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pricciar
03-24-2015, 08:28 PM
"Love in the Time of Hydra"
Directed by: Jesse Bochco
Written by: Brent Fletcher

Fantastic title. Perhaps the best the show has come up with so far. I'm guessing this means we will get to see good ole Ward again. I wonder what he has been up to.


Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E01: Shadows (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=735202)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E02: Heavy is the Head (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=735949)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E03: Making Friends And Influencing People (open spoilers) (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=736682)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E04: Face My Enemy (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=737365)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E05: A Hen in the Wolf House (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=738138)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E06: A Fractured House (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=738875)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E07: The Writing on the Wall (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=740542)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E08: The Things We Bury (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17911046)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E09:...Ye Who Enter Here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=742435)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E10: What They Become (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=743084)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E11: Aftershocks (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=750827)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E12: Who You Really Are (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=751400)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E13: One of Us (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=751940)

levdrakon
03-24-2015, 10:30 PM
Go Hunter!

I was kinda thinking Coulson has Bob doing deep cover again, like she did inside Hydra, but I guess with Coulson & May both concluding Mac is dirty, that's out. I knew May wasn't buying Mac's excuses anymore.

Got kinda burned out on Adama, so he makes a good bad guy this time.

Did someone forget to Gordon-proof Skye's little compound? Oops. Maybe shoulda given that two thoughts.

Talbot cracks me up.
"Get down on the ground now!"
"Honey!"

Talbot knows the mask can impersonate a male. That was sloppy.

Declan
03-24-2015, 11:00 PM
Go Hunter!

I was kinda thinking Coulson has Bob doing deep cover again, like she did inside Hydra, but I guess with Coulson & May both concluding Mac is dirty, that's out. I knew May wasn't buying Mac's excuses anymore.

Got kinda burned out on Adama, so he makes a good bad guy this time.

Did someone forget to Gordon-proof Skye's little compound? Oops. Maybe shoulda given that two thoughts.

Talbot cracks me up.
"Get down on the ground now!"
"Honey!"

Talbot knows the mask can impersonate a male. That was sloppy.

Adama flying another carrier, so ...........................sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

Push You Down
03-25-2015, 12:15 AM
I like Talbot as a hardcase who is always one step behind...not a buffoon.

This episode wasn't very good at all.

AK84
03-25-2015, 05:21 AM
Talbot knows the mask can impersonate a male. That was sloppy.

Actually, the mask only affects the facial features and body type. It does not change clothing. Talbot was right to guess that intruder (who he saw was wearing unmistakably women's clothing) would likely be a woman or wearing female attire.

What was unrealistic was the fact she changed so quickly into chubby airman's uniform, what with everyone running about.

muldoonthief
03-25-2015, 08:21 AM
So in a previous episode, it appeared that Coulson has a list of every single SHIELD asset and agent, and their status after the Hydra incident. Did this aircraft carrier and hundreds (thousands?) of agents somehow not make it onto the list?

And I know "black gear with a helmet" is pretty standard, but man, those SHIELD guards did look like they walked right off the Galactica set.

Telemark
03-25-2015, 08:55 AM
OK episode, not great. Nice to see Ward back - there's really no way the audience is ever going to trust him again. He's clearly lying to Agent 33 (his remarks about his family) and the only question is "Is he lying to himself?" With the discussion about how his former handler (spacing his name) molded him into a killer you have to wonder what he's molding Agent 33 into? I assume it's for his own ends. And they've killed several people including the guy who helped with the mask and several guards, so they're not really redeemable. Interesting comments he made about Skye, but either he's secretly still in love with her or planning his revenge on her.

Watching this with my wife she remarked that everything the SHIELD v2.0 agents were saying was true. She is actually rooting for them, not Coulson. Not hard to see how people can pick sides.

In her own way I really think Simmons is trying to do what's best for Skye. I predict that she's going to make a stand somewhere down the road and it's going be to defend Skye.

My gut feel is that Bobbi is a double agent for Coulson, but that doesn't seem likely.

The Other Waldo Pepper
03-25-2015, 09:04 AM
And I know "black gear with a helmet" is pretty standard, but man, those SHIELD guards did look like they walked right off the Galactica set.

It's as if all of this has happened before.

levdrakon
03-25-2015, 09:47 AM
Adama flying another carrier, so ...........................sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetNow that you mention it, I suppose we should be on the lookout for BSG easter eggs & references.

muldoonthief
03-25-2015, 10:10 AM
Like Agent 33? Whose real name is Kara?

levdrakon
03-25-2015, 10:45 AM
So in a previous episode, it appeared that Coulson has a list of every single SHIELD asset and agent, and their status after the Hydra incident. Did this aircraft carrier and hundreds (thousands?) of agents somehow not make it onto the list?

And I know "black gear with a helmet" is pretty standard, but man, those SHIELD guards did look like they walked right off the Galactica set.If the carrier disappeared, wouldn't they assume Hydra got it? Hydra got a lot of sweet military equipment.

silenus
03-25-2015, 11:03 AM
:p
My gut feel is that Bobbi is a double agent for Coulson, but that doesn't seem likely.

Triple agent for Fury. :p

Lightray
03-25-2015, 11:15 AM
And I know "black gear with a helmet" is pretty standard, but man, those SHIELD guards did look like they walked right off the Galactica set.
My first thought was "Well, that doesn't look like a HYDRA base."

If you want people to think you're the Good Guys, wear bright colors and turn on the damn lights.

Black gear and dim lighting I expect it to be all Spaceballs with stormtroopers and Darths stumbling into everything.

Intergalactic Gladiator
03-25-2015, 12:40 PM
Talbot cracks me up.
"Get down on the ground now!"
"Honey!"



That line about the Edible Arrangements killed me.

Push You Down
03-25-2015, 12:55 PM
So in a previous episode, it appeared that Coulson has a list of every single SHIELD asset and agent, and their status after the Hydra incident. Did this aircraft carrier and hundreds (thousands?) of agents somehow not make it onto the list?


He may have had a list of their status but that doesn't mean they stayed put.

