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View Full Version : ASOIAF/Game Of Thrones, winter is coming?


grude
03-20-2015, 08:17 PM
Just spoil this one thing fully please.

Do the books or show ever explain exactly what winter is going to be like? I get that the one coming is going to be BAD, even by normal in world standards, but what is it going to mean?

Is all of Westeroes and Essoes going to be a frozen snow covered wasteland?

ISiddiqui
03-20-2015, 10:11 PM
Yes, with ice zombies killing everyone. Maybe the South regions will be spared.

It doesn't particularly spoil what it exactly means, but that's the jist.

Suburban Plankton
03-20-2015, 10:21 PM
The folk wisdom in Westeros says that the longer the Summer, the longer and colder the following Winter will be...and apparently the Summer that is now ending was historically long. And with White Walkers, and direwolves, and dragons, and other things that haven't been seen in living memory, it seems pretty clear that whatever is coming, it's going to be like no one alive has ever seen.

Lightray
03-20-2015, 10:36 PM
Quite a lot of Winterfell (and, I think, other holdings in the North) is dedicated to graineries and greenhouses intended to last through years-long Winters; there's no growing seasons during the Winter. Cat at one point is fretting about how her Summer-born youngest sons have never had to deal with the snowfall deeper than men are tall or somesuch. By A Dance With Dragons the Winter's snowfall has begun in the North, and snowdrifts up the walls of Winterfell are multiple manheights tall.

However, that's in the North. In the south, it's not normally as severe. Dorn is hardly affected, and even as far up as King's Landing I don't think it's as bad as what Boston got this year, even.

grude
03-20-2015, 10:42 PM
Thanks, watching the show I was trying to get my head around exactly what the characters are expecting and therefore how dumb or smart they were.

Like a winter where they can still trade with the south or Essoes for food and such for years is one thing, a winter where the entire world won't see a crop harvested in years is a whole different deal.

Lightray
03-20-2015, 10:45 PM
I think the implication that Suburban Plankton is talking about is that while the southern regions aren't normally greatly affected, this Winter may well be bad enough that they will be. And since the heart of the Seven Kingdoms is war-torn and suffering famine already... not so good.

The North will be really bad, since Winterfell (and other holdings) has no stockpiles of food to draw upon for survival.

Reverse
03-20-2015, 10:59 PM
The southern regions are affected to the extent that they can't farm during the winter. There's a whole thing in the books how the war has totally screwed everything up, and King's Landing won't have enough food in stock to keep the peasantry alive if the winter does go on longer than normal. Also, trading with Essos would be quite difficult seeing how the kingdom is bankrupt.

magnusblitz
03-20-2015, 11:07 PM
Well, the last time the Others/White Walkers came out in full force during The Long Night was supposedly around ~8000 years before the current time, so, a lot of it is just left up to legend/myth.

In the World of Ice and Fire book there's reference that the Rhoynar have a legend that during The Long Night, the waters of the Rhonye river (in Essos) were frozen all the way down to where they join the Selhoru. Latitude-wise, this is roughly equal to Oldtown and the northern portion of Dorne - and Dorne is known for being a desert!

So, it's not just that "winter is coming", but there's obvious reason (as a reader/viewer) to think that this is going to be another Long Night, where the freezing cold reaches all the way down to the desert lands.

grude
03-20-2015, 11:22 PM
The southern regions are affected to the extent that they can't farm during the winter. There's a whole thing in the books how the war has totally screwed everything up, and King's Landing won't have enough food in stock to keep the peasantry alive if the winter does go on longer than normal. Also, trading with Essos would be quite difficult seeing how the kingdom is bankrupt.

I know aside from Jon and Bran no one else knows the white walkers are back, but they are still aware there is a bad winter coming right? This seems to go beyond short sighted and more into suicidal insanity then, I mean we see no one really cares about the peasants but you'd think the nobles would at least talk more about the looming food disaster. Or have debated if it was a good moment for a power grabbing war, not much use gaining a castle if you're going to be dismembered and cannibalized by a mob of starving peasants in a year.

Essoes is different since there it was basically Dany deciding on her own to mess stuff up, they would be happily slaving along if not for one person basically.

grude
03-20-2015, 11:29 PM
I almost wondered if the motivation for the timing of the civil wars that the show focused on was characters thinking most of them would not survive the winter anyway, so might as well try to grab as much power as possible before it hits.

Lightray
03-20-2015, 11:35 PM
The Maesters of the Citadel are almost alone in having realized that a long Winter is coming. And mostly no one listens to them. By and large, everyone else in Westeros is content to believe/pretend that their unprecedented long Summer will continue.

