PDA

View Full Version : Battlestar galactica sucks


Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 09:29 AM
There's like 30,000 main characters that I'm supposed to give a crap about. It's too many! The first episode, we see the butch girl playing cards and I'm like "awesome, she's so cool. I can't wait to watch her do stuff." Then, we're introduced to the seductive girl, long haired guy, the black girl, breast cancer woman, breast cancer woman's assistant, possibly-Hispanic man, Asian girl, white pilot, white mechanic, etc. I refer to these people like this because I have no idea what their names are. There's just too many of them.

At the end of the second episode we learn the Asian girl is a cylon spy. If I don't even know her name, I'm not going to give a fuck. And it isn't my fault I have no idea who these people are. There's just too many of them.

I'm also not going to watch any show with wooshing space ships. If a space ship must make a noise and the director wouldn't have it any other way, it's gotta make a sufficiently sciencey noise, like a TIE fighter. I'm not going to listen to bombs going BOOM, but I can stand a seismic charge going BWAAAAAANG.

If you like this show you should feel bad.

Great Antibob
04-25-2011, 09:37 AM
I'm not a fan of the show either.

BUT, that doesn't mean I feel it necessary to dump all over it or dump on the fans.

There are lots of people who obviously enjoyed the program. They aren't forcing you to watch or forcing you to get involved in discussions about the show. And it's not like there's any widespread advertising for the show, now that it's over.

I despise all those manufactured Disney teen idols, but I don't waste my time venting about it.

silenus
04-25-2011, 09:39 AM
If you like this show you should feel bad.

Or not. Somehow Life will go on despite your condemnation and scorn.

HenryGale
04-25-2011, 09:45 AM
And it isn't my fault I have no idea who these people are. There's just too many of them.

How does the fact that plenty of viewers did understand who those people were, after exactly the same amount of viewing time you've had, figure into this hypothesis?

MsWhatsit
04-25-2011, 09:52 AM
I had the same problem after watching episode 1. It turns out you are actually supposed to start with the "miniseries" episodes, which are the real introduction to the series. IMO without seeing the miniseries first, episode 1 doesn't make much sense.

IvoryTowerDenizen
04-25-2011, 09:54 AM
I will now proceed to begin feeling bad, as I loved the show and had no problem following along.

Feeling bad commencing in

5...4...3...2..........

TriPolar
04-25-2011, 09:55 AM
Grass is green. The sky is blue. The title of this thread.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 10:00 AM
How does the fact that plenty of viewers did understand who those people were, after exactly the same amount of viewing time you've had, figure into this hypothesis?

Not without a pen, notepad and multiple viewings. Looking here (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Portal:Battlestar_Galactica_%28RDM%29), there's like thirteen characters within two episodes, most of which never have anything to do with each other. I know who they are supposed to be: black pilot, butch girl, English scientist- I just don't give a fuck because they are like strangers on Google street view.

Snowboarder Bo
04-25-2011, 10:03 AM
I bought the first season on DVD because I had a number of people tell me it was terrific, I'd like it, etc., including threads on this board about the show.

I made it through 3 episodes (I think). This show sucked. The totality of the stupid is so great, every individual thing about it can be described as "dumb as hell".

I paid like $30 for the DVD set and I think I got $5 for it at Zia. It was a painful lesson, but one that took: now I have Netflix.

Implicit
04-25-2011, 10:05 AM
It's a series, you aren't supposed to know everything about every character the first episode.

For a show that explains everything in a single episode, I'd recommend you watch Blue's Clues.

Alessan
04-25-2011, 10:07 AM
I don't feel bad. Actually, the fact that some idiot doesn't like the show makes me feel a lot better about myself.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 10:11 AM
I will now proceed to begin feeling bad, as I loved the show and had no problem following along.

Feeling bad commencing in

5...4...3...2..........

You'll feel better once you do, as the show really does blow.

I can follow along just fine. It's just so scattered that I don't give a crap. I actually like the overarching story about humanity on the brink trying to find mythical Earth. However, every episode is an ADD fest.

Hello Again
04-25-2011, 10:13 AM
"Lost" has 14 main characters introduced in the first episode. Then more come along in later seasons. I wouldn't tire your pretty little head over that either.

"I didn't like it" is a complete thought. It's ok. You're allowed to not like some things that are widely popular. However, your justification that there are "too many characters" is beyond stupid. Most serial dramas have many characters.

IvoryTowerDenizen
04-25-2011, 10:14 AM
You'll feel better once you do, as the show really does blow.


Well, of the two of us I'm the one who watched it the whole series, so I think I'll stick with my opinion of liking it. But I promise to feel bad about every 33 minutes for a while if that will make you happy.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 10:16 AM
It's a series, you aren't supposed to know everything about every character the first episode.

For a show that explains everything in a single episode, I'd recommend you watch Blue's Clues.

Like in Firefly, I had no idea who anybody was at first but I knew they all had something to do with each other. Stuff like talking to each other, sitting in the same room, being effected by common circumstances makes it coherent.

This thread needs more people trashing BSG and less people defending it, because I want to win but I got shit to do.

silenus
04-25-2011, 10:19 AM
Too bad you'll never make it to the ending, which actually does suck.

I guess anything with more characters than Waiting For Godot is beyond some people.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 10:25 AM
There's too many characters because none of them have anything to do with each other except in the broadest terms. Like, broader than they happen to be on the same ship (of 50,000 people), but more like they happen to be part of the same species. That's enough to earn you a primary character slot in this scatter brained show- being a human.

I don't hear anybody trying to defend the wooshing noises. Maybe because you know you can't.

Alessan
04-25-2011, 10:44 AM
Are we even talking about the same show?

First of all, plenty of the characters have pre-existing relationships: the commander, his best friends and XO, his son, his son't best friend... that's half the cast right there.

Second of all, the characters who don't have pre-existing relationships develop relationships as the show goes on. I know you're not familiar with the concept of "drama", but just so you know, a large amount of it is watching character relationships develop and evolve. I mean, I've even read stories where none of the characters knew each other at the beginning, but by the end, some of them were even friends! How wild is that?

Lightray
04-25-2011, 10:48 AM
Complaining about noises in space for sci-fi is, at this point, tilting at a windmill that even Don Quixote would recognize as not being a giant.

Furthermore, if you cannot keep track of a dozen characters that can easily be reduced to simple stereotypes (which, in your description, you clearly have done)... you need to watch programming for younger viewers.

Much younger viewers. Much, much, much younger. My 3yo niece can keep track of well over a dozen My Little Ponies in "Friendship Is Magic", so you've really got quite a ways down to go.

... Perhaps there's a "Pong" show. No whooshing noises, at least.

Lemur866
04-25-2011, 10:56 AM
I will now proceed to begin feeling bad, as I loved the show and had no problem following along.

Feeling bad commencing in

5...4...3...2..........

Set condition "Feel Bad" throughout the fleet!

Chimera
04-25-2011, 10:59 AM
There are a lot of shows I think suck. but I don't waste my time watching them or whining about them on message boards.

There are a lot of things in life in general that we as people will dislike. Again, there's no point in dwelling on them or filling ourselves with outrage over them. Especially if by ignoring them, they will effectively go away.

Biffy the Elephant Shrew
04-25-2011, 11:00 AM
I don't hear anybody trying to defend the wooshing noises. Maybe because you know you can't.

Buddy, the only whooshing I hear ain't part of the show.

Tapioca Dextrin
04-25-2011, 11:42 AM
I like watching Scooby Doo, but sometimes have trouble telling the fat chick from the hippy dude. Should I watch BSG?

Bridget Burke
04-25-2011, 11:56 AM
Starting in June, BBCamerica will be showing Battleship Galactica (http://blogs.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2011/04/21/battlestar-galactica-is-bbc-america-bound/)!

(If the OP wants something easy, perhaps he should watch Game of Thrones.)

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 12:43 PM
Whoa holy shit. Out of every thread that's ever provoked a holy shit response, this is the holy shittiest of them all. You all oughta be ashamed for not only liking this show, but defending it. I bet you all liked Ender's Game too *derisive snort*

Clarifying: I do not think BSG is confusing

I am not confused by this show.
This show is not confusing
If I could use flashing sparkly text to explain to you people that I'm not whining about how confusing the show is, I would.

BSG is like diarrhea that gets sprayed in the bowl, on the tank, on the seat, on the floor and on the heel of your shoes. It takes a dozen or so slightly developed characters (if you count stapling them with stereotypes like "the plucky pilot" as character development) and shits them out across a solar system, each to wallow in their own independent retardation. Meanwhile, all this fucked up stuff concerning the end of humanity is going on, stuff that I actually want to see the story address, but I'm supposed to be caring about why some navigator chick we've only see talk to one other person is now making out with a dude she's only seen once and we've only seen talk to one other person.

I'm capable of understanding that the butch girl, or stereotypical ace fighter, has to contend with some grudge against a commander, has to contend with the return of a former lover, has to contend with being caught at starting trouble while having to fly several harrowing missions in the same episode. But I'm not able to care about all that shit plus similar amounts of convolution for each of the main characters.

I didn't start this thread to defend my position. Ideally me and people who didn't like BSG would bash it while the fans sat back and took it. You people need to feel worse.

