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Don't Panic
03-22-2015, 09:44 PM
So I was just watching The Snowman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Snowman), the British animated children's film. It's about a boy who builds a snowman on a winter's evening. Said snowman comes to life, and the two mess around the house and the neighborhood. The centerpiece of the movie is the musical number "Walking in the Air (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubeVUnGQOIk)" (which I was teaching myself to play on the guitar, and the reason I was watching this thing in the first place, but anyway), which plays over a scene where...

Wait, hang on...

OPEN SPOILERS ahead for a 1982 animated children's film. There, you're warned.

...a scene where the snowman and the boy take flight, and proceed to fly over the town of Brighton. They continue onwards over the sea, and fly to the North Pole, where they meet Santa Claus and a bunch of other snowmen. On the way they pass various people, landscapes and animals, including some penguins.

What? OK, that's just stupid.

As everyone knows, Santa lives on the North Pole. Penguins live near the South Pole. You idiots.

Ruined the film for me, that did. The fact that it all plays mostly like a dream sequence is no excuse. OK, in the real world there are also no such things as flying sentient snowmen. Or Santa. Those parts, however, didn't bother me at all. But get your penguin habitats right.

burpo the wonder mutt
03-22-2015, 10:04 PM
On a similar note: Whenever Hollywood does an Arctic/Antarctic movie, nobody ever breathes out steam.

Trinopus
03-23-2015, 12:36 AM
Much the same vein: bad snow. Snow that is obviously shredded plastic.

I don't worry about Doctor Manhattan and Rohrschach and Adrian Veidt -- but bad snow really cheeses me. James Bond can chase nuclear warheads all over the Alps -- but bad snow makes me stop caring. Young Spock can go into Pon Farr over and over, and that's fine -- but that stupid Styrofoam snow got my goat.

MrDibble
03-23-2015, 01:13 AM
As everyone knows, Santa lives on the North Pole.
That's just what the Borealists want you to think - why would he live on melty sea ice, when he could have a whole continent practically to himself and his minions. Don't buy into the Northspiracy, sheeple!

Let me also give you my pamphlet on how Rudolph and the flying reindeer are Elder Things...

erysichthon
03-23-2015, 07:12 AM
One mundane thing that's always bothered me about Back to the Future is the kiddie walkie-talkies that Doc Brown picks up to communicate with Marty. I had a pair of those when I was a kid, and they worked just fine as long as both units weren't more than ten or fifteen feet apart. I have no problem accepting a time-traveling car, but cheap-ass walkie-talkies that let you talk to someone on the other side of town? Forget it.

Oh, and I also get irritated by the "sports almanac" that turns up in BTTF2. It supposedly lists the outcome of every sporting event for decades, but it's as thin as a comic book.

GuanoLad
03-23-2015, 07:49 AM
In a fantasy novel, I can accept that the book is written in English, but the conceit is the characters aren't actually talking in English. It's "translated" even though that's not really what is happening.

I accept all that, that is, until a particular turn of phrase, a colloquialism that has a definitive earth-history origin, is spoken by one of the characters. So the evil dark elf wizard says "That's putting the cart before the horse!" or the Queen of Durrendale Kingdom says "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched!"

It is glaring.

marshmallow
03-23-2015, 07:54 AM
I accept all that, that is, until a particular turn of phrase, a colloquialism that has a definitive earth-history origin, is spoken by one of the characters. So the evil dark elf wizard says "That's putting the cart before the horse!" or the Queen of Durrendale Kingdom says "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched!"

It is glaring.

Why? Does the world not have domesticated horses or chickens?

GuanoLad
03-23-2015, 07:58 AM
Why? Does the world not have domesticated horses or chickens?Because the phrase has an origin you can pinpoint here in our very specific and genuine history of Earth, not on the fantastical World of Erania.

Ethilrist
03-23-2015, 08:04 AM
Everybody speaks English. Foreign country? English. Different planet? English. Different galaxy or dimension? English. Distant past, before English came to be as a language? English.

Stargate, I'm lookin' at you...

Superdude
03-23-2015, 08:10 AM
In a fantasy novel, I can accept that the book is written in English, but the conceit is the characters aren't actually talking in English. It's "translated" even though that's not really what is happening.

I accept all that, that is, until a particular turn of phrase, a colloquialism that has a definitive earth-history origin, is spoken by one of the characters. So the evil dark elf wizard says "That's putting the cart before the horse!" or the Queen of Durrendale Kingdom says "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched!"

It is glaring.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels like this. I spend a lot of time playing the MMORPG Star Wars: The Old Republic (http://www.swtor.com/), and, occasionally, I find little snippets of dialogue that pull me out of the story. One particular example was a Jedi saying, "eat lightsaber, jerk!"

That insult "jerk" bothered me. I could buy it, maybe, if it were said in an alien language (the game features voice acting), and subtitled into English. But it's said in English (well, what's called "Basic" in the Star Wars universe), and I have trouble believing that the word "jerk" has the same equivalent to today's term.

DrFidelius
03-23-2015, 08:18 AM
In a fantasy novel, I can accept that the book is written in English, but the conceit is the characters aren't actually talking in English. It's "translated" even though that's not really what is happening.

I accept all that, that is, until a particular turn of phrase, a colloquialism that has a definitive earth-history origin, is spoken by one of the characters. So the evil dark elf wizard says "That's putting the cart before the horse!" or the Queen of Durrendale Kingdom says "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched!"

It is glaring.

Those don't bother me, as I assume the translator understands idioms and is using the appropriate English phrase to express the Ruritanian cliche.

However, "Don't count your fire-lizards before they hatch" or "Putting the hippogriff before the cart" constructions always strikes me as calling a rabbit a smeerp.

Jophiel
03-23-2015, 08:27 AM
In a fantasy novel, I can accept that the book is written in English, but the conceit is the characters aren't actually talking in English. It's "translated" even though that's not really what is happening.

I accept all that, that is, until a particular turn of phrase, a colloquialism that has a definitive earth-history origin, is spoken by one of the characters. So the evil dark elf wizard says "That's putting the cart before the horse!" or the Queen of Durrendale Kingdom says "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched!"
Related, in the video game Dragon Age Origins, one of the characters speaks in a pronounced, almost silly, French accent as she comes from another country. I let it roll because I accept it as a device saying "Hey, she's not from around here".

In a follow-up game, Dragon Age Inquisition, you have people from that country actually speaking in French. Not just a borrowed word here or there but full phrases. That bothers me more because now it's not some France-like fantasy medieval kingdom, it's "actually" France. Except that it's not.

Alessan
03-23-2015, 08:30 AM
Because the phrase has an origin you can pinpoint here in our very specific and genuine history of Earth, not on the fantastical World of Erania.

I translate for a living, and when translating idioms I always try to find phrase with the same general meaning and connotations in the target language, even if the actual words are completely different. IMHO, a perfect translation is one where readers have no idea they're reading a translation.

I just look at works of fantasy as perfect translations.

gallows fodder
03-23-2015, 08:34 AM
Because the phrase has an origin you can pinpoint here in our very specific and genuine history of Earth, not on the fantastical World of Erania.

On that note, I get really, really bugged by fantasy authors using phrases from the Bible. Your fantasy characters set in a different world from ours should not be saying things like "swords into plowshares," "cast pearls before swine," "wolf in sheep's clothing," "you reap what you sow," etc.

E: Pretty dang sure that GRRM used "swords into plowshares" somewhere in A Song of Ice and Fire.

buddha_david
03-23-2015, 08:38 AM
In Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings, when Minas Tirith is shown as a giant walled city towering high above a flat, featureless, thoroughly uninhabited plain, my first thought always is: "Where do these people grow their crops?"

JKilez
03-23-2015, 08:40 AM
Much the same vein: bad snow. Snow that is obviously shredded plastic.
Yes, particularly snow that sticks to people's faces.

Alessan
03-23-2015, 08:47 AM
In Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings, when Minas Tirith is shown as a giant walled city towering high above a flat, featureless, thoroughly uninhabited plain, my first thought always is: "Where do these people grow their crops?"

The city was on the front line of a war - the farms had probably all been burned ages ago, and the forests cut down to provide clear lines of sight. OTOH, a river flowed nearby, and was probably used to ship food to the city.

GuanoLad
03-23-2015, 08:56 AM
However, "Don't count your fire-lizards before they hatch" or "Putting the hippogriff before the cart" constructions always strikes me as calling a rabbit a smeerp.Exactly. If it was me, I'd try to come up with a completely unique phrase that nonetheless has the same point to it. And, to be fair, many authors do do that quite successfully, which I have great respect for.

TCMF-2L
03-23-2015, 09:22 AM
"Why, you stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerd-herder!"

"Who's scruffy-looking?"

Princess Leia Organa and Han Solo

TCMF-2L

Ethilrist
03-23-2015, 09:33 AM
The city was on the front line of a war - the farms had probably all been burned ages ago, and the forests cut down to provide clear lines of sight. OTOH, a river flowed nearby, and was probably used to ship food to the city.

Yeah, they used to have this town called Osgiliath down on the river; it's suffering a bit of an orc infestation as we see in The Two Towers.

And all that featureless plain is supposed to be farmland. I imagine it would be tricky explaining the cavalry charges and such if there were fences and walls and irrigation ditches in the way. The roads would have been handy for the siege engines, though.

CalMeacham
03-23-2015, 10:02 AM
I've said it before -- Steven Spielberg utterly shattered by Suspension of Disbelief at the beginning of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom when he has Indy, Willi, and Short Round jump out of the falling plane in an inflatable raft, which falls none too softly on the snow, careens down the snowpack of the edge of a cliff into a river, lands in the river and goes through roaring rapids. And nobody gets hurt. There should be multiple broken bones at a minimum, and a triple death more likely, but they have not a scratch.

Bothered me mightily, that did. And this in a movie with magical glowing shankara stones, a guy reaching into another guy's chest and pulling out his heart, the guy's chest wall magically healing, and the now-heartless guy not expiring. Not to mention a cave full of insects with no obvious means of support. None of that bothered me all that much, but I had a hard time getting over that raft parachuting.

RikWriter
03-23-2015, 10:19 AM
"Why, you stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerd-herder!"

"Who's scruffy-looking?"

Princess Leia Organa and Han Solo

TCMF-2L

It was nerf-herder.

Left Hand of Dorkness
03-23-2015, 10:26 AM
In a fantasy novel, I can accept that the book is written in English, but the conceit is the characters aren't actually talking in English. It's "translated" even though that's not really what is happening.

I accept all that, that is, until a particular turn of phrase, a colloquialism that has a definitive earth-history origin, is spoken by one of the characters. So the evil dark elf wizard says "That's putting the cart before the horse!" or the Queen of Durrendale Kingdom says "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched!"

It is glaring.What annoys me is in almost exactly the opposite direction. I just read The Goblin Emperor, a lovely new book of court intrigue.

Except.

Characters were variously identified by some combination of their first names, their last names, and their titles. All of these were multisyllabic and idiosyncratically inflected according to a system the author came up with.

First name and last name, I can barely deal with. But don't invent a whole new word for "Sir" and "Madame," goddammit. The whole book is presumably translated from whatever language the goblins and elves speak; go ahead and translate the words for "Sir" and "Madame" while you're at it! Same for words like "Advisor" and "Guard": your fancy schmancy elven words for these job positions can get translated along with everything else.

Foggy
03-23-2015, 10:30 AM
It was nerf-herder.

..but nerd-herder is more accurate, at least now a days. :p

buddha_david
03-23-2015, 10:39 AM
..but nerd-herder is more accurate, at least now a days. :p
I always thought the line was "nerve-hurter", which actually makes more sense. (What the hell is a "nerf"??)

CalMeacham
03-23-2015, 10:42 AM
I always thought the line was "nerve-hurter", which actually makes more sense. (What the hell is a "nerf"??)

It's the soft, doughy creature from which Nerf Balls and the projectiles of Nerf Guns are harvested.

Don't worry -- it doesn't hurt them, and the Nerf grows back in time for the next harvest.

burpo the wonder mutt
03-23-2015, 10:46 AM
In Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings, when Minas Tirith is shown as a giant walled city towering high above a flat, featureless, thoroughly uninhabited plain, my first thought always is: "Where do these people grow their crops?"

They eat out a lot. :)

(sorry, b_d)

The Hamster King
03-23-2015, 10:53 AM
Yeah, they used to have this town called Osgiliath down on the river; it's suffering a bit of an orc infestation as we see in The Two Towers.Osgiliath is a perfect example of what the OP is asking about.

In Jackson's movies, Frodo and Sam use the sewers of Osgiliath to cross undetected under the river.

Except ... why is there a sewer UNDER THE RIVER? Where is it flowing to? You build sewers to drain INTO rivers, not underneath them.

My wife has heard me rant about this many times.

xizor
03-23-2015, 11:53 AM
Because the phrase has an origin you can pinpoint here in our very specific and genuine history of Earth, not on the fantastical World of Erania.

One thousand times yes GuanoLad! This is my most hated thing about The Chronicles of Riddick, when they tell him he is "all 'back of the bus'". Back of the bus is such an Earth-centric phrase it makes my ears do a record scratch sound when used in a alien world setting.

MrDibble
03-23-2015, 12:16 PM
In Jackson's movies, Frodo and Sam use the sewers of Osgiliath to cross undetected under the river.
They do? Not in any bit I can remember - they are already on the Eastern shore when Faramir finds them.

DrDeth
03-23-2015, 01:27 PM
What annoys me is in almost exactly the opposite direction. I just read The Goblin Emperor, a lovely new book of court intrigue.

Except.

Characters were variously identified by some combination of their first names, their last names, and their titles. All of these were multisyllabic and idiosyncratically inflected according to a system the author came up with.

First name and last name, I can barely deal with. But don't invent a whole new word for "Sir" and "Madame," goddammit. The whole book is presumably translated from whatever language the goblins and elves speak; go ahead and translate the words for "Sir" and "Madame" while you're at it! Same for words like "Advisor" and "Guard": your fancy schmancy elven words for these job positions can get translated along with everything else.

Right, either translate it all or dont. And since you pretty much have to translate it- go all the way.

I like the way Vance used to do it with an occasional "untranslatable" word which was always footnoted. Nice.

billfish678
03-23-2015, 01:34 PM
Osgiliath is a perfect example of what the OP is asking about.

In Jackson's movies, Frodo and Sam use the sewers of Osgiliath to cross undetected under the river.

Except ...why is there a sewer UNDER THE RIVER? Where is it flowing to? You build sewers to drain INTO rivers, not underneath them.

My wife has heard me rant about this many times.

Its possible. UNLIKEY mind you but possible. You kind of need special geological/geopgraphic conditions. So, I still feel your pain.

Long Time First Time
03-23-2015, 01:37 PM
What ruins stuff for me is when they have animals perform behaviors that are not natural. Horses do not whinny all the time, yet in every movie they play a horse whinny to alert the viewer that horses are coming.

A scared horse/cow/bunny/90% of all prey animals don't make noises when they are trapped or hurt.

Quercus
03-23-2015, 01:43 PM
On that note, I get really, really bugged by fantasy authors using phrases from the Bible. Your fantasy characters set in a different world from ours should not be saying things like "swords into plowshares," "cast pearls before swine," "wolf in sheep's clothing," "you reap what you sow," etc.Can't we assume there was a classic well-known and quoted-to-the-point-of-cliché book in the fantasy world with a similar-meaning phrase, and the translator did a good job? I mean, if someone was translating from Spanish, and the original had a similar phrase from Don Quixote, wouldn't using a similar-meaning Shakespeare quote be the best translation? So assume there's an equivalent book in the fantasy world.

In Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings, when Minas Tirith is shown as a giant walled city towering high above a flat, featureless, thoroughly uninhabited plain, my first thought always is: "Where do these people grow their crops?"IIRC, In the books, they invaders are explicitly described as burning haystacks and farms in the plain.

First name and last name, I can barely deal with. But don't invent a whole new word for "Sir" and "Madame," goddammit. The whole book is presumably translated from whatever language the goblins and elves speak; go ahead and translate the words for "Sir" and "Madame" while you're at it! Same for words like "Advisor" and "Guard": your fancy schmancy elven words for these job positions can get translated along with everything else.s always, Relevant XCKD (https://xkcd.com/483/)

Grumman
03-23-2015, 01:49 PM
One thousand times yes GuanoLad! This is my most hated thing about The Chronicles of Riddick, when they tell him he is "all 'back of the bus'". Back of the bus is such an Earth-centric phrase it makes my ears do a record scratch sound when used in a alien world setting.
Riddick used an Earth idiom because Earth explictly exists in the Riddick movies:

JOHNS: What the hell are these?

PARIS: Maratha crow-bill war-picks from Northern India. Very rare.

ZEKE: An' this?

PARIS: Blow-dart hunting stick from Papua New Guinea. Very very rare, since the tribe's extinct.

ZEKE: 'Cuz they couldn't hunt shit with these things, be my guess.

The Hamster King
03-23-2015, 02:09 PM
They do? Not in any bit I can remember - they are already on the Eastern shore when Faramir finds them.Yup. He does find them east of Osgiliath, but then he takes them to the western shore of the city. (This is a deviation from the books. In the books he doesn't take them to Osgiliath at all.) The eastern shore of the city is held by the forces of Mordor and there's a whole amphibious assault bit later where the orcs cross the river in boats to attack the men on the western shore.

