947. And didn't Odo stow away?

mlees
11-17-2010, 01:12 PM
It fits the duality of the character, torn between the two worlds of the Federation and Bajor, and his place as the "in between" Star Trek captain - less brash and more mature than Kirk, but more decisive and less diplomatically-inclined than Picard.

I thought the look on Q's face was funny when he succesfully goaded sisko into belting him in the mouth.

"You actually HIT me! Picard never did that!"

Skammer
11-17-2010, 01:31 PM
I loved DS9; easily my favorite ST series. I probably haven't seen most of the episodes since they aired, though, so I really oughta Netflix them. I just loved the huge epic feel of season 7, especially.

Kolga
11-17-2010, 02:04 PM
I thought the look on Q's face was funny when he succesfully goaded sisko into belting him in the mouth.

"You actually HIT me! Picard never did that!"

"I'm not Picard." With a slightly evil smile. That was awesome.

ReticulatingSplines
11-17-2010, 04:32 PM
I loved Brooks' character overall, but damn, his cadence was annoying.

Sattua
11-17-2010, 04:36 PM
I was a big Odo fan, so Necessary Evil was my favorite episode of the series.

I was 13 when it first aired, and was a major geeked-out fan for the first 3-4 seasons. Then I stopped watching. In my mid-twenties I watched through the whole series on Netflix, and was impressed by how good it really was.

Typo Knig
11-17-2010, 08:45 PM
I liked the two-parter where they ended up in early 21st century San Francisco. Bashir complaining that many of the mentally ill in the ghetto were treatable - in our time - was an excellent point.

I liked the baseball episode. It was a good break from the grim, yet interesting, war. I liked showing that (some) Vulcans were dicks.

I loved the Vic Damone episodes, especially the one where Vic helps Nog after his war experiences. Also the one where DS9 did a *great* Las Vegas caper story in one hour. Bonus points for Sisko pointing out that he and Cassidy and Jake wouldn't exactly have been welcome in the real 1950's Vegas.

The Dominon War story arc is where DS9 really found its feet, IMO. It was tough, dark, gritty and grim. The Federation was losing the war - despite all their earnestness. The episode where Sisko & co. relieve a Federation outpost where the Jem'Hadar were using teleporting mines was good. I really liked the one where Jake ended up in combat and seeing all sides of it.

Benny the sci-fi writer was good, as was the "home built light sail ship" one.

I even liked most of the Ferengi episodes. I feel so alone here ...

I need to win the lottery to have the time to watch all of DS9 again.

Elendil's Heir
11-17-2010, 09:52 PM
Ooo, ooo, and "Children of Time," where the Defiant crew meets their descendants on a barrier-encircled world, and then must decide if they will save themselves or those who will come after them. Good stuff. Great scene with Odo and Kira at the end.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Children_of_Time

Tim R. Mortiss
11-17-2010, 10:02 PM
My favoirte DS9 moment of all time: The Federation has been forced by the Cardasians to abandon the station. Gul Dukat, full of piss and swagger, strides into Sisko's former office to claim his prize. There he sees on the desk: Sisko's baseball.

We didn't really need the dialog that followed, because it was obvious:

"What does it mean?"
"It means..... he'll be back!"

Mr. Excellent
11-18-2010, 12:22 AM
"Rocks and Shoals" - Sisko has just failed to negotiate a truce with a Jem'Hadar leader whom he's come to respect, and whom he holds an overwhelming tactical advantage over. His victory is inevitable, and he's about to have to kill this man. O'Brien asks how the negotiation went, and what the Jem'Hadar commander said.

Sisko: "All the wrong things."

Great line, delivered with a perfect tone of grim resignation. This was after Brooks had learned to act, of course.

Captain Amazing
11-18-2010, 01:07 AM
the one where Kira befriends an elderly Cardassian man who's wracked by guilt for what happened during the Occuptation;

That's "Duet", by the way, and it's based on Robert Shaw's play "The Man in the Glass Booth", about a man who's arrested and put on trial for being a Nazi concentration camp commander.

Fried Dough Ho
11-18-2010, 01:14 AM
That's "Duet", by the way, and it's based on Robert Shaw's play "The Man in the Glass Booth", about a man who's arrested and put on trial for being a Nazi concentration camp commander.

REALLY? I *love* that movie and never would have made that connection...

aceplace57
11-18-2010, 01:31 AM
I think so. Someone had to keep Quark and his greed from taking over. Odo was always around keeping Quark in line.

Roswell, NM, specifically, in July 1947. And didn't Odo stow away?

