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Infovore
11-17-2010, 12:27 PM
Is anybody else reading this? I'm about 8 chapters in and finding it highly amusing (and probably the most well written Harry Potter fanfic I've seen). It's very long and definitely not for everybody, but if you like HP and think you'd like an alternate-universe fanfic that pokes gentle (and very funny) holes in some of the inconsistencies of the originals, check it out!

Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/1/Harry_Potter_and_the_Methods_of_Rationality)

Spatial Rift 47
11-17-2010, 12:45 PM
I've been following this fic for some time - which is unusual for me; until I found this one I hadn't read any HP fanfic in years. It is, in a word, fantastic. Since the OP is only up to chapter 8 I won't post any spoilers, but some amazing things happen. But really what makes this so excellent for me is the characters are no longer the slaves to tradition that they are in Rowling's books - they do things intelligently and practically. It's the equivalent of a Superman fanfic where he makes an idle comment to himself about how silly it would be if all he needed to disguise himself was a pair of glasses before putting on his holographic illusion generator from Krypton.

FrigidLizard
11-17-2010, 07:16 PM
Well color me surprised! :eek: I absolutely detest fanfic, but this is really very entertaining. I'm only to chapter 4, but I expect I'll be caught up soon.

GilaB
11-17-2010, 10:31 PM
The characters talk like lecturers or textbooks, rather than like people. I'm in the middle of chapter seven, but doubt I'll get that much further.

Sir Prize
11-17-2010, 10:49 PM
I have been enjoying this too. It's hard when you reach the last chapter and you have to start waiting for each new chapter to be published, but he seems to write them at a good clip.

Both the plotting and the characterization are very impressive. I wonder if Roweling has read it.

I do find it hard to imagine this Harry as 12 years old even as a mental prodigy. In my mind he flips between 12 and 20.

araminty
11-17-2010, 11:34 PM
To be nitpicky - if you're going to set a story in England, use English terms. Oxford doesn't have "tenured professors," it has dons. And they teach maths, not "math."

runcible spoon
11-21-2010, 12:02 AM
The characters talk like lecturers or textbooks, rather than like people. I'm in the middle of chapter seven, but doubt I'll get that much further.

If you can make it through the first dozen chapters, that cuts down a lot. Not that Harry starts acting like an ordinary eleven year old, but he does lecture less.

The tone changes significantly, too. At first, it's pretty much pure parody, but later it becomes a very serious, and quite well-done, story in its own right. Unfortunately, the transition is rather rough; until you get used to this being Ender Wiggins Goes To Hogwarts, the eleven-year-old characters are pretty unbelievable. Dumbledore's pretty painful to read, too, since the author is firmly in the Dumbledore-is-an-old-fraud camp. There's at least one chapter that's basically Harry saying meaningless Zen Koans and Dumbledore lapping it all up, which feels awfully straw-mannish.

That said, it turns out that Ender Wiggins Goes To Hogwarts is actually a damn good read. Tight plotting, more surprises than I expected, and some characters I actually cared about.

kaylasdad99
11-24-2010, 09:41 AM
I finished Chapter 60 the other day. Loved it, beginning to end, and I'm extremely eager to find out what happens to most of these characters.

I like the way that Harry's relationship (and the value he places on it) with Minerva is more important than his relarionship with Dumbledore. It throws my epectations out of balance, and makes it easier for me to accept other apparent differences in plot points.

MaxTheVool
11-24-2010, 04:26 PM
I absolutely devoured all 60 chapters over the past two days, really really enjoyed them.


So the biggest open questions seem to be:

What's up with Quirrel? Obviously he doesn't have Voldemort living in the back of his head, at least not the same way... but there do seem to be some parallels. On the other hand, he very clearly could have killed Harry any number of times up until now, and did not do so.

Who was the mysterious 5th party who was advising that Slytherin student? Mr Hat-and-Cloak?

Did Dumbledore really burn Narcissa to death?

Is Sirius Black innocent? And what's with the "leakage" of stories from the "normal" HP universe? Is it just a few random jokes, or are we to assume that Bill Weasley was suspicious of Scabbers (who was NOT Peter Pettigrew) because of some echo or feedback or something?

What's with Harry's black rage? Leakage from his scar Horcrux presumably?

Ichini Sanshigo
12-07-2010, 06:50 AM
So, I've been hearing about this fic all over the place and I decided to check it out...

There's a webcomic called Homestuck, part of MSPaint Adventures. There was a character who we'd only been introduced to through chat logs, and all the readers had formed various impressions of him. Then the author finally showed us what this kid looked like. Many people's immediate reaction was that they wanted to punch this kid in the face.

That's how I feel about this Harry Potter.

Oh, not at first, and certainly not constantly, but there are moments. Child-genius Harry often comes across (to me, anyway) as a snobby asshole. And most of the time, the author intends this as a deliberate part of his character. But sometimes it looks like the author believes Harry to be in the right. This Harry can be as frustrating as cannon Harry, but in a different way.

That said, overall I do enjoy this story very much. There are some jolting elements, like his dismissal of Ron, and it's pretty obvious the author really, really doesn't like Dumbledore.

The scene where he argues with Dumbledore about the afterlife was a real wallbanger moment. Harry was basically arguing against straw, and he was still wrong on so many friggin' levels, and I agree with him! (at least on the point that there's no afterlife). I just wanted to reach through the computer screen and pimp slap the insufferable prick a few dozen times. Half the time I like this character, the other half I want to kick him in the nuts. Great story... interesting protagonist. I can't wait to see what happens past Chapter 45.

gaffa
12-07-2010, 11:29 AM
I'm up to Chapter 20. This Harry is really an insufferable little prick and a bit of a Mary Sue, but I get the impression a good editor could make this into an excellent book.

E-Sabbath
12-07-2010, 11:47 AM
There's at least one chapter that's basically Harry saying meaningless Zen Koans and Dumbledore lapping it all up, which feels awfully straw-mannish.

I believe, a chapter or two later, Dumbledore indicates that he was only lapping it up entirely on purpose. Dumbledore isn't a fraud and he isn't dumb, he's just playing a deep game. In fact, I'm going to say that, ignoring the 'naked man' part, I don't think we've seen the real Dumbledore yet. Even in the amazingly Enderish immortality discussion.

