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View Full Version : The Walking Dead; 3.09 "The Suicide King" (open spoilers)


alphaboi867
02-10-2013, 06:12 PM
It's finally back tonight. :) And The Talking Dead is now a full hour in length :cool:. Let's see where last left off Rick & co had successfully rescued Maggie & Glen from Woodville, but lost Daryl, the Governor has condemned the Dixon boys to fight eachother to the death in the arena, and Carl has a new group of survivors locked up. Based on the previews AMC's been airing during the marathon there's some major fallout over Woodbury being breached and some residents want to flee.

MacTech
02-10-2013, 09:08 PM
Hmm, so Michael Rooker is in the full opening credits, at least for this episode, not listed as "featuring" or "starring" or "special guest appearance by", but in the full cast opening credits...

Maybe Merle will be around for,a few episodes.....

Baker
02-10-2013, 09:18 PM
I really hope Rick means it, what he just said to Michonne. Can't stand her.

Bear_Nenno
02-10-2013, 09:21 PM
She's less annoying than Merle.

asterion
02-10-2013, 09:40 PM
That's one big baby for only being a week old.

alphaboi867
02-10-2013, 10:05 PM
So Rick is having visions of a woman in a white dress; who could that possibly be? :rolleyes: Even death can't stop her from fucking things up. So Rick may need to be relieved of command, and his lieutenant has left so there's not really an obvious successor. I'm not sure if Glenn's ready to step up, Hershal's too old, Carl's too young, and the women are too female (sorry, couldn't resist ;)). Seriously though I don't see either Carol or Maggie being ready for leadership; although Maggie's closer. Beth is to young and busy taking care of the baby.

MacTech
02-10-2013, 10:16 PM
So, Rick's channeling his own HeadSix now?

So say we all?

Klaatu
02-10-2013, 10:45 PM
Is Andrea going to be the new ruler of Woodbury? Will Rick get his shit straight? Will he really kick the newbies out? That one dude wants to attack the group.

Woodbury has to attack the prison, right?

I am sure the Dixon brothers will reappear. I think Carl will have some kind of big moment. Also katana queen.

misstee
02-10-2013, 11:07 PM
Rick needs to sleep.

Merle needs to shut up.

Daryl needs to come back.

montag01
02-10-2013, 11:28 PM
A "meh" episode, and perhaps that's being kind. I give more leeway to transition episodes, but this one annoyed me quite a lot. First, Merle and Darryl's immediate rescue was pat and sapped away all of the drama. It would have been far more interesting to me if they had to either fight their way out on their own or, better, use some guile. Darryl then going off with Merle is pretty pointless, though arguably still within his character (I feel the writers have shown he's grown out of his brother's shadow and no longer has any great psychological submission to Merle, and wouldn't put the group in a "It's either both of us or none of us" situation). Andrea's uninspiring speech to the easily-swayed members of Woodbury didn't do much for me. The Governor just seems to be dicking around. Michonne's near-muteness is eye-rolling at this point. And above all, I hope they're not going to keep on the "Rick is going nuts" sub-plot. There's so much potential in all the interesting stuff going on around them that I'd hate to see them waste time on hallucinations. There surely must be a better way to deal with Rick's guilt and inner turmoil.

Good stuff about the episode included its use of Herschel as counselor and medic; the dialogue between Carol and Carl and later between Carol and Herschel's daughter; and the way it explores the dynamics of Tyrese's group and Ty's moral sensibilities. The tension between Glen and Maggie was pretty good too.

Cat Whisperer
02-11-2013, 12:39 AM
I needed an option for "missed it." :( I'll have to try to track it down online or something.

alphaboi867
02-11-2013, 12:50 AM
I needed an option for "missed it." :( I'll have to try to track it down online or something.

AMC's airing repeats tonight and Friday at 10pm.

Face Intentionally Left Blank
02-11-2013, 02:10 AM
Michonne's near-muteness is eye-rolling at this point.

Near? I don't think she said a DAMN thing this episode. Are we quite sure she's not counting the minutes 'til Wapner's on? It's either that, or she's a petulant 3-year-old.

GODDAMNIT TALK LIKE A NORMAL PERSON WHEN ADDRESSED! WHAT'S YOUR FAVORITE COLOR!? WHAT FLAVOR ICE-CREAM DO YOU LIKE!? DO YOU KNOW ANDREA!?

[silence]

She could have been a kick-ass character. Hell, Clint Eastwood said maybe twenty words in his spaghetti westerns and everyone loved him. Instead, she's moved to the top of my Next Zombie Victim list, having elbowed Merle aside with a silent scowl. Hey, is she getting paid scale if she doesn't speak during an episode?

Rick's graduating from aural to visual hallucinations. Great. At this rate everyone's going to be on my list. Is it too late to spin off Daryl, Glen & Maggie onto another show? Screw it. A nickel says Glen and Maggie get the uncommunicative sulks after their run-in with the governor.

Scupper
02-11-2013, 04:10 AM
Seriously. Are they paying her by the line?

SenorBeef
02-11-2013, 05:09 AM
Would've been more dramatic and more ambiguous if Merle was actually thankful for the rescue and seemed willing to play ball with the group. Rick could've read it for an act and still booted him, but they made it an easy decision by making Merle such a gigantic asshole who can't play nice for 5 minutes when he needs to.

SenorBeef
02-11-2013, 05:15 AM
Also, Andrea's rally the troops speech to the town has to be one of the lamest speeches of those sorts ever. I think I took a quick nap during it.