IvoryTowerDenizen
04-25-2011, 12:46 PM
I didn't start this thread to defend my position. Ideally me and people who didn't like BSG would bash it while the fans sat back and took it. You people need to feel worse.

I'm really trying to feel worse. I am. Damn, now I feel bad that I'm not feeling worse.

:shakes fist: Damn you Walmarticus!

MsWhatsit
04-25-2011, 12:50 PM
I am not confused by this show.
This show is not confusing
If I could use flashing sparkly text to explain to you people that I'm not whining about how confusing the show is, I would.

No flashing sparkly text necessary. All that is necessary is to not whine about how confusing the show is.

Just trying to help you out, dude.

Rex Goliath
04-25-2011, 12:56 PM
You think it's bad now? By the end of the series the the same actors/actresses are playing multiple copies of the exact same character, each with their own backstory and feelings and goals.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 12:57 PM
No flashing sparkly text necessary. All that is necessary is to not whine about how confusing the show is.

Just trying to help you out, dude.

I never said the show is confusing. It's convoluted and terribly disjointed. The characters are confusing, in a why-the-fuck-would-they-do-that sense and not in a who-the-fuck-is-that sense.

Alessan
04-25-2011, 01:04 PM
Whoa holy shit. Out of every thread that's ever provoked a holy shit response, this is the holy shittiest of them all. You all oughta be ashamed for not only liking this show, but defending it. I bet you all liked Ender's Game too *derisive snort*


I see. So your problem is that you just don't like science fiction.

Lemur866
04-25-2011, 01:08 PM
Wow, and you learned the show sucks after watching two whole episodes?

You know what I do about shows I don't like? I don't watch them. And when people get on the internet to talk about those shows I don't like? I don't participate.

So I can only think of one or two reasons to start a thread about how much a particular show sucked and how people who enjoyed the show suck.

MovieMogul
04-25-2011, 01:11 PM
I never said the show is confusing. It's convoluted and terribly disjointed. The characters are confusing, in a why-the-fuck-would-they-do-that sense and not in a who-the-fuck-is-that sense.Sounds like the original BG is more your speed. Plus, it had that guy from Bonanza!.

KneadToKnow
04-25-2011, 01:12 PM
Set condition "Feel Bad" throughout the fleet!

This line made me laugh before, this line will make me laugh again.

The Tooth
04-25-2011, 01:20 PM
I've been watching a few archived episodes lately. Scar, Exodus, the episodes with the Pegasus. I'm pretty sure the OP's wrong, and that Battlestar Galactica does not suck.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 01:30 PM
Wow, and you learned the show sucks after watching two whole episodes?

You know what I do about shows I don't like? I don't watch them. And when people get on the internet to talk about those shows I don't like? I don't participate.

So I can only think of one or two reasons to start a thread about how much a particular show sucked and how people who enjoyed the show suck.

Two episodes is a couple hours. Not too long, but long enough to know that if real characters haven't appeared, it's pretty hopeless. And, If you didn't want to hear criticism, you shouldn't have participated in my thread, titled as such.

The show also sucks because I immediately fell madly in love with the butch girl and she didn't play a prominent enough part.

BigT
04-25-2011, 01:36 PM
They probably came in expecting legitimate criticism. Plus, this is the Dope. You ahve to be able to make fun of someone for having what you consider a dumb reaction.

IvoryTowerDenizen
04-25-2011, 01:36 PM
Serious reply: BSG is an epic saga type of show. Much is introduced initially to give you the feel and scope of the universe you have just entered into. It's meant to be somewhat chaotic and disjointed initially, as many of these people were thrown together in just that chaotic and disjointed manner.

Over time threads are more fully developed and intersect in unexpected ways. Story lines creep up and fall behind and individual stories are developed. The beginning is meant to pique your tastebuds, so you care a bit about these characters as the plot moves along.

It may not be your cup of tea, no worries. But it is purposeful and stylistically planned, not a mistake.

bobkitty
04-25-2011, 01:39 PM
The show also sucks because I immediately fell madly in love with the butch girl and she didn't play a prominent enough part.

STARBUCK doesn't play a prominent enough part??!? Wow. Yeah, give up now.

billfish678
04-25-2011, 01:39 PM
,The show also sucks because I immediately fell madly in love with the butch girl and she didn't play a prominent enough part.

Yeah, don't watch the rest of the series. She just fades away, never really doing anything interesting. DO NOT WASTE any more of your time watching this horrible show.

bobkitty
04-25-2011, 01:42 PM
:p , Bill. :D

casdave
04-25-2011, 01:43 PM
I saw a few episodes, it sucked.

You keep asking, why did they do this, why not do that?

The main protagonists seem to make arbitary decisions, whose outcomes are hardly worse than the outcomes they are attempting to prevent. There is no moralising about certain acts which would prove controversial in any society, and above all, just a sheer lakc of logic throughout.

I can't understand why any of those being protected would follow a commander or a system that treats them pretty much as disposable, what is the point of having a military arm if the only objective is to secure only the survival of the military arm? rather than the survival of the society that created it?

AndyPolley
04-25-2011, 01:49 PM
I can't understand why any of those being protected would follow a commander or a system that treats them pretty much as disposable, what is the point of having a military arm if the only objective is to secure only the survival of the military arm? rather than the survival of the society that created it?

Assuming you are not whooshing us...Real answer: What are the other options? Besides, the objective seems to be keeping humans as a species alive. Also, it's a question that's addressed in the Pegasus episodes where you see another Battlestar survived and had a different opinion about the worth of their civilian fleet.

As for the op: Best thread on the subject yet.

Hello Again
04-25-2011, 01:52 PM
I can't understand why any of those being protected would follow a commander or a system that treats them pretty much as disposable, what is the point of having a military arm if the only objective is to secure only the survival of the military arm? rather than the survival of the society that created it?

Assuming you are not wooshing us, this is the major theme of the entire series.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 02:10 PM
STARBUCK doesn't play a prominent enough part??!? Wow. Yeah, give up now.

I got maybe five minutes of Starbuck and almost two hours of waiting around for Starbuck. Totally not worth it IMO. It would have to be at least 1/4 Starbuck for me to not be parched all the time.

Serious reply: BSG is an epic saga type of show. Much is introduced initially to give you the feel and scope of the universe you have just entered into. It's meant to be somewhat chaotic and disjointed initially, as many of these people were thrown together in just that chaotic and disjointed manner.

Over time threads are more fully developed and intersect in unexpected ways. Story lines creep up and fall behind and individual stories are developed. The beginning is meant to pique your tastebuds, so you care a bit about these characters as the plot moves along.

It may not be your cup of tea, no worries. But it is purposeful and stylistically planned, not a mistake.

I can understand that the species is ending and everybody is freaking out. We don't have time for characterization because we are supposed to be panicked. So then put a hold on the piddly boyfriend/girlfriend bullshit and back stories until the plot has cooled off and we have time for side plots. It's just a non stop orgy of plots, side plots and back stories.

I can't believe I have to convince you people that you should feel bad and that you didn't already know it. And that you are fighting me not to!

Lightray
04-25-2011, 02:18 PM
Yeah. See, the problem isn't that the OP thinks that BSG sucks. Lots of people have thought that BSG sucks in just about every thread on BSG that's been on the Dope. That got arguments (lots of 'em), but not so much mocking.

The problem is that the OP's criticism sucks. Hence, the mocking.

Lemur866
04-25-2011, 02:19 PM
I saw a few episodes, it sucked.

You keep asking, why did they do this, why not do that?

The main protagonists seem to make arbitary decisions, whose outcomes are hardly worse than the outcomes they are attempting to prevent. There is no moralising about certain acts which would prove controversial in any society, and above all, just a sheer lakc of logic throughout.

I can't understand why any of those being protected would follow a commander or a system that treats them pretty much as disposable, what is the point of having a military arm if the only objective is to secure only the survival of the military arm? rather than the survival of the society that created it?

Exactly. You've now understood the point of the show.

Biffy the Elephant Shrew
04-25-2011, 02:28 PM
I guess anything with more characters than Waiting For Godot is beyond some people.

I got maybe five minutes of Starbuck and almost two hours of waiting around for Starbuck.

TIGH: Nothing to be done.
ADAMA: I'm beginning to come round to that opinion. All my life I've tried to put it from me, saying Bill, be reasonable, you haven't yet tried everything. And I resumed the struggle. So there you are again.
TIGH: Am I?
ADAMA: I'm glad to see you back. I thought you were gone forever.
TIGH: Frack off.

Oakminster
04-25-2011, 02:33 PM
If you think BSG is confusing and difficult to follow, then you prolly don't wanna try Babylon 5 either.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 02:36 PM
Yeah. See, the problem isn't that the OP thinks that BSG sucks. Lots of people have thought that BSG sucks in just about every thread on BSG that's been on the Dope. That got arguments (lots of 'em), but not so much mocking.

The problem is that the OP's criticism sucks. Hence, the mocking.

wtf? My criticism is fine. The characters don't make sense. They'd probably make more sense if the story wasn't so disjointed or there weren't so many of them. I can't care about that much shit at once- I'd implode.

Mock me because I think BSG fans should feel dirty and ashamed, not because you don't agree with my criticism.