That being said, I stopped reading once the skeleton was removed from the cell. (should be obvious where that was), and am waiting for a considerable bit more before restarting. I think it's obvious Volde is _also_ playing a much deeper game than the books showed him doing. I think it's obvious what the Mysterious Dark Side is, and what happens to a villian once you remove his mysterious dark side.

What worries me is some backstory incongruities. Narcissa being dead, the issue of the Weasley rat, and Sirus Black. There's something going on I'm not seeing at all.

Love Rhombus
12-07-2010, 11:54 AM
I'm up to Chapter 20. This Harry is really an insufferable little prick and a bit of a Mary Sue, but I get the impression a good editor could make this into an excellent book.

Agreed. I just feel like it's so arrogant sometimes that it puts me off. "Things HAVE to be this way because my books all say so and I'm so bright!" He really needs to have more inexplicable stuff happen or just get slapped by someone who doesn't know science, but does know magic. Sometimes things are "just cause". And am I the only one really pulling for him to

get into Hufflepuff? The poor snotty overly-intelligent kid needs it, and it's the House everyone seems to kick to the curb and dismiss. Also he seems to worry about being Obliviated a lot.

Sometimes it's tough going, though. He needs a genuine friend like Ron, ironically, as much of a load as he was. I haven't gotten very far though yet.

kimera
12-07-2010, 12:38 PM
I'm in agreement with those who say that Harry needs to be kicked in the head. The problem with the story I have so far is that I can't stand the main character, even though I'm in agreement with a lot of what he says. The other part I can't stand is that he talks about how logic and science is supreme, but then he makes a ton of logical fallacies/science mistakes.

My favorite part in the series so far (I'm up to chapter 50) is the moment when he's in the conversation with Severus and shows vulnerability.

Spatial Rift 47
12-07-2010, 03:33 PM
I absolutely devoured all 60 chapters over the past two days, really really enjoyed them.


So the biggest open questions seem to be:

What's up with Quirrel? Obviously he doesn't have Voldemort living in the back of his head, at least not the same way... but there do seem to be some parallels. On the other hand, he very clearly could have killed Harry any number of times up until now, and did not do so.

Who was the mysterious 5th party who was advising that Slytherin student? Mr Hat-and-Cloak?

Did Dumbledore really burn Narcissa to death?

Is Sirius Black innocent? And what's with the "leakage" of stories from the "normal" HP universe? Is it just a few random jokes, or are we to assume that Bill Weasley was suspicious of Scabbers (who was NOT Peter Pettigrew) because of some echo or feedback or something?

What's with Harry's black rage? Leakage from his scar Horcrux presumably?


Major, MAJOR spoilers in partial answer to Max's questions:

Voldemort is definitely living inside Quirrell, just in a much more practical way. Hogwarts is a renowned school, he would draw too much attention to himself by being a stuttering incompetent. Instead he acts like a (perhaps slightly over-) confident person. The clues to this are three: 1) The sense of DOOOOOM Harry gets when he or his magic goes too near Quirrell, 2) the zombie-like state Quirrell periodically enters and then instantly recovers from (possession is not perfectly efficient), and 3) Quirrell mentioned a spell he put on the Pioneer plaque that would make it last much much longer. This was Voldemort turning the plaque into a horcrux that was then sent very very far away. He hasn't killed Harry yet because he has something bigger planned. Oh, and Word of Author says Quirrell isn't wearing a turban in this story, because Voldemort is not so stupid as to have his own face sticking out the back of a head where it could be noticed.

Mr. Hat-and-Cloak was definitely Dumbledore. There's a line somewhere about how he got in on the plotting fad everyone was doing.

I don't have clear answers on the other ones.

The thing to realize about this fic is this author is even more subtle about clues and foreshadowing than Rowling is, by a large factor. At some point during the current hiatus I intend to re-read everything with a fine tooth comb to see what I missed that's already come up, and what might yet arise in the story.

Weedy
12-07-2010, 04:27 PM
It's good when it's not being preachy (at its worst with the Patronus explanations). This version of Harry is nothing like an 11 year old boy, but that's OK. I like Draco, and the conversations with him and Harry.

Spoilery questions about Snape and Voldemort:
I really wonder what is going to happen with Snape. If Harry convinced him that Lily was nothing special and he gets over her, will there be anything to stop him turning to the dark side?

Voldemort/Quirrel is acting pretty strange. What reason could he have to mentor Harry?

Spatial Rift 47
12-07-2010, 04:31 PM
Weedy, I think I have an idea about your question. Spoilers up to basically the current point in the story, chapter 63.

Dumbledore mentions at one point, when he thinks it was Voldemort Returned and not Harry that was involved in breaking Bellatrix out of Azkaban, that Voldemort is watching and learning from Harry (cf. use of Muggle rocketry). I think that's why Voldemort is actually mentoring Harry - he knows Harry Potter caused his downfall once before, and he wants to thoroughly study and understand him as a precursor to rising again.

Bryan Ekers
12-07-2010, 07:26 PM
Some of the Quirrel/Harry conversations reminded me of the Dubois/Rico conversations in the early part of Starship Troopers:

"That's a very cogent analysis, Mister Potter/Rico. Thoughtful, detailed... and WRONG! YOU'RE 100 PERCENT WRONG! YOU COULDN'T BE MORE WRONG IF YOUR BUTT WAS ON BACKWARDS!"

USCDiver
12-07-2010, 09:40 PM
Ender Wiggins Goes To Hogwarts

I'm only on Chapter 6, but this is exactly what I was going to call this story!

Maastricht
12-08-2010, 04:37 PM
Great fun. I've got a new addiction.

Weedy
12-08-2010, 06:04 PM
Weedy, I think I have an idea about your question. Spoilers up to basically the current point in the story, chapter 63.

Dumbledore mentions at one point, when he thinks it was Voldemort Returned and not Harry that was involved in breaking Bellatrix out of Azkaban, that Voldemort is watching and learning from Harry (cf. use of Muggle rocketry). I think that's why Voldemort is actually mentoring Harry - he knows Harry Potter caused his downfall once before, and he wants to thoroughly study and understand him as a precursor to rising again.

That could be it. But
He is taking an awful risk by letting Harry grow and learn so much. The two of them even had that conversation about what not to do as an evil overlord, though I don't remember if they specifically mentioned not killing the hero when you have the chance. It's pretty high on the list, though, of what not to do.