Red Barchetta
02-11-2013, 05:19 AM
God that was a boring episode. Hopefully it picks up soon

salinqmind
02-11-2013, 08:22 AM
AMC's airing repeats tonight and Friday at 10pm.

This coming Friday at 10 p.m., and this latest episode will be shown at 8 p.m. next Sunday before the new one. (which will be repeated, what, three times after midnight Sunday)/

Courk
02-11-2013, 08:46 AM
Would've been more dramatic and more ambiguous if Merle was actually thankful for the rescue and seemed willing to play ball with the group. Rick could've read it for an act and still booted him, but they made it an easy decision by making Merle such a gigantic asshole who can't play nice for 5 minutes when he needs to.

Considering he out-right tried to murder Glenn, and didn't do any favors for Maggie, I'm not sure there's much there to begin to work with to play nice. If Michone was the only one he tried to kill, there'd be more possibility since they don't trust her and might believe parts of whatever spin Merle would give it. Add to that the fact that Merle hates Rick for leaving him on that roof, so Merle doesn't have much incentive to even want to stay with the group.

All along Merle's said he wants his brother. What better way to get Daryl than to act like a jerk to the group Merle hates anyway, forcing an ultimatum? Even though Daryl's changed, it's partly because he started seeing the group as family, so of course he has strong loyalty to his actual family. Merle knows Daryl well enough to know that and was probably banking on Daryl choosing him over the group.

To me, that scene was completely in character for Daryl, especially where he's a bit sad to be leaving the group, passing along goodbyes to the people not there. And he doesn't leave angry, just disappointed, another sign of his growth. Season 1 and even early season 2 Daryl would have left in a cloud of anger.

lost4life
02-11-2013, 08:54 AM
Could someone give me a quick bullet point spoiler of what happened? Thanks!

Courk
02-11-2013, 09:13 AM
Merle and Daryl are forced to fight. Merle seems to be winning, but tells Daryl to follow his lead to get out of there.
Rick and Maggie show up to rescue Daryl, Merle comes with them.
Glenn and Michone hate Merle. Merle is a huge jerk. Rick knocks him out. Daryl, Rick, Glenn, and Maggie discuss what do to with Merle and Michone. They don't want either in the group, but Michone is too injured to send off yet. Daryl and Merle go off on their own.

Woodbury is in a panic, residents want to leave. Some zombies get in through the hole our heroes left in the fence and attack some people. The governor is pretty distant to the townspeople. Andrea makes a speech to them to get them to stay. At some point the governor comes clean about her old group being alive and Glenn and Maggie being there.

Ben's dad wants to take on who is left at the prison, but Tyrese and his daughter show they are decent people by preventing that. Rick and co. return, lots of lamenting the loss of Daryl. Maggie and Glenn aren't speaking. Glenn wants the governor dead. Rick doesn't want Tyrese and co. to stay, Herschel thinks they should trust more people, but then Rick sees Lori and flips out.

Folacin
02-11-2013, 09:16 AM
I would have loved to have seen the two new folks try to take out the 'woman and the boy'. Ty and his wife weren't going to play along, but even if they had - I don't think think I'd bet against Carl or Carol.

LurkerInNJ
02-11-2013, 10:45 AM
I would have loved to have seen the two new folks try to take out the 'woman and the boy'. Ty and his wife weren't going to play along, but even if they had - I don't think think I'd bet against Carl or Carol.

Me either. I got a good laugh at that line.

I think Daryl and Merle will show up at the prison. Too many walking dead are walking around and there really is no other secure place to be in the area at this point. They can't be in the woods killing 24/7. Daryl has to return. Also, he is in love with Carol, and he isn't going to forget that long term over his knee jerk reaction to the reunion with Merle.

Rick needs Michonne's fighting skills and I think the herds are going to force Tyrese back into the prison.

bouv
02-11-2013, 10:47 AM
God, I want Andrea to die so fucking bad. Her character is completely pointless at this point, and clueless as well.

"Oh, the woman that kept me alive for several months is fighting with some guy I've known for two weeks. Oh yeah, he also had a room full of zombie heads in fish tanks, and is crying while cradling what can only be his double-dead zombie daughter...but no, I'm going to go ahead and stay with him, never questioning him about the incident, even after he admits to kidnapping a couple friends of mine."

Of course, Michonne is a close second, since she didn't bother to tell Andrea all this useful info she has about the shit The Governor was up to. I mean...he told Andrea he had Glenn and Maggie, and Michonne could have at least told her that Glenn was beaten to within an inch of his life, and Merle tried to kill him with a walker. Oh, and The Governor sexually assaulted Maggie, and killed that national Guard members in cold blood.

Drama that only arises from lazy writing and bad characters isn't good. It would have been interesting for Andrea to actually get the whole story, but still decide to stay be cause she feels Woodbury is safer, and it's all for "the greater good," and she slowly turns into a kind of "ends justify the means" kind of person.

But nope, instead she'll just give a God-awful cliched speech. :rolleyes:

AngelSoft
02-11-2013, 10:56 AM
That's one big baby for only being a week old.

Well last night it was clear to me why she died in childbirth. Good lord, no woman could have pushed that thing out without splitting herself in half.

I would have loved to have seen the two new folks try to take out the 'woman and the boy'. Ty and his wife weren't going to play along, but even if they had - I don't think think I'd bet against Carl or Carol.

It's actually his daughter. But I thought it was kind of contrived that there's always people in the group who want to kill everyone. I guess they might be dying soon? Getting set up as assholes so we won't feel so bad about their deaths. I hope so. I'm not really feeling the father/son characters.