TIGH: Nothing to be done.
ADAMA: I'm beginning to come round to that opinion. All my life I've tried to put it from me, saying Bill, be reasonable, you haven't yet tried everything. And I resumed the struggle. So there you are again.
TIGH: Am I?
ADAMA: I'm glad to see you back. I thought you were gone forever.
TIGH: Frack off.

ooooooooooooh, I get it now.

If you think BSG is confusing and difficult to follow, then you prolly don't wanna try Babylon 5 either.


Clarifying: I do not think BSG is confusing

I am not confused by this show.
This show is not confusing
If I could use flashing sparkly text to explain to you people that I'm not whining about how confusing the show is, I would.

Can we say derp derp derp in the Cafe Society?

IvoryTowerDenizen
04-25-2011, 02:52 PM
I guess what's puzzling mr is why on earth you'd expect so much to be resolved by the end of episode 2? I think your expectations might be out of line with the epic saga scope of the show.

Darth Sensitive
04-25-2011, 03:08 PM
If you'd bothered to watch the miniseries you'd probably have a better handle on the characters.

Lightray
04-25-2011, 03:15 PM
wtf? My criticism is fine. The characters don't make sense. They'd probably make more sense if the story wasn't so disjointed or there weren't so many of them. I can't care about that much shit at once- I'd implode.

Mock me because I think BSG fans should feel dirty and ashamed, not because you don't agree with my criticism.
No. Your criticism is sad pants. You're complaining that you can't keep track of the characters... when you apparently haven't watched the miniseries in which they were all introduced. And you're complaining that there's too many characters... a whole dozen.

Good criticism complains about the flaws of the show. The flaws you are complaining about, are your flaws.

BSG fans should not feel ashamed because people who have difficulty keeping track of twelve things start watching the show already in progress and can't understand what is going on. BSG fans should, instead, mock the people who can't keep track of twelve things or start watching at the beginning.

Left Hand of Dorkness
04-25-2011, 03:37 PM
This line made me laugh before, this line will make me laugh again.So say we all.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 03:45 PM
No. Your criticism is sad pants. You're complaining that you can't keep track of the characters... when you apparently haven't watched the miniseries in which they were all introduced. And you're complaining that there's too many characters... a whole dozen.

Good criticism complains about the flaws of the show. The flaws you are complaining about, are your flaws.

BSG fans should not feel ashamed because people who have difficulty keeping track of twelve things start watching the show already in progress and can't understand what is going on. BSG fans should, instead, mock the people who can't keep track of twelve things or start watching at the beginning.

I'm going to wet my pants and have a tantrum if I have to keep repeating that I understand the show.

MsWhatsit
04-25-2011, 03:47 PM
I'm going to wet my pants and have a tantrum if I have to keep repeating that I understand the show.

Pics or it didn't happen.

Anaamika
04-25-2011, 03:48 PM
What a jerky thread. Hell, I didn't like BSG, and I legitimately defended my complaints and you know what? people didn't mock me. Instead, they suggested other shows I might like better.

If you don't like it, you don't like it. Who is making you watch it? Badmouthing the fans and calling them stupid is rude however. Everybody likes different stuff.

Ludovic
04-25-2011, 03:49 PM
Why should fans think the show sucks when the real problem is that the OP doesn't understand the show?

IvoryTowerDenizen
04-25-2011, 03:50 PM
Why should fans think the show sucks when the real problem is that the OP doesn't understand the show?

Yeah, if he'd only listen to us explain it, he'd understand it so much better.

Intergalactic Gladiator
04-25-2011, 03:54 PM
I'm not going to say BSG sucks, but I did have a difficult time enjoying the show. Humanity is on the verge of extinction and they spend more time fighting amongst themselves than actually fighting the Cylcon threat. You can argue all you want about how it's the antithesis of the "hey everything is all right" or "humanity trumps all" type science fiction that's out there already, but I think they cranked it up to 11 when dialing it back a step or two would have been fine.

I've even put off watching Season 4.5 exactly because I don't want to watch when everything totally comes off the rails. Everyone defending this show right now, don't forget that the final episode was blasted by a lot of people here for what the writers did at the end with the human survivors and the Galactica itself.

BSG has nice effects and really good acting in it, but I still found it very frustrating at times.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 04:21 PM
Yeah, if he'd only listen to us explain it, he'd understand it so much better.

I understand this show so thoroughly that you should be asking me to explain it to you.

We need more Cafe Society threads talking about things when they suck. They are much more fun.

IvoryTowerDenizen
04-25-2011, 04:24 PM
I understand this show so thoroughly that you should be asking me to explain it to you.

Except for the multitude of episodes you haven't actually seen, right?

;)

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 04:26 PM
Except for the multitude of episodes you haven't actually seen, right?

;)
naturally

Biffy the Elephant Shrew
04-25-2011, 04:45 PM
Humanity is on the verge of extinction and they spend more time fighting amongst themselves than actually fighting the Cylcon threat.

Apart from the word "Cylon," this is different from real life how?

AncientHumanoid
04-25-2011, 05:03 PM
strangers on Google street view.

One of the best Hitchcocks ever.

Wakinyan
04-25-2011, 05:36 PM
My brother had the DVD box and asked me several times if I wanted to borrow it, but since I never liked science fiction very much, it took awhile before I put it on. In twenty minutes, I went, wow, this is really good drama and I was very excited in an un-Wakinyan way to follow a tv series. I just needed to know where this story went.

However, three things makes a thumbs down for me:

1) The writers throw out a lot of interesting questions, but then just leave them in the bin; for instance, the opening scene of the miniseries: "Are you alive?" It really sparked my interest, but after watching all the seasons, I must conclude that the writers just threw that out without other thought than having a cool opening scene. I simply feel like someone fooled me, robbed me of my time. There are several hints and hooks like this which turns out to be nothing, just left behind.

2) Some episodes are unbearably bad writing. ("Scar" episode is one I remember.) Not only does this series which generally is very well done suddenly become very poorly done (I quit watching it for a couple of episodes it was so bad, but then my wife said its gotten back to standard I started watching again), but these particual episodes also destroys the internal logic of the series. They build up a world you believe in with characters you believe in, and then in an episode just tears it all down, and then -- like the point 1 above -- just keep going as it didn't happen (this happens in two or three seasons). It is like they needed to fill the season with two episodes more but didn't know what the heck they should write and asked a bloke at the buss station to do it for them, and then get back to business.

3) The ending sucks very hard, more or less due the last episodes being largely a combination of the two above.

I feel so let down by Battlestar Galactica, that now I will have a glass of wine and cry a little. Bastards.

Mahaloth
04-25-2011, 07:35 PM
I've posted about these kinds of posts before.

I don't get it. If I was going to post about something like this(popular on the SDMB but that I didn't like), I would post

"What am I missing? I just don't seem to get......"

and then hope to listen to others about what I missed.

I'll give an example, which I've talked about before. I know that Discworld is popular here and I so deeply trust the Dopers' opinion, I know I'm missing something. I've tried two times to get into those books and apparently both times, I chose the wrong books(Mort and Colour of Magic).

Now, I have not posted a thread "Discworld sucks" and I won't. Instead, I have thought about posting "Explain Discworld to me and help me get into it."

I mean, what do you hope to gain by posting just a pure "this sucks" thread? Instead, next time, I suggest you post more like "Wow, I did not enjoy BSG. Am I wrong and if so, how?" and see what you get.

amanset
04-25-2011, 07:51 PM
Wow, and you learned the show sucks after watching two whole episodes?


I have never seen a single episode of Top Gear, but I am fairly confident in saying that that I am absolutely correct in knowing that it is shit.

Sometimes you just know stuff.

Zebra
04-25-2011, 07:54 PM
I feel the series started very well but then became a mostly descending roller coaster.


The biggest problem is that they write on the opening screen of every episode about the Cylons "and they have a plan" but the writers/producers had no grand plan for the Cylons.

enalzi
04-25-2011, 07:55 PM
I have never seen a single episode of Top Gear, but I am fairly confident in saying that that I am absolutely correct in knowing that it is shit.

Sometimes you just know stuff.

You're just confused.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 08:06 PM
I feel the series started very well but then became a mostly descending roller coaster.

I knew in like the first second that Starbuck was the greatest character ever created. When the camera cut to something that wasn't her face it was all downhill from there.

I mean, what do you hope to gain by posting just a pure "this sucks" thread? Instead, next time, I suggest you post more like "Wow, I did not enjoy BSG. Am I wrong and if so, how?" and see what you get.

There is no possibility of offending the fine gentlemen here because I trashed a show they like. Nothing to lose and the only thing to gain is the fun of talking trash- because gentlemen enjoy talking trash, I guess. I dunno.

Mahaloth
04-25-2011, 08:20 PM
.... the only thing to gain is the fun of talking trash- because gentlemen enjoy talking trash, I guess. I dunno.

Exactly. I think this summary describes your post exactly. Ya' dunno.

:dubious:

The Tooth
04-25-2011, 08:23 PM
If you don't like it, don't watch it. I don't understand Ensemble Overload, though. I thought it was pretty clear who's who. Oh well, your loss.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 08:30 PM
If you don't like it, don't watch it. I don't understand Ensemble Overload, though. I thought it was pretty clear who's who. Oh well, your loss.