Maserschmidt
11-10-2013, 10:34 PM
Bump!

I just raced through this to the current chapter, 98. It's very dark, but it's also very entertaining.

Greg Charles
11-10-2013, 11:37 PM
I just finished chapter 90, and it's gotten a bit dark for me. I was enjoying it before that though. It's hard for me to see where it's going now.

Maserschmidt
11-11-2013, 09:45 AM
I just finished chapter 90, and it's gotten a bit dark for me. I was enjoying it before that though. It's hard for me to see where it's going now.

I admit that was pretty brutal, and I'm still reeling a bit from it. I'm still following it though.

BigT
11-11-2013, 05:08 PM
I admit that was pretty brutal, and I'm still reeling a bit from it. I'm still following it though.

Meh, we've been set up for a reversal for quite long time. It would have affected me more if I thought it would be permanent. This version of Harry will not lose to the sworn enemy of the Potter House.

That enemy being Death itself, of course.

MaxTheVool
11-11-2013, 05:45 PM
Anyone know when the next (and presumably final) story arc will begin? I'm chomping at the bit!

By the way, I found a page with a bunch of fan theories, one of which I really love (spoiler boxing just because it's a crazy theory):

When Harry first shows up way back in chapters 1 and 2, people ask him "Are you Harry Potter" and he responds with something like "well, I have no reason to believe otherwise, people have been telling me that since I was little". Clearly that just sounds like him being his slightly obnoxiously pedantic self. But it could also be a massive-in-plain-sight clue that he is NOT in fact Harry Potter. That Harry Potter, the blood son of the elder Potters, did in fact die, and the character Harry Potter that we've been reading about this whole time, who grew up thinking he was that son, is in fact... something else. Most likely, a part of Voldemort, with Quirrell being another part.

Maserschmidt
11-11-2013, 06:20 PM
Meh, we've been set up for a reversal for quite long time. It would have affected me more if I thought it would be permanent. This version of Harry will not lose to the sworn enemy of the Potter House.

That enemy being Death itself, of course.

I actually kind of hope not.

Anyone know when the next (and presumably final) story arc will begin? I'm chomping at the bit!

By the way, I found a page with a bunch of fan theories, one of which I really love (spoiler boxing just because it's a crazy theory):

When Harry first shows up way back in chapters 1 and 2, people ask him "Are you Harry Potter" and he responds with something like "well, I have no reason to believe otherwise, people have been telling me that since I was little". Clearly that just sounds like him being his slightly obnoxiously pedantic self. But it could also be a massive-in-plain-sight clue that he is NOT in fact Harry Potter. That Harry Potter, the blood son of the elder Potters, did in fact die, and the character Harry Potter that we've been reading about this whole time, who grew up thinking he was that son, is in fact... something else. Most likely, a part of Voldemort, with Quirrell being another part.


What a wild, intriguing theory. I may have to go back and reread in that light.

According to someone on Reddit (yes, I know that's not a formal cite), we're getting two interim bits and then the final arc starts...guesses are that it would start in April or May.

Actually, speaking of Reddit, there are lots of intriguing ideas there...I got lost a bit perusing them the last week or so.

BigT
11-12-2013, 10:03 PM
I actually kind of hope not.

I understand that hope, but I really don't see any other way it can be dealt with. Harry is not going to have to just accept what happened, as that's exactly what all the irrational, non-loving people do.

And I don't see Harry losing, either, as the purpose of the work is to promote rationality, not to condemn it.

And while I would love a hero's sacrifice, that doesn't fit the rational framework either. Like it or not,

Harry, with his intelligence, is worth more alive than Hermione.

Finally, the author has said that the story will not have a twist--that he will not ever actively try to deceive the readers. If something appears to be true, it is true.

So, unless someone can find something I'm missing or a flaw, I really think what I said is going to happen.

Achren
11-12-2013, 10:32 PM
Harry, with his intelligence, is worth more alive than Hermione.

There's no female character worth as much as the main guys.

Gagundathar
11-14-2013, 05:02 PM
I read this fairly early in its development, and only got up to chapter 45 or so.
So, I am anticipating what happens next, but I am rereading it from the beginning.

I remembered some of the really remarkable stuff from the early chapters but I had forgotten how good the rest of it is. I wish this author had a proper editor and a publisher. She deserves to be known for her work.

But, at least she gets to see what folks think about her work, which is the first thing I think of as an artist, the acclaim. That may be puerile, but I have sung songs that made people come to me afterward and thank me, and I am almost as proud of that as I am for my computer work.

Infovore
11-14-2013, 05:04 PM
The author is a woman? I thought it was a man. Was I mistaken? (I haven't read the story for a long time--I think I stopped about halfway in and just never got back into it.)

Greg Charles
11-14-2013, 06:05 PM
He's a man named Eliezer Yudkowsky. Methods is written under the pseudonym Less Wrong, but his real identity doesn't seem to be a big secret. It's even mentioned on his Wikipedia page.

Gagundathar
11-15-2013, 01:18 AM
Sorry, y'all. When I don't know the gender of a person, I default to feminine.
What can I say? I like women.
No, properly said, I love women.

Yes, there you have it. I'm a flaming heterosexual.

tim314
11-15-2013, 01:25 PM
Wow, Gagundathar, you managed to work your singing ability, your computer skills, and your heterosexuality into a thread about a Harry Potter fanfic.

Maserschmidt
11-15-2013, 07:49 PM
And I don't see Harry losing, either, as the purpose of the work is to promote rationality, not to condemn it.


Has he said that? I could see the conclusion being that rationality alone isn't enough either.

Bites When Provoked
11-24-2013, 11:04 PM
I started reading a week ago after reading this thread and am finally caught up now. I love it it! It went through some ups and downs but it's definitely ramped up as it's gone along.

It may help that I've never read the books and therefore didn't have to learn a new way of relating to the characters, so I wasn't jarred by any reinterpretations of their character.

kaylasdad99
12-16-2013, 07:43 PM
As of December 11, the story continues. (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/99/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Rationality)

THREE new chapters, too!

BigT
02-08-2014, 10:19 AM
Has he said that? I could see the conclusion being that rationality alone isn't enough either.

If we go with the idea that Harry represents a burgeoning artificial intelligence--one that is trying to be ethical--that might work.