I agree that overall it was a pretty mediocre episode. Andrea is already driving me nuts for the reasons mentioned. I mean, ffs Andrea. The sex can't be that good. I was a bit upset about Daryl leaving but, like someone else said, it was completely in character. Actually, for a bit I was certain that Rick was gonna cave and let Merle join the group, though maybe lock him up or something. I'm wondering how they're going to get Daryl back without Merle.

carnivorousplant
02-11-2013, 11:18 AM
But I thought it was kind of contrived that there's always people in the group who want to kill everyone. I guess they might be dying soon?

Given that Oscar, Latest Token Black Guy, bought the farm, I'd be sure Ty's life insurance is paid up.
:)

randwill
02-11-2013, 11:20 AM
I'm wondering how they're going to get Daryl back without Merle.

I'm guessing it'll involve zombies.

Human Action
02-11-2013, 11:39 AM
I'm particularly irritated by the way the show has treated the residents of Woodbury. They are somehow both soft and spoiled by a barbecue and picnic filled life inside the walls, ignorant of the real dangers of the post-zombie world; and crave bloodsport and brutal capital punishment like mindless, leering savages. There is no connection between the Woodbury people we see on the town streets and the way others speak of them, and the lynch mob slavering over human pain in the gladiator pit, when they are supposedly the same group.

Quimby
02-11-2013, 11:41 AM
I liked this episode. It was talky but the story needed an episode like this because so much was happening.

Michonne as a character is ridiculous and needs to be fixed or abandoned.

Rick being crazy feels like it will get old fast.

I felt bad for Darryl. He has indeed grown but Merle is such a huge personality, it is easy for him to backslide. I don't expect it to last long though. As soon as they have moral choices to make Daryl will realize his mistake and move on without his brother.

lost4life
02-11-2013, 11:43 AM
Merle and Daryl are forced to fight. Merle seems to be winning, but tells Daryl to follow his lead to get out of there.
Rick and Maggie show up to rescue Daryl, Merle comes with them.
Glenn and Michone hate Merle. Merle is a huge jerk. Rick knocks him out. Daryl, Rick, Glenn, and Maggie discuss what do to with Merle and Michone. They don't want either in the group, but Michone is too injured to send off yet. Daryl and Merle go off on their own.

Woodbury is in a panic, residents want to leave. Some zombies get in through the hole our heroes left in the fence and attack some people. The governor is pretty distant to the townspeople. Andrea makes a speech to them to get them to stay. At some point the governor comes clean about her old group being alive and Glenn and Maggie being there.

Ben's dad wants to take on who is left at the prison, but Tyrese and his daughter show they are decent people by preventing that. Rick and co. return, lots of lamenting the loss of Daryl. Maggie and Glenn aren't speaking. Glenn wants the governor dead. Rick doesn't want Tyrese and co. to stay, Herschel thinks they should trust more people, but then Rick sees Lori and flips out.

Thanks!

gytalf2000
02-11-2013, 12:27 PM
I was hoping that Rick would let Merle join the group. Merle is a complete jerk, but for some reason I find him entertaining.

Human Action
02-11-2013, 12:30 PM
I was hoping that Rick would let Merle join the group. Merle is a complete jerk, but for some reason I find him entertaining.

Because Michael Rooker is a charismatic, talented actor, who makes the rest of the cast look like a bunch of mopey stiffs? That's my reason, anyway.

ETA: Michael Raymond-James had the same effect in his brief appearance in season 2 ("Nebraska", one of the thugs Rick shot).

Bryan Ekers
02-11-2013, 12:39 PM
Rick being crazy feels like it will get old fast.

Normally "I see dead people" wouldn't be a problem in a zombie show.

YogSothoth
02-11-2013, 01:08 PM
Stuff I liked:

Daryl leaving (love the internal conflict, the realistic in-character portrayal)
Governor preparing for war, telling Andrea to fuck off
Glenn stepping up instead of being at everyone's beck and call, showing toughness
Hershel replacing Dale as the soul of the group, but with less "holier-than-thou" attitude
Tyreese's group and their inter-group conflict
Conflict between the Woodbury residents

Stuff I didn't like:

Ghost Lori. Just let Rick be himself again, stop fucking with him from beyond the grave
The odd Becky kiss on Rick's cheek. Please NO god damn romantic subplot
Michonne still not talking
Andrea's Stockholm Syndrome is wearing a bit thin
The strange way Glenn was distancing himself from Maggie after almost giving up his life to save her. He should be grabbing and kissing her and holding her at every chance, not be so wracked with self-conflict that he's driving her away

carnivorousplant
02-11-2013, 01:12 PM
I was hoping that Rick would let Merle join the group. Merle is a complete jerk, but for some reason I find him entertaining.

His propensity to kill people makes him a guy folks don't want to be around. :)

gytalf2000
02-11-2013, 01:15 PM
Because Michael Rooker is a charismatic, talented actor, who makes the rest of the cast look like a bunch of mopey stiffs? That's my reason, anyway.

ETA: Michael Raymond-James had the same effect in his brief appearance in season 2 ("Nebraska", one of the thugs Rick shot).


Yeah, that's right. His voice gets on my nerves, but I still find him intriguing. Very good actor!

SenorBeef
02-11-2013, 03:00 PM
ETA: Michael Raymond-James had the same effect in his brief appearance in season 2 ("Nebraska", one of the thugs Rick shot).

I have no idea how that guy isn't in more stuff. He made that scene the best scene of the entire series.