Faramir even describes the silliness explicitly: "This is the old sewer. It runs right under the river through to the edge of the city. You'll find cover in the woods there." :dubious:

Ethilrist
03-23-2015, 02:40 PM
Middle Earth is so old, they build their rivers on the ruins of old cities, then they build new cities on top of that.

wonky
03-23-2015, 02:56 PM
I don't know if this is exactly what the OP is looking for, but I hate when fantasy worlds are almost-but-not-quite geographically Earth, so that I feel like I'm spending most of my brainpower separating fact from fiction rather than just enjoying the fiction.

Balance
03-23-2015, 03:20 PM
Faramir even describes the silliness explicitly: "This is the old sewer. It runs right under the river through to the edge of the city. You'll find cover in the woods there." :dubious:
The word he actually used in his native Westron would likely have been nîn-phûru; the literal translation is "water-delving". Faramir was probably using it to mean "river tunnel"--an escape or sally tunnel that passed under the river. The term would have been somewhat dated, but given that the tunnel was an old construction, an archaic place-name would not be out of place.

The translators of the Red Book have a tradition of attention to detail, but perhaps we can forgive such a small slip as taking an archaic word for "water tunnel" to mean "sewer".

:D

Skywatcher
03-23-2015, 03:35 PM
Some ludicrously large lizard lumbering about lower Manhattan without its stomping setting off car alarms. And that was in the previews.

Lemur866
03-23-2015, 04:17 PM
The one that always breaks suspension of disbelief for me is the behavior of predators.

Hero is trudging through the jungle, oblivious. Suddenly he hears a loud roar. He turns around slowly, and there's a lion/thanator/grizzly/killbot. The predator does another threat display. The hero turns and runs, the predator waits for a second and then takes off chasing the hero.

Why did the lion roar? In real life, if a lion was behind you and about to pounce, it wouldn't roar. It would pounce on you from behind. Lions don't believe in fair fights. Neither do killbots or Denebian Slime Devils. Or patrolling soldiers. I don't know how many soldiers sneak up just behind the hero, have their gun pointed at the hero's head, yell "Freeze!", at which the hero whips around, pulls out his gun, and shoots the soldier dead.

For some reason they always shoot human minions who do this, but always run away from predators who do this.

Clawdio
03-23-2015, 04:23 PM
In most epic fantasy:

Our heroes have had a long grueling day, either traveling from one end of the fantastical world to the other or fighting baddies and when they need refreshment they almost always reach for the wine.

Mostly empty stomach, long strenuous day? everyone would be smashed or napping in less than 30 mins....

Edited to add: and almost never hungover... unless its a plot point.

burpo the wonder mutt
03-23-2015, 04:42 PM
When two guys are fighting (unless it's a martial arts film), the combatants will make no noises except for the smack of fist (or what-have-you) on face (or what-have-you). If two women are fighting, it will sound like Monica Seles playing herself in a tennis match: grunting, yelling, and most of it coming from the one throwing the punch at the time, not the one getting smacked.

Don't Panic
03-23-2015, 05:02 PM
In most epic fantasy:

Our heroes have had a long grueling day, either traveling from one end of the fantastical world to the other or fighting baddies and when they need refreshment they almost always reach for the wine.

Mostly empty stomach, long strenuous day? everyone would be smashed or napping in less than 30 mins....
I don't know about this. If most epic fantasy is anything like actual world history, this doesn't sound too unrealistic. In the ancient world, wine was pretty ubiquitous (or other kinds of alcoholic beverages, depending on location). Note that the wine would usually be cut heavily with water, so I suppose that you could assume this to be the case in a fantasy setting as well. A wine-water mix would often be safer to drink than the local water taken straight. Alcohol kills germs and prevents you from getting the runs or worse (of course, in the olden days people didn't know about the bacteria, but they did know this from experience). Only a barbarian would drink their wine straight (or, famously, a Macedonian... see the biography of Alexander the Great for how well that would sometimes work out).

Wine was also tangled up in all kinds of cultural and religious rituals and practices. And, yes, pretty good for simply getting smashed, if that was your goal. There was no shortage of that going on.

As I said, the wine was usually cut with water, so people didn't spend all their time drunk as skunks. In fairness, though, considering how much of it was still consumed on a daily basis, a lot of ancient history was most likely played out by people who were at least walking around with a buzz, or a hangover. Which might explain a few things...

HubZilla
03-23-2015, 05:07 PM
Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter (which I did enjoy and do not consider a bad movie)

Vampires existed: Okay, I accepted that in the context of the movie
Abe Lincoln was a badass axeman: Accepted
Abe Lincoln could do stunning acrobatic wire-fu: Accepted
Abe Lincoln un-retired and did his ninja axe fighting as president, in beard and stovepipe hat: Accepted

So, fantastic unrealistic setting accepted. BUT:

SPOILER:
Vampires were helping the Confederacy. The US was losing because they could only by killed by silver. So the government melted down all the silver in DC the night before Gettysburg. Chalices, trays, candelabras, all melted an forged into bullets. It was already nighttime when they started doing this.

Then transported from DC to Gettysburg (80 miles away). By railroad... but with a twist: by foot on the "Underground Railroad". Then distributed to the soldiers to turn back the vampires’ Picketts Charge in the morning!! OH COME ON!!

Trinopus
03-23-2015, 05:09 PM
burpo the wonder mutt: delightful point about women grunting heartily when in combat.

On the doofus old show Cleopatra 2525, the women made grunting noises...when firing handguns!

scoots
03-23-2015, 05:19 PM
Riddick used an Earth idiom because Earth explictly exists in the Riddick movies:

Ok, then why does Riddick have an American accent?

marshmallow
03-23-2015, 05:22 PM
Because the phrase has an origin you can pinpoint here in our very specific and genuine history of Earth, not on the fantastical World of Erania.

So basically fantasy authors can't use any words of phrases invented since the printing press or you'll be annoyed.

Sattua
03-23-2015, 05:37 PM
I can't get over the way Tywin Lannister's very special Valerian steel blacksmith melted and cast swords at the beginning of season four.

Really?

I mean, really?

burpo the wonder mutt
03-23-2015, 05:41 PM
War films:

A bomb goes off and a half dozen men jump off their trampolines, like Cirque du Soleil, instead of vaporizing in mid-air or flying apart in a nauseating spray of gore (they have been getting better at this in movies lately, though).

ZPG Zealot
03-23-2015, 05:41 PM
Ok, then why does Riddick have an American accent?

Because after being found as a baby in a trash dumpster by a liquor store with an umbilical cord around his neck, he was raised in a crappy orphanage where the only caregivers were very old models androids whose speech had been programmed decades or centuries before to approximate old Earth American English.

burpo the wonder mutt
03-23-2015, 05:51 PM
Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter (which I did enjoy and do not consider a bad movie)<snip>

Where does Lincoln find time to run the country when he's tackling vampires and walkers (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2246549/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1)?

Jophiel
03-23-2015, 06:01 PM
So basically fantasy authors can't use any words of phrases invented since the printing press or you'll be annoyed.
Well, the point of the thread IS stuff that irrationally pushes you over when already suspending your disbelief. If it made logical sense that that's the thing to put you off, there wouldn't be any reason to talk about it.

GuanoLad
03-23-2015, 06:16 PM
So basically fantasy authors can't use any words of phrases invented since the printing press or you'll be annoyed.Words I am fine with, otherwise it would be impossible to read. Phrases stick out.

I don't know why I have to justify this, it's just what happens while I read.

alphaboi867
03-23-2015, 07:02 PM
I have a minor nitpick about Shaun of the Dead; they specifically follow Romero's zombie rules about removing the head or destroying the brain (& pretty much everything else), yet the first zombie Shaun & Ed manages to stand upright and come after them despite being impaled and having a huge hole obviously severing her spinal column. :dubious:

...Oh, and I also get irritated by the "sports almanac" that turns up in BTTF2. It supposedly lists the outcome of every sporting event for decades, but it's as thin as a comic book.

Don't forgot the almanac apparently stays accurate for decades despite all the ripple effects from Biff's bets.

Balance
03-23-2015, 07:46 PM
Don't forgot the almanac apparently stays accurate for decades despite all the ripple effects from Biff's bets.
Why wouldn't it? It's well established in the movies that changes to the timeline propagate forward and eventually change objects brought back from the future. Any changes Biff causes will show up in the results in the Almanac. It should catch up to even really big changes within a week or two, given the expected propagation rate of the changewaves.

Trinopus
03-23-2015, 07:49 PM
I can't get over the way Tywin Lannister's very special Valerian steel blacksmith melted and cast swords at the beginning of season four.

Really?

I mean, really?

Didn't Saruman cast swords in the Lord of the Rings movies? Ultimately, why not? If you're making really crappy swords....but tens of thousands of them...to arm your hordes of mindless minions...wouldn't it be a viable strategy?

Blank Slate
03-23-2015, 08:17 PM
I just finished Stephen King's Dark Tower series. Halfway through the final book:

Susannah leaped to her feet

It took me right out of the story because I couldn't stop laughing.

DrDeth
03-23-2015, 09:01 PM
I just finished Stephen King's Dark Tower series. Halfway through the final book:



It took me right out of the story because I couldn't stop laughing.

:confused::confused::dubious:

buddha_david
03-23-2015, 09:36 PM
I can't get over the way Tywin Lannister's very special Valerian steel blacksmith melted and cast swords at the beginning of season four.
For what it's worth, the writers in the DVD commentary did admit that scene was totally inaccurate; but in their words, "It looked really cool."

marshmallow
03-23-2015, 10:28 PM
Well, the point of the thread IS stuff that irrationally pushes you over when already suspending your disbelief. If it made logical sense that that's the thing to put you off, there wouldn't be any reason to talk about it.

It's cool dude, just wanted to see how far you took it. Personally, I have something like a sliding scale of contemporary dialogue acceptance. I wouldn't expect a fantasy knight to talk like a '60s surfer. But "don't count your chickens before they hatch" was apparently invented in the 1660s. Gotta let it slide, man.

How about the word "OK"? I've seen some people rant about that since it's "too modern." Even though it was invented in the 19th century.

Biblical phrases, no problem. These worlds are already pastiches of Earth cultures and countries. "Oh, they're like Romans, but with dragons." Some old well known book with these phrases isn't exactly a stretch.

Patch
03-24-2015, 12:10 AM
:confused::confused::dubious:

She's a double amputee.

Trinopus
03-24-2015, 12:49 AM
. . . How about the word "OK"? I've seen some people rant about that since it's "too modern." Even though it was invented in the 19th century. . . .

In a "Hyborian Age" sort of fantasy, it would bring me up short.

Fritz Leiber used to play games of this sort in his Fafhrd and Gray Mouser stories. At one point, he said (quote only approximate from memory) "Don't kill the chicken that lays brown eggs with rubies in the yolk or white eggs with diamonds in the white." An obvious riff on a familiar English aphorism, but made alien by the wording.

He also spoke of "Gahveh" in a way that made it clear he was describing "Coffee."

I'm damned if I can tell you why these didn't bother me, but if he'd used the familiar English saying, or said "Coffee," it would have jarred terribly.

foolsguinea
03-24-2015, 01:03 AM
The word he actually used in his native Westron would likely have been nîn-phûru; the literal translation is "water-delving". Faramir was probably using it to mean "river tunnel"--an escape or sally tunnel that passed under the river. The term would have been somewhat dated, but given that the tunnel was an old construction, an archaic place-name would not be out of place.

The translators of the Red Book have a tradition of attention to detail, but perhaps we can forgive such a small slip as taking an archaic word for "water tunnel" to mean "sewer".

:D...OK, sure, we can go with that.

Peter Morris
03-24-2015, 01:34 AM
Can't we assume there was a classic well-known and quoted-to-the-point-of-cliché book in the fantasy world with a similar-meaning phrase, and the translator did a good job? I mean, if someone was translating from Spanish, and the original had a similar phrase from Don Quixote, wouldn't using a similar-meaning Shakespeare quote be the best translation? So assume there's an equivalent book in the fantasy world.

A specific example of this:

The play (and movie) Cyrano De Bergerac contains an allusion to French literature that would be lost on an English speaking audience. In the translation by Burgess it is rendered as "Oh that this too, too, solid nose would melt."


The film Robin Hood Prince of Thieves isn't filmed with authentic 12th century Middle English. Nevertheless, the Sheriff calling Robin and his men a band of Thugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee)really made me go WTF?

Kobal2
03-24-2015, 01:57 AM
Because the phrase has an origin you can pinpoint here in our very specific and genuine history of Earth, not on the fantastical World of Erania.

So ? A translator, even a "translator" is writing for you the reader, and for your understanding. He adapts speech with that fact foremost in mind- his job is not to provide a word-for-word account of what is said/written. That's Google Translate's niche :p. Finding equivalent or semi-equivalent idioms is part of that (and can often be a right pain in the arse).

For example, you've got the French expression "Ne vends pas la peau de l'ours avant de l'avoir tué" which I would translate as "don't sell your chicks before they're hatched" without a second thought even though a literal translation would be "don't sell the bear's pelt before you've killed it". The sentiment is exactly the same, but we each have our idioms and images, each with their own history/origins.

Ultimately idioms are condensed "meaning packages", where a minimum of words are used to convey a maximum of sense. Translation the words make no sense : it's the meaning you're really after.

GuanoLad
03-24-2015, 02:56 AM
So ? A translator, even a "translator" is writing for you the reader, and for your understanding.That doesn't stop it from being jarring and taking me out of the moment.

Sure it can be rationalised, but the point of the OP is that, despite the suspension of disbelief we're all participating in, some things sometimes just make you go "Huh?" and that's the one that does it for me.

Superdude
03-24-2015, 07:02 AM
I don't know if this is exactly what the OP is looking for, but I hate when fantasy worlds are almost-but-not-quite geographically Earth, so that I feel like I'm spending most of my brainpower separating fact from fiction rather than just enjoying the fiction.

That's what bothered me about the Star Wars original trilogy...every planet was ONE type of climate. Ice, desert, forest, swamp. No temperate zones along with polar regions. While I don't want them to be just like Earth, it seems odd that there's no variation to be found.

I always thought the line was "nerve-hurter", which actually makes more sense. (What the hell is a "nerf"??)

A nerf (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nerf) is yak-like animal that was native to Alderaan, but found all over the galaxy.

Ethilrist
03-24-2015, 07:08 AM
Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter

SPOILER:
Vampires were helping the Confederacy. The US was losing because they could only by killed by silver. So the government melted down all the silver in DC the night before Gettysburg. Chalices, trays, candelabras, all melted an forged into bullets. It was already nighttime when they started doing this.
Count Dracula: No, Abraham, that is a werewolf
Abraham Lincoln: A werewolf? Really? Are you sure?
[Guards start to take him away]
AL: [to the guards] No harm done! The man's all right! This was for a werewolf! No problem! Calm down! Take it easy! I'm the President! I know where I'm going!

See, that'd do it for me, right there.

Sitnam
03-24-2015, 09:57 AM
I know medieval history and out of date armor styles bothers me, either in the period the movie is set in on just comparing two people standing next to each other with 500 years of fashion between them.

I don't care if it's a fantasy movie, it's like seeing a guy in a Zoot suit stand next to a dude in a toga.

HubZilla
03-24-2015, 01:25 PM
How about the recent Battleship movie?

(SPOILERS)

Interstellar Aliens attack: Accepted
Shield that neutralizes military outside and inside Oahu: Accepted
Board-game references, like peg-bombs and I-9 coordinate battle scene: Accepted
USS Missouri brought out of mothballs, controlled by aging vets: Accepted

But I could not buy that the screw-up who robbed a store, found the gumption to "turn his life around" and suddenly became a US Navy officer.

Typo Negative
03-24-2015, 02:42 PM
But I could not buy that the screw-up who robbed a store, found the gumption to "turn his life around" and suddenly became a US Navy officer.And has a real hard time following orders. Even the mundane and sensible.

Don Draper
03-24-2015, 02:47 PM
X-Men: First Class - the young Prof. X and Magneto are training their debut class of mutant superheroes at Xavier's Westchester school. Magneto displays his "tough love" method of educating by magnetically levitating himself and Banshee to the top of a nearby SETI-scope radiotower (or whatever it is (http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/xmen-banshee2.jpg)) about a mile away from the school.

I can accept the premise that there is a sub-species of people have extraordinary superpowers. I can accept that one or two mutants can get away with independently training a whole team of superhuman mutants as field agents with minimal to no involvement from the U.S. government. I can specifically accept that one of these lucky individuals can emit a super-sonic scream that (somehow) enables him to fly. I can even accept that the U.S. in 1962 - when the film takes place - actually HAD enormous SETI radioscope towers.

But building an enormous, view-obscuring eyesore of a SETI radioscope smack in the middle of one of the richest counties in New York state?? No. The taxpaying citizens would ensure that zoning ordinances expressly forbade it from ever being built. That is just too hard to swallow.

Thing Fish
03-24-2015, 03:02 PM
I just finished Stephen King's Dark Tower series. Halfway through the final book:



It took me right out of the story because I couldn't stop laughing.