But I just don't see the author, after going to such lengths to say how evil death is to then switch to the idea that it is acceptable. And that's what he'd have to do to have that more poetic ending. Either Harry would accept it, or the world is doomed because Harry couldn't accept it--both communicating that death is acceptable. Though I admit that the more recent updates make that last scenario seem more and more likely.

Also, doing my best to keep this thread spoiler free since we've got some new recruits (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17078545#post17078545) who may want to post. Heck, that's why I'm resurrecting the thread. (For spoilered text like I included above, put around any text you want to hide. A thread full of spoilerboxes isn't great, either.)

Magiver
02-09-2014, 03:54 AM
how far into the original series is this so far? I've downloaded a PDF file of 1633 pages and it's up to chapter 95. I'm up to 15 and am downloading the podcasts as I go.

Or have I asked a non-question? It appears to parallel things in a general way and I assume there's still a theme of Harry vs Voldemort.

Mr. Goob
02-09-2014, 06:15 PM
Yes Harry vs. Voldy. But as I'm seeing it everything happens including the upcoming final showdown compressed in the first year. The author is dropping all sorts of references and things we learned in the next six years (books) backwards into the 101 chapters released do far. He said in the author notes after chapter 101;

The story currently has one more one-shot update left to go,
and after that the long final arc which will wrap everything up with no loose ends,
which I fondly hope to get done before the end of 2014.

Magiver
02-09-2014, 06:19 PM
Yes Harry vs. Voldy. But as I'm seeing it everything happens including the upcoming final showdown compressed in the first year. The author is dropping all sorts of references and things we learned in the next six years (books) backwards into the 101 chapters released do far. He said in the author notes after chapter 101;

The story currently has one more one-shot update left to go,
and after that the long final arc which will wrap everything up with no loose ends,
which I fondly hope to get done before the end of 2014. Wow, he's got an 11 year old prodigy up against the Dark Lord. I look forward to reading it.

Tabby_Cat
02-09-2014, 07:47 PM
This was great. I didn't like the HP universe much, but I was absolutely glued to this fanfic. I can't wait for the next updates!

chorpler
02-09-2014, 10:37 PM
My wife and daughters were appalled every time I brought up events from this story, but I still like it. And regarding how far along it is -- we're over 100 chapters in and it's not even done with Harry's first year of Hogwart's.

sachertorte
02-10-2014, 10:00 AM
My wife and daughters were appalled every time I brought up events from this story, but I still like it. And regarding how far along it is -- we're over 100 chapters in and it's not even done with Harry's first year of Hogwart's.

I enjoyed the series at first, but then I felt it dragged on and on without advancing the story. I've stopped. Should I restart?

bldysabba
02-11-2014, 04:19 AM
My wife and daughters were appalled every time I brought up events from this story, but I still like it. And regarding how far along it is -- we're over 100 chapters in and it's not even done with Harry's first year of Hogwart's.

True, but I also think that there is no intention of doing 7 years. I believe the story is on its final arc.

BigT
02-11-2014, 08:44 AM
I enjoyed the series at first, but then I felt it dragged on and on without advancing the story. I've stopped. Should I restart?

I'm actually surprised that so many people were able to read it in one go. It really is more of an episodic series than a book.

That said, it is always progressing, even if, at the time, you don't realize the importance of what you are reading. The author follows a rather strict A + B leads to C formula. So, yeah, I'd suggest giving it another go. Though maybe you shouldn't actually "restart" unless you are okay with skimming the stuff you already read. If you felt bogged down before, you'll feel that way again.

I'm actually curious--at what point did you get all bogged down, anyways?

Johnny Angel
02-11-2014, 12:33 PM
I started in on this because of its mention in another Harry Potter thread, and I like the broad conceit -- suppose instead of being a dopey kid, Harry Potter was a Mary Sue stand-in for the well-informed rationalist the reader likes to fancy his or her self. It uses the wizarding world as something to practice the wielding of rationalist tropes against, kind of like a Sophie's World on somebody else's intellectual property.

But so far, up to chapter six, Potter is so goddamned obnoxious even when he's discussing an interesting topic that I can scarcely stand it. It may be made worse because for the purpose of convenience, I have downloaded the audiobook version so that I can listen while I do household chores, and the person doing Harry's voice is not a voice actor as he himself confesses, and his reading tends to exaggerate Harry sounding like an obnoxious little tit.

sachertorte
02-11-2014, 02:37 PM
I'm actually surprised that so many people were able to read it in one go. It really is more of an episodic series than a book.

That said, it is always progressing, even if, at the time, you don't realize the importance of what you are reading. The author follows a rather strict A + B leads to C formula. So, yeah, I'd suggest giving it another go. Though maybe you shouldn't actually "restart" unless you are okay with skimming the stuff you already read. If you felt bogged down before, you'll feel that way again.

I'm actually curious--at what point did you get all bogged down, anyways?

There was a part where they had some sort of battle game. Then they had another one. I think they were going to have more so I stopped reading.

lisiate
02-11-2014, 03:19 PM
I started in on this because of its mention in another Harry Potter thread, and I like the broad conceit -- suppose instead of being a dopey kid, Harry Potter was a Mary Sue stand-in for the well-informed rationalist the reader likes to fancy his or her self. It uses the wizarding world as something to practice the wielding of rationalist tropes against, kind of like a Sophie's World on somebody else's intellectual property.

But so far, up to chapter six, Potter is so goddamned obnoxious even when he's discussing an interesting topic that I can scarcely stand it. It may be made worse because for the purpose of convenience, I have downloaded the audiobook version so that I can listen while I do household chores, and the person doing Harry's voice is not a voice actor as he himself confesses, and his reading tends to exaggerate Harry sounding like an obnoxious little tit.

I'm in the same boat (although I'm reading it rather than listening to an audiobook). Harry's an obnoxious prick still at chapter 25. I still enjoy it though, as I don't need protagonists to be likeable.

chorpler
02-12-2014, 03:24 PM
True, but I also think that there is no intention of doing 7 years. I believe the story is on its final arc.

Aw, man, really? Is that official? I think I remember him mentioning that it would be in the final arc soon (and this was a few updates back), but I just assumed he was talking about the final arc [i]for this school year[/b]. Is the whole thing really going to end soon? :(

Mr. Goob
02-12-2014, 04:21 PM
Here is a quote from the author after chapter 101;

The story currently has one more one-shot update left to go,
and after that the long final arc which will wrap everything up with no loose ends,
which I fondly hope to get done before the end of 2014.