House of Quark is my favorite Quark episode. He marries a Klingon woman and has to defend the honor of the house. It was the first time we saw a better, more decent side of Quark. Quark was always greedy and in love of profit. But, underneath that there was some good. Not a lot. But, some.

Icerigger
11-18-2010, 04:45 AM
I waited for 30 years for the final scene in Call to Arms when you actually saw Star fleet, awesome scene that had my worked up for days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnZnKYUKlGU

FordTaurusSHO94
11-18-2010, 09:17 AM
I waited for 30 years for the final scene in Call to Arms when you actually saw Star fleet, awesome scene that had my worked up for days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnZnKYUKlGU

I always thought the battles in First Contact and Nemesis were the best I'd seen until I started watching the fleet battles during the war. I'll finish off season 6 tonight.

carnivorousplant
11-18-2010, 01:41 PM
I also enjoyed the Ferengi episodes. Particularly the one where Quark steals a cloaking device.

Elendil's Heir
11-18-2010, 03:57 PM
I also enjoyed the Ferengi episodes. Particularly the one where Quark steals a cloaking device.

The only good thing about that episode, IMHO, is seeing Quark and Rom carry the invisible gadget through the hallways of DS9, trying to look nonchalant. It was some great physical comedy/mime work.

FordTaurusSHO94
11-18-2010, 11:07 PM
I just finished Profit and Lace. Yuck.

The Valiant was on the same disc though, that was an alright episode. Just because a Defiant class ship is tough doesn't mean it can't be destroyed by a bad crew.

BigT
11-18-2010, 11:33 PM
I liked at least one holodeck episode: the one where Dr. Bashir was a spy. Of course, I liked the idea of him being genetically altered.

Also, the one good thing about Season 7 was the replacement Dax. De Boer could wear the spots and not lose her attractiveness, unlike Farrell who was only attractive in Trials and Tribulations. That, and it does well with the MST3K treatment.

Heck, if you don't mind another Confused Matthew shoutout: try this (http://www.confusedmatthew.com/Star-Trek%3A-Deep-Space-Nine-Season-7.php).

Darth Nader
11-19-2010, 01:45 AM
Duet, again.
You have no idea what it's like to be a coward... See these horrors and... do nothing... Marritza is dead, he deserves to be dead.

gonzoron
11-19-2010, 07:50 AM
Also, the one good thing about Season 7 was the replacement Dax.This is a stance I disagee with, but respect your right to hold.

unlike Farrell who was only attractive in Trials and Tribulations.This however, is unfathomable to me. I spent many a night in my teens and twenties imagining following the trail of Jadzia's spots. Ezri was a cute girl. Jadzia was a beautiful woman... If I may pollute a Trek thread with a Firefly quote... "I'll be in my bunk." :)

Omi no Kami
11-19-2010, 08:10 AM
Incidentally, if I wanted to re-watch the Dominion War arc that occupied the bulk of the series, which episode should I start on?

Captain Amazing
11-19-2010, 08:22 AM
Heck, if you don't mind another Confused Matthew shoutout: try this (http://www.confusedmatthew.com/Star-Trek%3A-Deep-Space-Nine-Season-7.php).

Well, that man is annoyingly overwrought. I've listened to the first video and a half, where he's bitching about Dukat's actions in the 6th season finale and first season episode, and he's making the strange assumption that late 6th season-early 7th season Dukat is rational.

Elendil's Heir
11-19-2010, 10:55 AM
Incidentally, if I wanted to re-watch the Dominion War arc that occupied the bulk of the series, which episode should I start on?

Although there was quite a bit of buildup to it, I'd start with this, at the end of the fifth season: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_to_Arms_(Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine)

Mr. Excellent
11-19-2010, 11:00 AM
Although there was quite a bit of buildup to it, I'd start with this, at the end of the fifth season: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_to_Arms_(Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine)

Though if you're including the substantive build-up (and since you refer to this arc as taking up "the bulk of the series", I assume you are), I'd start no later than the start of the third season.

FordTaurusSHO94
11-19-2010, 01:02 PM
I'd start with the last episode of season 2 "The Jem'hadar" where you finally meet members of The Dominion.

I remembered an episode I didn't like. "If Wishes Were Horses," where O'Brien doesn't battle a Cardassian, Romulan, Klingon, or Breen, he fights.... Rumplestiltskin.

Mr. Excellent
11-20-2010, 03:04 PM
This is a stance I disagee with, but respect your right to hold.

