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kanicbird
06-22-2011, 10:54 AM
When did Apple regularly ship with 2 (or more) button mouses (mice)? Also when did the Ipod/iphone stuff start?

Apple really made a turn around with their ipod/phone etc lines that made them main stream instead of a nitch product line (yes a fairly large nitch). A friend commented that their turnaround was around the time when Apple started to make mouses with more then a single button, inferring that they were finally abandoning things that thought Apple felt was good for their image, but people really didn't want, and apple was ready to make changes and reaped great rewards. It was a conversation on stubbornness and resistance to change because of a false belief that one is right. I just want to know the timeline of the 2.

Thanks

Anamorphic
06-22-2011, 11:11 AM
I don't think that's really true. Apple's turnaround really began with the return of Steve Jobs and the introduction of the iMac. That was in 1998. The iMac was absolutely huge for Apple, and really saved them from the brink.

The second major event that bumped them up even further was the iPod... that was in 2001.

Apple didn't release their first 2-button mouse until the Mighty Mouse, in 2005 (and it was still a piece of crap).

The iPhone was released in 2007, and while it certainly put the company into a whole other realm of success, they weren't exactly floundering at that point. I really don't think you can make a case that their success is tied with them finally giving in and going with a 2-button mouse.

cmyk
06-22-2011, 11:12 AM
To answer the question, it was summer of 2005 when Apple introduced the Mighty Mouse. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mighty_Mouse) Before then, if you didn't want to command-click for a "right-click", you'd have to buy a third-party multi-button mouse.

IMHO, though, Apple's turn around from the brink of folding was when Jobs came back to Apple as Interim CEO in '98 and basically turned the entire company around from the brink with the introduction to the original iMac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_G3) (yeh, remember those blueberry lookin' things?). I feel that's what set the "new" Apple into motion; there after pundits started calling Steve Jobs the iCEO (the "i" standing for interim).

The first iPod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod) was around 2001, just after the 9/11 attacks.


ETA: Scooped by Amamorphic!

Crazyhorse
06-22-2011, 11:12 AM
The first mouse Apple ever built with more than 1 button was the Mighty Mouse, in late 2005. Apple's big turnaround came in 1998 when Steve Jobs returned to the company and introduced the G3, and then the iMac. The next major breakthrough for the company was the iPod in late 2001. The first iPhone wasn't released until mid-2007. In a sense there is an overall trend starting more than 12 years ago and continuing today and the multi-button mouse was one very small milestone in a fairly spectacular transformation of the company.

UncleRojelio
06-22-2011, 11:13 AM
Apple has never had a mouse that has two actual buttons. The Apple Mighty Mouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mighty_Mouse) came out in 2005 and will detect left and right clicks despite not having any actual buttons. The first iPod came out in 2001.

kanicbird
06-22-2011, 11:18 AM
Apple has never had a mouse that has two actual buttons. The Apple Mighty Mouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mighty_Mouse) came out in 2005 and will detect left and right clicks despite not having any actual buttons. The first iPod came out in 2001.

The notebooks have 2 buttons today, well perhaps 1 button with a right click and left click section, but it is functionally 2. When was that?

Fine for the mighty mouse option, but when did 2 buttons become standard for Apple? Or was the mighty mouse made standard on 05? As the discussion was abandonment of the old non-working ways meaning admitting by change that 1 button mice were not working.

Anamorphic
06-22-2011, 11:28 AM
The notebooks have 2 buttons today, well perhaps 1 button with a right click and left click section, but it is functionally 2. When was that?

Fine for the mighty mouse option, but when did 2 buttons become standard for Apple? Or was the mighty mouse made standard on 05? As the discussion was abandonment of the old non-working ways meaning admitting by change that 1 button mice were not working.Yes, Apple began shipping the Mighty Mouse with new computers in '05.

