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-   -   John Bolton fired via Tweet (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=881793)

Lance Turbo 09-10-2019 11:13 AM

John Bolton fired via Tweet
 
Or that's at least how this news went public. Tweet.

Mr. '5,000 troops to Colombia' is out. Good. Fuck that war mongering piece of garbage.

bobot 09-10-2019 11:16 AM

Very funny video clip (toward the top for now) in a response there, of Trump calling him "Mike Bolton".

Aspenglow 09-10-2019 11:18 AM

I'm glad to see the back of him. He's a horror show.

I just worry how much worse the horror show gets going forward. And when one must worry about how bad things can get after John Bolton, one knows we are in serious trouble.

LOL, bobot, I can hear how that ran through his demented head: "Therefore, I'm firing Mike P -- John Bolton!"

CairoCarol 09-10-2019 11:19 AM

I'm not sorry Bolton is gone, but ... was this anything close to a reasoned decision, or just Trump being impetuous? Were there signs Bolton was on his way out or did this announcement come out of the blue?

Buck Godot 09-10-2019 11:19 AM

Damn it!

I'd been meaning to start a Trump administration death pool thread in Elections, and was going to put Bolton at the top of my list. Now it's too late.

Lance Turbo 09-10-2019 11:23 AM

Bolton counter Tweets!

Quote:

I offered to resign last night and President Trump said, "Let's talk about it tomorrow."
Dysfunctional fucking shitshow.

Typo Negative 09-10-2019 11:26 AM

Trump has never made a reasoned decision.

Anyone who works for him ought to know by now that he will eventually turn on them.

Shoeless 09-10-2019 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobot (Post 21851636)
Very funny video clip (toward the top for now) in a response there, of Trump calling him "Mike Bolton".

Trump probably thought he had hired Michael Bolton, and it took him this long to figure out who the guy with the walrus mustache was that kept showing up.

Vinyl Turnip 09-10-2019 11:39 AM

Kudos to Trump for doing the right thing— by which I mean correcting his horrible decision to appoint Bolton in the first place, and doing so on a whim, for the dumbest, pettiest, most narcissistic and ill-considered reasons.

AK84 09-10-2019 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CairoCarol (Post 21851643)
I'm not sorry Bolton is gone, but ... was this anything close to a reasoned decision, or just Trump being impetuous? Were there signs Bolton was on his way out or did this announcement come out of the blue?

When you lay dying on Afghanistans plains.... Bolton wanted to remian.

ElvisL1ves 09-10-2019 11:48 AM

Kipling, "The Young British Soldier":

Quote:

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.

KneadToKnow 09-10-2019 11:49 AM

A co-worker just walked in and announced, "Trump finally did something right!"

I guessed "shot himself in the head," but that wasn't it.

Sage Rat 09-10-2019 11:58 AM

Yes, I strongly opposed Bolton's efforts to block Venezuela from being taking over by a dictator, protect democracy in Hong Kong, and treat the Taliban like partial instigators of 9/11.

Good riddance!

Ike Witt 09-10-2019 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Rat (Post 21851760)
Yes, I strongly opposed Bolton's efforts to block Venezuela from being taking over by a dictator, protect democracy in Hong Kong, and treat the Taliban like partial instigators of 9/11.

Good riddance!

And don't forget the constant pressing to go to war with Iran....

OttoDaFe 09-10-2019 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CairoCarol (Post 21851643)
I'm not sorry Bolton is gone, but ... was this anything close to a reasoned decision, or just Trump being impetuous? Were there signs Bolton was on his way out or did this announcement come out of the blue?

My guess is that he simply lost the Bolton vs Pompeo over-the-top battle royal grudge match.

It's been said before, but this seems to be further proof — if any were needed — that CFSG loves it when his subordinates are at each others' throats. Like a certain other historical autocrat whose name escapes me at the moment (Adelbert? Adramelech? …).

Sage Rat 09-10-2019 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike Witt (Post 21851779)
And don't forget the constant pressing to go to war with Iran....

And Churchill believed that they needed to slap Germany on the wrist after they remilitarized the Rhineland.

One notes that Israel has destroyed a number of Iranian military possessions in Syria, near the Israeli border, as "slaps on the wrist" and those were effective and did not lead to war. They just stopped Iran from continually testing the resolve of Israel.

Asserting that X means war does not mean that X means war. That view needs to be backed by evidence and reason, not a personal animosity for military action, regardless of everything.

The current evidence is that Iran is rational. They take what they can get away with and stop when they can't.

Defensive Indifference 09-10-2019 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip (Post 21851702)
Kudos to Trump for doing the right thing— by which I mean correcting his horrible decision to appoint Bolton in the first place, and doing so on a whim, for the dumbest, pettiest, most narcissistic and ill-considered reasons.