Not all of them or even a significant number went with Coulson. As seen at the end of Cap 2- Sharon went to the CIA. Hill went to Stark. I'm sure a lot of them went different ways. Coulson picked up ones that wanted to stay SHIELD. This SHIELDv3 probably scooped up anyone else or has even been recruiting.

levdrakon
03-25-2015, 01:00 PM
Bobby sorta let Hunter go. Adama sorta didn't wet his pants over it. All part of the plan?

DrDeth
03-25-2015, 01:06 PM
Bobby sorta let Hunter go. Adama sorta didn't wet his pants over it. All part of the plan?

There is no character named Adama in this show. You mean Robert Gonzales (Edward James Olmos)?


In any case Adama was played by Lorne Greene, who passed in 1987.

Johnny Q
03-25-2015, 01:30 PM
I think Bobbi sorta figured that the rest of an elite covert agency stationed on a boat in the middle of nowhere could probably stop one guy before he got away.
"I won't stop you, but everybody else will."

Paul Giamatti's line from Shoot 'em Up comes to mind:

"Do we really suck or is he really that good?"

levdrakon
03-25-2015, 01:35 PM
There is no character named Adama in this show. You mean Robert Gonzales (Edward James Olmos)?


In any case Adama was played by Lorne Greene, who passed in 1987.Okay then. Gaff.

Lightray
03-25-2015, 02:01 PM
Bobby sorta let Hunter go. Adama sorta didn't wet his pants over it. All part of the plan?
I was wondering if Angry Hey-It's-That-Guy playing Adama's lieutenant was part an Adama goodcop/badcop to test Bobbi.

So, was this just a SHIELD aircraft carrier, or does Adama have the SHIELD helicarrier? Either way, you'd think someone would've kept track of that thing. Maybe bring up its whereabouts in the Congressional hearings that Natasha had to go to.

levdrakon
03-25-2015, 02:04 PM
Adama use a modern helicarrier? Blasphemy. He's old school. No networks on his boat.

DrDeth
03-25-2015, 02:07 PM
So, was this just a SHIELD aircraft carrier, or does Adama have the SHIELD helicarrier?

Boy is there anything stupider in military history than the SHIELD helicarrier? They seem to exist only to be taken over or crashed.

in any case-There is no character named Adama in this show. You mean Robert Gonzales (Edward James Olmos).

Lightray
03-25-2015, 02:08 PM
Well, I'd assume it would be the one with the turbine fans., so that's plenty old school. We know what happened to the ones with repulsor engines...

Declan
03-25-2015, 02:09 PM
I was wondering if Angry Hey-It's-That-Guy playing Adama's lieutenant was part an Adama goodcop/badcop to test Bobbi.

So, was this just a SHIELD aircraft carrier, or does Adama have the SHIELD helicarrier? Either way, you'd think someone would've kept track of that thing. Maybe bring up its whereabouts in the Congressional hearings that Natasha had to go to.

If my math is correct, there is five carriers. One from the original avengers, and the four from winter soldier, I am betting that this is the original carrier.

Declan

muldoonthief
03-25-2015, 02:45 PM
If my math is correct, there is five carriers. One from the original avengers, and the four from winter soldier, I am betting that this is the original carrier.

Declan

There were only 3 in Winter Soldier, and none of them survived the movie.

silenus
03-25-2015, 02:49 PM
in any case-There is no character named Adama in this show. You mean Robert Gonzales (Edward James Olmos).

Whatever you say, Canute.

Declan
03-25-2015, 03:38 PM
There were only 3 in Winter Soldier, and none of them survived the movie.



So we have just proved that My Math is incorrect.

Declan

DarkFire
03-25-2015, 04:46 PM
Now that you mention it, I suppose we should be on the lookout for BSG easter eggs & references.

The bald guy yelling that they should throw Hunter in the brig immediately gave me a flashback to Colonel Tigh on BSG.

galen ubal
03-25-2015, 05:22 PM
I was annoyed how Talbot was played as a fool - you don't reach that rank if you're that much of a buffoon. I did enjoy the "edible arrangements" line.
Gonzales' carrier was a "regular" carrier - you could see the waves in some shots. My wife thought that ocean waves would have a noticeable effect inside the carrier, but I'm not so sure. Can any Dopers shed any light on whether a person on an aircraft carrier would notice motion from (calmish) waters?
Mac's not much of a liar - I'm glad May wasn't fooled.

muldoonthief
03-25-2015, 06:13 PM
I was annoyed how Talbot was played as a fool - you don't reach that rank if you're that much of a buffoon. I did enjoy the "edible arrangements" line.
Gonzales' carrier was a "regular" carrier - you could see the waves in some shots. My wife thought that ocean waves would have a noticeable effect inside the carrier, but I'm not so sure. Can any Dopers shed any light on whether a person on an aircraft carrier would notice motion from (calmish) waters?
Mac's not much of a liar - I'm glad May wasn't fooled.

Sure, it was definitely in the water, but so was the heli-carrier in the beginning of the Avengers.

dropzone
03-25-2015, 07:31 PM
The bald guy yelling that they should throw Hunter in the brig immediately gave me a flashback to Colonel Tigh on BSG.
There is no character named Colonel Tigh in this show. You mean Agent Calderon (Kirk Acevedo)?

In any case Colonel Tigh was played by Terry Carter, who is still alive.


I have spoken against casual, purely aesthetic plastic surgery before, but a few years back a wart grew on the corner of my lip. I am not vain, but it annoyed me, so I got some of that salicylic acid in collodion wart dissolver and in a couple weeks it was gone. Adrianne Palicki is a woman of great beauty who can make fake eyelashes of a size and magnificence not seen since 1970 work very, very well, and has a distinctive enough Midwest cornfed look that she doesn't need a flaw to accentuate her beauty. However, the show had a short hiatus and, I dunno, maybe she could've dabbed some Compound W on that third eye she's growing between her eyebrows. Just a thought.

levdrakon
03-25-2015, 07:36 PM
OMG, you can't mention that!

Little Nemo
03-25-2015, 07:58 PM
Not a very good episode.

The stuff with Skye and all that was basically filler. Although I did like how Fitz made the connection that he and Skye had both changed and people needed to accept the new versions of them rather than trying to "fix" them.