I've been an Apple user for a long, long time, and I've always despised their mice. I've always used a third party mouse with multiple buttons and actual functionality. I got tricked into buying a Mighty Mouse when they were released, because it looked and sounded cool. I think I used it for about a day before I threw it aside and went back to my Logitech mouse.

That said, I think their multitouch trackpads are brilliant. Part of me wonders if they knew that's the direction they wanted to head in all these years, and have just been biding their time and spending pennies on crappy mouse technology just waiting. Okay, I don't really believe that, but I don't understand how a company with such great technology was never able to release a halfway decent mouse.

Crazyhorse
06-22-2011, 11:51 AM
I got tricked into buying a Mighty Mouse when they were released, because it looked and sounded cool. I think I used it for about a day before I threw it aside and went back to my Logitech mouse.

That said, I think their multitouch trackpads are brilliant.

Well my friend, you are in for a treat. The Magic Mouse (http://www.apple.com/magicmouse/) is based on Apple's multi-touch trackpads.

Anamorphic
06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
Well my friend, you are in for a treat. The Magic Mouse (http://www.apple.com/magicmouse/) is based on Apple's multi-touch trackpads.Thank you, yeah, I've seen that, and I've been tempted. Maybe I'm still stinging from all the crappy mice in Apple's past but... I'm still hesitant. And I really do love my Logitech for my desktop, and I'm fine with just the trackpad for my laptop.

But maybe I'll try it out next time in an Apple Store!

initech
06-22-2011, 12:26 PM
There has been an increase in Mac sales, starting around 2005. I don't think it has anything to do with the two-button mouse, though. Apple switched to Intel processors in 2005, and many of the reasons to choose a PC over a Mac evaporated.

http://www.systemshootouts.org/?q=node/197

Jobs has always been stubborn, but not resistant to change. He has very strong beliefs about design, including a disdain for buttons. Many disagree, but Apple's performance suggests that he's on to something.

My guess: the two-button mouse was a compromise, made necessary by the presence of Boot Camp on the Intel Macs.

kanicbird
06-22-2011, 12:37 PM
My guess: the two-button mouse was a compromise, made necessary by the presence of Boot Camp on the Intel Macs.

That would be interesting if that was the reason.

Chronos
06-22-2011, 03:47 PM
At what point did Apple start supporting third-party multi-button mice? Was that before or after the Return of Jobs?

SanibelMan
06-22-2011, 03:55 PM
OS X has supported multi-button mouse natively since it debuted ten years ago. I want to say OS 8 and 9 supported two-button mice without special drivers, but I'm not certain. I know they didn't support scroll wheels without drivers.

dracoi
06-22-2011, 06:45 PM
I'm pretty sure two-button mice have been natively supported since System 7. (Of course, I had a four-button mouse then and that definitely needed a driver.)

I think it's worth noting that Apple laptops and the more recent mice all have default settings for only one button. You have to know how to turn on the sensitivity to the second button.

One other note on Apple's turnaround: while the G3 and iMac were significant as products, many of the most important factors were entirely invisible to the consumer. Pre 1998 Apple had an inventory cycle of something like 45 days. A company like Dell was holding only 12-15 days of inventory at that time. The interest alone on that difference is $10 million a year, but the bigger issue is having to dump obsolete inventory. By the 2000's, Apple and Dell were virtually equal, both having improved to something like 7 days of inventory.

Even more remarkable: by the 2000's Apple (like the PC competitors) could build a computer, sell it and collect the money from customers about 45 days faster than they had to pay their suppliers. Those kinds of efficiencies translate into huge cash reserves and tens of millions of dollars every year in increased profitability.

Balthisar
06-22-2011, 10:15 PM
Current Macs still come configured with a single mouse button, despite the ability to support right-click.

I hate Apple right-clicking on their single-click devices. I still require a separate, physical button. I'm left-handed, and so I'm guessing that that has a lot to do with it. On Apple mice, too many clicks are misinterpreted. I'll point out that I don't use the stupid "swap buttons" ability of Windows and Mac, i.e., left is left, and right is right.