The problem is that it has a large cast but it's not an ensemble at all. I don't give a fuck how many people it has as long as they compliment each other and they don't just exist in their own little bubbles. If they can't coherently write the story to make them all part of the same thing then reduce the number of characters to reduce the jumblefuck.

Biffy the Elephant Shrew
04-25-2011, 08:43 PM
I don't give a fuck how many people it has as long as they compliment each other

Well, that would be polite.

billfish678
04-25-2011, 08:45 PM
Watch the whole series and realize you are wronger than Dolly Parton with a one meter penis...we win....

Watch the whole series and realize you were right and still bitch and moan about how it sucks...we still win...

The Tooth
04-25-2011, 08:47 PM
The problem is that it has a large cast but it's not an ensemble at all. I don't give a fuck how many people it has as long as they compliment each other and they don't just exist in their own little bubbles. If they can't coherently write the story to make them all part of the same thing then reduce the number of characters to reduce the jumblefuck.

It's not incoherent. I don't know what you're talking about.

Mahaloth
04-25-2011, 09:01 PM
I have to say, I never found this show difficult to follow at all(assuming you watch the episodes in order). I mean, it's way less complicated and involved than Babylon 5 or X-files(both of which I followed with minimal problem too).

Dude, Lost is more complicated than BSG.

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 09:07 PM
I have to say, I never found this show difficult to follow at all(assuming you watch the episodes in order). I mean, it's way less complicated and involved than Babylon 5 or X-files(both of which I followed with minimal problem too).

Dude, Lost is more complicated than BSG.

X-files actually is kind of complicated, I've rediscovered, because it slips in those stand alone episodes that aren't part of the ongoing story. It's easy to forget what happened the episode before last, unless you have Netflix and watch them, plus the movie, in the same weekend like I did. Shit was awesome. AWESOME.

The Conqueror Worm
04-25-2011, 10:22 PM
I think Walmarticus has watched more of the series that (s)he is revealing. The mini-series and the first couple of episodes were the highlight of the series. They built up huge expectation and anticipation of what was to come in the following episodes. It was how they resolved and concluded the show that was the real problem.

Walster... if you really hated the first couple of episodes, stop now, run, do not walk away from the rest of them. Find another distraction. If you post in another 2, 3 weeks (or months) about how crappy you think the entire run was you are nothing but a putz.

Chronos
04-25-2011, 10:29 PM
Am I the only one who realizes that Walmarticus is whooshing everyone? I mean, nobody ever says something like "I knew in like the first second that Starbuck was the greatest character ever created. When the camera cut to something that wasn't her face it was all downhill from there." about something they actually don't like.

MsWhatsit
04-25-2011, 10:32 PM
I don't give a fuck how many people it has as long as they compliment each other and they don't just exist in their own little bubbles.

I think you're on to something here. The way I envision this going is something like this:

STARBUCK
You're looking really good today, Lee.

LEE ADAMA
Hey, you too, Starbuck. I especially like your shirt.

STARBUCK
Thanks!

CMDR. ADAMA
[enters the bridge]
Have I told you guys lately how much I really just appreciate your insight on life?

STARBUCK and LEE ADAMA
Thanks, sir!

BALTAR
Starbuck, has anyone told you how great your shirt looks today?

STARBUCK
Yes, but coming from you, it means so much more.

BALTAR
Really?

STARBUCK
Totally.

BALTAR
I love you guys.

CYLON
It's true, you guys have the best Battlestar. That's why we saved it for last.

EVERYONE
Aww!

[FADE OUT on EVERYONE singing "I'd Like To Buy the World a Coke"]

Walmarticus
04-25-2011, 10:52 PM
I think Walmarticus has watched more of the series that (s)he is revealing. The mini-series and the first couple of episodes were the highlight of the series. They built up huge expectation and anticipation of what was to come in the following episodes. It was how they resolved and concluded the show that was the real problem.

Walster... if you really hated the first couple of episodes, stop now, run, do not walk away from the rest of them. Find another distraction. If you post in another 2, 3 weeks (or months) about how crappy you think the entire run was you are nothing but a putz.

I've honestly only seen the first two episodes. I'm not surprised they couldn't nicely resolve series considering the incoherence I've seen so far. People in this thread have talked about them arbitrarily dropping story elements. In the first couple episodes, I guess my problem was arbitrarily picking up story elements.

Am I the only one who realizes that Walmarticus is whooshing everyone? I mean, nobody ever says something like "I knew in like the first second that Starbuck was the greatest character ever created. When the camera cut to something that wasn't her face it was all downhill from there." about something they actually don't like.

I didn't even realize.

The show blows but that character is several magnitudes of adorable. I never said I didn't like Starbuck and I never will. BSG could be as terrible as Lost and I'd still love that character.

Grumman
04-25-2011, 10:58 PM
Watch the whole series and realize you are wronger than Dolly Parton with a one meter penis...we win....

Watch the whole series and realize you were right and still bitch and moan about how it sucks...we still win...
So what you're saying is that if he watches the last episode, he loses?

I think I can agree with that.

The Conqueror Worm
04-25-2011, 11:00 PM
I've honestly only seen the first two episodes. I'm not surprised they couldn't nicely resolve series considering the incoherence I've seen so far. People in this thread have talked about them arbitrarily dropping story elements. In the first couple episodes, I guess my problem was arbitrarily picking up story elements.




My friendly advice, give up on the series now. Me, I enjoyed most of the ride. You, you won't. Stop now and find something you will think better suited.

MovieMogul
04-25-2011, 11:57 PM
Am I the only one who realizes that Walmarticus is whooshing everyone? I mean, nobody ever says something like "I knew in like the first second that Starbuck was the greatest character ever created. When the camera cut to something that wasn't her face it was all downhill from there." about something they actually don't like.Don't know if it's a legitimate whoosh, but the thread does come as a huge relief because now I know that any thread, any contribution he makes I can safely skip over and know I'm not missing much. Why--because I disagree with him? Hardly.

It's because he manages to act infantile, entitled, and aggressive in just exactly the right tonal combination to be overwhelmingly irritating. He's clearly trying to be cute or jovial or irreverent in his demeanor at times, but he just comes across as a royal prick. But even pricks have legitimate arguments, cogently articulated; all he has is this one dead horse he keeps beating and beating, as if the act of repetition alone will convince others. It won't. Remedial "analysis" (I use the term liberally in his case) at its delusional worst.

So whew! Now I know.

Lobot
04-26-2011, 12:07 AM
I've just watched 5 episodes and the miniseries so far--started watching it last week. And I love it.

I watched the original show when I was young and loved that, too. I think the new series retains the spirit of the original remarkably well while cutting back on the corniness (but not too much).

Some things don't appeal to some people. I can't get into Buffy, for example. If you don't like BSG enough to write the OP, give up.

Walmarticus
04-26-2011, 01:14 AM
Don't know if it's a legitimate whoosh, but the thread does come as a huge relief because now I know that any thread, any contribution he makes I can safely skip over and know I'm not missing much. Why--because I disagree with him? Hardly.

It's because he manages to act infantile, entitled, and aggressive in just exactly the right tonal combination to be overwhelmingly irritating. He's clearly trying to be cute or jovial or irreverent in his demeanor at times, but he just comes across as a royal prick. But even pricks have legitimate arguments, cogently articulated; all he has is this one dead horse he keeps beating and beating, as if the act of repetition alone will convince others. It won't. Remedial "analysis" (I use the term liberally in his case) at its delusional worst.

So whew! Now I know.

I'm forced to keep repeating myself because people keep misunderstanding my complaint with the show. I'm not trying to convince others to buy my complaint, but to stop misunderstanding.

I say, "this show is bad and you should feel bad". You say "no fun allowed".

Mister Owl
04-26-2011, 01:38 AM
Now, how do I say it respectfully, ...oh hell forget it. The regulars already know and I ain't even gonna try now. Have fun, enjoy or not as you see fit.

amanset
04-26-2011, 03:05 AM
My friendly advice, give up on the series now. Me, I enjoyed most of the ride. You, you won't. Stop now and find something you will think better suited.

Or he could just watch the miniseries and get all the introductions to the characters and their backgrounds. Currently he is doing the equivalent of watching only episodes six and seven of Lost and declaring it to be shit because he doesn't understand who the characters are and how they relate to each other.

Of course when/if he watches the miniseries he'll still declare it to be shit as his mind is made up.

Kobal2
04-26-2011, 03:22 AM
The show also sucks because I immediately fell madly in love with the butch girl and she didn't play a prominent enough part.

Dude, if you're a fan of Starbuck *you* should feel bad. She's a horrible character and an all around horrible human being. She's gotta be on par with the President for "people on BSG who make me want to punch them in their self-absorbed mouth at least twice per episode". Oh, also Head Six. God, but does she need a smack in the gob too.

MrDibble
04-26-2011, 05:00 AM
I'm failing to see the truth of the OP's argument - I mean, all the characters are interconnected, and he keeps insisting they're not?

FinnAgain
04-26-2011, 05:38 AM
It's too bad that the OP doesn't understand BSG, ah well. It's really not very complicated.

The last episode was fucking horrible though. Out of all the ways they could have ended the series, the way they did really felt like a huge letdown. After a series spent being fairly edgy, right up to setting up suicide bombers as the good guys on New Capcrica... the end was just like eating a big pie made of sand. Truly shitty.

twickster
04-26-2011, 07:09 AM
We need more Cafe Society threads talking about things when they suck. They are much more fun.