I hated the Talbot stuff. As others have said, he should not be portrayed as an idiot.

The Shield 2 idea is interesting but it defies my suspension of belief that it's supposedly existed all this time with Shield 1 knowing about it. I also field that the Shield 2 people could have done a better job of presenting themselves.

But I liked the Ward and 33 story. My take is that Ward has decided he's done with being a puppet and now he wants to be a puppet master.

Little Nemo
03-25-2015, 08:01 PM
OMG, you can't mention that!Nice to mole you--meet you! Nice to meet your mole! Don't say mole. I said mole. MOLE! Bloody mole! We're not supposed to talk about the bloody mole, but there's the bloody mole winking me in the face! I'm gonna chop it off and cut it up and make some guacamole!

levdrakon
03-25-2015, 08:03 PM
LOL.

dasmoocher
03-25-2015, 08:20 PM
OMG, you can't mention that!

See, I thought you meant Adama and Col. Tigh.

dropzone
03-25-2015, 09:53 PM
I didn't know that about them. I mean, Adama was gruff and Tigh, though passionate, didn't seem to like him much. But people were more closeted then.

dropzone
03-25-2015, 09:59 PM
... fake eyelashes of a size and magnificence...I left out "obviousness." They aren't tapered at the ends to make an attempt at subtlety. They just stop. I only see those on showgirls and drag queens these days.

And they look great.

gonzoron
03-26-2015, 08:47 AM
Totally agreed about Talbot the buffoon. What a way to neuter a threat.

Hunter's good, but good enough to steal a sub or plane or whatever he stole off an armed carrier on alert? Ridiculous.

I feel like this whole 2nd Shield thing is the writers regretting killing off Hydra so completely. They want the intra-team intrigue stuff, but Ward and Hydra already did it so well, this comes off as second-rate knockoff.

That mask is really something... it can change body size and shape too? and skin color on the body and hands? whuh?

Delightfully creepy scene of 33 as Skye. Though it did remind me of a scene from Angel. Lilah as Fred, anyone? "Leave them on." (and where did she get a picture of Skye?) I am enjoying her arc quite a bit. Did the diner scene remind anyone of Pulp Fiction, or just me?

And I loved Skye's lampshading of Coulson's Lola analogy.

A step up from last episode, but still clunky.

Telemark
03-26-2015, 08:59 AM
That mask is really something... it can change body size and shape too? and skin color on the body and hands? whuh?

I think they did a pretty good job of showing that the mask only affected the face. The voice never changed, nor the height, and the bodies were hidden by bulky clothes. I didn't look at the hands, so I'm not sure how visible they were.

Trion
03-26-2015, 09:20 AM
There is no character named Adama in this show. You mean Robert Gonzales (Edward James Olmos)?


There is no character named Colonel Tigh in this show. You mean Agent Calderon (Kirk Acevedo)?


I'm going to call them Adama and Charlie. And NOBODY CAN STOP ME!!!!! Muahahahahah!!!

Sorry.

Anyway - - - I don't understand the problem New SHIELD has with Coulson? He has secrets? So? As a spy agency, shouldn't they have secrets? What, specifically, do they expect to do differently? Be more forthcoming with the field agents? Perform mission live streaming on YouTube?

Ethilrist
03-26-2015, 09:53 AM
I was annoyed how Talbot was played as a fool - you don't reach that rank if you're that much of a buffoon.
Well, somebody told him that haircut looks good on him...

The Shield 2 idea is interesting but it defies my suspension of belief that it's supposedly existed all this time with Shield 1 knowing about it. I also field that the Shield 2 people could have done a better job of presenting themselves.
Yeah, it's totally unreasonable that there could be a covert group hiding within Shield. That'd never work.

Hunter's good, but good enough to steal a sub or plane or whatever he stole off an armed carrier on alert? Ridiculous.
It was too easy; they let him go. They probably planted a tracker on him so they can follow him back to the rebel base.

Telemark
03-26-2015, 09:54 AM
What, specifically, do they expect to do differently?

Not inject the director with alien DNA?

Cayuga
03-26-2015, 09:59 AM
That mask is really something... it can change body size and shape too?

I think they did a pretty good job of showing that the mask only affected the face. The voice never changed, nor the height, and the bodies were hidden by bulky clothes.

Ward even said to the actor playing Agent 33 playing the male GI, "The uniform's a little big for you," and s/he replied, "This was the shortest male I could find," or something to that effect.

Trion
03-26-2015, 10:05 AM
Not inject the director with alien DNA?

Then they should be fine with Coulson. He never did that.

Neverending Elbow
03-26-2015, 10:08 AM
Anyway - - - I don't understand the problem New SHIELD has with Coulson? He has secrets? So? As a spy agency, shouldn't they have secrets? What, specifically, do they expect to do differently? Be more forthcoming with the field agents? Perform mission live streaming on YouTube?

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. They want a more open and candid spy agency? And they are trying to achieve that by remaining hidden and sending undercover agents in? What? I think it means, they just don't like it anyone kept secrets from them, but they can keep all the secrets they want.

Little Nemo
03-26-2015, 10:11 AM
Anyway - - - I don't understand the problem New SHIELD has with Coulson? He has secrets? So? As a spy agency, shouldn't they have secrets? What, specifically, do they expect to do differently? Be more forthcoming with the field agents? Perform mission live streaming on YouTube?That's the problem I'm having. I can see why Gonzalez' Shield might want to take over Coulson's Shield and add it to its own organization - but why treat it as an enemy? Coulson's team has been fighting Hydra, defending Earth from aliens, neutralizing superpowered villians, etc - why should the other Shield have a problem with this?

I think it would actually make for a more interesting story. If Gonzalez was just trying to take over Coulson's group it wouldn't be a clear threat - some of the members of the team might wonder if this was necessarily a bad idea. And this is true for us viewers as well. I think it might be good to see Coulson back as a team leader answering to somebody above rather than being the director of the whole organization.

Darth Panda
03-26-2015, 10:15 AM
Delightfully creepy scene of 33 as Skye. Though it did remind me of a scene from Angel. Lilah as Fred, anyone? "Leave them on."