I do live my Magic Trackpad, though, even though it still sometimes misinterprets primary and secondary, and doesn't support true middle-click. But dang!, so much better than a mouse.

Bytegeist
06-23-2011, 09:56 AM
At what point did Apple start supporting third-party multi-button mice? Was that before or after the Return of Jobs?

OS X has supported multi-button mouse natively since it debuted ten years ago. I want to say OS 8 and 9 supported two-button mice without special drivers, but I'm not certain.

Support for multi-button mice on pre-X systems was added in Carbon — Apple's bridge API for writing software that can run under MacOS 8, 9, and X. Carbon was introduced after Jobs returned to Apple.

Although Carbon worked on various versions of MacOS 8, I don't believe Apple's applications (such as the Finder) paid any attention to right mouse clicks until MacOS 9.

I'm pretty sure two-button mice have been natively supported since System 7. (Of course, I had a four-button mouse then and that definitely needed a driver.)


Not natively supported, under 7. There is no provision in the classic Mac API (pre-Carbon, pre-X) for distinguishing different mouse buttons. There are only events generated for the mouse button going up, or down.

Of course, an application that's been specifically written to talk to an installed driver can get that kind of information. It's also possible the driver was "forging" standard events from real events — like turning right mouse clicks into a control-clicks, or fake keypresses.

chaoticbear
06-23-2011, 04:17 PM
The notebooks have 2 buttons today, well perhaps 1 button with a right click and left click section, but it is functionally 2. When was that?

Fine for the mighty mouse option, but when did 2 buttons become standard for Apple? Or was the mighty mouse made standard on 05? As the discussion was abandonment of the old non-working ways meaning admitting by change that 1 button mice were not working.

Actually, for the last couple of years (2008?) there haven't been any buttons - the entire trackpad can pivot around the top edge to produce a clicking noise and function. There are two native options to enable a right-click - either using the bottom-right or top-right corner of the trackpad, or using two fingers.

Let me put it out there, though: for increasing the usability of a notebook, Apple's newer style trackpad is amazing. Especially with third-party programs to customize gestures.

Eyebrows 0f Doom
06-23-2011, 10:48 PM
Thank you, yeah, I've seen that, and I've been tempted. Maybe I'm still stinging from all the crappy mice in Apple's past but... I'm still hesitant. And I really do love my Logitech for my desktop, and I'm fine with just the trackpad for my laptop.

But maybe I'll try it out next time in an Apple Store!

I bought an iMac a few weeks ago and it came with one of these. It is so cool! I like being able to go back & forward through webpages by just brushing my fingers on it.

Amblydoper
06-24-2011, 09:55 AM
I bought an iMac a few weeks ago and it came with one of these. It is so cool! I like being able to go back & forward through webpages by just brushing my fingers on it.

It is a great mouse (Magic Mouse), but they forgot about ergonomics. Its not very comfortable to use long term.
I actually liked the Mighty Mouse. The scroll ball was fantastic. I will never buy a mouse with a mere scroll "wheel" again

Anamorphic
06-24-2011, 10:57 AM
It is a great mouse (Magic Mouse), but they forgot about ergonomics. Its not very comfortable to use long term.
I actually liked the Mighty Mouse. The scroll ball was fantastic. I will never buy a mouse with a mere scroll "wheel" againI liked the concept of the scroll ball, but it was so tiny... it goes back to your point about ergonomics. I found I had to contort my hand into an unnatural position to actually use the scroll ball, and it quickly became uncomfortable.

I will give the Magic Mouse a try, though.

Hunter Hawk
06-24-2011, 11:01 AM
I bought an iMac a few weeks ago and it came with one of these. It is so cool! I like being able to go back & forward through webpages by just brushing my fingers on it.

I take it you'd never owned a mouse that had side buttons? Because "back" and "forward" has been the default mapping on the side buttons of the 5-button mice that I've been using for the past decade or so. (This is on the PC side; I'm not sure about design patterns for mice used on Macs.)

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