This however, is unfathomable to me. I spent many a night in my teens and twenties imagining following the trail of Jadzia's spots. Ezri was a cute girl. Jadzia was a beautiful woman... If I may pollute a Trek thread with a Firefly quote... "I'll be in my bunk." :)

I agree with you so far as that goes, but would submit that Kira blows both of them entirely out of the proverbial water - she's the great unsung Star Trek Babe of the series.

FordTaurusSHO94
11-20-2010, 06:40 PM
Quark always had nice looking women working for him too, like Leeta.

Icerigger
11-20-2010, 06:50 PM
I also love It's Only a Paper Moon a story featuring Nog and Vic. I think it speaks well of the series that two peripheral characters could hold an entire episode but they pull it off. One thing DS9 had in abundance was a large cast of good side characters. I know allot of fans don't like Vic Fontaine but I do and I think he is used very well and Nog comes across as a real person suffering psychological problems.

alphaboi867
11-20-2010, 08:56 PM
I never really liked Ezri Dax. I always thought they this great opportunity where they could put Dax into another male host after the audience & every character save Sisko have gotten to her as female and blew it by just putting her into a younger female.

DWMarch
11-21-2010, 03:47 AM
I never really liked Ezri Dax. I always thought they this great opportunity where they could put Dax into another male host after the audience & every character save Sisko have gotten to her as female and blew it by just putting her into a younger female.

But if they had done that the show would have been Star Trek: Deep Space Sausage Fest.

Chimera
11-21-2010, 10:55 AM
They did it to keep a semi-familiar character (she's still Dax) and to introduce some tension, primarily with Worf (dead ex-wife still haunting him in the form of another person who remembers being with him) and the other players who knew Dax.

Just too bad (but probably for the best) that they didn't put Dax into a flamingly gay male. Now THERE would have been some 'dramatic tension' with Worf! ;)

Illuminatiprimus
11-21-2010, 03:20 PM
I waited for 30 years for the final scene in Call to Arms when you actually saw Star fleet, awesome scene that had my worked up for days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnZnKYUKlGUCall to arms is definitely one bad ass episode and probably my favourite - it has two particularly outstanding shots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdLYhoLtzH8&feature=related

5.15 - the minefield cloaking followed by Dukat and Weyoun's reaction to it.

9.00 - watching the Defiant fly away from the station cloaking at the same time as Martok's bird of prey, each of them making their own different cloaking noises.

And of course the priceless 0.30 - Kira being all official n'stuff. :)

The only downside to it was the fact that after waiting for so long to see the station being attacked by the Dominion (finally!) we got a fight that was largely off camera and made up of recycled shots due to the fact that it was the end of that season (I'm such a geek I can even tell you where those recycled shots were from too :D ).

DS9 was definitely my favourite trek, and easily one of my favourite shows too. I loved the Dominion mainly because they were played so well and grew from simply a name we kept hearing, to an unknown quantity after first met in Jem Hadar, to a distinct threat then onto a HUGE threat that at one point looked like it was going to take down the Federation. The arc that encompassed this was played brilliantly, particularly with the various parts of the Dominion acting together to make them so frightening (the Founders - can be anyone and anywhere, the Jem Hadar - an unstoppable killing machine, the Vorta - the bureaucrats from hell and utterly loyal to the Founders). This made them, for me, far more real and tangible as a complex society and threat than simply another generic race of warriors who were all uniformly bad.

I have to say that some of the Ferengi eps were okay, but on the whole they weren't the strongest. I think my favourite one was Civil Defence (http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Civil_Defense_(episode)) where Jake and Sisko accidentally trigger an old program that was never removed from the system designed to stop a Bajoran uprising happening, and quickly find the station turn against them as they're identified as rebels. I'd say hilarity ensues but it's more a case of just how much worse can this situation get? :D

Worst - Vic Fontaine. I never actually found out how Odo declared his undying love to Kira because it involved watching a Fontaine episode to do so and I couldn't bring myself to do it.

Icerigger
11-21-2010, 05:35 PM
Fans seem either to hate Vic or love him, I'm the former.

3waygeek
11-22-2010, 11:05 AM
I never really liked Ezri Dax.Neither did I -- my friends and I always referred to her as "Ally McTrill", since she reminded us so much of Callista Flockhart's then-well-known character.

FordTaurusSHO94
11-22-2010, 11:21 AM
I finished Season 6 over the weekend. I liked Tears of the Prophets, but was strange in a few places. Kira was on the Defiant while Dax stayed on the station? The doctor of the Defiant was on the station while the Defiant was going into battle? Kira took over for Sisko, even though Worf was next in line while on the Defiant?

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