This is still what passes for good news these days.

Horatius 09-10-2019 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CairoCarol (Post 21851643)
I'm not sorry Bolton is gone, but ... was this anything close to a reasoned decision, or just Trump being impetuous? Were there signs Bolton was on his way out or did this announcement come out of the blue?



He finally had had enough of those ridiculous sideburns!

wevets 09-10-2019 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Rat (Post 21851760)
Yes, I strongly opposed Bolton's efforts to block Venezuela from being taking over by a dictator, protect democracy in Hong Kong, and treat the Taliban like partial instigators of 9/11.

Good riddance!


You've got to learn to be more Moneyball about this - Bolton's below his VORNSA because of the Iran thing, not because of any of those things.

Lance Turbo 09-10-2019 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Rat (Post 21851760)
Yes, I strongly opposed Bolton's efforts to block Venezuela from being taking over by a dictator, protect democracy in Hong Kong, and treat the Taliban like partial instigators of 9/11.

Good riddance!

Oh you beautiful goofball. Don't ever change.

aurora maire 09-10-2019 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance Turbo (Post 21851658)
Bolton counter Tweets!

Dysfunctional fucking shitshow.

And now comes the "disavowal" tweets.

"Totally ill prepared and ill equipped John Bolton (I didn't really know him) made up a story that he resigned. He is a liar and a terrible negotiator and I fired him like a dog. Sad!"

Sage Rat 09-10-2019 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Rat (Post 21851817)
And Churchill believed that they needed to slap Germany on the wrist after they remilitarized the Rhineland.

One notes that Israel has destroyed a number of Iranian military possessions in Syria, near the Israeli border, as "slaps on the wrist" and those were effective and did not lead to war. They just stopped Iran from continually testing the resolve of Israel.

Asserting that X means war does not mean that X means war. That view needs to be backed by evidence and reason, not a personal animosity for military action, regardless of everything.

The current evidence is that Iran is rational. They take what they can get away with and stop when they can't.

I'll also note the (probable) Obama era effort to destroy Iran's uranium refinery which, in end result, was likely one component of bringing them to the table for a deal.

ElvisL1ves 09-10-2019 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless (Post 21851686)
Trump probably thought he had hired Michael Bolton, and it took him this long to figure out who the guy with the walrus mustache was that kept showing up.

Let him change his name. He's the one who sucks.

DinoR 09-10-2019 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Rat (Post 21852005)
I'll also note the (probable) Obama era effort to destroy Iran's uranium refinery

In a darkly humorous correction, Bolton had a senior government job when that operation looks like it began.

He was UN Ambassador in 2006. That's when the overall operation started under Bush. That's not in a position where Bolton would be expected to have input but its an interesting example of continuity between administrations. That type of continuity often gets ignored in our highly partisan times. Bush started it. Obama accelerated it and approved some of the biggest attacks. The Israelis were likely key partners throughout. [Cite]

Knowed Out 09-10-2019 02:33 PM

I just wish Trump's cronies weren't so meekly quiet when they get shitcanned. I don't mean Cohen and Scaramucci -- they already had credibility issues, so their outbursts just look like more attempts to stay relevant. I'm talking about the semi-respectable ones like John F. Kelly. They do their best to not show cracks in the GOP armor, even when Trump sasses them on their way out. They could go on the lecture circuit and explain how much of an idiot Trump is and get paid big bucks for it, but they decide to show integrity instead.

Trump would never acknowledge or show gratitude for integrity. He sees it as weakness.

wolfpup 09-10-2019 02:49 PM

As a CNN op-ed once put it, sooner or later Trump turns on everybody that is not immediate family. It's actually nice to see since most of his appointees are assholes, and Bolton was a prime example. He's a modern-day Dr. Strangelove. If Bolton had his way we'd already be in the middle of nuclear Armageddon.

Czarcasm 09-10-2019 03:12 PM

My guess was that he wanted to divert attention from his weathermap fiasco and his "landing a military plane at an obscure airport so that it doesn't close and hurt his resort" fiasco.

The Stainless Steel Rat 09-10-2019 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Rat (Post 21851760)
Yes, I strongly opposed Bolton's efforts to block Venezuela from being taking over by a dictator, protect democracy in Hong Kong, and treat the Taliban like partial instigators of 9/11.

Good riddance!

Sage Rat, while I concur with those points, can you find examples in the last several administrations where those were no longer US policy points? Because I don't think so.

That a man can continue some policies while having other stances that damage US credibility and status (and I wouldn't mind some evidence (yes, even in the Pit) in the world is a given. Bolton just was worse (IMHO) than others.

Press on.