Really? What page is that on? That's a pretty embarrassing continuity error, given that she is one of the four major characters and that was the sixth book King had written about her!

Trancephalic
03-24-2015, 03:12 PM
The Fly.

OK, so both organisms get equal genetic vote regardless of relative biomass. Cool. I can deal with that.

But what about genetically distinct microbes living within and without Brundle and especially the fly? (Also aren't mitochondrions genetically distinct, too?)

Shouldn't they have become Brundlegerm, the 185-pound single-celled organism?

Actually that might be scarier, especially if he could divide via fission and consume via osmosis.

Trinopus
03-24-2015, 03:34 PM
I know medieval history and out of date armor styles bothers me . . .

In Elizabeth: The Golden Age, Cate Blanchett, as QEI, is encouraging the troops to resist the expected landing of the Spanish army. She's wearing a gorgeous set of fantasy armor.

This kicked me back and forth. My initial reaction was failure of suspension of disbelief: what is this stuff? It belongs in Lord of the Rings!

By my counter-reaction was, she's a really rich Queen: maybe she had someone tart her up a set of completely fake...but damn pretty...armor, to inspire the troops. It could have been historically plausible.

I'm still weaving back and forth!

What was your reaction to that armor? (If you saw the movie. Hope you did, as it's pretty good!)

MrDibble
03-24-2015, 04:06 PM
What was your reaction to that armor? (If you saw the movie. Hope you did, as it's pretty good!)

Have you seen her dad's helm (http://twonerdyhistorygirls.blogspot.com/2011/08/horned-helmet-of-henry-viii-1514.html)? Or his buddy Henri II's armour (https://wanderingmuseumconsultant.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/7076352219_f99fa3ed90.jpg).

Elizabeth's armour (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/28/article-2031177-021DB610000004B0-326_233x423.jpg)is perfectly fine armour (if somewhat thin parade-style and not nearly as decorated as it could have been). There's not really anything fantasy-like about it.

Shit like the 300 movies etc, those feature fantasy armour (http://payvand.com/news/14/mar/300-Rise-of-an-Empire-Queen-Artemisia-HR.jpg).

buddha_david
03-24-2015, 04:53 PM
But building an enormous, view-obscuring eyesore of a SETI radioscope smack in the middle of one of the richest counties in New York state?? No. The taxpaying citizens would ensure that zoning ordinances expressly forbade it from ever being built. That is just too hard to swallow.
That's not nearly as bad as the gigantic soundstage built for The Truman Show, which apparently engulfs all of downtown Los Angeles. (http://www.vlux.de/sci/frontiers/frontiersimg.htm) :smack:

Miller
03-24-2015, 05:27 PM
That's not nearly as bad as the gigantic soundstage built for The Truman Show, which apparently engulfs all of downtown Los Angeles. (http://www.vlux.de/sci/frontiers/frontiersimg.htm) :smack:

But that's not the mundane unrealistic detail: it's the batshit fantastically unrealistic setting.

Morbo
03-24-2015, 06:31 PM
Like shooting fish in a barrel I know, but it really bothered me in Attack of the Clones when Owen said "This is my girlfriend, Beru." Was that necessary? Couldn't they just have been married? Why bother with that crap?

"This is my girlfriend, Beru. Well, more than my girlfriend, I mean, we're living together and she's helping with the moisture farm - I guess you could say we're engaged to be engaged. I'll probably marry her someday, but we want to take things slow...marriage is a big decision, you know? We met one night at Tasche Station, you know, not a lot of humans out here. Anyway, after that night we started seeing each other - dates for Pod racing, drinks in Mos Eisley, picnics at Beggar's Canyon..."

Lemmytheseal2
03-24-2015, 06:49 PM
That's what bothered me about the Star Wars original trilogy...every planet was ONE type of climate. Ice, desert, forest, swamp. No temperate zones along with polar regions. While I don't want them to be just like Earth, it seems odd that there's no variation to be found.
Those are just the areas you see onscreen.


A nerf (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nerf) is yak-like animal that was native to Alderaan, but found all over the galaxy.Quite right!

Like shooting fish in a barrel I know, but it really bothered me in Attack of the Clones when Owen said "This is my girlfriend, Beru." Was that necessary? Couldn't they just have been married? Why bother with that crap?

"This is my girlfriend, Beru. Well, more than my girlfriend, I mean, we're living together and she's helping with the moisture farm - I guess you could say we're engaged to be engaged. I'll probably marry her someday, but we want to take things slow...marriage is a big decision, you know? We met one night at Tasche Station, you know, not a lot of humans out here. Anyway, after that night we started seeing each other - dates for Pod racing, drinks in Mos Eisley, picnics at Beggar's Canyon..."
I liked that, actually. It was a nice touch. For the same reason, I like the deleted bits involving the domestic scenes at Padme's place, like when her nieces run out and play with Artoo.

Miller
03-24-2015, 07:11 PM
Those are just the areas you see onscreen.


Not a lot of lakes on this shot of Tattooine from the movies. (http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070811234425/starwars/images/7/7f/Tatooine.jpg)

And not a lot of green on this shot of Hoth. (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/zs/tesb/lslaunch1.jpg)

And speaking of green, they explicitly refer to place where the Ewoks live as "the forest moon of Endor." So, I'm guessing mostly forests there.

That said, monoclime worlds are kind of a real thing. Mars is pretty much all desert, and most of the planets and moons past Mars are all frozen.

An all-forest moon is stretching things, though. And how the hell does an ice-ball like Hoth support a predator the size of the wampa?

Lemmytheseal2
03-24-2015, 07:25 PM
Not a lot of lakes on this shot of Tattooine from the movies. (http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070811234425/starwars/images/7/7f/Tatooine.jpg)

And not a lot of green on this shot of Hoth. (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/zs/tesb/lslaunch1.jpg)

Those are both very high-altitude shots, and gorgeous ones, at that. Only a small part of either planet is even marginally habitable.


And speaking of green, they explicitly refer to place where the Ewoks live as "the forest moon of Endor." So, I'm guessing mostly forests there. Yes, but if you've ever seen those Ewok movies, they cover more territory than just forests, IIRC.


That said, monoclime worlds are kind of a real thing. Mars is pretty much all desert, and most of the planets and moons past Mars are all frozen.

An all-forest moon is stretching things, though. And how the hell does an ice-ball like Hoth support a predator the size of the wampa? The wampas mostly eat tauntauns, among other things. There's a great book from the 90s called The Illustrated Star Wars Universe that explores all of those worlds (in-universe), using Ralph McQuarrie's artwork throughout. You see things like tauntauns eating lichen in caves and such.

Blake
03-24-2015, 07:41 PM
Those are just the areas you see onscreen. [quote]

Canonically, those planets are all swamp, all desert, all ice etc.

[QUOTE=Miller;18234387][url="http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070811234425/starwars/images/7/7f/Tatooine.jpg"]That said, monoclime worlds are kind of a real thing. Mars is pretty much all desert

Mars has larger climatic variations than Earth.

... and most of the planets and moons past Mars are all frozen.

Frozen isn't a climate, it's a temperature. Mars is "frozen" by Earth standards, but it still has very large variations in climate.

But the real problem is that most of these planets are not frozen. They are just uniformly hot and dry, or cool and wet or similar. You can't actually sustain an entire planet like that and still have liquid water, which they all do.

And how the hell does an ice-ball like Hoth support a predator the size of the wampa?

The largest terrestrial and oceanic predators on Earth are inhabitants of the Arctic. Just because the land is permafrost doesn't mean that the planet doesn't have highly productive oceans that thaw out occasionally and are teeming with space seals and space penguins.

Blank Slate
03-24-2015, 07:52 PM
Really? What page is that on? That's a pretty embarrassing continuity error, given that she is one of the four major characters and that was the sixth book King had written about her!

I read it on my a Kindle, so page 46%, location 6106. :p

It took place right after Eddie got shot in the head. The full line reads At the sight of this terrible head-wound Susannah leaped to her feet and began to scream again.

alphaboi867
03-24-2015, 07:53 PM
Speaking of vampires; does anyone else get annoyed when a movie or TV show follows the does not have a reflection (or no photo) rule and inexplicably extends it to the vampire's clothing was well. The only aversion I can think of was Daybreakers where Ethan Hawke's animated suit was seen a mirror.

D_Odds
03-24-2015, 08:08 PM
In modern movies, my biggest peeve has always been the never-ending firearm clip. Even as a little boy, playing with my toy cowboy six-shooters, I understood about limited ammo. Yet no one ever really worried about ammo; even when it became a plot point, it was only after they had fired dozens, if not hundreds of bullets. Very heavy bullets.

Lemmytheseal2
03-24-2015, 08:22 PM
In modern movies, my biggest peeve has always been the never-ending firearm clip. Even as a little boy, playing with my toy cowboy six-shooters, I understood about limited ammo. Yet no one ever really worried about ammo; even when it became a plot point, it was only after they had fired dozens, if not hundreds of bullets. Very heavy bullets.

Do you have an example that ruins a batshit fantastically unrealistic setting? I'm sure there are lots, I just can't think of any right now, and I'm wondering what you have in mind. That happens in a lot of movies that are unfortunately trying for realism.

Trinopus
03-24-2015, 09:01 PM
Have you seen her dad's helm (http://twonerdyhistorygirls.blogspot.com/2011/08/horned-helmet-of-henry-viii-1514.html)? Or his buddy Henri II's armour (https://wanderingmuseumconsultant.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/7076352219_f99fa3ed90.jpg).

Elizabeth's armour (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/28/article-2031177-021DB610000004B0-326_233x423.jpg)is perfectly fine armour (if somewhat thin parade-style and not nearly as decorated as it could have been). There's not really anything fantasy-like about it.

Shit like the 300 movies etc, those feature fantasy armour (http://payvand.com/news/14/mar/300-Rise-of-an-Empire-Queen-Artemisia-HR.jpg).

Cool! Thank you! I had taken Elizabeth's armor, in the movie, to be not only fantasy, but absurd and exaggerated fantasy. I guess I'm wrong. Oopsie!

That helmet, meanwhile, with the dorky pince-nez glasses and the absurd spiral horns -- holy crap, that's queer! Steampunk meets H.R. Giger!

Reality is more absurd than fiction! Figures...

Trinopus
03-24-2015, 09:08 PM
Speaking of vampires; does anyone else get annoyed when a movie or TV show follows the does not have a reflection (or no photo) rule and inexplicably extends it to the vampire's clothing was well. The only aversion I can think of was Daybreakers where Ethan Hawke's animated suit was seen a mirror.

I always took it as magic, or, worse, theology, in which case who knows what the rules are.

Otherwise, we'd see a vampire's shape in a mirror by the dust, film of sweat, dead skin cells, fragments of hair, etc. all clinging to their skin.

(Sort of like the problem of the Invisible Man: why are his bones, hair, blood plasma, or digestive by-products invisible?)

Peter Morris
03-24-2015, 09:38 PM
Actually, in the original novel food passing through IM's system was visible. And in the chapter where he discusses the invisibility process with Kemp he explains about blood, bones and hair. The fact that he was an albino helped.

BigT
03-24-2015, 11:22 PM
She's a double amputee.

Much better than what I thought--because he used "leaped," yet I've only heard that expression used with "leapt."

Weird that he's using it as a purely colloquial expression then.

Gerald II
03-25-2015, 01:12 AM
These are mostly from x Reasons to Hate the Star Wars prequels but the actual examples bothered when I first saw them in the films as well:

In The Phantom Menace
When Obi-Wan first encounters Darth Maul. He asks Qui Gon Jinn "What was it?" as if it were something totally strange when clearly "it" was a man. In a universe where they refer to a giant slug as a "he" why would a guy dressed in traditional male clothing, with male features, be referred to as "it"?

Then there's a two headed announcer that talks like a modern day American sports commentator: "I don't care what galaxy you're from, that had ta hurt!" Star Wars takes place a long time ago...not in the future. So why talk like American sports commentators?

All it takes is one senator to say "I vote no confidence" and they pick a new chancellor. I was like, "wait, what? That's all they have to do to kick out the chancellor?"

Why do so many of the starships look brand new in Ep I, but in the OT they all have that used technology look? I'm guessing that since it took place before the OT the rational is that things were new. But that doesn't make any sense unless they just started making starships when Ep I happened, and they stopped making new starships after Ep III ended.

Superdude
03-25-2015, 06:16 AM
Then there's a two headed announcer that talks like a modern day American sports commentator: "I don't care what galaxy you're from, that had ta hurt!" Star Wars takes place a long time ago...not in the future. So why talk like American sports commentators?

At least one of those heads was voiced by Whose Line Is It Anyway? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvXXytks29E) favorite Greg Proops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Proops).

GuanoLad
03-25-2015, 06:34 AM
Greg Proops talks all about that scene in great detail in a podcast (http://iwastheretoo.wolfpop.com/audio/20361/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-with-greg-proops), if you're interested.

CalMeacham
03-25-2015, 06:56 AM
I always took it as magic, or, worse, theology, in which case who knows what the rules are.

Otherwise, we'd see a vampire's shape in a mirror by the dust, film of sweat, dead skin cells, fragments of hair, etc. all clinging to their skin.

(Sort of like the problem of the Invisible Man: why are his bones, hair, blood plasma, or digestive by-products invisible?)

If you read H.G. Wells' The Invisible Man, he does address those issues. He has all of Griffin's bodily tissues have a refractive index of 1, and even talks about what happens to the food he eats.

It's absurd, of course -- Even if you could make biological tissue completely transparent and lower in index, you still couldn't get it as low as the index of air*. And, even if you did, it's absurdly difficult to make things completely vanish by index-matching. I know -- I've worked at it (not with people, of course). It's too easy for dirt on the surfaces or reflections at high angles of incidence to screw up the illusion.

And, of course, there's the whole issue of being able to see. A truly invisible man would necessarily be blind.

** there certainly do exist water creatures that are invisible, or mostly so. But they don't have to match the refractive index of air -- only of water, a much easier proposition. It'd be much easier to have an Invisible Aquatic Man, but that has fewer dramatic possibilities in rural England.

Chopsticks
03-25-2015, 07:06 AM
The Matrix. Keanu Reeves, brain in a vat, artificial intelligences? Sure. The robots use humans as fuel because there is no sunlight, and humans are fed recycled humans? :dubious: :smack: Let's see, what grade was it where we learned about the food chain, some time in elementary school?

My faith in humanity was restored later when I heard that the original story was 'humans used as idea-generators', and the change was due to movie exec meddling.

MrDibble
03-25-2015, 07:14 AM
All it takes is one senator to say "I vote no confidence" and they pick a new chancellor. I was like, "wait, what? That's all they have to do to kick out the chancellor?"
No, that one senator called for (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Finis_Valorum#Removal_from_office) a vote, which just lead to the actual vote (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vote_of_No_Confidence) of no confidence the next day. Which is a real thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_of_no_confidence) in parliamentary systems.

MrDibble
03-25-2015, 07:17 AM
It'd be much easier to have an Invisible Aquatic Man, but that has fewer dramatic possibilities in rural England.
But think of what it'd add to the JLA ! Of course, Aqua Man'd have to be naked....

Superdude
03-25-2015, 07:42 AM
But think of what it'd add to the JLA ! Of course, Aqua Man'd have to be naked....

...Do Atlanteans have to worry about shrikage?

CalMeacham
03-25-2015, 07:55 AM
...Do Atlanteans have to worry about shrikage?

Who cares? Nobody would be able to see anyway.

Bricker
03-25-2015, 08:11 AM
The Matrix. Keanu Reeves, brain in a vat, artificial intelligences? Sure. The robots use humans as fuel because there is no sunlight, and humans are fed recycled humans? :dubious: :smack: Let's see, what grade was it where we learned about the food chain, some time in elementary school?


Well, sure that's what they taught you in elementary school.

Where did you go to elementary school?

In the Matrix.

The machines tell elegant lies. (http://lesswrong.com/lw/s4/fundamental_doubts/)

Bricker
03-25-2015, 08:13 AM
But building an enormous, view-obscuring eyesore of a SETI radioscope smack in the middle of one of the richest counties in New York state?? No. The taxpaying citizens would ensure that zoning ordinances expressly forbade it from ever being built. That is just too hard to swallow.

What's Professor X's power again?

Sir T-Cups
03-25-2015, 08:33 AM
I thought of this thread yesterday when I was watching a YouTube video of a bunch of guys playing the new Dragonball Xenoverse game.

While a fight is going on Lord Frieza says something to the effect of "What chance to four ants have against a dinosaur".

How does Frieza know what a dinosaur is? At this point in the series they are on Namek, so not only has Frieza never been to Earth before, but I'm pretty sure he barely even knows what Earth is, only vaguely knowing they have Dragonballs from Vegeta.

I know that Dino's exist in the universe (I think Gohan is chased by one sometime?) but it took me out of the scene that an alien with no prior knowledge or experience of Earth knows what a dinosaur is.

....or ants for that matter

Catamount
03-25-2015, 08:50 AM
The Fly.

OK, so both organisms get equal genetic vote regardless of relative biomass. Cool. I can deal with that.

But what about genetically distinct microbes living within and without Brundle and especially the fly? (Also aren't mitochondrions genetically distinct, too?)