Courk
02-11-2013, 04:44 PM
This thread seems to be dwindling, but hopefully there's enough life in it to answer my question: What does the title "The Suicide King" refer to?

carnivorousplant
02-11-2013, 04:47 PM
This thread seems to be dwindling, but hopefully there's enough life in it to answer my question: What does the title "The Suicide King" refer to?

The Governor, I thing.

salinqmind
02-11-2013, 04:48 PM
I missed some of it, briefly, why are Glenn and Maggie not talking, again?

Sampiro
02-11-2013, 04:50 PM
Seriously. Are they paying her by the line?

Tyrese and his daughter had most of the black lines. If you have more than two black characters speaking in a mostly white show, by law there must be a spin-off, and they don't have the budget just now.

carnivorousplant
02-11-2013, 04:51 PM
I missed some of it, briefly, why are Glenn and Maggie not talking, again?

Glenn is pissed that they didn't take him on the rescue party, so he could whack the Governor and Merle, but took Maggie, who was abused by the Governor, and no body else whacked the Governor, but indeed brought Merle back with them.

The rest is Girl Stuff.

bouv
02-11-2013, 04:51 PM
The odd Becky kiss on Rick's cheek. Please NO god damn romantic subplot


Well, considering she's only 17, I sure as Hell hope there's no romantic subplot there! :eek:

Besides, we all know Carl was makin' eyes at her, and he totally called dibs. :p

And then there was also that creepy scene with the last surviving inmate (can't remember his name,) trying to hit on her...

carnivorousplant
02-11-2013, 04:57 PM
And then there was also that creepy scene with the last surviving inmate (can't remember his name,) trying to hit on her...

Yeah, but we probably know why he is in prison. :)

Courk
02-11-2013, 05:04 PM
This thread seems to be dwindling, but hopefully there's enough life in it to answer my question: What does the title "The Suicide King" refer to?

The Governor, I thing.

Pretend I'm stupid (or perhaps you don't have to pretend): I'm not getting it. Wikipedia tells me the "suicide king" is the King of Hearts, which is not helping me.

Bryan Ekers
02-11-2013, 05:06 PM
And then there was also that creepy scene with the last surviving inmate (can't remember his name,)

I just call him Larry (and his cellmate Darryl and his other cellmate, Darryl).

Sampiro
02-11-2013, 05:08 PM
Refresh my memory: did Daryl and Carol ever hook up?

carnivorousplant
02-11-2013, 05:13 PM
Pretend I'm stupid (or perhaps you don't have to pretend): I'm not getting it. Wikipedia tells me the "suicide king" is the King of Hearts, which is not helping me.

I think the Gov has said, "Well, fuck it." and it letting the town kill itself by not talking to the populace and calm them down.

On the other hand, the King of Hearts may refer to Glen and his change in behavior with Maggie, Merle and Darryl.

carnivorousplant
02-11-2013, 05:17 PM
Refresh my memory: did Daryl and Carol ever hook up?

I don't recall their Doing the Deed.

asterion
02-11-2013, 07:00 PM
Pretend I'm stupid (or perhaps you don't have to pretend): I'm not getting it. Wikipedia tells me the "suicide king" is the King of Hearts, which is not helping me.

I don't get it either. My first thought was the Governor, now that he's missing an eye, but that's either the Jack of Hearts or of Spades or the King of Diamonds. I have the feeling it was the writers trying to be clever and screwing it up.

jools
02-11-2013, 07:30 PM
I think Suicide King might also refer to Rick having a meltdown and making decisions that could cost them their lives or at least his.

AngelSoft
02-11-2013, 07:37 PM
I don't recall their Doing the Deed.

Me either. As I would specifically remember puking my guts out at the sight.

alphaboi867
02-11-2013, 08:14 PM
Given that Oscar, Latest Token Black Guy, bought the farm, I'd be sure Ty's life insurance is paid up.
:)

The key to his survival is to immediatly kill any and every other black male as soon as they come accross him.

Tangent
02-11-2013, 11:03 PM
Wow! The Walking Dead had 12.3 million viewers last night, with a 6.1 rating in the 18-49 demo. Pretty amazing numbers for a cable series.

carnivorousplant
02-11-2013, 11:17 PM
Wow! The Walking Dead had 12.3 million viewers last night, with a 6.1 rating in the 18-49 demo. Pretty amazing numbers for a cable series.

They are probably just hoping for Maggie and Glen to give it an XXX rating.
:)

carnivorousplant
02-11-2013, 11:21 PM
The key to his survival is to immediatly kill any and every other black male as soon as they come accross him.

Zom...er, walkers seem to take care of that. :rolleyes:

LurkerInNJ
02-12-2013, 11:02 AM
Me either. As I would specifically remember puking my guts out at the sight.

Seriously? Norman Reedus is a former model ... Prada, etc. He cleans up pretty good.
http://flaunt.com/features/120/norman-reedus

and Melissa McBride is a very attractive woman. It's hard to look good when you are wearing filthy shapeless clothing and no make-up. She cleans up nice too. http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/File:Melissa.jpg

Sampiro
02-12-2013, 11:38 AM
Seriously? Norman Reedus is a former model ... Prada, etc. He cleans up pretty good.
http://flaunt.com/features/120/norman-reedus


I saw him at Dragon-Con (Atlanta's miniature version [but still very large] of Comic-Con) and when he entered a room it was Dionysus and the Maenads. Boy has a HUGE female following.