Sage Rat 09-10-2019 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Stainless Steel Rat (Post 21852226)
Sage Rat, while I concur with those points, can you find examples in the last several administrations where those were no longer US policy points? Because I don't think so.

I'll grant that it's simply my read of the situation but I would say that it's reasonable to assume that Trump's positions on things are transactional.

I do agree that the RNC, the deep state (e.g. the State Department, CIA, etc.) hold pro-Democracy / anti-tyranny stances. John Bolton, while more aggressive on those points than others, is not strange among them.

But, eventually, Trump will find someone his own speed. So whether or not Bolton is the best advocate for legalism and democracy that we could ever hope for, if the President's next option for the role is Stephen Miller, I'm pretty hard on Team Bolton.

I'd prefer Mattis or someone, but I'll take what I can get.

If you want cites that Trump's thinking is transactional, I feel safe in saying that it can provided, but that I'd want to know if you really question the idea, first.

Euphonious Polemic 09-10-2019 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Rat (Post 21852248)

But, eventually, Trump will find someone his own speed.


Ainsley Earhardt, National Security Advisor. You heard it here first.

The Tooth 09-10-2019 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KneadToKnow (Post 21851737)
A co-worker just walked in and announced, "Trump finally did something right!"

I guessed "shot himself in the head," but that wasn't it.

You're being too kind. Should Trump shoot himself in the head it will happen in the course of his trying to shoot someone else and missing very, very badly. He won't deserve credit for doing something right.

CairoCarol 09-10-2019 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aurora maire (Post 21851973)
And now comes the "disavowal" tweets.

"Totally ill prepared and ill equipped John Bolton (I didn't really know him) made up a story that he resigned. He is a liar and a terrible negotiator and I fired him like a dog. Sad!"

Hey, if you're going to post stuff like that, you have to make it clearer that you were sarcastically inventing a Trump tweet. Because I kind of believed that tweet was real and had to check to verify that it wasn't.

Sage Rat 09-10-2019 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 21852435)
Ainsley Earhardt, National Security Advisor. You heard it here first.

https://images.app.goo.gl/YapkWXKEC1EBWjYh8

Personality stands in well for many other attributes that a person might need in any career.

Euphonious Polemic 09-10-2019 06:54 PM

I am thinking that Bolton was fired for scuttling Trump's proposed talks with his new best friends the Taliban at Camp David, to take place on the anniversary of 9/11. This may have been a bridge too far for Bolton.

Although I admit it would have been absolutely fascinating to hear the Trumpistas try to say what a great thing it was for Trump to wine and dine Taliban leaders, and have a toast and a laugh right on the 9/11 anniversary.

jshore 09-10-2019 07:05 PM

I'm having a hard time deciding whom to believe in regards to the circumstances of this resignation (i.e., was he asked to resign or was it his decision). I mean, what do you do when you have two people of zero credibility disagreeing on how it went down?!?

D_Odds 09-10-2019 07:08 PM

While I may despise Bolton, I'll take his word over Trumpster Fire any day. Hell, I'd believe O.J.'s version of events before I'd believe anything Trump says.

Monty 09-10-2019 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jshore (Post 21852706)
I'm having a hard time deciding whom to believe in regards to the circumstances of this resignation (i.e., was he asked to resign or was it his decision). I mean, what do you do when you have two people of zero credibility disagreeing on how it went down?!?


They can decide this way.

MacCat 09-10-2019 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless (Post 21851686)
Trump probably thought he had hired Michael Bolton, and it took him this long to figure out who the guy with the walrus mustache was that kept showing up.

Not from central casting

Trump's dislike for Bolton's mustache is well known

Quote:

Aides told The Washington Post in 2016 that Bolton's facial hair was one of several reasons Trump didn't pick him as his secretary of State. And The New York Times's Maggie Haberman reported Thursday that Trump spent a significant amount of time deriding Bolton for the mustache.
Even his recent pruning to more Hitlerian proportions failed...

poweroftheglory 09-10-2019 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Rat (Post 21852248)
I'll grant that it's simply my read of the situation but I would say that it's reasonable to assume that Trump's positions on things are transactional.

I do agree that the RNC, the deep state (e.g. the State Department, CIA, etc.) hold pro-Democracy / anti-tyranny stances. John Bolton, while more aggressive on those points than others, is not strange among them.

But, eventually, Trump will find someone his own speed. So whether or not Bolton is the best advocate for legalism and democracy that we could ever hope for, if the President's next option for the role is Stephen Miller, I'm pretty hard on Team Bolton.

I'd prefer Mattis or someone, but I'll take what I can get.

If you want cites that Trump's thinking is transactional, I feel safe in saying that it can provided, but that I'd want to know if you really question the idea, first.

When has this ever been the case or am I being gaslight here? This country has a nasty history of supporting/instigating coups that overthrew democratically elected governments.