Shouldn't they have become Brundlegerm, the 185-pound single-celled organism?

Actually that might be scarier, especially if he could divide via fission and consume via osmosis.

I don't usually approve of reboots, but that would be one hell of a reboot.

CalMeacham
03-25-2015, 09:06 AM
I don't usually approve of reboots, but that would be one hell of a reboot.

Langelaan's original story doesn't really stand up to a moment's scrutiny. In the story, the scientist ends up combined not only with the fly, but also with parts of the kitten that he tried to teleport earlier. I guess the pieces were just floating around in the hyperverse, or computer memory, or something. And they all happened to combine in a fashion that resulted in a working, living creature. Two of them, in fact.

The first movie wisely ignored the splicing-with-a-kitten part (although they kept the episode of the failed teleportation of the cat). The Cronenberg remake viewed the re-combination on the level of DNA, which is more interesting and classier and made for a deeper script, but it's still absurd. And, as pointed out, you don't even need the fly. Brundle could end up sharing DNA with the microparasites in his eyelashes, or his intestinal flora, or whatever.

You just have to look at the story as a piece of horror fiction, and not worry too much about the science. It's amazing that Langelaan's original story not only got filmed -- twice -- but also spawned a total of three sequels (two for the original film, one for the remake) and a LOT of parodies and cultural references. Gary Larson had a field day with it.

I'm sure a lot of people thought that Langelaan's story, which appeared in Playboy in the 1950s, started the whole teleporter-gone-wrong meme. But it didn't, by some eighty years. The very first two stories about teleportation both involved the terrible, horrible consequences of Teleportation Gone Wrong, tapping into a vein of revulsion I call Teleportation Angst. People don't see the cultura effects and advantages of teleportation -- their first instinct is how it can screw up. It's as if the first stories about a rocket to the moon ended with the rocket ship blowing up on the launch pad.

My essay on it appeared in Teemings:

http://www.teemings.net/series_1/issue14/calmeacham.html

Ethilrist
03-25-2015, 09:12 AM
What's Professor X's power again?

So he could have used his mind control to convince his neighbors to let them build the huge telescope on the horizon... why, exactly?

...Do Atlanteans have to worry about shrikage?
No, but there's still coral... :eek:

Don't Panic
03-25-2015, 09:58 AM
The Matrix. Keanu Reeves, brain in a vat, artificial intelligences? Sure. The robots use humans as fuel because there is no sunlight, and humans are fed recycled humans? :dubious: :smack:
Oh, cripes. The human batteries. Yes, the Matrix should be the freaking trope namer for this entire subject.

This quote from Homer sums up my opinion on the matter. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vxHkAQRQUQ)

oft wears hats
03-25-2015, 11:44 AM
Indiana Jones in that damn fridge in Crystal Skull. Given what we've seen in the series before, I'd have been less taken out of the story if there had been a freak magical portal that opened up that took Indy out of the blast radius. A gift from Shiva, perhaps, for that business in Temple of Doom? I'd believe that far more readily than the laws of physics just deciding to pop out for a quick lunch.

If you read H.G. Wells' The Invisible Man, he does address those issues. He has all of Griffin's bodily tissues have a refractive index of 1, and even talks about what happens to the food he eats.

It's absurd, of course -- Even if you could make biological tissue completely transparent and lower in index, you still couldn't get it as low as the index of air*. And, even if you did, it's absurdly difficult to make things completely vanish by index-matching. I know -- I've worked at it (not with people, of course). It's too easy for dirt on the surfaces or reflections at high angles of incidence to screw up the illusion.

And, of course, there's the whole issue of being able to see. A truly invisible man would necessarily be blind.

** there certainly do exist water creatures that are invisible, or mostly so. But they don't have to match the refractive index of air -- only of water, a much easier proposition. It'd be much easier to have an Invisible Aquatic Man, but that has fewer dramatic possibilities in rural England.

IIRC, the Sci-Fi show Invisible Man tried to address this. The main character became invisible by secreting a substance called "quicksilver" via a surgically implanted gland. The quicksilver coated the surface of his body and clothes (and occasionally other objects as required by the plot), bending visible light around it or something. The eyesight issue was addressed in that while it bent visible light, it passed non-visible frequencies and rendered them visible on the far side of the quicksilver. So the hero could see in a washed out grayscale, as well as being able to see certain things outside of the visible spectrum. Granted, I doubt any of this would hold up to even a layman's examination (how much non-visible light is present at night, especially indoors?), but it was good enough to enable suspension of disbelief.

Don Draper
03-25-2015, 11:49 AM
So he could have used his mind control to convince his neighbors to let them build the huge telescope on the horizon... why, exactly?

Yes, in fact given that HIS OWN ESTATE would likely see its property value plummet due to the proximity...no wayyyyyyy would it get built there. He would telepathically command it.

Gerald II
03-25-2015, 01:01 PM
No, that one senator called for (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Finis_Valorum#Removal_from_office) a vote, which just lead to the actual vote (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vote_of_No_Confidence) of no confidence the next day. Which is a real thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_of_no_confidence) in parliamentary systems.

Wow, I take it back then. Thanks for enlightening me.

kaylasdad99
03-25-2015, 01:16 PM
I read it on my a Kindle, so page 46%, location 6106. :p

It took place right after Eddie got shot in the head. The full line reads At the sight of this terrible head-wound Susannah leaped to her feet and began to scream again.

Must have been a pretty traumatic experience, to make her legs grow back just long enough for her to stand up and scream.

DZedNConfused
03-25-2015, 02:39 PM
In Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings, when Minas Tirith is shown as a giant walled city towering high above a flat, featureless, thoroughly uninhabited plain, my first thought always is: "Where do these people grow their crops?"

And the one whre the Evil Overlord (TM) is killing all the people in the "land".. so who is he gonna rule and how will he suport himself and his minions without workers to produce food or at least pay taxes....

typoink
03-25-2015, 03:37 PM
The human batteries thing in The Matrix never really bothered me. I mean, it's totally unrealistic, but I always thought it was kind of fanwankable in a sense of "batteries is an oversimplification, the problem isn't just lack of electrical energy and human bodies provide some sort of necessary catalyst to an unexplained technolgy but they're not the only fuel source."

I'll be the first to admit that I'm probably trying harder than the writers.

Alessan
03-25-2015, 03:38 PM
Must have been a pretty traumatic experience, to make her legs grow back just long enough for her to stand up and scream.

To be fair, she actually does grow demon legs at one point.

The series gets kind of weird.

Left Hand of Dorkness
03-25-2015, 03:46 PM
The Matrix. Keanu Reeves, brain in a vat, artificial intelligences? Sure. The robots use humans as fuel because there is no sunlight, and humans are fed recycled humans? :dubious: :smack: Let's see, what grade was it where we learned about the food chain, some time in elementary school?

My faith in humanity was restored later when I heard that the original story was 'humans used as idea-generators', and the change was due to movie exec meddling.I like Bricker's fanwank of it, but mine is slightly different: the computers are crazy assholes. Their use of humans as batteries makes no sense from a physics perspective, but if they need to justify to themselves keeping humans locked in this shitty world, and if they're crazy assholes, the stupid battery justification might work.

Alessan
03-25-2015, 04:18 PM
And the one whre the Evil Overlord (TM) is killing all the people in the "land".. so who is he gonna rule and how will he suport himself and his minions without workers to produce food or at least pay taxes....

That's assuming he wants to rule. Plenty of evil overlords just want to destroy the world, or as much of it as possible.

Quartz
03-25-2015, 04:36 PM
I've said it before -- Steven Spielberg utterly shattered by Suspension of Disbelief at the beginning of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom when he has Indy, Willi, and Short Round jump out of the falling plane in an inflatable raft, which falls none too softly on the snow, careens down the snowpack of the edge of a cliff into a river, lands in the river and goes through roaring rapids. And nobody gets hurt. There should be multiple broken bones at a minimum, and a triple death more likely, but they have not a scratch.

That's setting the tone of the movie.

burpo the wonder mutt
03-25-2015, 05:33 PM
And the one whre the Evil Overlord (TM) is killing all the people in the "land".. so who is he gonna rule and how will he suport himself and his minions without workers to produce food or at least pay taxes....

Why don't the minions ever realize that when all the peasant folk, et al, are gone that THEY become the peasant folk?

DrDeth
03-25-2015, 05:55 PM
And the one whre the Evil Overlord (TM) is killing all the people in the "land".. so who is he gonna rule and how will he suport himself and his minions without workers to produce food or at least pay taxes....

I suggest investing heavily in DrDeth's Undead Minions™, which require no food, etc.

Blank Slate
03-25-2015, 05:58 PM
To be fair, she actually does grow demon legs at one point.

The series gets kind of weird.

Yes, at one point her own legs in tadash, and another time she has Mia's white legs.

There is a whole lot of cringe associated with the Susannah character and her multiple personalities. If the Dark Tower ever gets made into a film or series, it will be a challenge to make Detta Walker's dialect not seem ridiculous. King also glosses over her ambulatory issues when she doesn't have a wheelchair. It would be pretty funny if scrabbles like a crab all over the place.

alphaboi867
03-25-2015, 08:05 PM
I like Bricker's fanwank of it, but mine is slightly different: the computers are crazy assholes. Their use of humans as batteries makes no sense from a physics perspective, but if they need to justify to themselves keeping humans locked in this shitty world, and if they're crazy assholes, the stupid battery justification might work.

My theory is that the Matrix is just the Machines taking the Zeroth Law and concluding that was the best way of protecting humanity from itself. Remember the Matrix was originally Paradise as opposed to a simulation of the real world, but it's inhabitants simply couldn't tolerate utopia.

Saint Cad
03-25-2015, 08:36 PM
Soren's plan to get back to the Nexus in Star Trek Generations. Why not just get a ship and fly into it? I hate when a character acts out of character like that Why in the world did he think his plan to get the Nexus to run into him was better than a plan he already knew worked?

burpo the wonder mutt
03-25-2015, 08:44 PM
Soren's plan to get back to the Nexus in Star Trek Generations. Why not just get a ship and fly into it? I hate when a character acts out of character like that Why in the world did he think his plan to get the Nexus to run into him was better than a plan he already knew worked?

It's been a long time since I've seen it, but didn't the Nexus trash the first two ships at the beginning of the movie before they could get in? And part of the newest Enterprise? Soren was probably thinking a planet was more substantial.

Slow Moving Vehicle
03-25-2015, 11:31 PM
Osgiliath is a perfect example of what the OP is asking about.

In Jackson's movies, Frodo and Sam use the sewers of Osgiliath to cross undetected under the river.

Except ... why is there a sewer UNDER THE RIVER? Where is it flowing to? You build sewers to drain INTO rivers, not underneath them.

My wife has heard me rant about this many times.

That's what bothers you about the Osgiliath scene? Not Frodo deciding to go face to fucking face with a Nazgul, thus revealing the location of the One Ring? Forgetting that the entire fucking point of the Fellowship of the Ring was for him to sneak in to Mordor undetected?

But it's okay, because it apparently slipped the Nazgul's mind to report back to Sauron, "Dude. I just spotted one of those Hobbit guys you're always obsessing about, doing some weird shit in Osgiliath. Looked like he was headed east -y'know, towards Minas Morgul. Thought you'd want to know."

I guess that's not a mundane detail, but it was the only difference between the books and the movie that really really pissed me off.

MrDibble
03-26-2015, 05:19 AM
And the one whre the Evil Overlord (TM) is killing all the people in the "land".. so who is he gonna rule and how will he suport himself and his minions without workers to produce food or at least pay taxes....
You mean like Pol Pot, Mao or Stalin?

Ethilrist
03-26-2015, 07:34 AM
I guess that's not a mundane detail, but it was the only difference between the books and the movie that really really pissed me off.
Sam: We're not even supposed to be here...

oft wears hats
03-26-2015, 08:23 AM
That's what bothers you about the Osgiliath scene? Not Frodo deciding to go face to fucking face with a Nazgul, thus revealing the location of the One Ring? Forgetting that the entire fucking point of the Fellowship of the Ring was for him to sneak in to Mordor undetected?

But it's okay, because it apparently slipped the Nazgul's mind to report back to Sauron, "Dude. I just spotted one of those Hobbit guys you're always obsessing about, doing some weird shit in Osgiliath. Looked like he was headed east -y'know, towards Minas Morgul. Thought you'd want to know."

I guess that's not a mundane detail, but it was the only difference between the books and the movie that really really pissed me off.

Well, Frodo wasn't quite in his right mind at the moment. And for all we know, the Nazgul did report back to Sauron, and Sauron assumed that he was taking the ring to Minas Tirith. I can't remember if it's explicitly mentioned in the movie, but I know the book flat out says that Sauron would never have imagined that anyone would try to destroy the ring instead of using it. He just didn't get it until he saw Frodo put the ring on right at the Cracks of Doom.

Still, I really didn't care for the Osgiliath bit in the movie at all. The whole thing seemed overly dramatic and a bastardization of Faramir's character. But I didn't consider any resulting Nazgul intelligence as a plot hole.

Lemmytheseal2
03-26-2015, 09:12 AM
You mean like Pol Pot, Mao or Stalin?

That wouldn't describe the latter two, if you look at the numbers. It's not even close. That's not really a point in their favor as such, but let's keep it in perspective.

MrDibble
03-26-2015, 09:54 AM
That wouldn't describe the latter two, if you look at the numbers. It's not even close.
It's not about absolute numbers, it's about evil dictators not necessarily thinking things through (although I'd argue that the Holodomor was precisely this, even more than the Killing Fields.)

Thing Fish
03-26-2015, 11:23 PM
Yes, at one point her own legs in tadash, and another time she has Mia's white legs.

There is a whole lot of cringe associated with the Susannah character and her multiple personalities. If the Dark Tower ever gets made into a film or series, it will be a challenge to make Detta Walker's dialect not seem ridiculous. King also glosses over her ambulatory issues when she doesn't have a wheelchair. It would be pretty funny if scrabbles like a crab all over the place.

yeah, I was thinking maybe she had leapt to her feet at one of those times, but apparently not. Well, I guess this was a win for King in my case, because I was too shocked at Eddie's death to notice this huge faux pas. Finding a suitable double amputee black actress would be IMO the second biggest problem in filming this series. The first would be, assuming the studio wants to make and release one film a year rather than film all of them at once before seeing if the first one flops, that you would need a new Jake for each film.

Superdude
03-27-2015, 12:52 AM
Finding a suitable double amputee black actress would be IMO the second biggest problem in filming this series.

Or they could digitally remove her lower legs, a la Gary Sinise in Forrest Gump.

Peter Morris
03-27-2015, 02:10 AM
I've said it before -- Steven Spielberg utterly shattered by Suspension of Disbelief at the beginning of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom when he has Indy, Willi, and Short Round jump out of the falling plane in an inflatable raft, which falls none too softly on the snow, careens down the snowpack of the edge of a cliff into a river, lands in the river and goes through roaring rapids. And nobody gets hurt. There should be multiple broken bones at a minimum, and a triple death more likely, but they have not a scratch.

Tested by Mythbusters, found to be possible. The jump from the plane, at least.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NODvOx0V57E

eburacum45
03-27-2015, 02:58 AM
So basically fantasy authors can't use any words of phrases invented since the printing press or you'll be annoyed.
Well, Tolkien was always very meticulous about only using old idioms, but he was an etymologist, so that should be no surprise.

What always jarred for me about Middle Earth was the tobacco. And the potatoes. Two species from the New World in a world that has no analogue for the Americas.

Blake
03-27-2015, 03:06 AM
Two species from the New World in a world that has no analogue for the Americas.

There are other continents westwards. The Numernoreans sailed to them looking for a route back to Valinor.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 12:57 PM
Well, Tolkien was always very meticulous about only using old idioms, but he was an etymologist, so that should be no surprise.

What always jarred for me about Middle Earth was the tobacco. And the potatoes. Two species from the New World in a world that has no analogue for the Americas.

Pipeweed, not tobacco, but in any case Middle Earth isnt Europe.

CalMeacham
03-27-2015, 01:35 PM
Well, Tolkien was always very meticulous about only using old idioms, but he was an etymologist, so that should be no surprise.

What always jarred for me about Middle Earth was the tobacco. And the potatoes. Two species from the New World in a world that has no analogue for the Americas.

Tolkien also, despite his dislike for and distrust of science, has his Wizards know about gunpowder* and that white light is composed of other colors. His Middle-earth also shows a debt to paleontology and archaeology -- the flying mounts of the Nazgul are described as being very like pterosaurs (although not depicted as such in the Jackson film, they certainly do look like that in the Brothers Hildebrant illustrations, and in Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings -- they were following Tolkien's descriptions very closely). Furthermore,m Lake-Town (Esgaroth), being built on pilings extending over the Long Lake is a cdead ringer for early 20th century reconstructions of the supposed Swiss Lake-Towns from prehistoric times:

http://history-switzerland.geschichte-schweiz.ch/prehistory-lake-dwellings.html

When I was a kid, depictions of these were ubiquitous. There was a diorama of one at the Field Museum in Chicago. I understand that the reconstruction is now thought to be erroneous -- now they think that the houses were built on the edge of the lake, and that the supposed house-supports were actually a protective palisade. Whatever the reality, I have no doubt that Tolkien drew his image of Lake-Town from these reconstructions of prehistoric villages.