At the author notes page he said;

Currently 3,341 words into Ch. 102. I donít know if Iíll post this chapter immediately upon its completion; after that starts the Final Arc which may take a while to write, so I may save 102 as a brief interlude during that long drought. (Ch. 102 is shaping up to be short. But not boring, rest assured.)

bldysabba
02-12-2014, 04:41 PM
Aw, man, really? Is that official? I think I remember him mentioning that it would be in the final arc soon (and this was a few updates back), but I just assumed he was talking about the final arc [i]for this school year[/b]. Is the whole thing really going to end soon? :(

Author's note

One more one-shot arc (probably one shorter chapter) remains to be written before I start work on the Last Arc of HPMOR which will wrap up all dangling threads and close all open parentheses. This is not impossible when you have planned everything out in advance.


So yea. Final Arc is final.

If you're looking for something else to read, read Worm. It's a superhero themed serial that's fairly dark, yet entertaining in the sense that it's episodic and keeps building up and you keep wanting to read more.
It was posted by Yudkowsky, and I repeat his warning. Do not start reading until you have a lot of free time. My note - read it if you have the ability to stop/pick up at will episodic fiction that has hooks which keep making you want to read just one more chapter. I don't have that sort of control. I read for five or six days straight without doing anything else, and I read about as fast as anyone I know. I was experiencing some fatigue towards the end, but overall I'd say it's worth a read.

http://parahumans.wordpress.com/category/stories-arcs-1-10/arc-1-gestation/1-01/

ETA: Forgot to mention, big plus, it's a completed story.


ETA: Ninya'd

Astral Rejection
02-12-2014, 07:39 PM
I was just about to post a thread about Worm. Might still do it. It's an incredible story, well worth anyone's time.

bengangmo
02-12-2014, 08:34 PM
I'm in the same boat (although I'm reading it rather than listening to an audiobook). Harry's an obnoxious prick still at chapter 25. I still enjoy it though, as I don't need protagonists to be likeable.

Yeah...but in the JKR version, I'm finding that Harry is a rather obnoxious little pratt in many ways - much of the things he does, and the way he behaves I would certainly punish.

And he seems to get a lot of indulgence from the authority figures around him.

chorpler
02-12-2014, 08:49 PM
Thanks, I did see that, but I assumed it was just referring to this part of HPMOR, for some reason. Oh well, as long as it really wraps up everything, I guess it will be okay.

I did see him mention that Worm story, and I started to read it, but as far as I could tell, there's no epub/mobi version and no podcast version, which makes it a lot less convenient to read -- I "read" most of HPMOR using the audio version while driving or working (I listen to audiobooks while coding), and much of the rest was read on my Kindle, often while out of wi-fi range, so the epub/mobi offline versions were extremely handy as well. Worm does seem pretty cool so far, though. If you do start a thread about it, Astral Rejection, please post a link in this thread so we can follow up there. :)

FlyingDragonFan
02-19-2014, 09:22 AM
There was a part where they had some sort of battle game. Then they had another one. I think they were going to have more so I stopped reading.
This is where I almost gave up, too. All the twists and turns and traitors and double-crosses in that section got overly complicated to me. But I stuck with it, and it gets better again after.

Bricker
02-19-2014, 09:42 AM
ETA: Forgot to mention, big plus, it's a completed story.


Thanks for this.

I swear, the next person that gets me hooked on a great story that's still "in progress" will be beaten severely with a ream of blank paper.

Love the story, hate the wait.

Maserschmidt
02-19-2014, 11:00 AM
Thanks for this.

I swear, the next person that gets me hooked on a great story that's still "in progress" will be beaten severely with a ream of blank paper.

Love the story, hate the wait.

I'm with ya, man. According to George RR Martin's publisher, the publication date of The Winds of Winter is "certainly not 2014".

BigT
03-06-2014, 02:08 PM
There was a part where they had some sort of battle game. Then they had another one. I think they were going to have more so I stopped reading.

Meh, the specifics aren't that important there. And they mostly stop after Christmas. You can definitely skim those parts. I sure didn't read them with close attention the first time, and I was fine.

sachertorte
03-06-2014, 02:30 PM
If someone can tall me which chapters the battles begin and end on, I'd give it another shot. As it is, I have no idea which chapter I gave up on (and I don't really want to re-read the whole thing).

dracoi
03-06-2014, 02:47 PM
If someone can tall me which chapters the battles begin and end on, I'd give it another shot. As it is, I have no idea which chapter I gave up on (and I don't really want to re-read the whole thing).

I'm on 40, and the student battles are just over. I think maybe 37 or 38 is the actual last one, but that'll put you in the right neighborhood anyway.

BigT
03-06-2014, 06:51 PM
I'm on 40, and the student battles are just over. I think maybe 37 or 38 is the actual last one, but that'll put you in the right neighborhood anyway.

Yeah, but I don't think you can skip them completely, especially since there's other important stuff between them. The most important part of the battles is reading how they end, as it's always one or another general being really smart (usually Harry). That's the only part I ever liked of them. Except the battle before Christmas, because they are pockets of game theory being exploited.

You said you were on battle number 2, correct? Just skip to Chapter 34, then, where all the good stuff in the Christmas battle is described. You might also read the last page or so of Chapter 33, if the last sentence of the first section intrigues you.

I could have sworn the battles took up a lot more space than this. Are you sure you're at the end, dracoi?

bldysabba
03-06-2014, 07:31 PM
I'm with ya, man. According to George RR Martin's publisher, the publication date of The Winds of Winter is "certainly not 2014".

Tastes vary of course, but I'd given up thinking of the Ice and fire series as a great story by the time I made it through the first book, and halfway through the second, I gave it up altogether.

MaxTheVool
03-06-2014, 08:15 PM
Tastes vary of course, but I'd given up thinking of the Ice and fire series as a great story by the time I made it through the first book, and halfway through the second, I gave it up altogether.

The third book is the high point. Its final chapters are maybe the most fun I've ever had reading fiction.

dracoi
03-06-2014, 08:22 PM
I could have sworn the battles took up a lot more space than this. Are you sure you're at the end, dracoi?