AngelSoft
02-12-2013, 11:50 AM
Seriously? Norman Reedus is a former model ... Prada, etc. He cleans up pretty good.
http://flaunt.com/features/120/norman-reedus

and Melissa McBride is a very attractive woman. It's hard to look good when you are wearing filthy shapeless clothing and no make-up. She cleans up nice too. http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/File:Melissa.jpg

I have no problem with their actors and I agree, they clean up well. But it's more so the idea of their two characters hooking up that just disgusts me. I don't like the idea of them together and I'm annoyed the show seems to be leaning that way. I dunno. I'm not a big Carol fan, so I'm a bit biased.

GrandWino
02-12-2013, 12:18 PM
About the Suicide King thing...

From the bit of reading I've done on the term, the King of Hearts is called this because of the way it looks as if he's stabbing himself in the head with a sword. Apparently though, because the pattern on the arm is different than what the king is wearing (http://squathole.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/king-of-hearts.jpg), there are thoughts that the arm and sword belong to another figure not seen on the card.

So perhaps the term is being used to describe a coup against a leader?

Unauthorized Cinnamon
02-12-2013, 01:02 PM
Yeah, I figured the suicide king referred to either Rick or the Governor (or both), as it's an image of a leader who at first appears to be wielding a sword, but on closer examination may be sticking it in his own head. Seems apt for both of them. (I never noticed the wonky sleeve - that's an interesting take!)

At this point, I'm really wishing they had established Michonne as being on the autism spectrum early on. It could actually be a very interesting exploration of the challenges and advantages (they could show how she fixated on swords and swordplay early in life and thus has those amazing skills) of a condition a growing number of people have, and it would provide great metaphors about communication, cooperation, and how much humans would need to discard niceties in favor of total practicality.

But no. She just fights like a badass and scowls wordlessly at people.

carnivorousplant
02-12-2013, 01:14 PM
At this point, I'm really wishing they had established Michonne as being on the autism spectrum early on.

Is that from the comic? She seemed communicative with Andrea.

SykoSkotty
02-12-2013, 02:11 PM
I'm suddenly amazed - never thought to look up the characters after they've cleaned up.

And the girl who plays Beth (Emily Kinney) is actually 27 years old?!!?

Beth Greene Wiki (http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Emily_Kinney)

As far as who cleans up the best, WINNER (http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Laurie_Holden)

First runner up (http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Emma_Bell)

Second runner up (http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Sonequa_Martin-Green)

Unauthorized Cinnamon
02-12-2013, 02:48 PM
Is that from the comic? She seemed communicative with Andrea.No, sorry if that was misleading. I'm just imagining my own scenario that would fit with her ridiculous level of reticence and be more dramatically satisfying.

ETA: from my limited understanding, lots of people on the autism spectrum are able to speak and interact with others, but may have trouble in unfamiliar situations or with new people, or with intuiting what are generally considered universal social cues. So if we run with my pretend backstory, perhaps she spent enough time with Andrea to warm up to her and feel comfortable speaking, but in high stress situations like dealing with Ricktator KooKooBananas, she clams up.

It's weird - I've heard Michonne is a huge fan favorite among comic readers. I wonder what she's actually like in the books?

gytalf2000
02-12-2013, 02:54 PM
I'm suddenly amazed - never thought to look up the characters after they've cleaned up.

And the girl who plays Beth (Emily Kinney) is actually 27 years old?!!?

Beth Greene Wiki (http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Emily_Kinney)

As far as who cleans up the best, WINNER (http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Laurie_Holden)

First runner up (http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Emma_Bell)

Second runner up (http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Sonequa_Martin-Green)


Hey, excellent choices for winner and the runners-up!

I can't believe that Emily Kinney is actually 27. Wow! Very young-looking actress...

Sampiro
02-12-2013, 03:17 PM
Wow! The Walking Dead had 12.3 million viewers last night, with a 6.1 rating in the 18-49 demo. Pretty amazing numbers for a cable series.

What's even more amazing to me is that The Talking Dead got well over 4 million viewers. In other words, a one hour talk show in which the sole subject of conversation is the preceding one hour show received almost as many viewers as the recent finale of 30 Rock.

Courk
02-12-2013, 03:37 PM
I'm still not totally getting the Suicide King thing, but I'll grant them that it's possibly alluding to future events that were set in motion here. I'll reserve final judgement and settlement of this confusion for after the season finale.

In other news, the sneak peak on AMC has me chomping at the bit to discuss next week.

GrandWino
02-12-2013, 03:44 PM
I'm still not totally getting the Suicide King thing, but I'll grant them that it's possibly alluding to future events that were set in motion here. I'll reserve final judgement and settlement of this confusion for after the season finale.

In other news, the sneak peak on AMC has me chomping at the bit to discuss next week.

Did anyone watch Talking Dead? Was the title discussed there?

Oh, and a nitpick: it's "champing", just fyi.

LurkerInNJ
02-12-2013, 05:56 PM
Did anyone watch Talking Dead? Was the title discussed there?

Wouldn't miss it for the world and no.

marshmallow
02-12-2013, 06:12 PM
Oh, and a nitpick: it's "champing", just fyi.

Chomping at the bit
2,760,000 results

Champing at the bit
297,000 results

You need a time machine to change history.

MacTech
02-12-2013, 09:06 PM
About the Suicide King thing...

From the bit of reading I've done on the term, the King of Hearts is called this because of the way it looks as if he's stabbing himself in the head with a sword. Apparently though, because the pattern on the arm is different than what the king is wearing (http://squathole.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/king-of-hearts.jpg), there are thoughts that the arm and sword belong to another figure not seen on the card.

So perhaps the term is being used to describe a coup against a leader?