*Gandalf must, of course, have known about gunpowder and pyrotechnics if he made fireworks, which he was famous for. Most people don't think about fireworks being completely anachronistic if the world of Tolkien's Middle-Earth is thought to be a close analogy to our own Middle Ages. Saruman has gunpowder, too, which he gives to his Uruk-Hai to use in blowing a breach in Helm's Deep.

I guess we can all be thankful that Tolkien didn't see fit to let them use nuclear or thermonuclear devices. Or antimatter bombs.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 01:49 PM
Tolkien also, despite his dislike for and distrust of science, has his Wizards know about gunpowder*

*Gandalf must, of course, have known about gunpowder and pyrotechnics if he made fireworks, which he was famous for. Most people don't think about fireworks being completely anachronistic if the world of Tolkien's Middle-Earth is thought to be a close analogy to our own Middle Ages. Saruman has gunpowder, too, which he gives to his Uruk-Hai to use in blowing a breach in Helm's Deep.


Gunpowder was used in China for hundreds of years for fireworks before being made into any sort of effective weapon. Quite possible the known formula was one of those that didnt make for a decent weapon and or Sulfur was rare. It also seems like the only two who had made use of it was the two Wizards, so maybe it wasnt commonly known or needed magic to work. And if you read the descriptions of Gandalfs fireworks, it certainly appears he used more than just skill at pyrotechnics to make some of them.

CalMeacham
03-27-2015, 01:56 PM
Gunpowder was used in China for hundreds of years for fireworks before being made into any sort of effective weapon. Quite possible the known formula was one of those that didnt make for a decent weapon and or Sulfur was rare. It also seems like the only two who had made use of it was the two Wizards, so maybe it wasnt commonly known or needed magic to work. And if you read the descriptions of Gandalfs fireworks, it certainly appears he used more than just skill at pyrotechnics to make some of them.

You can fanwank however you want, but gunpowder was not a Thing in medieval Europe or earlier (fantasies like 300 to the contrary notwithstanding), which is my point.

I think Tolkien just liked the idea of Gandalf benignly using gunpowder for fun and contrasting it with Saruman's destructive use of it. Even if he aided it with magic*, Tolkien still called it "fireworks". He could've as easily simply called what Gandalf and Saruman did "magic", and described it thus. For some reason he tied it firmly to gunpowder by his terminology.


*Gandalf certainly seems to have used magic to help shape his "smoke rings", as described in the book, and as depicted in the film.





By the way, here are more of those Swiss Lake Village reconstructions:

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrBTzo2oRVVShkAWwRXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA3lmcC10LTI1MgRncHJpZAM3V1BGMzhCVl F1eTVOSUhzZnNacTVBBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwMwBG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMwBHBxc3RyAwRwcXN0cm wDBHFzdHJsAzI5BHF1ZXJ5A1N3aXNzIHByZWhpc3RvcmljIGxha2UgdnRvd25zBHRfc3RtcAMxNDI3NDgwOTY4?p=Swiss+prehi storic+lake+vtowns&fr2=sb-top-search&fr=yfp-t-252&fp=1

https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrB8punpxVVeyIAlA2JzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIzOXRoM2gyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAM3OGU0YmRiMDk4NTU4 OGNjNGM2NDhmNmQ1NTdiMzVhZARncG9zAzM3BGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3DSwiss%2BPrehistoric%2BLake%2BVtow ns%26fr%3Dyfp-t-252%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D37&w=323&h=304&imgurl=www.kipling.org.uk%2Fpix%2Flake_village2.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kipling.org.uk%2Frg_neolithic1.htm&size=38.0KB&name=lakes+The+first+known+%3Cb%3Eprehistoric%3C%2Fb%3E+%3Cb%3Elake%3C%2Fb%3E+village+was+uncovered+ in+%3Cb%3ELake%3C%2Fb%3E+...&p=swiss+prehistoric+lake+towns&oid=78e4bdb0985588cc4c648f6d557b35ad&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-252&rw=swiss+prehistoric+lake+towns&tt=lakes+The+first+known+%3Cb%3Eprehistoric%3C%2Fb%3E+%3Cb%3Elake%3C%2Fb%3E+village+was+uncovered+in +%3Cb%3ELake%3C%2Fb%3E+...&b=0&ni=288&no=37&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11bdnrdir&sigb=13cb4fbi3&sigi=1186t83v3&sigt=12t7qdad8&sign=12t7qdad8&.crumb=iFnxBO8CwGG&fr=yfp-t-252

https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrB8pm8pxVVVDIAmBeJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIzZWdsOXJjBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAM3N2Y1MGMyNDgyOWY1 Mjk3ZWQ4ZjcyYjg0ZTJmZDU4YQRncG9zAzg1BGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dswiss%2Bprehistoric%2Blake%2Btown s%26fr%3Dyfp-t-252%26ri%3D37%26nost%3D1%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D85&w=526&h=344&imgurl=middle-earth.xenite.org%2Ffiles%2F2011%2F12%2Fjm-tyler-reconstructed-laketown-02.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmiddle-earth.xenite.org%2F2011%2F12%2F06%2Fwhat-was-j-r-r-tolkiens-inspiration-for-lake-town-in-the-hobbit%2F&size=41.1KB&name=...+of+a+reconstructed+%3Cb%3Elake%3C%2Fb%3E+dwelling+from+a+%3Cb%3Eprehistoric%3C%2Fb%3E+%3Cb% 3ESwiss%3C%2Fb%3E+village&p=swiss+prehistoric+lake+towns&oid=77f50c24829f5297ed8f72b84e2fd58a&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-252&tt=...+of+a+reconstructed+%3Cb%3Elake%3C%2Fb%3E+dwelling+from+a+%3Cb%3Eprehistoric%3C%2Fb%3E+%3Cb%3E Swiss%3C%2Fb%3E+village&b=61&ni=21&no=85&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=13avj3mo6&sigb=13ot4r3qi&sigi=12co59lgu&sigt=12qg71de1&sign=12qg71de1&.crumb=iFnxBO8CwGG&fr=yfp-t-252

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 02:01 PM
You can fanwank however you want, but gunpowder was not a Thing in medieval Europe or earlier (fantasies like 300 to the contrary notwithstanding), which is my point.

Roger Bacon and Marcus Graecus had fireworks in around 1267- 1300, so that's certainly medieval.

CalMeacham
03-27-2015, 02:33 PM
Roger Bacon and Marcus Graecus had fireworks in around 1267- 1300, so that's certainly medieval.


You're Special pleading, and you know it.

Gunpowder as a fact of life didn't exist for Europe until the 13th century, and even after early encounters, still didn't affect things -- like making castles lose their curtain walls until after that. Wikipedia calls "Middle Ages" from the 5th nto the 15th centuries. For the bulk of that Europe had not even the knowledge of gunpowder.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 02:49 PM
You're Special pleading, and you know it.

Gunpowder as a fact of life didn't exist for Europe until the 13th century, and even after early encounters, still didn't affect things -- like making castles lose their curtain walls until after that. Wikipedia calls "Middle Ages" from the 5th nto the 15th centuries. For the bulk of that Europe had not even the knowledge of gunpowder.

Sure. But we have two (count em, two!) dudes in Middle Earth who know about gunpowder. I showed you that there were two (count em, two!) dudes in Medieval Europe that also did.

CalMeacham
03-27-2015, 02:59 PM
Sure. But we have two (count em, two!) dudes in Middle Earth who know about gunpowder. I showed you that there were two (count em, two!) dudes in Medieval Europe that also did.

No matter how good Roger Bacon was, he was no Istar.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 03:03 PM
No matter how good Roger Bacon was, he was no Istar.

Are you sure? Has anyone one seen Roger Bacon and Gandalf in the same room at the same time? :p aha!

Alessan
03-27-2015, 03:45 PM
Well, Tolkien was always very meticulous about only using old idioms, but he was an etymologist, so that should be no surprise.

What always jarred for me about Middle Earth was the tobacco. And the potatoes. Two species from the New World in a world that has no analogue for the Americas.

As an aside: one interesting thing about GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire is that Westeros's native flora and fauna is clearly North American, and not the standard European. Which makes sense, actually.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 03:48 PM
As an aside: one interesting thing about GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire is that Westeros's native flora and fauna is clearly North American,

I never noticed that, got a link or info?

Alessan
03-27-2015, 03:55 PM
It's just from reading the books: off the top of my head, I remember corn, pumpkins, wild turkeys, mountain lions, buffalo and sasquatch (although the last two are debatable).

silenus
03-27-2015, 03:59 PM
Buffalo aren't North American.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 04:00 PM
It's just from reading the books: off the top of my head, I remember corn, pumpkins, wild turkeys, mountain lions, buffalo and sasquatch (although the last two are debatable).

You said the "B" word!!!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Good point, but of course "corn" as a general term for grain is European.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 04:05 PM
Buffalo aren't North American.

Sure they are. :pThe European Bison is pretty rare. Unless you think they are talking about the Water Buffalo, which is doubtful. " also commonly known as the American buffalo".

But this website doesnt list either Bison or buffalo.


http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Beastiary

Zsofia
03-27-2015, 04:11 PM
I never could with the idea that in the "real world" of the Matrix everybody forgot how to knit a decent sweater.

I'm always ripped right out of things by shitty historic costuming. I could NOT cope with The Tudors. No.

Alessan
03-27-2015, 04:29 PM
Sure they are. :pThe European Bison is pretty rare. Unless you think they are talking about the Water Buffalo, which is doubtful. " also commonly known as the American buffalo".

But this website doesnt list either Bison or buffalo.


http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Beastiary

It's just a theory of mine - I know aurochs is a primordial European species of cattle, but based on their description in the book, I suspect that what GRRM is actually referring to is the North American bison. He called mountain lions "shadowcats", so why not call bison "aurochs"?

And I know about "corn" meaning grain, but you also had Lord Commander tossing his raven a "grain of corn". To me, that means maize.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 04:31 PM
And I know about "corn" meaning grain, but you also had Lord Commander tossing his raven a "grain of corn". To me, that means maize.

You have a point there, I mean a "grain of wheat" is a pretty darn small snack.

Catamount
03-28-2015, 05:21 AM
Outdated technology jerks me right out of a story. For example, in The Ship Who Sang, you have hideously deformed children who couldn't survive on their own put into metal shells and trained to become intergalactic spaceships. Spaceships whose computers are still programmed with tapes.

DZedNConfused
03-28-2015, 07:58 AM
Outdated technology jerks me right out of a story. For example, in The Ship Who Sang, you have hideously deformed children who couldn't survive on their own put into metal shells and trained to become intergalactic spaceships. Spaceships whose computers are still programmed with tapes.

Yeah, but not all of that can be blamed on the author. That book IS over 20 years old...the original short story is probably closer to 30 or 40 years.

Catamount
03-28-2015, 08:34 AM
Yeah, but not all of that can be blamed on the author. That book IS over 20 years old...the original short story is probably closer to 30 or 40 years.

*puts on pedant hat* Actually the book is almost 50, 55 for the original story.

The Ship Who Sang (1969) is a science fiction novel by Anne McCaffrey, a fix-up of five stories published 1961 to 1969.

I guess it jars me so much because in her later stories, especially the Planet Pirates series, McCaffrey came up with encoding programs on ceramic bricks which are more sci-fi-y to my 21st-century sensibilities. When a sci-fi story is so firmly ensconced in the technology of the time it was written in, it ends up looking slightly silly decades later when technology has advanced past that point.

Annie-Xmas
03-28-2015, 09:56 AM
New York City has millions of high rise apartment buildings. Why is it that when Detective Danny Reagen or Police Officer Jaime Reagen go into an apartment building, it's always built on the same plans as every other apartment building they have ever been in. NYC does not build its apartment buildings all with the same floor plan.

ExTank
03-28-2015, 10:08 AM
The actual un-dead kind, not the Raged-up still-living 28 Days Later variety.


Aren't actually dead zombies a sort of self-correcting problem? I mean, tissue still rots and degenerates, yes? And wouldn't being exposed to the elements (as opposed to being tucked away in a coffin six feet under) only accelerate this?


Aren't there wild animal attracted to the scent of carion?

Jophiel
03-30-2015, 10:38 AM
Sunday's edition (http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2015-03-29) of the online comic Sinfest. Ignore the whole Devil world, Reality Zone, yadda yadda business and the heavy moralizing of the strip in general. I'm more bothered by the fact that a robot needs to visually look at a map display on her arm in order to know where she's going.

CalMeacham
03-30-2015, 10:59 AM
Outdated technology jerks me right out of a story. For example, in The Ship Who Sang, you have hideously deformed children who couldn't survive on their own put into metal shells and trained to become intergalactic spaceships. Spaceships whose computers are still programmed with tapes.

Heck, in Heinlein's Rocket Ship Galileo and in George O. Smith's Venus Equilateral series you have space ships being guided by cam-controlled mechanical computers, much like the Norden Bombsight. Computer Tapes, and the Digital Computers that go with them, would be a step up in technology.

I still love and read the stories. It's the attitude, not the scientific errors or the obsolete technology. I love the old tech in Jules Verne's novels, and I simply ignore the errors.

Blank Slate
03-30-2015, 11:28 AM
I never could with the idea that in the "real world" of the Matrix everybody forgot how to knit a decent sweater.

I'm always ripped right out of things by shitty historic costuming. I could NOT cope with The Tudors. No.

What material were they using to knit those sweaters? And do you think that's air you're breathing?

BrianJ
03-30-2015, 05:31 PM
Related, in the video game Dragon Age Origins, one of the characters speaks in a pronounced, almost silly, French accent as she comes from another country. I let it roll because I accept it as a device saying "Hey, she's not from around here".

In a follow-up game, Dragon Age Inquisition, you have people from that country actually speaking in French. Not just a borrowed word here or there but full phrases. That bothers me more because now it's not some France-like fantasy medieval kingdom, it's "actually" France. Except that it's not.

I don't remember full French phrases in Inquisition. I'll have to listen for that. For me, about thw same game, a character named Mother Dorothea was in the first game, as an English accented priestess. 10 years in game later, in Inquisition she's been promoted to head of the entire church.. and has a French accent.

I don't know if continuity errors really count for the purpose of this thread.

A better one is in Mass Effect, also by Bioware. One race of aliens mostly have a vague eastern European accent. Fine, until you meat one character who talks and acts like a US marine.

Catamount
03-30-2015, 06:12 PM
What material were they using to knit those sweaters?
The crappiest yarn in the world, apparently.

Sunday's edition (http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2015-03-29) of the online comic Sinfest. Ignore the whole Devil world, Reality Zone, yadda yadda business and the heavy moralizing of the strip in general. I'm more bothered by the fact that a robot needs to visually look at a map display on her arm in order to know where she's going.
I've been reading Apartment 3-G for so long, I don't even notice errors like that in comics anymore. (I do wish Tats would hurry up and get to the point, though. Either that or throw in some Pooch & Percy comics while we're waiting.)

CaptMurdock
03-30-2015, 07:00 PM
Heck, in Heinlein's Rocket Ship Galileo and in George O. Smith's Venus Equilateral series you have space ships being guided by cam-controlled mechanical computers, much like the Norden Bombsight. Computer Tapes, and the Digital Computers that go with them, would be a step up in technology.

I still love and read the stories. It's the attitude, not the scientific errors or the obsolete technology. I love the old tech in Jules Verne's novels, and I simply ignore the errors.

Yeah, me too. Mind you, even as a kid in the late 70s, reading Starman Jones, which had FTL ships utilized binary computers (as in, you had to manually input binary numbers via switches) which used spatial coordinates that had to be translated using tables which the astrogater had to read from bound volumes, I had to go "...what, dude? I think we had something more sophisticated than that going to the moon!"

Granted, that book was written a decade or more before then, but really... :smack:

alphaboi867
03-30-2015, 07:26 PM
The actual un-dead kind, not the Raged-up still-living 28 Days Later variety.


Aren't actually dead zombies a sort of self-correcting problem? I mean, tissue still rots and degenerates, yes? And wouldn't being exposed to the elements (as opposed to being tucked away in a coffin six feet under) only accelerate this?


Aren't there wild animal attracted to the scent of carion?

It's generally assumed that whatever is reanimating the zombies is also slowing their rate of decomposition. The Zombie Survival Guide does more than imply this and outright states that the Solanum virus (which IRL is a potato virus :p) cause all living organism from bacteria to carrion eaters to wild animals (but not humans) to instinctively about zombies.

Alessan
03-30-2015, 11:44 PM
There's no way undead zombies can exist without magic, anyway. I mean, the human body uses so many complex and delicate systems just to stay upright that any concept of walking dead is simply impossible.

Nava
03-31-2015, 12:05 AM
Cool! Thank you! I had taken Elizabeth's armor, in the movie, to be not only fantasy, but absurd and exaggerated fantasy. I guess I'm wrong. Oopsie!

I haven't seen the movie, but looking at the still, what I thought is "St George!" I'm reasonably sure the design was lifted either from a tapestry or from a statue of the saint (Archangel Michael, who is also often represented in armor and fighting a dragon, tends to go for Roman armor).