There is no possibility of offending the fine gentlemen here because I trashed a show they like. Nothing to lose and the only thing to gain is the fun of talking trash- because gentlemen enjoy talking trash, I guess. I dunno.


I say, "this show is bad and you should feel bad". You say "no fun allowed".

Putting a lot of your comments together, it's starting to look like trolling to me. Trolling, as you know, is against the rules, so you may want to rethink your strategy here.

You may tell people what you think. You may not tell people what they should think.

twickster, Cafe Society moderator

Kobal2
04-26-2011, 02:20 PM
The last episode was fucking horrible though. Out of all the ways they could have ended the series, the way they did really felt like a huge letdown. After a series spent being fairly edgy, right up to setting up suicide bombers as the good guys on New Capcrica... the end was just like eating a big pie made of sand. Truly shitty.

Personally I gave up when Starbuck came back from the dead. And was an angel. Who knew the way to Earth by listening to the fucking song of space. At this point the retardation was just too much to bear.

Left Hand of Dorkness
04-26-2011, 02:35 PM
I watched the first episode without having watched the miniseries, and I was completely hooked. I hate bad exposition--nothing takes me more out of a story than bad exposition (Dark City, I'm looking at you)--and so this story that basically gave the finger to exposition was right up my alley. Sure, I was almost as confused by it as Walmarticus, but I figured that was a meta-technique: it threw me off-balance and made me anxious and therefore got me into the heads of the characters.

FinnAgain
04-26-2011, 04:21 PM
At this point the retardation was just too much to bear.

To be fair, it was Bob Dylan space music... so I forgave it.

Hamlet
04-26-2011, 04:50 PM
I really enjoyed the first couple seasons. I didnt mind the slow development, and the interesting mysteries and questions it raised.
If I could go back in time, I'd warn myself not to even start the series because it ended up devolving into stupidity and character inconsistencies that made it all but intolerable.

Alessan
04-26-2011, 04:51 PM
I actually liked the ending.

But then, I had long before that realized that the series was actually fantasy under a thin veneer of science fiction, so the fact that they went with a fantasy ending didn't bother me. After all, I love both genres equally.

Grumman
04-26-2011, 05:21 PM
I actually liked the ending.

But then, I had long before that realized that the series was actually fantasy under a thin veneer of science fiction, so the fact that they went with a fantasy ending didn't bother me. After all, I love both genres equally.
If it was made obvious from the start instead of being shoehorned in part way through, and if it was the good sort of fantasy, I might agree.

The entire cast entering a suicide pact, throwing away their goals and dying short, pointless lives out of stupidity is not the good sort of fantasy.

Mahaloth
04-26-2011, 07:27 PM
I actually liked the ending.


Me too. I actually think it is the best series finale of all time.

I know. We're weird.

Oakminster
04-26-2011, 07:52 PM
The show blows but that character is several magnitudes of adorable. I never said I didn't like Starbuck and I never will. BSG could be as terrible as Lost and I'd still love that character.

Um...no. Nothing about Starbuck is remotely close to any reasonable definition of "adorable". She's the stereotypical hard drinking, hard frakking fighter pilot. It's edgy because she's a chick with bigger balls than most men.

Strong, competent woman? Yes.
Hot? Yes.
Adorable? Not even close.

The Tooth
04-26-2011, 08:08 PM
I liked the finale too! Sure, the last season was rocky at best despite Dee providing one of my favourite TV moments ever, but the finale was great. Not New Caprica great, but pretty damned great nonetheless.

Alessan
04-26-2011, 11:47 PM
If it was made obvious from the start instead of being shoehorned in part way through, and if it was the good sort of fantasy, I might agree.


How wasn't it obvious? The visions, angels and ancient prophecies were right there from the beginning. Add to that science fiction so soft it made Star Wars look like Tom Godwin, and how could it be seen as anything other than fantasy?

As for the end -


It fit with the themes of rebirth and renewal, of breaking the cycle of "all this has happened before, all this will happen again." Was it perfect? No, but for me it worked.

Grumman
04-27-2011, 12:09 AM
How wasn't it obvious? The visions, angels and ancient prophecies were right there from the beginning.
There were religious people right there from the beginning, but I don't recall anything suggesting it was actually divinely inspired. If I'm wrong, post the earliest example you can think of.

As for the end -


It fit with the themes of rebirth and renewal, of breaking the cycle of "all this has happened before, all this will happen again." Was it perfect? No, but for me it worked.

No, it doesn't. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." They didn't break the cycle, they just reset humanity back to the start of the first iteration, without any kind of knowledge that could otherwise have let them make a better decision next time around. It's like a Groundhog Day loop where you don't retain your memories - you're not going to make any progress if you have to keep starting completely from scratch.

Alessan
04-27-2011, 12:35 AM
There were religious people right there from the beginning, but I don't recall anything suggesting it was actually divinely inspired. If I'm wrong, post the earliest example you can think of.




The Scrolls of Pythia, which described events that occured in the series.

Laura Roslin's visions, which always seemed to come true.

And of course, Head Six, who right from the start claimed to be an angel of God, and - surprise! - was telling the truth all along.

Grumman
04-27-2011, 12:51 AM
The Scrolls of Pythia, which described events that occured in the series.
When was the first time this occurred, and not just by stating their civilisation keeps making the same dumbass mistake?

Laura Roslin's visions, which always seemed to come true.
Again, when was the first time one of her visions came true?

And of course, Head Six, who right from the start claimed to be an angel of God, and - surprise! - was telling the truth all along.
Was she actually proven to be an angel any time before the final episode?

Kobal2
04-27-2011, 01:00 AM
The Scrolls of Pythia, which described events that occured in the series.

Laura Roslin's visions, which always seemed to come true.

And of course, Head Six, who right from the start claimed to be an angel of God, and - surprise! - was telling the truth all along.


But all those things were (deliberately) ambiguous.

The Scrolls could have been so much religious claptrap as the Bible is. Rosslyn's visions could have been coincidence and confirmation bias. Baltar could simply have been nuts.

Until the end where suddenly bam, it's not ambiguous at all any more but becomes the hard, factual basis of the entire universe. It bothered me as well - the last innings of the show felt like they were being hijacked by Evangelicals to me. YMMV.

Alessan
04-27-2011, 02:01 AM
Speak for yourself - I usually consider ambiguity to mean that the writers don't have the courage of their convictions. It's the coward's way out.

Grumman:


1. Sorry - it's been a while. I do remember that the scrolls had some relevance to the modern plot, and besides, ancient scrolls telling a fragmented tale of a lost civilization are very much a fantasy trope.

2. Laura's vision of whatshisname flying out the airlock before she ever met him, the snakes, and of course all of the Opera House visions... it was quite clear that prophecy was a real and present force in their world.

3. When was Head Six ever shown as anything other than an angel? She wasn't a chip (Baltar checked, remember?), and the Cylons obviously knew nothing about her - as one of them had an angel of her own. The fact that none of the viewers believed she was an angel until the end doesn't change the fact that the writers were perfectly honest and forthright about her. It was a fine bit of storytelling: all of the pieces of the puzzle were right in front of us, but it took us the length of the series to piece them together.

MrDibble
04-27-2011, 08:55 AM
I'm with Alessan on this one. A lot of people felt cheated by the final, but they really weren't. They cheated themselves. They'd just let their modernist cynicism dictate to them over the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

It's like people saying Star Wars isn't a fantasy series. Yeah, the other one has bells on.

filling_pages
04-27-2011, 10:57 AM
I'm rewatching it from the beginning with my sister, and I agree with those who say it was all there from there start. Along with the stuff already mentioned, there's the really obvious (once you know what's coming) part in the 5th episode ("You Can't Go Home Again" part 2):

There's Starbuck, stuck on the planet or moon or whatever. She's running out of air. Her leg's fucked up. She prays to the Gods for help getting back to the Galactica, and BAM, walks over the hill and there's the downed cylon ship. Which she then manages to pilot back into space, make contact, and bring it home without further injury.

FinnAgain
04-27-2011, 11:19 AM
Except there are no Gods within the BSG universe, only the one God.

Raguleader
04-27-2011, 12:10 PM
I'm with Alessan on this one. A lot of people felt cheated by the final, but they really weren't. They cheated themselves. They'd just let their modernist cynicism dictate to them over the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

It's like people saying Star Wars isn't a fantasy series. Yeah, the other one has bells on.

Are there people who still claim that Star Wars isn't fantasy? Huh.

I just want to say I have found much of this thread to be rather entertaining, but it looks like the OP has been addressed so there's no further need for me to. :cool:

Chronos
04-27-2011, 12:21 PM
I don't complain that it's fantasy (and it certainly developed into fantasy as the series progressed, even if it didn't start that way), but I still think the ending wasn't very good fantasy. OK, OK, "God did it". But show me how God did it; don't just have Him wrap everything up by literal fiat in a literal Deus ex Machina. Using filling pages' example:
There's Starbuck, stuck on the planet or moon or whatever. She's running out of air. Her leg's fucked up. She prays to the Gods for help getting back to the Galactica, and BAM, walks over the hill and there's the downed cylon ship. Which she then manages to pilot back into space, make contact, and bring it home without further injury. OK, that's fine: She prays, and her prayer is answered (by whomever) by a ship having crashed nearby, and her having the ability to repair it and to learn to fly it. That's perfectly acceptable. But her ship blowing up into tiny smithereens in an atmosphere she couldn't survive in even if she had ejected, and then poof, she's got a corpse on a completely different planet and she's alive again somewhere else? That's just sloppy writing. Sure, God could do that if He wanted, but it makes for a lousy story.