Or as Zoidberg would put it....
A king giving himself brain surgery

"Finally, I have a good claw, three human females, a number, and a king giving himself brain surgery

Ellis Dee
02-12-2013, 09:42 PM
"Oh, the woman that kept me alive for several months is fighting with some guy I've known for two weeks. Oh yeah, he also had a room full of zombie heads in fish tanks, and is crying while cradling what can only be his double-dead zombie daughter...but no, I'm going to go ahead and stay with him, never questioning him about the incident, even after he admits to kidnapping a couple friends of mine."She did question him a little. I suppose she could give him the same pass they all (except Shane) gave to Hershel's barn, clinging to the idea that some humantiy was left in walkers. So the Governor's zombie daughter in the closet could be seen as sort of understandable.

He did explictly say that he kept the aquarium heads to remind himself what the world had become. With his rant this episode about how soft the townspeople are, that could actually strengthen his case about the aquarium heads.

Both explanations are pretty weak, but probably sufficient to rationalize away problems with the guy you're banging.

Drama that only arises from lazy writing and bad characters isn't good. It would have been interesting for Andrea to actually get the whole story, but still decide to stay be cause she feels Woodbury is safer, and it's all for "the greater good," and she slowly turns into a kind of "ends justify the means" kind of person.Agreed 100%. That would be so much better.

I'm particularly irritated by the way the show has treated the residents of Woodbury. They are somehow both soft and spoiled by a barbecue and picnic filled life inside the walls, ignorant of the real dangers of the post-zombie world; and crave bloodsport and brutal capital punishment like mindless, leering savages. There is no connection between the Woodbury people we see on the town streets and the way others speak of them, and the lynch mob slavering over human pain in the gladiator pit, when they are supposedly the same group.I don't see a huge disconnect there. The reason mob rule is so frightening is because well-reasoned rational people can quickly devolve into a bloodthirsty mob.


Stuff I didn't like:
[...]
The strange way Glenn was distancing himself from Maggie after almost giving up his life to save her. He should be grabbing and kissing her and holding her at every chance, not be so wracked with self-conflict that he's driving her awaySteven Yeun (who plays Glenn) talked about this on Talking Dead. He said he did a lot of research, and found that spouses of abuse victims often take on the role of abuser. Not that they pick up where the assailant left off, but more just not being very nice to them. He didn't really explain it; just that that's what he found in his research.

I see the way they portray it as pretty believable though, even ignoring what the actor said. At this point, Glenn is probably feeling immense impotent rage, plus probably some unmerited shame, every time he sees Maggie, knowing what she went through and that he was powerless to stop it.

This next bit is probably reading too much into minutia, but I'd also guess he has issues with him not breaking even when the gun was pointed at Maggie's head. It was Maggie who caved when the gun was pointed at Glenn. Glenn could be full of self-hatred for not saving his love or resentful of Maggie for being weak and caving.

In any case, I find it fully believable that they aren't all puppies and rainbows after that kind of trauma. That kind of nightmare could easily tear a relationship apart.

I'm not really feeling the father/son characters.Besides, we all know Carl was makin' eyes at her, and he totally called dibs. :pI see the son as the most logical choice for Beth. How much would it suck to be in a love triangle with Carl? Dude shot his own mother in the head; what's he going to do to some stranger sniffing around his girl?

Wow! The Walking Dead had 12.3 million viewers last night, with a 6.1 rating in the 18-49 demo. Pretty amazing numbers for a cable series.In the 18-49 demo, the Walking Dead is the highest-rated scripted drama on television. Including the networks.

Ellis Dee
02-12-2013, 10:27 PM
From the bit of reading I've done on the term, the King of Hearts is called this because of the way it looks as if he's stabbing himself in the head with a sword. Apparently though, because the pattern on the arm is different than what the king is wearing (http://squathole.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/king-of-hearts.jpg), there are thoughts that the arm and sword belong to another figure not seen on the card.

So perhaps the term is being used to describe a coup against a leader?Supposedly the suicide king represents Charlemagne, Charles VI, or Charles VII. I can't get a definitive read on which. Playing cards themselves were popularized during the reign of Charles VI.

In any case, it seems that the four kings are modeled on four actual kings:

Diamonds: Julius Caeser (rich)
Clubs: Alexander the Great (brutal)
Spades: King David (fair)
Hearts: Charles VI (beloved, but eventually insane so the "suicide" part was added to the picture later)

joyfool
02-12-2013, 10:52 PM
Me either. As I would specifically remember puking my guts out at the sight.

And I'd have to be taping it for all posterity. :p I think Carol has turned into a bit of a badass (and is incredibly attractive) and Daryl is hawt, hawt, HAWT. Yum. They can't get it on fast enough for me.

SenorBeef
02-13-2013, 01:08 AM
I see the way they portray it as pretty believable though, even ignoring what the actor said. At this point, Glenn is probably feeling immense impotent rage, plus probably some unmerited shame, every time he sees Maggie, knowing what she went through and that he was powerless to stop it.


Refresh my memory, but wasn't Maggie explicitly not raped? The worst that happened to her that we know of is that she had to take her shirt off. Yeah, skeevy, but compared to Glenn getting his fucking face beat in repeatedly and making him fight for his life against a zombie while chained up, big fucking deal. I see people in these threads talking about poor maggie this and that, and I think someone in the show echoed that, but I'm pretty sure I'd take "letting someone see you half naked" over "getting beaten half to death and left for dead against a zombie"

AngelSoft
02-13-2013, 01:38 AM
Refresh my memory, but wasn't Maggie explicitly not raped? The worst that happened to her that we know of is that she had to take her shirt off. Yeah, skeevy, but compared to Glenn getting his fucking face beat in repeatedly and making him fight for his life against a zombie while chained up, big fucking deal. I see people in these threads talking about poor maggie this and that, and I think someone in the show echoed that, but I'm pretty sure I'd take "letting someone see you half naked" over "getting beaten half to death and left for dead against a zombie"

It seemed pretty clear to me that the Governor stopped short of actual rape, yah. But I don't think it was ever made clear to Glenn. Unless she mentioned to him that nothing happened and I just don't remember it. Even so, I'm not sure if he believed her. I'm not sure what's going on with him right now, tbh.