What's Professor X's power again?

I can't recall, but he's been known to use it to evade taxes, get American passports for his students...




One that drives me nuts is foreign-language troubles, such as signs in Spanish that have evidently been translated by the "a word, a dictionary, a brick" method of translating each word individually from English and picking the dictionary's first offering, or when you have twenty people who are supposed to be from the same area but have widely-differing accents. Someone speaking more "schooled" than someone else sure, if it isn't completely absurd (the lawyer speaks Cockney while the mechanic sounds like he has daily tea with Her Majesty), but twenty Mexicans of which one can't pronounce his own name in Spanish, another has home-Spanish with a heavy American accent, another speaks Venezuelan, another...

Watching such a story, I thought "guess this is what the people at the Dope feel like when they talk about the horrid [location] accent of this or that actor. After all, if casting and director can't be arsed get accents right in their own language, how can we expect them to give a shit in one they don't speak?"

Nava
03-31-2015, 12:21 AM
And from the other cultural side:

My mother recently loaned me a book where the protagonist is the dual-citizen child of an American and a Spaniard. She was born in Spain; the family moved to the US when she was 9 and hasn't returned since. At the beginning of the book she is a 24yo lawyer in a posh law firm in Manhattan, and she's heading legal teams in court. The match of age and job would be hard to believe in Spain (where law school is undergrad) but in the US, I find it even more so. Templar rings that give their bearer dreams of the Siege of Jerusalem, ok, it's a premise of the book. But 24yo heading litigation teams, I have problems with.

Alessan
03-31-2015, 01:52 AM
And from the other cultural side:

My mother recently loaned me a book where the protagonist is the dual-citizen child of an American and a Spaniard. She was born in Spain; the family moved to the US when she was 9 and hasn't returned since. At the beginning of the book she is a 24yo lawyer in a posh law firm in Manhattan, and she's heading legal teams in court. The match of age and job would be hard to believe in Spain (where law school is undergrad) but in the US, I find it even more so. Templar rings that give their bearer dreams of the Siege of Jerusalem, ok, it's a premise of the book. But 24yo heading litigation teams, I have problems with.

That reminds me of a Tom Clancy book featuring an 18-year-old Israeli fighter pilot. Flight school is three years long.

Mijin
03-31-2015, 03:28 AM
Outdated technology jerks me right out of a story. For example, in The Ship Who Sang, you have hideously deformed children who couldn't survive on their own put into metal shells and trained to become intergalactic spaceships. Spaceships whose computers are still programmed with tapes.

There was a recent movie...Captain America 2 I think, where a nazi preserves his consciousness on a WWII-era computer (complete with spinning magnetic tape reels as he thinks).

But actually it was one of the highlights of the movie. So ridiculous you couldn't help but laugh.

JohnT
03-31-2015, 06:23 AM
In Spiderman 2, there's a scene where Spiderman is fighting Doc Ock on a train. In the sequence, Doc picks up Spidey, throws him forward, only to have SM tackled him from behind upon landing.

Looking for scientific accuracy in a film where a kid gets super powers from the bite of a radioactive spider is a fool's game, I get it. But you'd expect basic Newtonian mechanics to still work... right?

You can watch this madness here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z00fTwhmYX0&t=1m42s).

Alessan
03-31-2015, 06:52 AM
In Spiderman 2, there's a scene where Spiderman is fighting Doc Ock on a train. In the sequence, Doc picks up Spidey, throws him forward, only to have SM tackled him from behind upon landing.

Looking for scientific accuracy in a film where a kid gets super powers from the bite of a radioactive spider is a fool's game, I get it. But you'd expect basic Newtonian mechanics to still work... right?

You can watch this madness here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z00fTwhmYX0&t=1m42s).

Actually, that's marginally plausible, depending on Spidey's drag.

JohnT
03-31-2015, 06:56 AM
If Spidey had so much drag as to fall behind Doc Ock, then how did he accelerate to tackle the good Doctor? He plainly didn't grab (either with his hands or his webbing) any part of the skyway to add velocity.

Alessan
03-31-2015, 07:01 AM
Good point.

Ethilrist
03-31-2015, 07:41 AM
Yeah, me too. Mind you, even as a kid in the late 70s, reading Starman Jones, which had FTL ships utilized binary computers (as in, you had to manually input binary numbers via switches) which used spatial coordinates that had to be translated using tables which the astrogater had to read from bound volumes, I had to go "...what, dude? I think we had something more sophisticated than that going to the moon!"

Granted, that book was written a decade or more before then, but really... :smack:

In that novel, Heinlein postulated a jump drive technology in which the final stages of the jump process itself would fry any sophisticated computer, and was none too healthy for the people on board, either. They had mechanical computers and people flipping through books to compute course corrections because computers would be unreliable in the final few seconds before the jump, and those were the most sensitive, on the "guess wrong and you materialize inside a star" sort of problem. Ships that used real computers went out and never came back.

Master Wang-Ka
03-31-2015, 07:59 AM
1. Goatskins.

Any fantasy world is going to have people who dress in animal skins, sure. But unless they're mighty low paleolithic, they're going to make CLOTHES out of the animal skins, even if it winds up being a kilt and crude boots.

But I have seen any number of cheesy movies where our mighty swordswingers and sorcerers are wandering around in the RenFaire woods... and there WILL be a character dressed in what appears to be goatskins tied on with twine. And I don't think "barbarian." I think "guy who couldn't afford a renfaire outfit." The ONE exception is Robinson Crusoe, a guy who had nothing but fish and goats to work with.

2, And I have no trouble with the dead rising to feast on the flesh of the living, but it irritates me when it's been a year or three since civilization collapsed, but we can still hotwire abandoned cars...

Ethilrist
03-31-2015, 08:06 AM
2, And I have no trouble with the dead rising to feast on the flesh of the living, but it irritates me when it's been a year or three since civilization collapsed, but we can still hotwire abandoned cars...
And what's with all the hair product? Watch the final few episodes of a season of Survivor to see what women's hair looks like after just a month with no shampoo.

Peter Morris
03-31-2015, 08:16 AM
Space and time travellers have no trouble communicating with the natives. Apparently, people everywhere from the Andromeda Galaxy to ancient Rome all speak perfect modern English.

Master Wang-Ka
03-31-2015, 08:27 AM
Space and time travellers have no trouble communicating with the natives. Apparently, people everywhere from the Andromeda Galaxy to ancient Rome all speak perfect modern English.

Yeah, but it'd be a much more boring story if Mr. Spock had to stop and learn Mercotanese.

Read a novel once: The Stars My Destination, by Alfred Bester. Excellent book... but early on, our hero saves himself from a wrecked spaceship floating near Jupiter by melting some ice with his body heat, floating the water ON THE SHIP'S ROCKET FUEL, and igniting a spark with a sliver of sodium metal, thus firing the ship's ROCKETS!

Itched at me like hell. A space merchantman running between Earth and the gas giants, using LIQUID ROCKET FUEL?

This, despite the fact that a lot of the book revolves around the fact that all of humanity has developed the psychic ability to teleport short distances; that didn't bother me a a bit. But liquid rocket fuel? Ha!

MrDibble
03-31-2015, 08:36 AM
This, despite the fact that a lot of the book revolves around the fact that all of humanity has developed the psychic ability to teleport short distances; that didn't bother me a a bit. But liquid rocket fuel? Ha!
What's the disbelief? It's not like the fuel was used for take-off or landing, that was all some sort of field effect, as far as I recall.

grude
03-31-2015, 09:56 AM
The actual un-dead kind, not the Raged-up still-living 28 Days Later variety.


Aren't actually dead zombies a sort of self-correcting problem? I mean, tissue still rots and degenerates, yes? And wouldn't being exposed to the elements (as opposed to being tucked away in a coffin six feet under) only accelerate this?


Aren't there wild animal attracted to the scent of carion?

Day Of The Dead, the final Romero original trilogy has a scientist explain the zombies rot at a slow rate and will last at least 15 years!

grude
03-31-2015, 10:01 AM
1. Goatskins.

Any fantasy world is going to have people who dress in animal skins, sure. But unless they're mighty low paleolithic, they're going to make CLOTHES out of the animal skins, even if it winds up being a kilt and crude boots.

But I have seen any number of cheesy movies where our mighty swordswingers and sorcerers are wandering around in the RenFaire woods... and there WILL be a character dressed in what appears to be goatskins tied on with twine. And I don't think "barbarian." I think "guy who couldn't afford a renfaire outfit." The ONE exception is Robinson Crusoe, a guy who had nothing but fish and goats to work with.

2, And I have no trouble with the dead rising to feast on the flesh of the living, but it irritates me when it's been a year or three since civilization collapsed, but we can still hotwire abandoned cars...

People keep saying gasoline goes bad but in my experience even a year old gas stored in a metal gas can works fine.

And why would hair care products be an issue? Do you realize how much scavenged hair care products there are out there? Hit up a Sallys, lifetime supply!

My mom was a hoarder, I've used decades old toothpaste and shampoo that was fine. Canned goods 5-10 years old that was fine.

Master Wang-Ka
03-31-2015, 10:29 AM
People keep saying gasoline goes bad but in my experience even a year old gas stored in a metal gas can works fine.

And why would hair care products be an issue? Do you realize how much scavenged hair care products there are out there? Hit up a Sallys, lifetime supply!

My mom was a hoarder, I've used decades old toothpaste and shampoo that was fine. Canned goods 5-10 years old that was fine.

Gas in your can likely works fine. So does the gas in the can that I keep for my lawnmower; a gallon goes a long way. Gas tank of a Chevy that's been sitting by the roadside for a couple years I would think is a different beast. That, and the fact that even if the gas still has some octane, you're telling me a car that hasn't been started in more than a year is still okay?

Then again, if Daryl can build a motorcycle out of a garage full of parts, maybe he knows something I don't.

And while I agree about the hair care products, I find it a little bizarre to think about Carol and Maggie peeling off from the main group to do a "Salon Raid," stabbing and killing zombie hairstylists and beehive zombies and pageboy zombies and even a Tracy Turnblad zombie, to seek out the hair products they need to survive the Apocalypse...

Master Wang-Ka
03-31-2015, 10:35 AM
A clip from World War Z irked me.

In the commercials, they ran the hell out of this one scene where the zombies are literally swarming up these huge concrete walls in Israel, thousands of zombies making these enormous piles and eventually swarming over the hundred foot walls.

I had no trouble at all with the walking dead... hell, even the RUNNING dead... but upon seeing that scene, my first thought was that the bottom three layers of zombies are going to be squished to grease, which is going to make the upper part of the pile a lot less stable... and because new zombies are swarming, the bottom few layers are going to KEEP getting liquefied... in fact, this whole thing just wouldn't work...

Although it was certainly impressive to look at.

Sir Prize
03-31-2015, 08:53 PM
In Spiderman 2, there's a scene where Spiderman is fighting Doc Ock on a train. In the sequence, Doc picks up Spidey, throws him forward, only to have SM tackled him from behind upon landing.

Looking for scientific accuracy in a film where a kid gets super powers from the bite of a radioactive spider is a fool's game, I get it. But you'd expect basic Newtonian mechanics to still work... right?

You can watch this madness here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z00fTwhmYX0&t=1m42s).Maybe it's because I watched on mute with "I don't know how to love him" playing on a different Youtube clip, but it looked like he threw him at a structure that crossed over the train and Spidy used that to jump at Doc Ock.

alphaboi867
03-31-2015, 09:52 PM
...And while I agree about the hair care products, I find it a little bizarre to think about Carol and Maggie peeling off from the main group to do a "Salon Raid," stabbing and killing zombie hairstylists and beehive zombies and pageboy zombies and even a Tracy Turnblad zombie, to seek out the hair products they need to survive the Apocalypse...

It could be worse, if HBO or Showtime (to say nothing of Starz) made the show we'd all be wondering why women are still waxing years into the zombie apocalypse.

JohnT
03-31-2015, 10:33 PM
Maybe it's because I watched on mute with "I don't know how to love him" playing on a different Youtube clip, but it looked like he threw him at a structure that crossed over the train and Spidy used that to jump at Doc Ock.

Spidey goes through a skywalk, but doesn't use it to either slow him down or speed him up. Regardless, he's only in flight for about 6 seconds, meaning in that period he would have to lose enough velocity so that DO gets ahead of him by 25-50 feet, then propel himself fast enough to catch up.

Others have tried to explain that perhaps the train sped up then slowed down, but trains are heavy and the engines used to power them aren't that powerful.

Naw, it was just a very clever bit of editing that made the scene work... except for pedantic nerds like me, I guess. ;)

I also don't know if it's possible to just twist your body midflight like that, but I'm not willing to be thrown 200 feet to find out. :p

KarlGrenze
04-01-2015, 06:54 AM
In the recent I Am Legend with Will Smith, the Brazilians that he rescues have never heard of Bob Marley.

Assuming this occurs in the 2000-2020s... And even more so in later years... This is ridiculous. Bob Marley is one of the best known, if not the best, reggae players. There are numerous Brazilian reggae bands that cover his songs. Not only that, one of Brazil's most popular singers, Gilberto Gil, covers Bob Marley songs (translated and original English). Lastly, Bob Marley is an icon, his face is plastered in all types of stuff. I've seen his face plastered in some towel that was being used as a curtain in a favela in Brazil.

Yea yea, I can accept the mutant things... I can't accept that a well-educated Brazilian would've been so sheltered as to not recognize such a popular icon as Bob Marley. Even if she didn't know that particular song, if he mentioned "Bob Marley", she could've said "Ah, I know other songs by him!".

Alessan
04-01-2015, 07:19 AM
Wasn't she supposed to be a nun or something? Maybe that explains it.

Ethilrist
04-01-2015, 07:59 AM
It could be worse, if HBO or Showtime (to say nothing of Starz) made the show we'd all be wondering why women are still waxing years into the zombie apocalypse.

Bikini season. Duh.

Sir T-Cups
04-01-2015, 08:07 AM
A better one is in Mass Effect, also by Bioware. One race of aliens mostly have a vague eastern European accent. Fine, until you meat one character who talks and acts like a US marine.

The accents in Mass Effect are all over the map (both literally and figuratively)

Between you're example of the Pesudo-Russian-except-for-one-guy Quarians you have a Japenese character with ZERO accent and about 3 others WITH accents.

And the weird kinda-British accents are just...weird

KarlGrenze
04-01-2015, 09:00 AM
Wasn't she supposed to be a nun or something? Maybe that explains it.

In the movie? I don't remember it. But nuns are not nowadays for the most part kept in a bubble away from popular culture (if they truly ever were). Many work outside or within their convent, interacting with others. And she would still have a youth. She was not too old, likely my own age when I saw that movie (mid-20s)... young enough to have heard of Marley.

Diceman
04-01-2015, 09:43 AM
In the movie? I don't remember it. But nuns are not nowadays for the most part kept in a bubble away from popular culture (if they truly ever were). Many work outside or within their convent, interacting with others. And she would still have a youth. She was not too old, likely my own age when I saw that movie (mid-20s)... young enough to have heard of Marley.
Even if she was cloistered, she didn't grow up as a nun. Unless she's from, say, Eastern Europe or the Phillipines or some other place where reggae has no presence, it is rather absurd that she would have no idea who Bob Marley is.


(Of course, a dozen people will now post links to Filipino raggae singers...)

Master Wang-Ka
04-01-2015, 10:28 AM
In the recent I Am Legend with Will Smith, the Brazilians that he rescues have never heard of Bob Marley.

There are Americans who have never heard of Bob Marley. Hell, I'd be surprised if my old man knew who Bob Marley was; he's the kind of guy who'll pull me aside at a wedding or something and ask, "Is 'black people' still an acceptable noun, or did they go and change it again?"

That being said, I kind of agree with you; I'd have thot most Brazilians would at least have heard of the guy.

DrDeth
04-01-2015, 11:02 AM
There's no way undead zombies can exist without magic, anyway. I mean, the human body uses so many complex and delicate systems just to stay upright that any concept of walking dead is simply impossible.

There's a Niven short story where a virus animates dead bodies, but it only lasts a very short time.

KarlGrenze
04-01-2015, 01:00 PM
There are Americans who have never heard of Bob Marley. Hell, I'd be surprised if my old man knew who Bob Marley was; he's the kind of guy who'll pull me aside at a wedding or something and ask, "Is 'black people' still an acceptable noun, or did they go and change it again?"

That being said, I kind of agree with you; I'd have thot most Brazilians would at least have heard of the guy.

If it had been an old lady, perhaps. But this was a youngish woman from an educated background. In a country and world that up until a few years prior to the start of the movie had current forms of communication (internet, email, mass media).

Lemur866
04-01-2015, 04:58 PM
Ahem. Concerning Pipe-weed, also known as westmansweed:


[Observations] that I have made on my own many journeys south have convinced me that the weed itself is not native to our parts of the world, but came northward from the lower Anduin, whither it was, I suspect, originally brought over Sea by the Men of Westernesse. It grows abundantly in Gondor, and there is richer and larger than in the North, where it is never found wild, and flourishes only in warm sheltered places like Longbottom. The Men of Gondor call it sweet galenas, and esteem it only for the fragrance of its flowers. From that land it must have been carried up the Greenway during the long centuries between the coming of Elendil and our own day. But even the Dúnedain of Gondor allow us this credit: Hobbits first put it into pipes.