Perhaps it's just wishful thinking? So far, I've seen:

the first forest one, then an underwater one, and then the one where Hermione got dropped by the heir of Slipperin'.

Magiver
05-04-2014, 01:14 AM
gah..... I didn't realize how long this book was taking. I keep checking for updates like a drug addict. 102 is going to be delayed because of an expected gap in time between the next one. It's also suppose to be short and full of information.

Mr. Goob
01-29-2015, 12:16 AM
This evening chapter 103 was released.

Starting Feb 15th until March 14th (pi day, 3.14) chapters 104 - 120 will be released ending the story.

103 was pretty short and has a pretty good emotional point by Quirrll at the end.

So many unanswered plots. I'm just as curious to the answers as to how he as an author is going to pull it off.

BigT
01-29-2015, 06:15 PM
This evening chapter 103 was released.

Starting Feb 15th until March 14th (pi day, 3.14) chapters 104 - 120 will be released ending the story.

103 was pretty short and has a pretty good emotional point by Quirrll at the end.

So many unanswered plots. I'm just as curious to the answers as to how he as an author is going to pull it off.

Thanks for the update. I hadn't been checking recently.

I think I'll wait until it's finished to bother reading. But I will say that, if you search the forums, you'll find I don't think there's nearly as much left unanswered as people think.

MaxTheVool
02-16-2015, 11:37 AM
The final arc has begun!

MaxTheVool
02-28-2015, 04:19 PM
Well, I wasn't expecting THAT.


Now WE have to solve Harry's dilemma for him? And it's a tough-y... I wonder if the author actually believes there's a solution?

kaylasdad99
02-28-2015, 04:41 PM
. . . a - a - a - and, we've hit a snag. I'll spoiler this, so as to avoid angering the gods of spoilered ongoing stories.

Here we are, on February 28, chapter 113 of what the author has told us will be 120 Chapters. He has also told us that the intended completion date is pi day (03-14-15, possibly at 9:26:35, I suppose). Cite. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18090592&postcount=67)

And yet, at the end of Chapter 113, he's presenting us (the collective readership of this piece) with a brain-teaser, with the threat that if it is not solved by said readership to his satisfaction within sixty hours the next chapter, on March 3, will evidently end the story on what the protagonist would call the worst possible outcome.

To be accurate, he does not explicitly say that failure will result in chapters 115-120 being omitted. But the potential is there.

I have to say, this situation does not please me. At first, I speculated that he had written himself into a corner, and was counting on his readers to write him out of it. However, the information in post 67 above, while it is no longer findable in the site, argues against this. A different speculation is that he has written the ending that the protagonist would find satisfactory, but is only willing to share it with the world on the condition that at least one of his readers (with the timing, time, and motivation to post a review) is able to match thought processes with him and figure out that ending, or a plausible alternative. Given the information posted by Mr. Goob, I consider this more likely.

Neither one of them particularly pleases me, of course. The first suggests that he's a flawed writer, but the second moves him into the category of asshole.

I realize that I have not paid him in anything other than my time and attention, and he owes me nothing. In addition, I am grateful for the enjoyment that I have gotten from the story for free. But if the satisfactory-ending story does not get posted, I will not be recommending this work to my friends.

Anyway, a new chapter of Harry Potter and the Natural 20 posted a new chapter today. I think I'll hop over and see how Milo Amastasia-Liadon is getting on.

Maserschmidt
02-28-2015, 11:17 PM
I am counting on some obsessive college student out there to fix this for us...otherwise I will be pretty pissed about this.

Maserschmidt
02-28-2015, 11:27 PM
Well, I'll say one thing: Reddit is all over this.

Mr. Goob
03-01-2015, 04:17 AM
Certainly is interesting. My opinion is that he put a lot of time and effort into this. No way he doesn't post it all.

He expects a lot from his readers, pounding away chapter after chapter about critical rational thought. Time to see if it took hold.

Mr. Goob
03-01-2015, 04:45 AM
My plot speculations off the top of my head;

-Somewhere in the 34 death eaters I assume is Lucius and Snape.
-for that matter did Bella answer the mark or is she still on the way?
-Hermione is going to wake up. After a WTF moment her lightning fast brain will kick in to help solve the problem. Will or won't she have any memory of the last few weeks? Given the authors view of no afterlife this is a stumper. If she does start talking about an afterlife it will shatter Voldies entire worldview.
-what else is in Harry's pouch, he gave Fred and George a long list of muggle stuff they didn't recognize.
-prophecies. We are up to 3. The original, the half of one where she said the world killer is coming, backed up by the centaur and Voldies new one.
-Harry's skill at partial transformation Voldie does not know about.
-weak idea, the last Deathly Hollow. Dumbly threw down his wand.



Off to read the forums. Please chime in here.

Maserschmidt
03-01-2015, 08:34 AM
I have a feeling that the good professor

is waiting for an answer that relies on rationality, not fireworks.

Fenris
03-01-2015, 12:24 PM
I dislike authors playing this sort of game. Either write the damn story or don't* but don't pretend that you're solving some higher purpose by not writing unless some magic outside condition is met. Gerrold saying that he wasn't going to write the next book in the Cthorr series (after a 15~ year delay unless Obama won a second term) thing springs right to mind.

Can anyone spoiler-box post the brain-teaser/riddle/puzzle? I enjoyed the Methods of Rationality and stopped at a semi-satisfying point and don't feel like reading it further until it's done, but I would like to know the oh-so-important question that he just now had (after a..what..8 month? delay) that's so important that he'll withhold the ending he totally says he wrote.

*Or, I suppose, delay it for the dumb contest if you need to stall for time. Which I suspect is the case.

MaxTheVool
03-01-2015, 05:12 PM
*Or, I suppose, delay it for the dumb contest if you need to stall for time. Which I suspect is the case.

Seems unlikely that he would wait 8 months, then deliver 6 or so consecutive chapters of exciting action, and then stall for time by adding a 2.5-day delay...

The "puzzle" is too complicated to adequately summarize. But all the reading up until now is very satisfying and entertaining, and answers many long-existing mysteries, so I suggest just reading it.

Tabby_Cat
03-01-2015, 06:21 PM
I thought it was a brilliant idea. These days, media is no longer publish and forget, we have twitter, we have forums, we have twitch and the concept of internet streaming. The new paradigm is audience participation, and people seem to be really digging it.