Left Hand of Dorkness
04-27-2011, 07:53 PM
I didn't mind most of the ending, but when I saw a robot doing the robot I entered a psychotic rage.

KneadToKnow
04-27-2011, 08:04 PM
Except there are no Gods within the BSG universe, only the one God.

You know it doesn't like that name.

John Mace
04-27-2011, 08:08 PM
I had the same problem after watching episode 1. It turns out you are actually supposed to start with the "miniseries" episodes, which are the real introduction to the series. IMO without seeing the miniseries first, episode 1 doesn't make much sense.

Yes. I thought the "miniseries" was fantastic. I never had a problem knowing who the characters were, although that is a big problem for me for other shows (Game of Thrones right now, although I'm starting to catch on).

Of course, I have memories of TOS, so I kinda new a lot of names and relationships already.

Kobal2
04-28-2011, 03:46 AM
Speak for yourself - I usually consider ambiguity to mean that the writers don't have the courage of their convictions. It's the coward's way out.

Clarification: I don't really mind overt and active gods per se. It's the bait-and-switch that I object to. It's like the writers were saying "well, there are multiple ways to interpret the series and all viewers are equally valid in analysing it the way they HAHA psych fuck you !".

Statement: If you're going to do space fantasy then fine, do space fantasy, I like that too. Just don't sell it to me as post-apo space punk for god knows how many episodes, because throwing god in the works makes every single aspect of post-apo space punk entirely irrelevant, and takes a huge steaming dump on the people who were invested in those aspects of the show.

Baboonanza
04-28-2011, 04:21 AM
Now here's a thread I can get behind. I managed just 3 episodes of BSG before turning off in discust, and I made it through the whole series 1 of Dollhouse. DOLLHOUSE!

BSG is soap-opera fantasy with pretend sci-fi sets and less emotional depth than Star Wars. Characters do stupid things for inexplicable reasons and the plots I saw were not only completely transparent but incredibly dull in their resolution. Case in point is the episode where Starbuck crash lands on a planet and literally the entire episode is people humphing about in overwrought dramatic tension (as if Starbuck is going to die in episode 3) while absolutely nothing fucking happens. Incidentally they're risking the entire human race looking for a pilot who by any reasonable terms is dead (she only survives by finding a tube in a living alien spaceship that convieniently dispenses human breathable air - wft!).

The show was a train wreck. I may as well have been watching Eastenders, at least that's somewhat more plausable.

SenorBeef
04-28-2011, 12:31 PM
So anyway, this thread reminded me that I wanted to check out BSG. Watched the first few eps and it's... alright.

I like the "we're the last survivors of our race, struggling to keep things together with no resources/help/under constant attack/etc" angle of it. But I have to say the "omg who's a cylon?!!" stuff bores me to death.

Which is more prominent throughout the series? If it all ends up being secret cylon drama I might as well bow out now.

Kobal2
04-28-2011, 12:54 PM
It ends up being philosophico-mystical claptrap and remedial theology. No, really.

But there's a fair bit of post-apocalyptic struggle for survival and questionably rash-but-necessary-or-are-they? decisions along the way so it's not so bad while it lasts. Just remember to quit watching the show once they get off New Caprica and it's just fine - the whole Cylon infiltrators paranoia is just in the beginning that I recall. They identify the limited number of Cylon models rather quickly.

Saganist
04-28-2011, 01:06 PM
I made it to the mini-arc when they find the other battlestar with the insane admiral before I finally said fuck it and quit. Mostly I agree with Baboonanza. I like my sci-fi to actually have some sci aspects, not just be clearly-manufactured over-the-top soap-opera drama with characters who act either really naive or really selfish under the guise of being "dark".

filling_pages
04-28-2011, 01:15 PM
It ends up being philosophico-mystical claptrap and remedial theology. No, really.

But there's a fair bit of post-apocalyptic struggle for survival and questionably rash-but-necessary-or-are-they? decisions along the way so it's not so bad while it lasts. Just remember to quit watching the show once they get off New Caprica and it's just fine - the whole Cylon infiltrators paranoia is just in the beginning that I recall. They identify the limited number of Cylon models rather quickly.

Only if by "rather quickly" you mean "halfway through the final season."

Larry Mudd
04-28-2011, 04:31 PM
It ends up being philosophico-mystical claptrap and remedial theology. No, really.I don't get this criticism at all.

It doesn't end up as philosophico-mystical claptrap, it was conceived as philosophico-mystical claptrap. The new series did a great job of making it more palatable, but the core of BSG s is pure Erich Von Daniken Ancient Astronaut stuff - clumsily syncretizing just about any myth in the service of a suggested cyclic fate/Wheel O' Karma for humanity.

The rag-tag fleet's homeworlds are named for the houses of the Zodiac (or the other way around, in the absurd concept of the series.) Our heroes are the twelve tribes of Israel as recounted in Exodus... and their pilots' helmets are Egyptian Pharaohs' nemes. Apollo! Lucifer! Athena! Sheba! I mean, really: There are those who believe... that life here began out there.... far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. That they may have been the architects of the great pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Lemuria or Atlantis. Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man who even now fight to survive somewhere beyond the heavens.They redeemed the shit out of the original concept with the reboot - they did a great job of staying true to the core concept of the series, and it is necessarily filled with cheese. The 1978 Battlestar Galactica may have been aerosol cheese product, but the producers of the new series tweaked it until it was gouda. Consider that goin' in, and don't be disappointed when you aren't served chalk.

"Hey, let's redo Battlestar Galactica... but... you know... as hard science fiction." :dubious:

Terminus Est
04-28-2011, 05:37 PM
So anyway, this thread reminded me that I wanted to check out BSG. Watched the first few eps and it's... alright.

I like the "we're the last survivors of our race, struggling to keep things together with no resources/help/under constant attack/etc" angle of it. But I have to say the "omg who's a cylon?!!" stuff bores me to death.

Which is more prominent throughout the series? If it all ends up being secret cylon drama I might as well bow out now.

Different episodes of the series emphasize different themes and aspects of the show. Cylon paranoia is most prominent in the first season. It never entirely goes away, but is definitely de-emphasized in later episodes. (Although there's going to be a HUGE storyline about certain unidentified cylons in Season 3.) Personally, I rather liked the paranoia about cylon identity.

Concern about missing resources will grow through the series. Once something blows up, it's not coming back.

And, yes, if you have no patience for mystical claptrap, then you might as well give up now.

Raguleader
04-28-2011, 08:55 PM
On the subject of paranoia, my favorite bit is when a group of characters are sitting at the dinner table discussing the issue, and one of them remarks that ANY of them could be a cylon. There's a long, uncomfortable pause...

...and then one of them chooses to break the tension by shouting "BOO!":D

Chronos
04-28-2011, 09:03 PM
I don't see why anyone would complain that it's not hard SF-- nothing on TV is. If anything, it at least seemed harder to me than any of the various incarnations of Star Trek.

Kobal2
04-29-2011, 12:57 AM
I don't get this criticism at all.

It doesn't end up as philosophico-mystical claptrap, it was conceived as philosophico-mystical claptrap.[...]

Well I, being a young whipper snapper, didn't know the original series from Adam. so there's that :)

I don't know, man. To me it felt like so much wasted potential, that's all. As I said, I don't mind fantasy IN SPACE!, and I don't even have a problem with philosophico-mystical claptrap in and of itself. Hell, I'm a huge drooling fanboy of Snow Crash, so now that I think about it I'm not even absolutely opposed to having my -punk turned into something else halfway through. Maybe I simply was expecting too much from this particular show.

Lobot
04-29-2011, 03:00 AM
Still working my way through Season 1, but I agree with Larry. The original series mixed Star Wars, Chariots of the Gods and some Mormon elements to create something very much of its time. The new series still has that rather goofy mix at its core, which is exactly why I love it. How much of the premise could they remove before it stops being Battlestar Galactica?

AndyPolley
04-29-2011, 07:58 AM
There were religious people right there from the beginning, but I don't recall anything suggesting it was actually divinely inspired. If I'm wrong, post the earliest example you can think of.

Late to the party, but in the episiode Home Part 2...
...using the mythical "Arrow of Apollo," after it was placed in the hands of a statue, opened up an Earth's eye view of the stars. They were in a cave and then *poof* they were in a grassy field. It was, in no uncertain terms, magic. It was the 20th episode of the series...middle of the 2nd season. Love or hate the end of the series, but mystic BS was foreshadowed years in advance of the finale

For everyone looking for 'hard' sci-fi on TV...what's a better example? Because I get riled up when BSG is compared to shows that 'got it right' like Babylon 5...which also had freakin angels...only B5 also had demons (Shadows...whatever) and lousy time travel nonsense. Don't get me started on the telepaths...