JohnT
04-01-2015, 05:47 PM
There are Americans who have never heard of Bob Marley. Hell, I'd be surprised if my old man knew who Bob Marley was; he's the kind of guy who'll pull me aside at a wedding or something and ask, "Is 'black people' still an acceptable noun, or did they go and change it again?"

That being said, I kind of agree with you; I'd have thot most Brazilians would at least have heard of the guy.

I had a 26yo guy, grew up in Texas, ask me yesterday "Who is James Dean?", so yeah, I can find it believable... if implausible.

Blake
04-01-2015, 06:47 PM
I had a 26yo guy, grew up in Texas, ask me yesterday "Who is James Dean?", so yeah, I can find it believable... if implausible.

James Dean has been dead over twice as long as a 26 yo has been alive. Can you name 3 teen idols from 35 years before you were born? Could you have done so at 26?

James dean had a very short career, as a teen idol, 50 years ago. None of the movies he appeared in are considered must-see classics or heavily parodied the way, say, "The Godfather" or "Gone with the Wind" are. Dean had a brief 'comeback' in the early 90s, but he has been largely forgotten for the past 25 years. So of course most 26yos haven't heard of him. I would be more surprised if a 26yo did know who he was than if they didn't.

That's very different to a woman who was a teenager at the height of Bob Marley's popularity not knowing who Bob Marley was. That is more akin to 30 year old woman in 1965 not knowing who James Dean is.

Zsofia
04-02-2015, 12:20 PM
There was a recent movie...Captain America 2 I think, where a nazi preserves his consciousness on a WWII-era computer (complete with spinning magnetic tape reels as he thinks).

But actually it was one of the highlights of the movie. So ridiculous you couldn't help but laugh.
To be fair, it was actually a 60's era computer.

Ethilrist
04-02-2015, 12:39 PM
The lack of blood. In Legend of the Seeker, Kahlan Amnell is a priestess who goes on long treks across the country dressed in a white robe, skilled not only in the use of knives but the ability to kill multiple people with said knives without a drop of blood being spilled.

Side note: I just figured out that Bridget Regan, who played Kahlan, is now playing the Russian assassin in Agent Carter.

Alessan
04-02-2015, 12:55 PM
To be fair, it was actually a 60's era computer.

And really, it's no less realistic than an Iron Man suit, or a Helicarrier. You just have to accept that comic book movies feature comic book technologies. IMHO, it's one of the advantages of the genre - it sets side any scientific nitpicking and allows them to tell the story they want to tell.

Smapti
04-02-2015, 01:26 PM
At the beginning of the book she is a 24yo lawyer in a posh law firm in Manhattan, and she's heading legal teams in court. The match of age and job would be hard to believe in Spain (where law school is undergrad) but in the US, I find it even more so. Templar rings that give their bearer dreams of the Siege of Jerusalem, ok, it's a premise of the book. But 24yo heading litigation teams, I have problems with.

Never play the Ace Attorney games - Phoenix Wright, the main character, at age 22, is the lead defense attorney on a capital murder case in his very first trial, and he's one of the older rookie lawyers introduced in the series - a prosecutor he tangles with later got her first man sentenced to death at 12.

(Granted, this is an anime-ish series where ghosts can legally testify in court, a prosecutor can oversee his own son's trial and nobody has a problem with it, and you can be sentenced to death by default if your attorney takes too long, so they're not really going for real-world accuracy in the first place.)

GuanoLad
04-02-2015, 06:59 PM
And really, it's no less realistic than an Iron Man suit, or a Helicarrier. You just have to accept that comic book movies feature comic book technologies. IMHO, it's one of the advantages of the genre - it sets side any scientific nitpicking and allows them to tell the story they want to tell.Right, this is a world where Howard Stark invented impossible things fifty years before we still haven't invented them yet. If you see what I mean. So if it's a "Stark" PC, it will be quite capable of containing Zola's conscience.

Mijin
04-02-2015, 11:18 PM
Right, this is a world where Howard Stark invented impossible things fifty years before we still haven't invented them yet. If you see what I mean. So if it's a "Stark" PC, it will be quite capable of containing Zola's conscience.

So I was the one that mentioned the nazi computer in Captain America 2, and I only did so because we were talking about outdated looking computers in films -- I just gave it as an example and said in that case I didn't mind it, I found it funny.

Still though I want to respond to some of the points being made.

Firstly, even if we're just in the comic book essentially magic world, it still jars to see the tapes whirring for the same reason the fantastical steam-based machines in a number of films (for some reason only wild wild west comes to mind) seem wrong. It's better to just show no mechanism than one we know has been superceded and has known limitations.

Secondly Captain America is in the marvel universe, but IIRC his own films have at tried for a different level of plausibility and "realism" (scare quotes because obviously I'm just speaking relatively here).
I think those films can be judged as separate entities.
If the defence of "It's the same universe as Iron Man" works for how the nazis can make such outdated technology achieve something the best supercomputers in the world today can't even do 1% of, then we can raise lots of questions such as why none of the avengers helped Captain America trivially solve the problems he encountered in the second movie.

elfkin477
04-03-2015, 11:15 PM
I'm reading No Doors, No Windows by Joe Schreiber right now, and I guess it's okay though nothing particularly scary has happened yet. But I got yanked completely out of the story when the main character took his nephew to a Sunday church service, and then stopped at the Millburn public library on the way home to do some research while the kid was in the children's room. I know that Millburn, New Hampshire is a fictional town but I doubt there's a town in NH that has a (non-university) library with Sunday hours.

Blake
04-04-2015, 02:23 AM
Secondly Captain America is in the marvel universe, but IIRC his own films have at tried for a different level of plausibility and "realism" (scare quotes because obviously I'm just speaking relatively here).

That realism has always included WWI era magic potions, Nazi rocket ships, people falling into glaciers and living for 70 years, flying aircraft carriers, indestructible boomerang shields and a whole lot of other magic technology that is only ever used by the supers and never released to the public. If it was meant to be more realistic, it was by a fine margin. Personally I think that a Nazi super-genius surviving as a one-off in an experimental computer is no more unrealistic than a GI super soldier surviving as a one-off in a glacier. Neither event is meant to be replicable by the average Joe.


If the defence of "It's the same universe as Iron Man" works for how the nazis can make such outdated technology achieve something the best supercomputers in the world today can't even do 1% of...

It's only outdated in the same sense that Caps shield and the WWII Nazi rocket ship are outdated. IOW it's outdated within the movie world but it's incredibly futuristic compared to this reality.

... then we can raise lots of questions such as why none of the avengers helped Captain America trivially solve the problems he encountered in the second movie.

This was explained within the movie: Cap had been framed and was a fugitive. he had no way of securely contacting the other heroes, and even if he did, they were all SHIELD affiliated. He had no way of knowing they would believe him. Bad enough facing ordinary mooks, but the chance of Iron Man siding against you is a hell of gamble.

Of course they could always explain it exactly the same way the comics always do: the other heroes were on their own missions. IOW Captain America 2 takes place simulatenously with Iron Man 3 and Thor 2. That's the reason why Superman and Zatanna never use their abilities to trivially solve Batman's problems, even when his failure will result in the Joker killing millions of people. Top tier heroes have top tier problems that only they can deal with. They don't always have time to help out street level heroes with street level problems, even if they are literally on the same team. And of course all the occasions where they fdo help out are never shown because they are boring. Superman catches the Joker in 3.7 seconds isn't a good story.

Catamount
04-04-2015, 05:25 AM
That realism has always included WWI era magic potions, Nazi rocket ships, people falling into glaciers and living for 70 years, flying aircraft carriers, indestructible boomerang shields and a whole lot of other magic technology that is only ever used by the supers and never released to the public. If it was meant to be more realistic, it was by a fine margin. Personally I think that a Nazi super-genius surviving as a one-off in an experimental computer is no more unrealistic than a GI super soldier surviving as a one-off in a glacier. Neither event is meant to be replicable by the average Joe.

Everyone knows the only thing that can survive being frozen in a glacier is a giant prehistoric praying mantis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deadly_Mantis)

DrDeth
04-04-2015, 02:55 PM
Of course they could always explain it exactly the same way the comics always do: the other heroes were on their own missions. IOW Captain America 2 takes place simulatenously with Iron Man 3 and Thor 2. That's the reason why Superman and Zatanna never use their abilities to trivially solve Batman's problems, even when his failure will result in the Joker killing millions of people. Top tier heroes have top tier problems that only they can deal with. They don't always have time to help out street level heroes with street level problems, even if they are literally on the same team. And of course all the occasions where they fdo help out are never shown because they are boring. Superman catches the Joker in 3.7 seconds isn't a good story.

One reason why I liked the Justice league Unlimited cartoons: every so often they spent 3 seconds explaining Supes or someone was busy. Ya think a movie could do the same?

BrianJ
04-05-2015, 10:40 AM
The accents in Mass Effect are all over the map (both literally and figuratively)

Between you're example of the Pesudo-Russian-except-for-one-guy Quarians you have a Japenese character with ZERO accent and about 3 others WITH accents.

And the weird kinda-British accents are just...weird

That's true, but I'm more forgiving, for some reason, of earth accents from 200 years in the future, than I am for aliens.

grude
04-05-2015, 03:22 PM
In the recent I Am Legend with Will Smith, the Brazilians that he rescues have never heard of Bob Marley.

Assuming this occurs in the 2000-2020s... And even more so in later years... This is ridiculous. Bob Marley is one of the best known, if not the best, reggae players. There are numerous Brazilian reggae bands that cover his songs. Not only that, one of Brazil's most popular singers, Gilberto Gil, covers Bob Marley songs (translated and original English). Lastly, Bob Marley is an icon, his face is plastered in all types of stuff. I've seen his face plastered in some towel that was being used as a curtain in a favela in Brazil.

Yea yea, I can accept the mutant things... I can't accept that a well-educated Brazilian would've been so sheltered as to not recognize such a popular icon as Bob Marley. Even if she didn't know that particular song, if he mentioned "Bob Marley", she could've said "Ah, I know other songs by him!".

This is a script artifact from an earlier version supposed to star Ahhhnold where he is obsessed with the song Gimme Shelter and The Rolling Stones, they changed it to Bob Marley and it doesn't really make sense anymore you're right.

I could see someone not being able to name a BM song(even this strains) but to go who is Bob Marley? Nah no way, unless they are really isolated from western culture.

Kiyoshi
04-05-2015, 08:16 PM
I can't get over the way Tywin Lannister's very special Valerian steel blacksmith melted and cast swords at the beginning of season four.

Really?

I mean, really?

Could you explain this to a non-swordsmith please?

wonky
04-05-2015, 08:45 PM
Could you explain this to a non-swordsmith please?

I assume that it's a problem with "casting" instead of "forging." To cast something, you pour a liquid into a mold. That isn't how you make a steel sword.

Atomic Alex
05-16-2015, 08:10 PM
Game of Thrones, in an episode of Season 4 they had graffiti written in English and they later showed that the books in Kings Landing are also written in English (they never showed the interior of the books closely enough before to tell what language they were in). Took me right out of the story that did, sure I can accept them speaking English in a 'Hunt for Red October' sense (that they're really speaking some other languages but we're hearing it in English). But while I can suspend my disbelief for the spoken word I can't achieve it for the written word apparently.

Oh and Man of Steel, an ungodly strong nigh-invulnerable human-looking alien who flies around wearing his underwear on the outside? Yeah, OK, whatever...
But a 'fifth-generation' farmer running into the path of a tornado to save a dog? I think not, I grew up on a farm and while my family certainly never mistreated our dogs it was made clear from the start that they were working animals and not pets. Farms can be dangerous places and as children we were told that no matter what happens you don't put yourself into harms way to save an animal. I can't imagine it being different for anybody else from a farming background.

I didn't particularly like the movie anyway, but that scene moved it from 'meh' to 'ludicrous' for me, 'fifth-generation farmer'? If that's the way he and his forebears behaved they must have been very short generations.

alphaboi867
05-16-2015, 09:09 PM
The Westerosi books being writing in English didn't bother me (after all if spoken English can stand in for spoken Andalish it might as well be the same for writing). My problem was why are Meereenese slaves writing graffiti in Andalish instead of Meereenese or Ghiscari.

burpo the wonder mutt
05-16-2015, 09:35 PM
This bugs me about ANY movie: someone gets conked on the noggin (gun-butt, frying pan, what have you) and just goes unconscious for a short while, when s/he wakes up, they scratch their head and go merrily on their way--no concussion, no swelling, no blood running off the back of the head, no staggering, no crushed cheek-bones, no bashed-in noses, no skull fractures; occasionally, someone will acknowledge a boo-boo on the back of the head. I've had a near fatal concussion, so this probably makes me cringe worse than other people might.

Don't Panic
05-16-2015, 10:10 PM
Game of Thrones, in an episode of Season 4 they had graffiti written in English and they later showed that the books in Kings Landing are also written in English (they never showed the interior of the books closely enough before to tell what language they were in). Took me right out of the story that did, sure I can accept them speaking English in a 'Hunt for Red October' sense (that they're really speaking some other languages but we're hearing it in English). But while I can suspend my disbelief for the spoken word I can't achieve it for the written word apparently.
I think I have the same problem. This made me think of HBO's Rome*, where the graffiti scribbled on walls, in the intro sequence and sprinkled through the show, is in Latin. And, yeah, you're right, it would really have bothered if it had been in English. Although I don't have a problem with all the Romans walking around speaking English.

That is a strange thing indeed.

(*Which, BTW, is a show that I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with, since it goes out of its way to get things right and do things intelligently, only to turn around and go just as far out of its way to get other things wrong and do things stupidly. But that's for another thread...)

Lobohan
05-16-2015, 11:09 PM
Much the same vein: bad snow. Snow that is obviously shredded plastic.

I don't worry about Doctor Manhattan and Rohrschach and Adrian Veidt -- but bad snow really cheeses me. James Bond can chase nuclear warheads all over the Alps -- but bad snow makes me stop caring. Young Spock can go into Pon Farr over and over, and that's fine -- but that stupid Styrofoam snow got my goat.The Genesis planet had complex hydrocarbon chains in its upper atmosphere as a result of the terraforming, so what you saw was actually intended to be wind-blown Styrofoam.

Yes. I made that up. Sorry.

Trinopus
05-16-2015, 11:23 PM
This bugs me about ANY movie: someone gets conked on the noggin (gun-butt, frying pan, what have you) and just goes unconscious for a short while, when s/he wakes up, they scratch their head and go merrily on their way--no concussion, no swelling, no blood running off the back of the head, no staggering, no crushed cheek-bones, no bashed-in noses, no skull fractures; occasionally, someone will acknowledge a boo-boo on the back of the head. I've had a near fatal concussion, so this probably makes me cringe worse than other people might.

Agreement. (And it's often followed by the "Ow! Antiseptic spray stings!" farce. A guy can get pounded to meatloaf, but when his sweetie gently cleans his wounds, he winces and hisses.)

The Genesis planet had complex hydrocarbon chains in its upper atmosphere as a result of the terraforming, so what you saw was actually intended to be wind-blown Styrofoam. . . .

Oh, well...yeah, that makes perfect sense. (Grin!)

dogbutler
05-17-2015, 07:44 AM
Everybody speaks English. Foreign country? English. Different planet? English. Different galaxy or dimension? English. Distant past, before English came to be as a language? English.

Stargate, I'm lookin' at you...
Or how 1000 years of Frenchmen all have English accents(The Musketeers ,Captain Picard)



A clip from World War Z irked me.

In the commercials, they ran the hell out of this one scene where the zombies are literally swarming up these huge concrete walls in Israel, thousands of zombies making these enormous piles and eventually swarming over the hundred foot walls.

I had no trouble at all with the walking dead... hell, even the RUNNING dead... but upon seeing that scene, my first thought was that the bottom three layers of zombies are going to be squished to grease, which is going to make the upper part of the pile a lot less stable... and because new zombies are swarming, the bottom few layers are going to KEEP getting liquefied... in fact, this whole thing just wouldn't work...

Although it was certainly impressive to look at.
What really bothered me was the airplane lavatory zombie. If they turn in under 30 seconds, how the hell did he get bit, board an airplane, stow his luggage in the overhead bin, then go to the bathroom without anyone noticing?

burpo the wonder mutt
05-17-2015, 09:22 AM
Agreement. (And it's often followed by the "Ow! Antiseptic spray stings!" farce. A guy can get pounded to meatloaf, but when his sweetie gently cleans his wounds, he winces and hisses.)

Would that be Indiana Jones (in "Raiders") you're referring to, me hearty?

buddha_david
05-17-2015, 01:20 PM
This bugs me about ANY movie: someone gets conked on the noggin (gun-butt, frying pan, what have you) and just goes unconscious for a short while, when s/he wakes up, they scratch their head and go merrily on their way--no concussion, no swelling, no blood running off the back of the head, no staggering, no crushed cheek-bones, no bashed-in noses, no skull fractures; occasionally, someone will acknowledge a boo-boo on the back of the head.
The Chevy Chase movie Funny Farm does an inversion of this trope. Chevy tries to knock someone unconscious by punching them in the head, but all he manages to do is beat the living tar out of him.