Magiver
03-01-2015, 06:54 PM
Well, I wasn't expecting THAT.


Now WE have to solve Harry's dilemma for him? And it's a tough-y... I wonder if the author actually believes there's a solution?
what am I missing? It's not in his notes but I haven't read past 100.

Mr. Goob
03-02-2015, 09:56 PM
As I see it he wrote the next 7 chapters. He wants to see what we the readers come up with. The cynic in me says he wants to know if we are worthy of being told.

Daydreaming a little I don't see it myself, but I'm not a writer or y'all would be talking about me.:D

I finally went to read the submitted stuff. That board is newest at the bottom. So to read the damn comments in order it's a bunch of bullshit scrolling up and down to get stuff on the page. A stupid stupid system that's aggrivating me more!

MaxTheVool
03-03-2015, 02:18 PM
Well, that was pretty awesome.


I feel like Harry's solution was a BIT of a cheat... I certainly considered partial transfiguration, but had we specifically been told that (a) it could be done silently and wandlessly, and at a fairly great distance, and (b) other wizards, even super-smart-and-powerful-ones, couldn't tell that anything was going on at all?

I mean, fun and satisfying from an action standpoint, but a bit of a letdown from a "Voldemort is a super smart and able foe" standpoint.

Do we know what happened to the Philosopher's Stone? I don't remember Harry grabbing it from Voldy's stuff.

Bricker
03-03-2015, 03:20 PM
Well, that was pretty awesome.


I feel like Harry's solution was a BIT of a cheat... I certainly considered partial transfiguration, but had we specifically been told that (a) it could be done silently and wandlessly, and at a fairly great distance, and (b) other wizards, even super-smart-and-powerful-ones, couldn't tell that anything was going on at all?

I mean, fun and satisfying from an action standpoint, but a bit of a letdown from a "Voldemort is a super smart and able foe" standpoint.

Do we know what happened to the Philosopher's Stone? I don't remember Harry grabbing it from Voldy's stuff.


Yes, Harry got it and put it in his pocket -- he was concerned about what effect it might have on his Pouch.

kaylasdad99
03-03-2015, 03:30 PM
Well, that was pretty awesome.


I feel like Harry's solution was a BIT of a cheat... I certainly considered partial transfiguration, but had we specifically been told that (a) it could be done silently and wandlessly, and at a fairly great distance, and (b) other wizards, even super-smart-and-powerful-ones, couldn't tell that anything was going on at all?

I mean, fun and satisfying from an action standpoint, but a bit of a letdown from a "Voldemort is a super smart and able foe" standpoint.

Do we know what happened to the Philosopher's Stone? I don't remember Harry grabbing it from Voldy's stuff.


Yes, Harry got it and put it in his pocket -- he was concerned about what effect it might have on his Pouch.
What Bricker said. It might have been an easy detail to miss, because the author is calling it The Stone of Permanency, instead of The Philosopher's Stone.And now I wonder what effect it WOULD have had... :D

Mr. Goob
03-03-2015, 04:42 PM
I'm skipping spoiler tags because honestly who is reading this thread that isn't reading the story?



Harry just killed 38 death eaters. Wow. Just wow, was Malfoy one? If so what will that do to Draco?

An inert Voldie to be dealt with later.

Can Dumbledore be relased from the mirror? Dumby suggested Harry had the power.

Left a dead Quirrll looking like a hero, good on Harry.

My huge question is Hermione. a) she has been dead a few weeks, what memory does she have? b) a 12 year old girl cannot be expected to respond well waking up on a slab in a graveyard surrounded by dead bodies. b part 2) it's worse because she has no knowledge of Dumblys theory that Voldy was still alive. This will be another mind blower on top of a blown mind. b part 3) by the way Hermione, you are now as physically invincible as dark magic can make you. Want another piece of chocolate?

Did I miss anything?

MaxTheVool
03-03-2015, 04:54 PM
My huge question is Hermione. a) she has been dead a few weeks, what memory does she have? b) a 12 year old girl cannot be expected to respond well waking up on a slab in a graveyard surrounded by dead bodies. b part 2) it's worse because she has no knowledge of Dumblys theory that Voldy was still alive. This will be another mind blower on top of a blown mind. b part 3) by the way Hermione, you are now as physically invincible as dark magic can make you. Want another piece of chocolate?

Did I miss anything?

I think the way Harry set it up, he wants it to appear to the outside world that Hermione is "The Girl Who Lived". That is, she has foiled Voldemort more or less due to her innate nature even though he had his snake-y hands around her throat. And we know that she's pretty mentally tough.

Not saying it will be something she can just laugh off, but having the entire wizarding world doting on her should help.

Revenant Threshold
03-03-2015, 07:03 PM
Well, that was pretty awesome.


I feel like Harry's solution was a BIT of a cheat... I certainly considered partial transfiguration, but had we specifically been told that (a) it could be done silently and wandlessly, and at a fairly great distance, and (b) other wizards, even super-smart-and-powerful-ones, couldn't tell that anything was going on at all?

I mean, fun and satisfying from an action standpoint, but a bit of a letdown from a "Voldemort is a super smart and able foe" standpoint.

Do we know what happened to the Philosopher's Stone? I don't remember Harry grabbing it from Voldy's stuff.
I have to go with big cheat, in all honesty. I don't see any reason why Voldemort wouldn't have thought of the method Harry ends up using, and so far as I can tell that even stopping him is still contingent on Harry guessing what the resonance will do based on evidence that suggests something else should have happened entirely.

And Voldemort letting Harry keep his wand and his pouch, which serves no useful purpose and has the potential for... well, doing what he did. Or not just shooting Harry at any point. Or tricking Harry into revealing what he planned to do without actually having his wand.

At least canon Voldemort had a purpose in his stupidity. Unless there's some hidden agenda still at play, MoRVoldemort seems to have reason to act other than he does if not for the purposes of a happy ending.

TonySinclair
03-03-2015, 07:23 PM
I have to go with big cheat, in all honesty. I don't see any reason why Voldemort wouldn't have thought of the method Harry ends up using...

Especially since he's the one who had just told Harry it was possible to do that without his wand. That stood out to me even at the time as something crucial, and when I got to the author's exam, I would have bet the farm it was how Harry would get out of his predicament.

Maserschmidt
03-04-2015, 06:46 PM
I expected it was going to be much more clever than that...that actually kind of sucked.