It took me right to Buffybot..

DrDeth
03-26-2015, 11:31 AM
That's the problem I'm having. I can see why Gonzalez' Shield might want to take over Coulson's Shield and add it to its own organization - but why treat it as an enemy? Coulson's team has been fighting Hydra, defending Earth from aliens, neutralizing superpowered villians, etc - why should the other Shield have a problem with this?

I think it would actually make for a more interesting story. If Gonzalez was just trying to take over Coulson's group it wouldn't be a clear threat - some of the members of the team might wonder if this was necessarily a bad idea. And this is true for us viewers as well. I think it might be good to see Coulson back as a team leader answering to somebody above rather than being the director of the whole organization.

Yeah, that makes no sense.

Also, how exactly was Coulson made the Director?:confused: Other than by a "dead man" telling him he was?

Why not just tell Coulson that Gonzales is the Director, not him?

levdrakon
03-26-2015, 11:40 AM
I feel like this whole 2nd Shield thing is the writers regretting killing off Hydra so completely. They want the intra-team intrigue stuff, but Ward and Hydra already did it so well, this comes off as second-rate knockoff.It also introduces an important theme. We have some who think aliens & superpowered people are acceptable and potentially helpful and useful, and on the other side we have those who see aliens and superpowered beings as a dangerous threat. We can only trash New York so many times before people complain and say "we must do something!"

Orr, G.
03-26-2015, 12:53 PM
Did the diner scene remind anyone of Pulp Fiction, or just me?


The wife and I had to replay that scene since she was inspired to do her excellent Honeybunny impression, and I broke out in my abysmal acapella of Miserlou (I rock the air guitar, tho).

That would have been a pretty awesome moment for Fury to make a reappearance, even if that would have trashed the plot. Oh well.

gonzoron
03-26-2015, 02:09 PM
I think they did a pretty good job of showing that the mask only affected the face. The voice never changed, nor the height, and the bodies were hidden by bulky clothes. I didn't look at the hands, so I'm not sure how visible they were.The uniformed lieutenant (?) that Talbot cheek-pinched had noticeably large breasts that the male soldier did not, bulky clothes or no. And we got a good look at Mrs. Talbot's hands to show the ring. They look a good deal older than Skye's when she squeezed Ward's shoulders from behind.

I mean, yeah, we know these are all different actors playing the same character. But it strains credulity quite a bit that no one would notice if her body didn't match the face. (at the very least, it should have been something Talbot would have checked for the one female soldier in his lineup who was black. Hands not white? you're legit.) Ming Na is stunningly well-preserved at 51. But there's no way her hands look like 22 year old Chloe Bennet's.

Intergalactic Gladiator
03-26-2015, 03:03 PM
It also introduces an important theme. We have some who think aliens & superpowered people are acceptable and potentially helpful and useful, and on the other side we have those who see aliens and superpowered beings as a dangerous threat. We can only trash New York so many times before people complain and say "we must do something!"

You might say that there could possibly be a civil war over this...

Darth Panda
03-26-2015, 09:05 PM
You might say that there could possibly be a civil war over this...

Tea and crumpets for everyone!

levdrakon
03-26-2015, 09:13 PM
Tea and crumpets for everyone!Who are you, Captain Britain?

Lightray
03-27-2015, 07:56 AM
They kind of had to make Talbot a buffoon, since he was in charge of rounding up all the SHIELD assets (as seen when they stole a Quinjet), but he somehow managed to miss an entire Helicarrier.

It was too easy; they let him go. They probably planted a tracker on him so they can follow him back to the rebel base.
You mean, back to the base that SHIELD2 had already infiltrated with not one, but two agents? That's right up there with an underpants gnomes plan.

muldoonthief
03-27-2015, 08:39 AM
It was too easy; they let him go. They probably planted a tracker on him so they can follow him back to the rebel base.

You mean, back to the base that SHIELD2 had already infiltrated with not one, but two agents? That's right up there with an underpants gnomes plan.

I have a bad feeling about this...

Darth Panda
03-27-2015, 09:26 AM
Who are you, Captain Britain?

Let the Cross Time Caper begin!

Bryan Ekers
03-27-2015, 09:28 AM
It was too easy; they let him go. They probably planted a tracker on him so they can follow him back to the rebel base.

You mean, back to the base that SHIELD2 had already infiltrated with not one, but two agents? That's right up there with an underpants gnomes plan.

Use your imagination. You can imagine quite a bit.

Cinnamon Imp
03-27-2015, 09:35 AM
Who are you, Captain Britain?

Let the Cross Time Caper begin!

Sounds more like Inspector Spacetime to me.

amarinth
03-27-2015, 09:54 AM
So in a previous episode, it appeared that Coulson has a list of every single SHIELD asset and agent, and their status after the Hydra incident. Did this aircraft carrier and hundreds (thousands?) of agents somehow not make it onto the list?Thank you!
That bugged me. They were searching worldwide for anyone who was in SHIELD. If there were a half dozen high level agents, why weren't they found? Why wouldn't Coulson had reached out to Adama last fall. The team was also stuck in a motel room for a while because they didn't have any money. Where did this group get the aircraft carrier?
The idea that SHIELD would splinter into factions with Fury gone kind of makes sense. That the second faction has that much man & tech power when Coulson really was given the keys to the kingdom does not.

Push You Down
03-27-2015, 11:25 AM
Thank you!
That bugged me. They were searching worldwide for anyone who was in SHIELD. If there were a half dozen high level agents, why weren't they found? Why wouldn't Coulson had reached out to Adama last fall. The team was also stuck in a motel room for a while because they didn't have any money. Where did this group get the aircraft carrier?
The idea that SHIELD would splinter into factions with Fury gone kind of makes sense. That the second faction has that much man & tech power when Coulson really was given the keys to the kingdom does not.

I think the stranger idea is that anyone thinks a large multi-national security and defense force tasked with containing and studying extraordinary powers, extra-dimensional threats and super science...would be reduced to working in a motel with a tiny handful of agents because governments and the World Security Council (who was willing to nuke New York) would just shrug and say "oh well that didn't pan out" and move on. The only thing that made Coulson's Shield the "real" Shield was Fury (who is dead to the world) saying Coulson was in charge and giving him access to off the books gear and safehouses.