Courk
02-13-2013, 04:25 AM
In the end, the Governor didn't actually rape her, but he definitely threatened it and came very close, which would still be a traumatic event.

In Made To Suffer Glenn asks Maggie, "Did he-" to which Maggie responds, "No, I swear." But like AngelSoft said, he might not believe that. Even if he did, there's still a lot of other guilt stuff going on.

Debaser
02-13-2013, 10:22 AM
Steven Yeun (who plays Glenn) talked about this on Talking Dead. He said he did a lot of research, and found that spouses of abuse victims often take on the role of abuser. Not that they pick up where the assailant left off, but more just not being very nice to them. He didn't really explain it; just that that's what he found in his research.


I got this immediately by watching the episode. Maybe not so much "blame" her for what happened, but at the very least there is awkwardness about what happened.

Being assaulted (possibly raped) is bound to impact their relationship, and not in a good way.

I also think this is yet another example of the sloppy writing the show is so often guilty of. Was she raped? I wouldn't be surprised for that to be mentioned in a follow up episode matter of fact as if the audience knows. But at this point it's unclear.

Similarly, it came out in this episode that Michone hadn't told the group about her past with Andrea. Viewers were left wondering if that was withheld, left unsaid and off camera or what was going on.

Human Action
02-13-2013, 10:44 AM
She did question him a little. I suppose she could give him the same pass they all (except Shane) gave to Hershel's barn, clinging to the idea that some humantiy was left in walkers. So the Governor's zombie daughter in the closet could be seen as sort of understandable.

The idea of stashing away a zombified loved one in case a cure was ever developed is perfectly reasonable, to my mind. Treating the loved one as though they were zombified, much less so.

He did explictly say that he kept the aquarium heads to remind himself what the world had become. With his rant this episode about how soft the townspeople are, that could actually strengthen his case about the aquarium heads.

Both explanations are pretty weak, but probably sufficient to rationalize away problems with the guy you're banging.

Yeah, I could buy that explanation too, were I in Andrea's place.

I don't see a huge disconnect there. The reason mob rule is so frightening is because well-reasoned rational people can quickly devolve into a bloodthirsty mob.

Agreed, but it's the switching back and forth that I don't buy. Mobs are formed to do something in times of extreme emotion, they don't get back to barbecue and picnics the next morning.

Steven Yeun (who plays Glenn) talked about this on Talking Dead. He said he did a lot of research, and found that spouses of abuse victims often take on the role of abuser. Not that they pick up where the assailant left off, but more just not being very nice to them. He didn't really explain it; just that that's what he found in his research.

I see the way they portray it as pretty believable though, even ignoring what the actor said. At this point, Glenn is probably feeling immense impotent rage, plus probably some unmerited shame, every time he sees Maggie, knowing what she went through and that he was powerless to stop it.

This next bit is probably reading too much into minutia, but I'd also guess he has issues with him not breaking even when the gun was pointed at Maggie's head. It was Maggie who caved when the gun was pointed at Glenn. Glenn could be full of self-hatred for not saving his love or resentful of Maggie for being weak and caving.

In any case, I find it fully believable that they aren't all puppies and rainbows after that kind of trauma. That kind of nightmare could easily tear a relationship apart.

I think "impotent rage" covers it nicely. Glenn was the same guy that cowered during the gunfight in season 2, he's become a much stronger warrior/man, but was still unable to protect Maggie or to get revenge on their behalf. He may decide to kill someone to vent his rage; Merle if he can be found, or someone else from Woodbury. In the meantime, it is believable for the relationship to be strained.

Eyebrows 0f Doom
02-13-2013, 01:07 PM
I also think this is yet another example of the sloppy writing the show is so often guilty of. Was she raped? I wouldn't be surprised for that to be mentioned in a follow up episode matter of fact as if the audience knows. But at this point it's unclear.


No it's not. It's very clear. The Governer acted like he was going to rape her (whether he would have or not, or was just pretending in order to scare her, is another discussion) but he very obviously stopped before anything happened. All that happened to Maggie is that she was half naked and threatened with rape.

And then when Glen asked Maggie is she was raped she said no.

If you think that's unclear then you missed something.

Dante
02-13-2013, 01:52 PM
Did they explain why Maggie would shoot a zombie in the head instead of The Governor? I mean, you've got a high powered rifle with a scope and the ability to make a head shot on a moving target. Do you shoot:

A. One of the zombies that are being used to menace one of your group.
B. The man who leads the entire town that may be a threat to you. And who stripped you nekked. And had your boyfriend beaten.
C. First B, then A.

Also, how do three zombies sneak up on someone in broad daylight in the middle of a boulevard?

Furious_Marmot
02-13-2013, 02:06 PM
Also, how do three zombies sneak up on someone in broad daylight in the middle of a boulevard?

Those were some smart zombies. They snuck in while everyone was running around in the dark, laid low until the following day, waited until the entire town was gathered at the gate, then sprang their ambush from behind.

Did anyone else think the extras during the Merle/Daryl fight looked amateurish and stagey? "Everybody shake your fist and grimace!"