Johnny L.A.
03-21-2015, 09:27 AM
The Maesters of the Citadel are almost alone in having realized that a long Winter is coming. And mostly no one listens to them.

That's because the people in power are all pawns of Voldemort.

Biggirl
03-21-2015, 12:00 PM
I know aside from Jon and Bran no one else knows the white walkers are back, but they are still aware there is a bad winter coming right?.

The Night Watch have been warning King's Landing that the White Walkers are walking again. King's Landing refuses to believe it.

DigitalC
03-21-2015, 12:36 PM
Even if people realized the trouble they were in all the main players are still going to feel the best way to end the war is by winning it.

Alessan
03-21-2015, 12:45 PM
The Wall will crumble, the White Walkers will ride south on giant spiders, and a second Long Night will fall.

At least, that's my guess.

Reno Nevada
03-21-2015, 01:10 PM
That's because the people in power are all pawns of Voldemort.


Yes, I think the least likely element of A Song of Fire and Ice is that, faced by an oncoming climactic disaster, the people with power would react by denying the reality of the threat and jockeying for power instead of preparing to mitigate the disaster as much as possible.

Alessan
03-21-2015, 01:46 PM
[Rimshot]

Hector_St_Clare
03-21-2015, 02:02 PM
Well, the last time the Others/White Walkers came out in full force during The Long Night was supposedly around ~8000 years before the current time, so, a lot of it is just left up to legend/myth.

In the World of Ice and Fire book there's reference that the Rhoynar have a legend that during The Long Night, the waters of the Rhonye river (in Essos) were frozen all the way down to where they join the Selhoru. Latitude-wise, this is roughly equal to Oldtown and the northern portion of Dorne - and Dorne is known for being a desert!

So, it's not just that "winter is coming", but there's obvious reason (as a reader/viewer) to think that this is going to be another Long Night, where the freezing cold reaches all the way down to the desert lands.

Temperature isn't solely a function of latitude, it's also effected by water currents, the proximity of bodies of water, altitude and mountain ranges, etc.. (And I guess in a world where magic is real, that too). Dorne is surrounded by water, inland Essos isn't, so you would expect Dorne to be somewhat buffered against temperature extremes (i.e. having a maritime rather than continental climate).

Alessan
03-21-2015, 02:29 PM
But "long night" hints at some sort of "nuclear winter", which influences the entire world equally.

Telperion
03-21-2015, 02:53 PM
But "long night" hints at some sort of "nuclear winter", which influences the entire world equally.

I expect it's more like Polar winters where the sun doesn't rise for six months. Or maybe longer than that, it's pretty hard to tell how Westerosi climate works.

N9IWP
03-21-2015, 02:57 PM
IIRC the previous winter was fairly mild which contributes to most folks not being concerned about it.

Brian

Alessan
03-21-2015, 04:40 PM
I expect it's more like Polar winters where the sun doesn't rise for six months. Or maybe longer than that, it's pretty hard to tell how Westerosi climate works.

The Long Night was supposed to have lasted a generation, and affected places as far south as Yi Ti (the world's China analog). It was an exceptional event that is remembered thousands and thousands of years later. Sounds like a nuclear winter to me.

Johnny L.A.
03-21-2015, 05:04 PM
I'd just like to see that world's solar system and orbits, so that I could understand their seasons that endure for many revolutions.

Alessan
03-21-2015, 05:26 PM
I'd just like to see that world's solar system and orbits, so that I could understand their seasons that endure for many revolutions.

I suspect you'll find them similar to our own, and that the anomalies are caused by magic, not orbital mechanics.

Johnny L.A.
03-21-2015, 05:38 PM
I suspect you'll find them similar to our own, and that the anomalies are caused by magic, not orbital mechanics.

I don't want magic! I want orbital dynamics! :mad:

tavalla
03-21-2015, 06:00 PM
Apparently it's magic, and yet to be revealed (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Westeros#Seasons_and_climate).

Johnny L.A.
03-21-2015, 06:21 PM
Apparently it's magic, and yet to be revealed (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Westeros#Seasons_and_climate).

Well, that's unsatisfying.

Alessan
03-21-2015, 06:31 PM
You're complaining about the presence of magic in a high fantasy series?

Tamerlane
03-21-2015, 06:36 PM
You're complaining about the presence of magic in a high fantasy series?

Ah, c'mon man - it's medium fantasy at best ;).

keeper0
03-22-2015, 12:17 AM
Ah, c'mon man - it's medium fantasy at best ;).

Or "hung over with a pounding headache" fantasy. I very rarely feel "high" when reading it.

buddha_david
03-22-2015, 03:49 AM
I don't want magic! I want orbital dynamics! :mad:
Here ya go:

Climate and Astronomy in Game of Thrones (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKrn4P4c5ps)

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