I assume that Adama's Shield has actual covert backing and is legitimate in the eyes of those with power.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 12:24 PM
I assume that Adama's Shield has actual covert backing and is legitimate in the eyes of those with power.


There is no character named Adama in this show. You mean Robert Gonzales (Edward James Olmos)?

Telemark
03-27-2015, 01:03 PM
There is no character named Adama in this show. You mean Robert Gonzales (Edward James Olmos)?
Please, let it go. We're going to call him Adama until he's killed off. And if Lucy Lawless comes back she'll be referred to as Xena until we can come up with a cute name for her. We already had Hunter killing Hunter.

amarinth
03-27-2015, 01:23 PM
I think the stranger idea is that anyone thinks a large multi-national security and defense force tasked with containing and studying extraordinary powers, extra-dimensional threats and super science...would be reduced to working in a motel with a tiny handful of agents because governments and the World Security Council (who was willing to nuke New York) would just shrug and say "oh well that didn't pan out" and move on. The only thing that made Coulson's Shield the "real" Shield was Fury (who is dead to the world) saying Coulson was in charge and giving him access to off the books gear and safehouses.When I'm watching fiction, I tend to suspend my disbelief based on what the protagonists seem to believe and how they act (unless I'm given a good reason not to, like they're crazy or lying or unreliable or very underinformed). And I'm usually willing to go with the rules of the world as they seem to understand them. So when Coulson, who has had a more or less reliable POV, seemed to think it rational that they'd be reduced to working out of a motel room, I was willing to go along with them.

But now that you've made that very good point - what the hell? what the hell was Coulson thinking? why did I believe him? I now need an explanation of why he didn't see it.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 01:36 PM
Please, let it go. We're going to call him Adama until he's killed off. And if Lucy Lawless comes back she'll be referred to as Xena until we can come up with a cute name for her. We already had Hunter killing Hunter.

Look, characters have names. You can use the characters name or the actors name. Calling a character by a name from two shows ago was a hallmark of a recently deceased and not mourned site about TV with no Compassion. It was their crappy little in-joke shtick, it's not the SDMB's (we have plenty of our own :p ). Be original eh?

So, stop already, please.

levdrakon
03-27-2015, 01:49 PM
Sometimes takes me awhile to remember all the characters' names and I don't always feel like looking them up just for a quick post. So, I use nicknames of various kinds. We've been doing that for years. I was no fan of TwoP, and I hated using their nicknames, but the practice of using nicknames wasn't invented by them.

If you want to post the entire cast list at the top of every page, fine. Personally I don't see the big deal.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 01:56 PM
Sometimes takes me awhile to remember all the characters' names and I don't always feel like looking them up just for a quick post.
Well, since I posted his name three times in this thread- I certainly think you can remember it. Or refer to him by his role "Alternate SHIELD Director". Maybe someone has never seen BSG and is confused.

silenus
03-27-2015, 01:58 PM
Look, characters have names. You can use the characters name or the actors name. Calling a character by a name from two shows ago was a hallmark of a recently deceased and not mourned site about TV with no Compassion. It was their crappy little in-joke shtick, it's not the SDMB's (we have plenty of our own :p ). Be original eh?

So, stop already, please.

Fine, from now on I'll call him Lt. Castillo.

levdrakon
03-27-2015, 01:58 PM
Yes, you did. It was annoying each time.

YogSothoth
03-27-2015, 02:00 PM
FYI I have no idea of the names of any of the new people introduced as the heads of the new Shield. In my head, I call them Old Leader Guy, Unreasonably Angry Guy, Black Guy, and Woman. If they have names, they'd better repeat it more than once for me to remember.

Little Nemo
03-27-2015, 02:12 PM
I think the stranger idea is that anyone thinks a large multi-national security and defense force tasked with containing and studying extraordinary powers, extra-dimensional threats and super science...would be reduced to working in a motel with a tiny handful of agents because governments and the World Security Council (who was willing to nuke New York) would just shrug and say "oh well that didn't pan out" and move on. The only thing that made Coulson's Shield the "real" Shield was Fury (who is dead to the world) saying Coulson was in charge and giving him access to off the books gear and safehouses.It's made no sense since Winter Soldier. A spy agency needs a source of funding to keep going. Somebody's got to pay for all that jet fuel. But other than an occasional passing reference, the issue was never addressed.

As for whatever official government authority used to back Shield, they apparently decided it was too compromised by Hydra and wrote it off. Talbott's military agency is supposed to have taken over Shield's mission and its surviving assets.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 02:14 PM
Yes, you did. It was annoying each time.

Yep, I know a lot of people find being wrong and being corrected is "annoying". But this is the SDMB, whose motto is "Fighting Ignorance since 1973" not "Stealing other boards Crappy in-jokes".

Come up with something original at least.

Little Nemo
03-27-2015, 02:19 PM
Fine, from now on I'll call him Lt. Castillo.He'll always be Gaff to me.

Little Nemo
03-27-2015, 02:23 PM
FYI I have no idea of the names of any of the new people introduced as the heads of the new Shield. In my head, I call them Old Leader Guy, Unreasonably Angry Guy, Black Guy, and Woman. If they have names, they'd better repeat it more than once for me to remember.For the record:

Old Leader Guy - Gonzales
Unreasonably Angry Guy - Calderon
Black Guy (who was actually white) - Oliver
Woman - Weaver

Telemark
03-27-2015, 02:41 PM
Unreasonably Angry Guy - Calderon
I rather like UAG - it's got a good beat and you can dance to it.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 02:43 PM
For the record:

Old Leader Guy - Gonzales
Unreasonably Angry Guy - Calderon
Black Guy (who was actually white) - Oliver
Woman - Weaver

This is original, I'll grant you that! :p Not to mention i got a chuckle out of it.

Push You Down
03-27-2015, 02:44 PM
As for whatever official government authority used to back Shield, they apparently decided it was too compromised by Hydra and wrote it off. Talbott's military agency is supposed to have taken over Shield's mission and its surviving assets.