I say that BSG, while still relying on dramatic & fantasy elements, also made a better effort than most (http://www.amazon.com/Science-Battlestar-Galactica-Patrick-Justo/dp/0470399090) so called 'sci-fi' shows. I like the series because it's a bunch of different things, and I don't believe that the characters simply did "stupid things for inexplicable reasons." They were not the best humanity had to offer, facing the end of civilization, and acted somewhat accordingly. Remember the riot over coffee? That sounds just stupid enough to be realistic to me. It was a great concept with interesting characters who did interesting things. It provoked how the viewer looked at things. Politics, religion, terrorism, paranoia, love, war, abortion, trust, mysticism, military drama...all over the damn map...WITH cool spaceships & big explosions.

A basic cable show about spaceships & robots was way more interesting than Doctor Who or Star Trek or Firefly or whatever the Geek Illuminati deems to be the best 'sci-fi' television out there. I'm sure someone will come along with something they consider 'great' sci-fi television, and I think Galactica will stand with them just fine.

*full disclosure, I love Doctor Who, Star Trek & Firefly. Especially the new 11th Doctor.

Spice Weasel
04-29-2011, 10:15 AM
Me too. I actually think it is the best series finale of all time.

I know. We're weird.
I didn't hate it. I think the reason it gets such a bad rap is because it wasn't really on par with the rest of the show. And because ending such a beautiful thing, in any way, is bound to make some people bitter.

I think BSG is the best television series of all time.

Lemur866
04-29-2011, 11:05 AM
More BSG spoilers ahead, so etc etc.

You know, in Science Fiction we're so used to chosen ones, destiny, prophecy, benevolent mysterious beings, malevolent mysterious beings, coincidence, intuition, trusting your feelings, ghosts, visions, miraculous saves, magic powers, and on and on, that we don't even notice it. Because usually it's given some pseudo-scientific veneer.

But there's no such thing as telekinesis, or telepathy, or clairvoyance, or precognition. Those things are magic, and including them in a science fiction setting means you're including magic. But we're so used to these things that a telepathic waif doesn't break our suspension of disbelief.

The reason some people were wrong-footed by Battlestar Galactica is that they accepted that magic is magic. Most other shows will leave some ambuguity. They won't call the mysterious being who provides help an "Angel", even though that's clearly what it is. How does it make it cheesy for Six to call herself an angel of God, and for Baltar to call the vision Six an angel? Would it be less cheesy just because they didn't use that word? How many other shows have we seen where there's some mysterious helper, and then at the end nobody else saw the helper, and the protagonist is all, "who was that mysterious stranger?"

Maybe it's because I flat-out disbelieve all that sort of stuff in real life that it doesn't bother me a bit that a show treated all this destiny and chosen one and prophecy crap seriously as miracles from God. Because that's what it would be, if it were real, which it isn't. But in the fictional world they created, how is God sending a prophecy more implausible than just having a prophecy? I know that God is fictional, but so is Gaius Baltar.

Raguleader
04-29-2011, 01:47 PM
For everyone looking for 'hard' sci-fi on TV...what's a better example? Because I get riled up when BSG is compared to shows that 'got it right' like Babylon 5...which also had freakin angels...only B5 also had demons (Shadows...whatever) and lousy time travel nonsense. Don't get me started on the telepaths...

*pushes glasses up nose*

Actually, assuming you haven't seen The Lost Tales, then B5 didn't really have angels or demons. The Vorlons passed themselves off as holy figures to the various younger figures to manipulate them (kinda like many of the aliens on Stargate SG-1, actually), and the Shadows... just look really freaky. I don't think they ever pass themselves off as anything other than some big powerful group who enjoyed starting shit amongst the younger races.

In Lost Tales, we do see what is treated as pretty much a straight forward demonic possession, complete with a Catholic priest arriving to perform an exorcism. Actually pretty interesting how they played it, if rather dialogue-heavy and sadly lacking in a cool space battle).

Also, Babylon 5, for all it's relative hardness, DID straight up have wizards. they were called Techno-Mages, with a "Sufficiently Advanced Technology" justification, but yes, wizards. And they were awesome. So yeah, relatively hard sci-fi with lots of magic and religiosity running all over the place. And yes, telepaths and time travel and immortal beings.

Kobal2
04-29-2011, 02:06 PM
HERE BE UNTAGGED SPOILERS


The problem with an interventionist omnipotent god being factual (and unchecked by other gods) is that it completely voids the other plotlines throughout the show. Before, you could ask yourself "Was the President really right to space all those people ?" or "Was that particular course of action justified, really ?".

Well now, knowing that the visions were sent from on high, of course she was right. She had a direct mandate from god almighty to do so. Doesn't really get more unilateral than that. Same thing about Baltar and his pocket angel slash cocktease. He wasn't in denial, or having hallucinations to rationalize his spinelessness. He "just" was the Chosen one or whatever.

Even the scarcity and de-population issues become irrelevant when you know that god almighty wants them to reach Earth, evidently he's not going to let them starve en route. If need be he'll just pop a fertile planet in their path, and no one the wiser.
I mean, when even a dead major character is just magicked right the fuck back halfway across the galaxy, what meaningful conflict is there any more ? What challenges are significant ? The whole fleet could have been blown to smithereens, and god would just have put it back together again. Hell, he could have simply teleported every single human and cylon from Caprica to Earth and spared them the charade.

Lemur866
04-29-2011, 02:35 PM
Of course that's the problem with God. But that's because you and I are atheists, and realize that if God/Christianity were real, none of this Earthly existence makes any sense. What's the point of it all?

However, lots of people really believe in God, and believe that we're here on Earth for a reason, and that we suffer and die and struggle for a reason. So the narrative makes sense on those terms.

I understand where you're going though. I've been reading the Narnia books to my kids, and I realize that C.S. Lewis was a serious Christian, and Aslan was supposed to be a serious parable about God/Jesus. Except, it doesn't make sense on those terms. Oh, Aslan creates Narnia, but the Witch comes from Charn and introduces evil into the world? Well, you know, why can't Aslan just twitch his nose and send her back to Charn? What's the point of sending Diggory and Polly on a fetch quest? What's the point of any of it?

Chronos
04-29-2011, 02:38 PM
AndyPolley, I didn't get a "magic" vibe from the Temple of Athena at all. Unexplainable to the main characters, sure, but I figured it was just advanced technology, an overblown planetarium show, as someone called it. It clearly wasn't a real field on Earth, since the Twelve Constellations were way too overemphasized... Just like they would be in a planetarium show where the presenter wanted to make sure they'd be noticed.

Lightray
04-29-2011, 02:42 PM
HERE BE UNTAGGED SPOILERS...
That interpretation is only possible if you completely missed the point that He-Doesn't-Like-To-Be-Called that had done all that before, as was doing so again. But the past times -- including on "Earth" where the Final Five recalled stories of Head!Angel type visions before the end -- what he was doing didn't work.

He's not an infallable god.

... And I'm not particularly sure we have any certainty that he was the only god, so I'm leery of labeling him "unopposed". Heck, we don't really know what the "gods of Kobol" were, other than Head!Six seemed to regard them as categorically different than He-Doesn't-etc-etc.

Moreover, anyone can easily fanwank a "Sufficiently Advanced Technology" figleaf on the whole thing, which pretty much puts it exactly where B5 was in terms of sci-fi hardness. Well, without telepathy and telekinesis, so maybe BSG more like jello to B5 as ambrosia salad.

Mosier
04-30-2011, 01:48 AM
The nebula caused that Dylan song to resonate through the walls of the ship, but the only people who could hear it were Cylons. Magically returned to life Starbuck plays the Dylan song from memory with the help of a stranger nobody else can see. The Dylan song notes correspond somehow to coordinates where earth is located. The only human/cylon hybrid child draws random dots that, when covered with transparent blank music notation sheets, correspond to the Dylan song.

The moral of the series is that Dylan is what It wants to be called.

Biffy the Elephant Shrew
04-30-2011, 09:21 AM
The moral of the series is that Dylan is what It wants to be called.

"You can call me Bobby, and you can call me Zimmy..."

Ibanez
04-30-2011, 09:26 AM
I tried to get into BSG. I bought the first season. Watched a few episodes, it was the acting that kind of turned me off. Starbucks character came across as a hard ass but her acting didn't convince me, being one of the main characters once that happens the damage was done for me.

I might give it another shot some time.

Eonwe
04-30-2011, 11:04 AM
I agree completely with Lemur866's interpretation of the whole thing.

I think that the problem with intellectualizing and rationalizing divine intervention is that you always run into a major wall of "wtf was the point of that, if God is all-seeing/knowing/burrito-eating?"

The thing is, is that human understanding of God(s) and interaction with God (or the idea of a God) is complicated, messy, and full of plot holes and inconsistencies. But, it's still central to the lives of most people on the planet, and has been for basically our whole existence. I have no problem with a series that reflects that complication and projects it into the real (imaginary) world.

Plus, as has been said before, based on the first miniseries (which ended, IIRC, with Adama talking about giving the people something to have faith in), and all the names being named after Greek gods, and the 12 tribes of Israel reference, it was pretty clear from the get-go, in my opinion, that we were dealing with a story of biblical, and not technical, proportions.