Someone gets a call from a friend saying, "Quick! Turn on Channel Six!" And when the person turns on the TV, it's always right at the beginning of the news report.

One of the most annoying tropes involves any group of people on the run from the law, they get to a motel or other place of safety and discover there's a news report about their crime spree on television. Every single time, one of the characters will very dramatically grab the remote and SWITCH THE TELEVISION OFF. Wouldn't it be smarter for them to watch the report, to discover how much the police know, where the roadblocks are, and so forth?

D_Odds
05-17-2015, 01:23 PM
Do you have an example that ruins a batshit fantastically unrealistic setting? I'm sure there are lots, I just can't think of any right now, and I'm wondering what you have in mind. That happens in a lot of movies that are unfortunately trying for realism.
Wow, missed this the first time around. Sorry about that. Underworld comes to mind. Selene (Kate Beckinsdale) has a pair of automatic pistols with extended clips that can fire scores upon scores of bullets. The scene that really bothered me was her shooting out the floor underneath her in the hospital.

Don't Panic
05-17-2015, 02:13 PM
Someone gets a call from a friend saying, "Quick! Turn on Channel Six!" And when the person turns on the TV, it's always right at the beginning of the news report.
This problem should actually be just about ready for retirement now. These days, you can say to a friend, "Quick! Go to channelsix.com and clink the video link on their front page!" Although it remains to be seen whether TV shows and movies catch on.

Although, BTW, I saw someone (on the internet) point out that we still don't have a good way of representing the internet in TV and movies (even though people are now figuring out how to show texting in an interesting way). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFfq2zblGXw) So, fame and fortune to be had for the director who figures that one out.

mbh
05-17-2015, 02:14 PM
Hawk the Slayer is a really bad ripoff of J.R.R. Tolkien and Robert E. Howard, filmed on a painfully low budget. That didn't bother me.
Then I noticed that the elf was wearing penny loafers. That bothered me a lot.


From Peter Jackson's version of King Kong:

You are on an uncharted island populated by dinosaurs, giant spiders, and giant apes? No problem.
You get caught in a sauropod stampede and don't get trampled? I don't believe it.

You get kidnapped by a 40-foot tall ape? No problem.
You run around in New York in December wearing only a flimsy silk dress, and don't freeze? I don't believe it.

DrDeth
05-17-2015, 02:38 PM
. Selene (Kate Beckinsdale) has a pair of automatic pistols with extended clips that can fire scores upon scores of bullets. The scene that really bothered me was her shooting out the floor underneath her in the hospital.

That film bugged the hell out of me, since we had kate running around in hot skin tight outfits- in 90% darkness. :mad:

Trinopus
05-17-2015, 05:00 PM
Wow, missed this the first time around. Sorry about that. Underworld comes to mind. Selene (Kate Beckinsdale) has a pair of automatic pistols with extended clips that can fire scores upon scores of bullets. The scene that really bothered me was her shooting out the floor underneath her in the hospital.

I see what you mean...but I loved that bit, as it was a clever and different way to get out of the situation. It wouldn't have worked without super high-power armor piercing bullets, but it was a cute schtick. Thinking outside the box.

(Thinking outside the box doesn't work very often. The box is there for a darn good reason.)

Quartz
05-17-2015, 05:38 PM
Sean Connery's accent in Hunt for Red October initially seems to be one of those unrealistic details, but later on you realise it was a clue to him not being Russian.

D_Odds
05-17-2015, 05:54 PM
I see what you mean...but I loved that bit, as it was a clever and different way to get out of the situation. It wouldn't have worked without super high-power armor piercing bullets, but it was a cute schtick. Thinking outside the box.

(Thinking outside the box doesn't work very often. The box is there for a darn good reason.)

Why I'll Never Be a Screenwriter, Reason #697:

I would have written the scene so that Selene tries the trick, and quickly realizes she's out of bullets. She jumps up and down on the floor, but she doesn't have enough mass to budge it. She must now find another way out, that does not use magic bullet guns.

For whatever reason, that bothered me far more than...say...Van Helsing's pneumatic automagic crossbow.

Trinopus
05-17-2015, 08:57 PM
. . . I would have written the scene so that Selene tries the trick, and quickly realizes she's out of bullets. She jumps up and down on the floor, but she doesn't have enough mass to budge it. She must now find another way out, that does not use magic bullet guns. . . .

That would be doubly funny the second time, just like when Indiana Jones smirks and reaches for his gun...and it isn't in his holster.

DeptfordX
05-18-2015, 06:50 AM
I guess we can all be thankful that Tolkien didn't see fit to let them use nuclear or thermonuclear devices. Or antimatter bombs.

Gandalf had promised all the residents of the Shire*, that this Fireworks display would be unforgettable.


*Now better known as 'The Crater'

Diceman
05-19-2015, 11:36 AM
From Peter Jackson's version of King Kong:

You are on an uncharted island populated by dinosaurs, giant spiders, and giant apes? No problem.
You get caught in a sauropod stampede and don't get trampled? I don't believe it.

You get kidnapped by a 40-foot tall ape? No problem.
You run around in New York in December wearing only a flimsy silk dress, and don't freeze? I don't believe it.
None of that bothered me. What did bother me, and pulled me out of the movie, was: How did they get Kong off the island? He's as big as the freakin boat, so even if they could somehow muster the manpower to lift him (maybe with the villagers help?) the boat would immediately sink like a rock. It annoyed me to no end that the movie glossed over this problem.

Lemur866
05-19-2015, 12:15 PM
What really bothered me was the airplane lavatory zombie. If they turn in under 30 seconds, how the hell did he get bit, board an airplane, stow his luggage in the overhead bin, then go to the bathroom without anyone noticing?

No, the unrealistic part is that we have a gigantic anti-zombie concrete wall that surrounds Israel. OK, that's actually fine. Perfectly plausible to build hundreds of miles of 100 foot concrete walls around an entire country in a few days, just on the off-chance the rumors about zombies turn out to be true. No problem, that's the can-do spirit Israelis are known for.

But that there are no army guys patrolling the top of the wall? No towers with heavy weapons? No snipers on the wall taking out zaks one headshot after another? Seriously?

astorian
05-19-2015, 12:28 PM
The one that always breaks suspension of disbelief for me is the behavior of predators.

Hero is trudging through the jungle, oblivious. Suddenly he hears a loud roar. He turns around slowly, and there's a lion/thanator/grizzly/killbot. The predator does another threat display. The hero turns and runs, the predator waits for a second and then takes off chasing the hero.

Why did the lion roar? In real life, if a lion was behind you and about to pounce, it wouldn't roar. It would pounce on you from behind. Lions don't believe in fair fights. Neither do killbots or Denebian Slime Devils. Or patrolling soldiers. I don't know how many soldiers sneak up just behind the hero, have their gun pointed at the hero's head, yell "Freeze!", at which the hero whips around, pulls out his gun, and shoots the soldier dead.

For some reason they always shoot human minions who do this, but always run away from predators who do this.


Spot on.

If a predator roars, he's telling you "Get the hell out of my territory."

If he wants to kill you, he doesn't roar- he just attacks. Why give your prey a heads up?

Turpentine
05-19-2015, 01:10 PM
A few people have mentioned being annoyed by animals on tv not behaving naturally. I work with mice and rats on a daily basis, so I get annoyed that whenever a rodent is featured onscreen, it's always squeaking.

Mice (and rats) rarely squeak- at least not in the range of human hearing. The only time they usually make any vocalizations is if you're injecting them and even then, not always.

On tv the mice and rats are constantly making sounds like squeaky toys.

Turpentine
05-19-2015, 01:16 PM
The Fly.

OK, so both organisms get equal genetic vote regardless of relative biomass. Cool. I can deal with that.

But what about genetically distinct microbes living within and without Brundle and especially the fly? (Also aren't mitochondrions genetically distinct, too?)

Shouldn't they have become Brundlegerm, the 185-pound single-celled organism?

Actually that might be scarier, especially if he could divide via fission and consume via osmosis.

I'm ok with this one because I tell myself "well, maybe only eukaryotes can be teleported..." That would work unless Brundle has intestinal parasites or something. Oh wait- he most certainly must have some fungal cultures on his skin, we all do. He'd be a creepshow giant mushroom fly-man- like a Mario enemy.

::shrug::- I guess it only works with organisms of kingdom animalia.

Anaamika
05-19-2015, 01:35 PM
This bugs me about ANY movie: someone gets conked on the noggin (gun-butt, frying pan, what have you) and just goes unconscious for a short while, when s/he wakes up, they scratch their head and go merrily on their way--no concussion, no swelling, no blood running off the back of the head, no staggering, no crushed cheek-bones, no bashed-in noses, no skull fractures; occasionally, someone will acknowledge a boo-boo on the back of the head. I've had a near fatal concussion, so this probably makes me cringe worse than other people might.

This bothers me a lot lately. Sometimes in comedies people get conked on the head three or four times!

You get kidnapped by a 40-foot tall ape? No problem.
You run around in New York in December wearing only a flimsy silk dress, and don't freeze? I don't believe it.

And she would never have run outside in just her slip in those days! She would have been appalled to be in her underwear.

Kate Beckinsale's scene with the guns and the floor may have been cool but real guns don't have unlimited ammo, and that is what bothers me about that scene. She used an awful lot of bullets!

Unlimited ammo in general bothers me.


Also another thing that has been bothering me is when a whole lot of people somehow manage to sneak up on the hero. Like, he turns around, and the villain has brought his noisy ass army up. It was in Hobbit:Battle of the Five armies when the elves showed up at the door without anyone noticing. Um, elves might be quiet. 200+ elves showing up in full battle armor are not quiet. But, then, there was an awful lot that bothered me about that movie.

Andy L
05-19-2015, 05:57 PM
One thing that bothers me oddly is when the "non-player characters" (i.e. everybody who is not actually in the script) are assumed to be desperately uninterested in what's going on. For example, in "Smallville" Lois Lane publicly dates Oliver Queen, the famous billionaire playboy, but even after Oliver's secret identity as Green Arrow is revealed, Lois can wander around in public without be swarmed by the press (or the simply curious).

Zsofia
05-20-2015, 10:47 AM
A few people have mentioned being annoyed by animals on tv not behaving naturally. I work with mice and rats on a daily basis, so I get annoyed that whenever a rodent is featured onscreen, it's always squeaking.

Mice (and rats) rarely squeak- at least not in the range of human hearing. The only time they usually make any vocalizations is if you're injecting them and even then, not always.

On tv the mice and rats are constantly making sounds like squeaky toys.
Horses do the same thing. Always whinnying.

amanset
05-20-2015, 11:54 AM
These are mostly from x Reasons to Hate the Star Wars prequels but the actual examples bothered when I first saw them in the films as well:

In The Phantom Menace
When Obi-Wan first encounters Darth Maul. He asks Qui Gon Jinn "What was it?" as if it were something totally strange when clearly "it" was a man. In a universe where they refer to a giant slug as a "he" why would a guy dressed in traditional male clothing, with male features, be referred to as "it"?

Then there's a two headed announcer that talks like a modern day American sports commentator: "I don't care what galaxy you're from, that had ta hurt!" Star Wars takes place a long time ago...not in the future. So why talk like American sports commentators?

All it takes is one senator to say "I vote no confidence" and they pick a new chancellor. I was like, "wait, what? That's all they have to do to kick out the chancellor?"

Why do so many of the starships look brand new in Ep I, but in the OT they all have that used technology look? I'm guessing that since it took place before the OT the rational is that things were new. But that doesn't make any sense unless they just started making starships when Ep I happened, and they stopped making new starships after Ep III ended.

And let's not forget that horrible diner with Irish-American owner and dotty waitress cliché.

buddha_david
05-20-2015, 03:59 PM
Horses do the same thing. Always whinnying.
Cats, too. Every time a cat appears onscreen, they have to overdub a "meow" just so you know that you are, in fact, looking at a cat.

dogbutler
05-20-2015, 10:35 PM
No, the unrealistic part is that we have a gigantic anti-zombie concrete wall that surrounds Israel. OK, that's actually fine. Perfectly plausible to build hundreds of miles of 100 foot concrete walls around an entire country in a few days, just on the off-chance the rumors about zombies turn out to be true. No problem, that's the can-do spirit Israelis are known for.

But that there are no army guys patrolling the top of the wall? No towers with heavy weapons? No snipers on the wall taking out zaks one headshot after another? Seriously?

Well, Israel believed the first reports, and was building it when the outbreak was just a few scattered Zacks. Although someone pointed out in the original World War Z thread that the current Israeli border fortifications are better than the wall.

grude
05-20-2015, 10:50 PM
And let's not forget that horrible diner with Irish-American owner and dotty waitress cliché.

Don't forget the "sports bar" earlier in the movie that Anakin and Obiwan chase the shape shifting assassin into, with what looks like football being played by droids on big screens.

I'm sure I've posted this before, but these were big thing that made me hate the prequels, total lack of imagination.

Compare to one of the great scenes of all cinema, the cantina scene in the first Star Wars movie. It was so alien and intriguing and imaginative, like another reality where a bar exists that dozens of species frequent.

burpo the wonder mutt
05-20-2015, 11:50 PM
Compare to one of the great scenes of all cinema, the cantina scene in the first Star Wars movie. It was so alien and intriguing and imaginative, like another reality where a bar exists that dozens of species frequent.<snip>

When the first (now #4) SW soundtrack album came out, the liner notes for the Cantina Band track had John Williams saying he and Lucas had the idea that these aliens found some Benny Goodman sheet music under a rock somewhere and this is how they interpreted it. And I thought that was super clever.

Penfeather
05-21-2015, 12:57 AM
Also another thing that has been bothering me is when a whole lot of people somehow manage to sneak up on the hero. Like, he turns around, and the villain has brought his noisy ass army up. It was in Hobbit:Battle of the Five armies when the elves showed up at the door without anyone noticing. Um, elves might be quiet. 200+ elves showing up in full battle armor are not quiet. But, then, there was an awful lot that bothered me about that movie.

Or the ambush which succeeds by lurking offscreen; we can't see it, so the hero can't either. That one particularly annoyed me in Phantom Menace, where Darth Maul bushwhacks our heroes as they traipse across the desert by riding up behind them on a noisy hoverbike.

erysichthon
05-21-2015, 03:04 AM
Underworld comes to mind. Selene (Kate Beckinsdale) has a pair of automatic pistols with extended clips that can fire scores upon scores of bullets. The scene that really bothered me was her shooting out the floor underneath her in the hospital.

The Mythbusters tried to replicate that stunt in one of their "movie myths" episodes. Needless to say, it didn't work.

Smid
05-21-2015, 03:22 AM
...a scene where the snowman and the boy take flight, and proceed to fly over the town of Brighton. They continue onwards over the sea, and fly to the North Pole, where they meet Santa Claus and a bunch of other snowmen. On the way they pass various people, landscapes and animals, including some penguins.

So did they go out to sea from the town of Brighton? Because that's heading south, and the question is not about penguins and is more about whether Santa is in the South Pole....

Don't Panic
05-21-2015, 06:28 AM
So did they go out to sea from the town of Brighton? Because that's heading south, and the question is not about penguins and is more about whether Santa is in the South Pole....
Yeah, I thought about that. They do go south from Brighton, but the thing is that they only pass over winter landscapes. So, as far as I can make out, they turn around at some point and swing back in over land heading north (possibly around Norway, judging by the terrain). It seems to make the most sense (for certain unusual values of "sense") that way. A long-haul flight across the Atlantic all the way south is, I suppose, not something we can rule out, but it doesn't seem to work from what we see. IMO, at least. Watch the clip, I think you'll get what I mean.

MrAtoz
05-21-2015, 07:40 AM
None of that bothered me. What did bother me, and pulled me out of the movie, was: How did they get Kong off the island? He's as big as the freakin boat, so even if they could somehow muster the manpower to lift him (maybe with the villagers help?) the boat would immediately sink like a rock. It annoyed me to no end that the movie glossed over this problem.

I suspect that's an allusion, if that's the word, to the original 1933 version of King Kong, which is equally glossed over. The '33 film does contain the line "We'll build a raft and float him to the ship," but that really doesn't cover the logistics of it.

There is a fascinating interview with Merian C. Cooper, the producer-director of the original Kong. It's found in Tom Weaver's book Earth Vs. the Sci-Fi Filmmakers (http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Vs-Sci-Fi-Filmmakers-Interviews/dp/0786495723/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432211479&sr=8-1&keywords=earth+vs.+the+sci+fi+filmmakers), even though Weaver did not conduct the interview. Cooper was asked about that, and about how they were able to sneak Kong into New York and onto the stage of a Broadway theater without anyone finding out about it. Charmingly enough, his response was basically, "Look, it's a movie about a giant ape! You gotta give me a few unrealistic things."

CalMeacham
05-21-2015, 07:53 AM
Everyone knows the only thing that can survive being frozen in a glacier is a giant prehistoric praying mantis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deadly_Mantis)

That's not true.

Giant prehistoric Rhedosaurs can do it, too. And earlier:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beast_from_20,000_Fathoms

So, for that matter, can unrealistic-looking T. Rexs (earlier still):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arctic_Giant

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