...That's what they want the public to think.

simster
03-27-2015, 02:48 PM
its the old "no true shield" ploy.

levdrakon
03-27-2015, 02:51 PM
So, Talbot inherited what was left of Shield. But, Fury had lots of hidden assets, and that's what Coulson has now? How's that funded? How is Shield 2 funded?

silenus
03-27-2015, 02:52 PM
Selling arms to the Contras?

Bryan Ekers
03-27-2015, 02:52 PM
How is Shield 2 funded?

Quite effectively, it seems.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 03:00 PM
I think the stranger idea is that anyone thinks a large multi-national security and defense force tasked with containing and studying extraordinary powers, extra-dimensional threats and super science...would be reduced to working in a motel with a tiny handful of agents because governments and the World Security Council (who was willing to nuke New York) would just shrug and say "oh well that didn't pan out" and move on. The only thing that made Coulson's Shield the "real" Shield was Fury (who is dead to the world) saying Coulson was in charge and giving him access to off the books gear and safehouses.



But what was the Other SHIELD doing while Coulson and his band of rag-tag misfits fought and beat HYDRA on their own? That alone should make any SHIELD agent think twice about supporting the Other SHIELD.

Lightray
03-27-2015, 03:12 PM
So, Talbot inherited what was left of Shield. But, Fury had lots of hidden assets, and that's what Coulson has now? How's that funded? How is Shield 2 funded?
Talbot didn't inherit what was left of SHIELD; he was tasked with hunting down what was left of SHIELD (and sorting it out from its HYDRA bits).

He missed an entire helicarrier, apparently.

And, let's be realistic here: Edward James Olmos is only on this show because he played Adama on BSG. His entire characterization, so far, is "Adama from BSG with a cane". Of course we're going to call him Adama -- that's who he's playing. Not a one of us will bat an eye when he drops his helicarrier on someone in the season finale.

At least Lucy Lawless, when she was cast because she played Xena, isn't actually playing "Xena in sensible clothes". We should probably call her D'Anna.

levdrakon
03-27-2015, 03:20 PM
Talbot didn't inherit what was left of SHIELD; he was tasked with hunting down what was left of SHIELD (and sorting it out from its HYDRA bits).

He missed an entire helicarrier, apparently.

And, let's be realistic here: Edward James Olmos is only on this show because he played Adama on BSG. His entire characterization, so far, is "Adama from BSG with a cane". Of course we're going to call him Adama -- that's who he's playing. Not a one of us will bat an eye when he drops his helicarrier on someone in the season finale.

At least Lucy Lawless, when she was cast because she played Xena, isn't actually playing "Xena in sensible clothes". We should probably call her D'Anna.:)

Okay, so Talbot is hunting Coulson, but also working with him when convenient. But, still technically hunting him?

IvoryTowerDenizen
03-27-2015, 03:44 PM
DrDeth drop correcting people for using a past character's name to refer to a role played by the same actor. It's been done before and there is nothing against the rules about it. It is clear the posters know who they are referring to and don't need your "corrections". If you are genuinely confused as to who is being referred to then ask. Otherwise you're just Jr. Modding and hijacking the conversation.

Yep, I know a lot of people find being wrong and being corrected is "annoying". But this is the SDMB, whose motto is "Fighting Ignorance since 1973" not "Stealing other boards Crappy in-jokes".

Come up with something original at least.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 03:45 PM
nm.

silenus
03-27-2015, 03:52 PM
NM? Wasn't he a friend of Ludicrous Lion on H.R. Pufnstuf?

I thought that was him playing Innocent Bystander #3! :p

levdrakon
03-27-2015, 04:37 PM
FYI I have no idea of the names of any of the new people introduced as the heads of the new Shield. In my head, I call them Old Leader Guy, Unreasonably Angry Guy, Black Guy, and Woman. If they have names, they'd better repeat it more than once for me to remember.BTW, UAG is also a character on the new 24 Monkeys show. Is he hired purely for his over-the-top gravely voice or what?

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 04:45 PM
NM? Wasn't he a friend of Ludicrous Lion on H.R. Pufnstuf?

I thought that was him playing Innocent Bystander #3! :p


:D:p:)

Darth Panda
03-27-2015, 05:06 PM
Sounds more like Inspector Spacetime to me.

In case you aren't familiar, the Cross Time Caper is a story arc from the original Excalibur run by Chris Claremont and Alan Davis i the early 90s (with Captain Britain being one of the founding members of Excalibur). The arc had its ups and downs (Davis ended up leaving partway and Claremont left after it was over but still had some unresolved character developments) but it's one of my all-time favorites and it was, I thought, very unique and creative. Plus it had just about the coolest lineup ever (Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler, Phoenix, Shadowcat, and Lockheed).

Declan
03-27-2015, 05:11 PM
Yeah, that makes no sense.

Also, how exactly was Coulson made the Director?:confused: Other than by a "dead man" telling him he was?

Why not just tell Coulson that Gonzales is the Director, not him?

Coulson was appointed Director by Fury, which seems reasonable in a comic book world, but was it really Fury's appointment to give. I would expect that Fury could nominate someone, but that they would require something along the lines of senate or congressional confirmation. Clearly G-man has that confirmation, else having control of a strategic asset like a helicarrier would start involving national govts.

My line of thinking is that G-man has a positive outcome where shield absorbs Coulsons merry men and assets and goes from there, but is planning for a negative outcome, should Coulson demure. What is left, is to figure out , what Fury's legacy in the tool box is and how it can be played.

Declan

levdrakon
03-27-2015, 05:17 PM
I thought part of G-man's concern was that Fury himself was corrupted by all this alien tech blasphemy. I think he's all rogue. Maybe he has allies in government, but he's not operating above board at all. Talbot & Coulson should both know about him.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 05:29 PM
Coulson was appointed Director by Fury,

Except who knows that, who even knows Fury is alive?

And why doesnt Gonzales just call Coulson up and say "Hey, Dude, nice fight vs HYDRA and keeping the faith, but I am the rightfully appointed Director, not you. OK?"

and again, wtf what was Gonzales and his shit-load of agents and possibly helicarrier doing while Coulson & co fought HYDRA all by their lonesome?