Greg Charles
03-04-2015, 08:49 PM
If there was a cheat there, it was Harry having such fine control of the transfigured substance. Voldemort was unaware of Harry's ability to do partial transformations (in this case of the tip of his wand) and he didn't have enough background in physics to intuit it.

What's Vinge's Principle, by the way? Google isn't turning up much beyond this challenge itself. I wonder if it comes from the work of Vernor Vinge, my old professor.

MaxTheVool
03-05-2015, 11:45 AM
I expected it was going to be much more clever than that...that actually kind of sucked.

It was fun and satisfying from an action-scene-catharsis point of view.

But it's pretty scary from a character balance point of view. Harry, or anyone who learns partial transfiguration, can silently and with no wand just transfigure a pinhead-sized part of anyone's brain into antimatter anytime he wants to from a distance? That doesn't seem good as far as a healthy and functioning Wizarding society is concerned.

Fenris
03-05-2015, 11:53 AM
Seems unlikely that he would wait 8 months, then deliver 6 or so consecutive chapters of exciting action, and then stall for time by adding a 2.5-day delay...

The "puzzle" is too complicated to adequately summarize. But all the reading up until now is very satisfying and entertaining, and answers many long-existing mysteries, so I suggest just reading it.

I did--you and others who said to just read it were right and I was wrong.

It was a good puzzle.

Greg Charles
03-05-2015, 12:39 PM
It was fun and satisfying from an action-scene-catharsis point of view.

But it's pretty scary from a character balance point of view. Harry, or anyone who learns partial transfiguration, can silently and with no wand just transfigure a pinhead-sized part of anyone's brain into antimatter anytime he wants to from a distance? That doesn't seem good as far as a healthy and functioning Wizarding society is concerned.

Transfiguration takes physical contact with the wand, and air cannot be transformed. The author made it pretty clear that even Harry's partial transformations had to follow that rule. He can't transfigure things at a distance and he does need his wand in order to perform a transfiguration. He doesn't, for some reason, need his wand to sustain or dispel the transfiguration.

As far as a functioning Wizarding society, the "Hermione" incident spoke to that. If one wizard can take control of another, erase old memories, and implant new ones, how can anyone be held accountable for their actions? How can they even be sure themselves what they've done?

Magiver
03-11-2015, 11:25 PM
I have to go with big cheat, in all honesty. I don't see any reason why Voldemort wouldn't have thought of the method Harry ends up using, and so far as I can tell that even stopping him is still contingent on Harry guessing what the resonance will do based on evidence that suggests something else should have happened entirely.

And Voldemort letting Harry keep his wand and his pouch, which serves no useful purpose and has the potential for... well, doing what he did. Or not just shooting Harry at any point. Or tricking Harry into revealing what he planned to do without actually having his wand.

At least canon Voldemort had a purpose in his stupidity. Unless there's some hidden agenda still at play, MoRVoldemort seems to have reason to act other than he does if not for the purposes of a happy ending. I don't see it as a cheat. The problem with magic is that power is based on time. The longer you live the more skills you acquire and the more powerful you get. The multiplier of this is intelligence. The truly great wizards learn skills like every other wizard but can conceive of new ways off using it.

Harry is highly intelligent and has the benefit of 2 lines of knowledge, Muggle and Magical. He leveraged it all to rise quickly.

kaylasdad99
03-13-2015, 09:04 PM
Welp. After the episode of 03/10 the author tells us that the next long chapter will be the finale this Saturday, and to hold off on reading the Thursday and Friday chapters until then if we don't care for short chapters.

As for me, I decided to read them both today, and let the finale stand on its own. I'm very much looking forward to it, and happy to know that it's going to post so early. I guess I won't initiate any discussion of the events that take place in the chapters I read today, beyond saying that I have mixed feelings about the ending of 120, and a good feeling about the ending of 121.

Also, I recently had another look at chapter 1. Is there a NEW epigraph there about the tiny fragment of silver glinting in the moonlight, or was that there at the start a few years ago?

(Also also: bump :D)

MaxTheVool
03-14-2015, 11:42 AM
And... its all over. Very satisfying, although I was kind of expecting one last awesome twist at the end or something. Hermione now being a magical superhero with a bazooka should be pretty cool.

Mahaloth
03-14-2015, 12:30 PM
So, it has actually ended? Perhaps I'll pick it up and read it. Can you buy it as an ebook? Or download it free?

kaylasdad99
03-14-2015, 01:48 PM
Completely over. Guaranteed by the author that he will write no sequel.

I don't know anything about getting it as an ebook. But it is free to read at the fanfiction site. It might be available to download at hpmor.com

Maserschmidt
03-14-2015, 04:03 PM
I did not enjoy the Voldemort resolution, but I did very much enjoy the chapters that followed. It was a very fulfilling wrap-up.

MaxTheVool
03-14-2015, 04:37 PM
Something that seems like it was never wrapped up... at one point earlier, there was a discussion of how new spells are researched, and one of the professors insisted that no one ever answer Harry's questions about that.

Did we get any specific information about why?

TonySinclair
03-14-2015, 06:57 PM
And... its all over. Very satisfying, although I was kind of expecting one last awesome twist at the end or something. Hermione now being a magical superhero with a bazooka should be pretty cool.

I liked it much better than any of Rowling's books. But to be fair, she did most of the world-building.

Magiver
03-15-2015, 01:56 AM
Completely over. Guaranteed by the author that he will write no sequel.
except that he said he would eventually write an epilogue and maybe some side stories.

chorpler
03-21-2015, 09:05 AM
I just re-read the whole story, and went through the ending again. Was it obvious to everybody else who "Mr. White" and "Mr. Grim" were? I just now realized that they were Lucius and Sirius; somehow on the first read-through of the last few chapters, I completely missed the part where he explicitly told Draco that "Mr. White" was Lucius.

BrainGlutton
03-22-2015, 12:47 PM
Is anybody else reading this? I'm about 8 chapters in and finding it highly amusing (and probably the most well written Harry Potter fanfic I've seen). It's very long and definitely not for everybody, but if you like HP and think you'd like an alternate-universe fanfic that pokes gentle (and very funny) holes in some of the inconsistencies of the originals, check it out!

Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/1/Harry_Potter_and_the_Methods_of_Rationality)

Thank you. Thank you.

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