As a hijack, since there are a bunch of BSG-watchers in here, what did people think about the whole 'All Along The Watchtower' portion of the story? There were definitely bad episodes in the series, but this little plot point was the one thing that just ripped me right out of the story. I just don't 'get' what the point was. It was like an easter egg for the viewers, but then blown up and made the entire point of a few episodes. What's the analysis?

Zebra
04-30-2011, 11:51 AM
Also this was a hugely female centric show. It's a chick movie. Personally I'm not offended or turned off by that. Sense and Sensibility is one of my favorite films. But here, every man is a dickless wonder being lead around or fooled by a woman. Commander Adama sometimes gets to do something but usually his solution is to send in Starbuck.

It's BSG meets The Mists of Avalon.

Chronos
04-30-2011, 02:08 PM
Quoth Lightray:... And I'm not particularly sure we have any certainty that he was the only god, so I'm leery of labeling him "unopposed". Heck, we don't really know what the "gods of Kobol" were, other than Head!Six seemed to regard them as categorically different than He-Doesn't-etc-etc.
That, and when they're looking for the Tomb of Athena, Sharon (ironically, the same Sharon who would later go by the callsign "Athena") says something to the effect of "Oh, they exist, they're just not gods".

Mosier
04-30-2011, 11:29 PM
As a hijack, since there are a bunch of BSG-watchers in here, what did people think about the whole 'All Along The Watchtower' portion of the story? There were definitely bad episodes in the series, but this little plot point was the one thing that just ripped me right out of the story. I just don't 'get' what the point was. It was like an easter egg for the viewers, but then blown up and made the entire point of a few episodes. What's the analysis?

I thought it was awful. From the way the reviews of the last season went, most people agree with me. The damn Cylons are singing the song subconsciously. Why!?!?

Alessan
05-01-2011, 02:28 AM
Personally, I think it was quite possibly the most awesome thing in the history of television. But then, I also love the sing-along scene in Magnolia, too.

FinnAgain
05-01-2011, 03:38 AM
It just shows that Bob Dylan really is God.

Xandroid
05-01-2011, 05:31 AM
Every frackin word out of Colonel Tigh's mouth was comedy gold. I'd watch a show about that dude organizing his stamp collection.

nachtmusick
05-01-2011, 05:50 AM
The writers of BSG boned their audience, pure and simple. They strung everybody along with intriguing plot twists that promised big payoffs, and then abandoned almost every story line. They abdicated. They wrote themselves into corners and then threw their hands up in the air. For all that the body of the series was captivating, the ending was reprehensible.

Lemur866
05-01-2011, 09:22 AM
Everyone complains about every arc/mythology heavy show that the setup was more interesting than the reveal. It ain't just BSG.

It's interesting that there are four hidden cylons on the fleet. Omigod, who are they? What is their purpose? Except when you find out their identity it HAS to be a letdown, because knowing the mystery destroys the mystery. The answer can never be as interesting as the question.

Larry Mudd
05-01-2011, 09:29 AM
Maybe the producers should have asked David Lynch or J.J. Abrams how they managed to wrap up Twin Peaks and Lost* in such a way as to leave everyone 100% of satisfied.

*respectively

msmith537
05-01-2011, 09:56 AM
Maybe the producers should have asked David Lynch or J.J. Abrams how they managed to wrap up Twin Peaks and Lost* in such a way as to leave everyone 100% of satisfied.

*respectively

Don't forget Chris Carter and his X-Files!

Bryan Ekers
05-01-2011, 10:47 AM
I lost interest about halfway through the series.


Did they turn out to actually have a plan?

Lightray
05-01-2011, 11:22 AM
Did they turn out to actually have a plan?
There was a plan. The usual suspects complained about it too, just as they complained about the finale, the religious stuff, etc., etc.

The Plan:
Cylon Number One, John, has "mommy issues" and is irritated that he's been stuck in the old guy body of Dean Stockwell, instead of some transhuman superrobot body or something. His Plan is to destroy all humans and therefore make his mommy see they're not worth it and so she'll love him.

He mindwiped the Final Five because they would have stopped him, then he bamboozled the other Cylons into destroying all humans. The Plan went awry because the other Cylons realized it was bunk, basically. And mommy didn't end up loving him, either.

Turned out that The Plan was a bit more pathetic than everyone had assumed it was.

msmith537
05-01-2011, 02:27 PM
Strong, competent woman? Yes.
Hot? Yes.
Adorable? Not even close.

She wasn't that competent. And she was only about a six. (Ironically Six was at least a ten).

Raguleader
05-01-2011, 03:01 PM
She wasn't that competent. And she was only about a six. (Ironically Six was at least a ten).

Eh, Six was a solid Seven. Eight was a Ten. All of her were.

HansKraal
06-07-2011, 01:18 PM
I just couldn't get past the first episode of the miniseries. First I get a tiny glimpse of action and then I am led into a gargantuan cast with way to many problems (Daddy-Son; Government-Military; Cancer(?);...) and so on. And before I had a decent fight scene I already had several love scenes and so on and on and on....

I gave it a chance because some board posted it as No. 1 SciFi Series of all time. But please. I don't think anything goes above TNG. At least I can watch it with some irony. This whole BSG is taking itself way too seriously. You will never find enough good actors to star in a General Hospital/Babylon 5 Crossover with some spicy real life cam in it.

Unfortunately I can't go into detail about what really pissed me off most. But mostly it was this wannabe seriousness that a show of that format can't provide.

They just never should have cancelled Space 2063.

Oakminster
06-07-2011, 01:27 PM
She wasn't that competent. And she was only about a six. (Ironically Six was at least a ten).

Starbuck? Not competent?

Huh?

She was generally acknowledged as the best fighter pilot in the rag-tag fleet. No slouch at hand-to-hand combat or small unit infantry tactics, either. Also did a reasonable job as CAG. Did show poor judgment as a flight instructor, and had some behavior issues...but she knew her shit, and was damned good at what she did.

Chronos
06-07-2011, 03:14 PM
But please. I don't think anything goes above TNG.Lots of things go above TNG.

Smurfie
06-07-2011, 03:16 PM
The OP must HATE Crown of Thorns!

mlees
06-07-2011, 03:36 PM
The OP must HATE Crown of Thorns!

Crown of Thorns, or Game of Thrones? :confused:

Kobal2
06-07-2011, 04:56 PM
Don't forget Chris Carter and his X-Files!

The problem with X-Files isn't that they did not wrap it up well. It's that Carter wrapped it up in a somewhat anticlimactic (but still workable) manner, then the series went on for two more seasons.

Smurfie
06-08-2011, 08:48 AM
Crown of Thorns, or Game of Thrones? :confused:

FRAK! What in the hell was I thinking... Oh, I just came from a Jesus thread. :)

Irishman
06-08-2011, 01:31 PM
I didn't start this thread to defend my position. Ideally me and people who didn't like BSG would bash it while the fans sat back and took it. You people need to feel worse.

Sorry that didn't work out for you.

Well, of the two of us I'm the one who watched it the whole series, so I think I'll stick with my opinion of liking it. But I promise to feel bad about every 33 minutes for a while if that will make you happy.

33 1/2 minutes. But who's counting?

I can't believe I have to convince you people that you should feel bad and that you didn't already know it. And that you are fighting me not to!

Maybe because your reasons suck ass.

Mock me because I think BSG fans should feel dirty and ashamed, not because you don't agree with my criticism.

Will do.

I'm going to wet my pants and have a tantrum if I have to keep repeating that I understand the show.

You mean you haven't yet?

I like the "we're the last survivors of our race, struggling to keep things together with no resources/help/under constant attack/etc" angle of it. But I have to say the "omg who's a cylon?!!" stuff bores me to death.

Which is more prominent throughout the series? If it all ends up being secret cylon drama I might as well bow out now.

Bow out now. The "who's a cylon" crap doesn't really go away. Even after they reveal the first 8, they turn around and have a secret 5.

They put several characters through a guessing game about themselves for no reason. They throw out the whole prophesy stuff to toy with who is and is not a cylon.

Then they really fuck up Starbuck. Just because.

I might give it another shot some time.

Don't bother. If you didn't get sucked in right away, it doesn't get better. Sure, there are some interesting moral dilemmas that get dropped in and explored, but overall it was a major letdown. It's all about emotional abuse of the characters.

SenorBeef
06-08-2011, 01:37 PM
Bow out now. The "who's a cylon" crap doesn't really go away. Even after they reveal the first 8, they turn around and have a secret 5.


Too late, I watched the whole series already :P

It was... alright. Worth watching. Probably made easier by expecting the negative parts of it by reading this thread.

Snickers
06-09-2011, 10:23 AM
Good Christ. If Starbuck's a 6, and 6 is a 7, I'm frakked. That'll put me at about a 1 or a 2. You people can't be serious with these rankings.

Acsenray
06-09-2011, 10:28 AM
As Jerry Seinfeld said, 95 percent of all people are undatable. So, yeah, you are probably a 1 or a 2!

Merijeek
06-09-2011, 11:05 AM
As Jerry Seinfeld said, 95 percent of all people are undatable. So, yeah, you are probably a 1 or a 2!

Fortunately, there's alcohol.

-Joe

Terminus Est
06-09-2011, 04:16 PM
Too late, I watched the whole series already :P

It was... alright. Worth watching. Probably made easier by expecting the negative parts of it by reading this thread.

Mission accomplished, I guess.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.