Johnny Q
03-27-2015, 05:29 PM
If they live to the end of the month I might remember their names. For now they're just spare blood.

DrDeth
03-27-2015, 05:34 PM
If they live to the end of the month I might remember their names. For now they're just spare blood.

Dude- "Alucard" is just Dracula spelled backwards. :p

I kid, I kid! (It's a joke, son!):o:D

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Alucard

Push You Down
03-27-2015, 05:35 PM
If they live to the end of the month I might remember their names. For now they're just spare blood.

ALUCARD is Dracula spelled backwards! - some peasant

Little Nemo
03-27-2015, 05:42 PM
Coulson was appointed Director by Fury, which seems reasonable in a comic book world, but was it really Fury's appointment to give. I would expect that Fury could nominate someone, but that they would require something along the lines of senate or congressional confirmation.I don't think Fury had any authority to appoint an official successor. He essentially appointed Coulson as his spiritual successor. He said that Coulson still believed in Shield's original mission of protecting humanity from aliens and superpowers so he should be the guy in charge of whatever is left of Shield. But the only thing Fury's blessing really carried was that Shield loyalists who had been loyal to Fury would probably follow Coulson in turn. That and whatever hidden assets Fury handed over.

Up until this latest episode, it appeared the official government position was that Shield was disbanded. Loyal Shield employees were supposed to report to Talbott's agency to be debriefed. And Shield employees who didn't report as ordered were going rogue - even if they weren't Hydra, they were legally nothing more than mercenaries.

Now the big question is who Gonzales' group is. Is it another unofficial agency like Coulson's? Some group working for Talbott? A reformed version of the old Shield? A new agency with the old name? A Hydra front?

Declan
03-27-2015, 06:34 PM
So barring any unforseen events, I am calling it as

May sides with Coulson
Fitz goes over to battlestar helicarrier
Skye sides with Coulson in spirit, but gets spirited away by sightless
Simmons neutral, which way the wind blows
Mac and Bobbi, already team Gonzales
Hunter, goes team Coulson out of spite, can be brought aboard team Gonzales eventually

Ward totally out of control

33 could be salvaged for either team.

Declan

levdrakon
03-27-2015, 06:44 PM
So barring any unforseen events, I am calling it as

May sides with Coulson
Fitz goes over to battlestar helicarrier
Skye sides with Coulson in spirit, but gets spirited away by sightless
Simmons neutral, which way the wind blows
Mac and Bobbi, already team Gonzales
Hunter, goes team Coulson out of spite, can be brought aboard team Gonzales eventually

Ward totally out of control

33 could be salvaged for either team.

DeclanMy take:
May stays with Coulson, and she'll continue to question his motivations as appropriate.
Fitz? He goes with Coulson and Skye. They both share the "changed misfit people treat differently" thing.
Skye does indeed get whisked away by Gordon the teleporter, or at least he shows up and gets to know her. She stays loyal to her Coulson family but wuvs her new family and won't betray them.
Simmons is iffy. She'll stay with Coulson but she'll be confused and stuff.
Mac swallowed the koolaid. He belongs to Gonzales.
Bobbi is barely on board with Gonzo. She switches back to Coulson & Hunter.
Hunter. This dude is all about honesty and loyalty. He's Coulson's.
Ward: He & 33 do their own thing, as co-dependant whackjobs. 33 might leave Ward though. She's not as nuts as he is.

Bryan Ekers
03-27-2015, 06:59 PM
I'm just waiting to see more factions: Tri-Shield. Shield Quatro. Penta-Shield, etc. That last one is only active a few days a month.

Little Nemo
03-27-2015, 07:46 PM
I'm just waiting to see more factions: Tri-Shield. Shield Quatro. Penta-Shield, etc. That last one is only active a few days a month.And then they get to Sex-a-Shield with Skye, May, Jenna, and Bobbi and the series moves to Cinemax.

Lightray
03-27-2015, 08:30 PM
I'm not so sure that Fury can't appoint whomever he wants to head SHIELD. Robert Redford basically said that he only headed SHIELD because Fury recruited him. And all the shadowy Star Chamber guys got killed except Jenny Agutter, so unless she appointed Adama, Fury appointing Coulson seems about as "official" as you get for an organization that's supposed to be officially dismantled.

In case you aren't familiar, the Cross Time Caper is a story arc from the original Excalibur run by Chris Claremont and Alan Davis i the early 90s (with Captain Britain being one of the founding members of Excalibur). The arc had its ups and downs (Davis ended up leaving partway and Claremont left after it was over but still had some unresolved character developments) but it's one of my all-time favorites and it was, I thought, very unique and creative. Plus it had just about the coolest lineup ever (Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler, Phoenix, Shadowcat, and Lockheed).
But also gave us Widget and Lion-O. Er, I mean Kylun. Who maybe weren't the lamest lineup additions ever, but who should probably be glad that Maggott was around to take that title from them.

levdrakon
03-27-2015, 09:22 PM
BTW, UAG is also a character on the new 24 Monkeys show. Is he hired purely for his over-the-top gravely voice or what?That's embarrassing. It's 12 Monkeys, not 24. See, I told you my memory is shot.

Little Nemo
03-27-2015, 09:50 PM
I'm not so sure that Fury can't appoint whomever he wants to head SHIELD. Robert Redford basically said that he only headed SHIELD because Fury recruited him. And all the shadowy Star Chamber guys got killed except Jenny Agutter, so unless she appointed Adama, Fury appointing Coulson seems about as "official" as you get for an organization that's supposed to be officially dismantled.It's unlikely the World Security council were personally financing Shield. They were presumably the representatives of the national governments that supported Shield. Killing them was the equivalent of killing the ambassadors who sit on the United Nations Security Council - their deaths might disrupt things but only until new ambassadors were appointed by the home governments.