Bryan Ekers
02-13-2013, 02:32 PM
Watermelon! Watermelon! Watermelon! WATERMELON!

carnivorousplant
02-13-2013, 04:03 PM
Those were some smart zombies. They snuck in while everyone was running around in the dark, laid low until the following day, waited until the entire town was gathered at the gate, then sprang their ambush from behind.



I vaguely remember something about a curfew at night.

LurkerInNJ
02-13-2013, 04:15 PM
Also, how do three zombies sneak up on someone in broad daylight in the middle of a boulevard?

People were distracted and accustomed to being in a zombie-free enclave, so their guard was down.

Furious_Marmot
02-13-2013, 04:18 PM
I vaguely remember something about a curfew at night.

Yes, but recall that the zombies found the hole Merle made almost immediately after our protagonists skedaddled. The whole town, or at least a lot of it, was running around higgledy-piggledy after being attacked twice within a maybe an hour.

Even if everybody cleared out of the arena and went straight indoors after the shooting stopped, the zombies must have been hidden for at least part of the morning while they were packing their crap and forming an unruly mob at the gate.

AngelSoft
02-13-2013, 05:02 PM
Did they explain why Maggie would shoot a zombie in the head instead of The Governor? I mean, you've got a high powered rifle with a scope and the ability to make a head shot on a moving target. Do you shoot:

A. One of the zombies that are being used to menace one of your group.
B. The man who leads the entire town that may be a threat to you. And who stripped you nekked. And had your boyfriend beaten.
C. First B, then A.

Also, how do three zombies sneak up on someone in broad daylight in the middle of a boulevard?

Pretty sure she shot the 'sniper' girl that was training Andrea earlier on.

Edit: Oh wait...she shot a zombie first, I remember. But yeah I think it was Maggie who shot that girl too. Which didn't make much sense.

Furious_Marmot
02-13-2013, 05:18 PM
Pretty sure she shot the 'sniper' girl that was training Andrea earlier on.

Edit: Oh wait...she shot a zombie first, I remember. But yeah I think it was Maggie who shot that girl too. Which didn't make much sense.

Maggie was serving a higher purpose: plot. The sniper girl had to go for narrative purposes. She was the only town guard who had any character development. Because she's ever so slightly more real, her death is a little bit more impactful than the half-dozen or so nameless guys who also bit it.

It also helps to further establish that our protagonists sometimes find themselves in morally murky circumstances in which they kill people who have not done anything wrong.

DigitalC
02-13-2013, 07:52 PM
I wish we had gotten to see what Merle's "play along little brother" was going to lead to.

TBG
02-13-2013, 08:00 PM
I was wondering why Sarah Wayne Callies was still in the credits when T-Dogg's actor wasn't, but didn't count on wacked out Rick hallucinating her. I just thought maybe she had one of those show business deals that meant they had to keep her in there regardless for the rest of the season.

Regarding Talking Dead, good gracious Kevin Smith... Buy some pants if you're gonna be on TV, dude.

alphaboi867
02-13-2013, 08:06 PM
I wish we had gotten to see what Merle's "play along little brother" was going to lead to.

Before Rick showed up I was wondering if Merle would throw the fight so Daryl would win/live. It would've redeemed his character somewhat (though one wonders what the Governor would've done with the survivor).

carnivorousplant
02-13-2013, 08:32 PM
I wish we had gotten to see what Merle's "play along little brother" was going to lead to.

I thought he was going to lull the observers into a false sense of security and then fight a way out with his brother.

Tangent
02-13-2013, 08:32 PM
Regarding Talking Dead, good gracious Kevin Smith... Buy some pants if you're gonna be on TV, dude.

Heh, the way he was dressed on Talking Dead is pretty much the way he dresses all the time no matter what the occasion. Hockey jersey and jean shorts. Sometimes a long overcoat.

TBG
02-13-2013, 08:43 PM
Heh, the way he was dressed on Talking Dead is pretty much the way he dresses all the time no matter what the occasion. Hockey jersey and jean shorts. Sometimes a long overcoat.

I know that, but it doesn't make him any less terrible to see sitting there with his legs pulled up on the couch and a pillow in his lap. At least he actually WASN'T wearing a hockey jersey this time, so maybe there's some hope.

carnivorousplant
02-13-2013, 09:00 PM
I know that, but it doesn't make him any less terrible to see sitting there with his legs pulled up on the couch and a pillow in his lap. At least he actually WASN'T wearing a hockey jersey this time, so maybe there's some hope.

I doubt it.

ruadh
02-17-2013, 05:01 AM
Seriously? Norman Reedus is a former model ... Prada, etc. He cleans up pretty good.

Good enough for Helena Christiansen for a few years, anyway. Pic. (http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://img2.bdbphotos.com/images/orig/d/s/ds8tz8peyuk5d58y.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fanpix.net/1748757/014911902/helena-christensen-and-norman-reedus-picture.html&h=508&w=382&sz=37&tbnid=wv7P1qusQ5HkFM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=74&zoom=1&usg=__YYxE7XJVgudP_clI4-YYwi7pJlM=&docid=f1hCGxXKm9CyWM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KKogUbD3I4W2hAe04YGIBw&ved=0CDcQ9QEwAw&dur=2459)

limegreen
02-17-2013, 12:54 PM
Glenn was beaten to within an inch of his life, and Merle tried to kill him with a walker.

I spent several minutes staring at this and trying to remember when Merle had hit him with a walker, then it dawned on me...zombie. I've been spending too much time with my elderly mother, and maneuvering around her walker. The metal kind. :smack:

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