Cinnamon Imp
03-28-2015, 03:21 AM
In case you aren't familiar, the Cross Time Caper is a story arc from the original Excalibur run by Chris Claremont and Alan Davis i the early 90s (with Captain Britain being one of the founding members of Excalibur). The arc had its ups and downs (Davis ended up leaving partway and Claremont left after it was over but still had some unresolved character developments) but it's one of my all-time favorites and it was, I thought, very unique and creative. Plus it had just about the coolest lineup ever (Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler, Phoenix, Shadowcat, and Lockheed).

Apologies, indeed I was not familiar. Couldn't resist a Community reference though!

BTW, UAG is also a character on the new 24 Monkeys show.

You mean Ramsey? ;)

Darth Panda
03-28-2015, 08:42 AM
But also gave us Widget and Lion-O. Er, I mean Kylun. Who maybe weren't the lamest lineup additions ever, but who should probably be glad that Maggott was around to take that title from them.

I left them out for a reason...

Little Nemo
03-28-2015, 10:07 AM
Ward: He & 33 do their own thing, as co-dependant whackjobs. 33 might leave Ward though. She's not as nuts as he is.My feeling is she's in for a long ride. Ward is turning himself into Garrett and 33 is his Ward.

levdrakon
03-28-2015, 10:37 AM
My feeling is she's in for a long ride. Ward is turning himself into Garrett and 33 is his Ward.Wasn't 33 a regular Shield agent who got brainwashed? Or was she Hydra before that? I figure if she used to be a good agent, then eventually some of the brainwashing might wear off. Ward, OTOH, is who he is.

MrDibble
03-28-2015, 11:06 AM
Wasn't 33 a regular Shield agent who got brainwashed? Or was she Hydra before that?
She was a regular (good) Shield agent who got captured.

LibrarySpy
03-28-2015, 11:10 AM
The bald guy yelling that they should throw Hunter in the brig immediately gave me a flashback to Colonel Tigh on BSG.

That's Kirk Acevedo, and I was just as happy to see him as the old man. I guess they couldn't get Tahmoh Penikett.

Skye-May-Kara was the best thing ever. And by best, I mean hottest. And by hottest, I mean creepy as fuck.

I concede you guys are probably right that the entire plot is nonsensical, so I'm going to give a shoutout to my boy Fitz as the best character on the show right now. He's going to lose his mind if Mac betrays him, too.

Also yay Ward and his suit.

Andy L
03-29-2015, 06:38 AM
It was fun to see actors from Fringe and Pushing Daisies in this episode.

The weird little thing that jumped out at me was the placement of the vases in Ward and 33's room - the moment I saw them, I anticipated a smashing...

Ethilrist
03-29-2015, 07:53 AM
But now that you've made that very good point - what the hell? what the hell was Coulson thinking? why did I believe him? I now need an explanation of why he didn't see it.
Aliens. ALIENS IN HIS BRAIN...

Why not just tell Coulson that Gonzales is the Director, not him?
If Coulson ever needs to break cover, he will have the unquestioning support of The Avengers. Remember, Sif & Maria Hill know he's alive, and Hill's working for Stark.

Simmons neutral, which way the wind blows
Unless somebody pries open her closed little mind and convinces her to grow the hell up, she's going to continue to be violently anti-alien power, which is about as non-neutral as you can get. She's anti-power because of that happened to Fitz (in spite of no powers being involved when Ward dumped them in the ocean...) and Fitz can't even seem to get through to her. I'm still not sure what the mandate of Gonzalez's group is, so I'll say that (barring her seeing the light) she's going to land on whichever side is taking a harder stance against powers. Until the Avengers show up, which is probably what it would take to snap her out of it. That, or twu wuv.

dropzone
03-29-2015, 08:44 AM
Yes, Simmons doesn't deal with change well, which makes it hard to handle the universe she is in. Perhaps she should transfer to the Harvey Comics universe, where absolutely nothing ever changes.

Dendarii Dame
03-29-2015, 05:42 PM
When Coulson said that he thought Fitz wanted a monkey, I yelled, "Curious George, Agent of SHIELD!"

bienville
03-30-2015, 05:24 AM
When Coulson said that he thought Fitz wanted a monkey, I yelled, "Curious George, Agent of SHIELD!"

Fitz wanting a monkey was a running gag during the first season. I enjoyed hearing it get a mention again after so long.

Ethilrist
03-30-2015, 07:17 AM
When Coulson said that he thought Fitz wanted a monkey, I yelled, "Curious George, Agent of SHIELD!"

"Lance Link, Secret Chimp!"

What?

Push You Down
03-30-2015, 11:30 AM
Fitz wanting a monkey was a running gag during the first season. I enjoyed hearing it get a mention again after so long.

Seems like a perfect way to introduce either of these characters....



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b1/Hitmonkey1.jpg/250px-Hitmonkey1.jpg

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/gorillaman.jpg

levdrakon
03-30-2015, 11:36 AM
I've completely forgotten about Fitz wanting a monkey.

Half Man Half Wit
03-31-2015, 04:21 PM
Hunter's good, but good enough to steal a sub or plane or whatever he stole off an armed carrier on alert? Ridiculous.
For some reason, I was instantly convinced that Hunter was actually still on the carrier, and the dropped boat was just a ruse, but I can't really say why. It just seemed too conspicuous, like the opened window with the curtains blowing in when the character's actually hiding in the closet.

Dendarii Dame
03-31-2015, 06:01 PM
When Coulson mentioned that Steve Rogers stayed in the safe house for a couple of weeks, I told my husband, "Bet they didn't just have somebody look in on him every couple of days."

He agreed. "Someone stayed with him. Steve Rogers and Nick Fury: the New Odd Couple!"

tripthicket
03-31-2015, 06:38 PM
In one of the Age of Ultron trailers/sneak peeks, Steve and Tony are having a 'discussion' whilst taking turns chopping wood outside a cabin. Wonder if this will turn out to be the same cabin. It'd be a nice Easter Egg if they did.

Ethilrist
04-01-2015, 07:48 AM
When Coulson mentioned that Steve Rogers stayed in the safe house for a couple of weeks, I told my husband, "Bet they didn't just have somebody look in on him every couple of days."

He agreed. "Someone stayed with him. Steve Rogers and Nick Fury: the New Odd Couple!"

Coulson did say he watched Steve while he was sleeping. Not that that's creepy or anything.

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