Sage Rat 09-10-2019 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poweroftheglory (Post 21852871)
When has this ever been the case or am I being gaslight here? This country has a nasty history of supporting/instigating coups that overthrew democratically elected governments.

I won't say that everything we've ever done was properly benign in intent. Some things may well have simply been, "The spice must flow." (Or, in the case of Bush II and Iraq, "I gunna do what my daddy was too smart to do that they all voted him out of office for!")

But, I do imagine that some amount of thought during the Cold War was that Communism was a greater evil than Democracy was a good.

dropzone 09-10-2019 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK84 (Post 21851705)
When you lay dying on Afghanistans plains.... Bolton wanted to remian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21851731)

As I recall, I was the first person here to quote that poem regarding America's adventure in Afghanistan. Another peril of a Liberal Arts education.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobot (Post 21851636)
Very funny video clip (toward the top for now) in a response there, of Trump calling him "Mike Bolton".

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21852031)
Let him change his name. He's the one who sucks.

Movies! Is there nothing they can't teach us?

AK84 09-10-2019 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 21852691)
I am thinking that Bolton was fired for scuttling Trump's proposed talks with his new best friends the Taliban at Camp David, to take place on the anniversary of 9/11. This may have been a bridge too far for Bolton.

Although I admit it would have been absolutely fascinating to hear the Trumpistas try to say what a great thing it was for Trump to wine and dine Taliban leaders, and have a toast and a laugh right on the 9/11 anniversary.

You guys really love eternal wars don’t you? Great that “fight for freedom” is occurring. Just as long as other people’s sons are doing the fighting and dying.

GIGObuster 09-10-2019 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK84 (Post 21853016)
You guys really love eternal wars don’t you? Great that “fight for freedom” is occurring. Just as long as other people’s sons are doing the fighting and dying.

Well, 2 things, many did warn you and many Republicans that Trump in power would be chaos. That BTW did include being a dofus and an untrustworthy guy with to do negotiations with.

And second: you forgot who where the ones that were more willing to get us into the wars in the middle east for their own benefit or the profit of their buddies.

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/opinion/14rich.html

Locrian 09-10-2019 10:44 PM

Bolton looks like a carnival barker, Trumpfuck IS a carnival barker, that’s why he was chosen. A guy who looks like a snake oil salesman will always be a Trump hire. So, yes. Joe Arpaio is probably next candidate.

Sage Rat 09-10-2019 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK84 (Post 21853016)
You guys really love eternal wars don’t you?

Firefighters
Doctors
Police
Gardeners
Teachers

aurora maire 09-11-2019 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CairoCarol (Post 21852649)
Hey, if you're going to post stuff like that, you have to make it clearer that you were sarcastically inventing a Trump tweet. Because I kind of believed that tweet was real and had to check to verify that it wasn't.

Heh. That's happened to me so many times when someone was making fun of him. The problem with channeling Trumpspeak is that no matter how over the top you get, there's going to be that lingering doubt. You really can't get any crazier than he is. I'll have to be more careful. :D

Really Not All That Bright 09-11-2019 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jshore (Post 21852706)
I'm having a hard time deciding whom to believe in regards to the circumstances of this resignation (i.e., was he asked to resign or was it his decision). I mean, what do you do when you have two people of zero credibility disagreeing on how it went down?!?

Bolton is a crazy person and an arsehole, but I have no reason to doubt his honesty. Conversely, I have every reason to doubt that anything the Very Stable Genius says is true.

Besides, why would Bolton lie about being fired? Everyone in this administration gets fired. Just say "Trump fired me because he disagreed with my views on X."

Steve MB 09-11-2019 09:33 AM

The plot sickens -- it's possible that the real last straw was the Orange One getting the idea into his empty head that Bolton was the one who leaked the story about him asking if hurricanes could be disrupted by nuking them.

Tatterdemalion 09-11-2019 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright (Post 21853696)
Bolton is a crazy person and an arsehole, but I have no reason to doubt his honesty. Conversely, I have every reason to doubt that anything the Very Stable Genius says is true.

Besides, why would Bolton lie about being fired? Everyone in this administration gets fired. Just say "Trump fired me because he disagreed with my views on X."

It wouldn't surprise if the conversation went something like this:

Bolton, "If you feel that way about it Mr President, you may have my resignation."

Trump, "That's it, you're fired."

In that case, Bolton can say quite truthfully that he resigned, and Trump can think he fired him.

Spiderman 09-11-2019 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 21852691)
I am thinking that Bolton was fired for scuttling Trump's proposed talks with his new best friends the Taliban at Camp David, to take place on the anniversary of 9/11.

I heard this too. When the Hawk is the one fighting for, "You can't host them there then." we are definitely in one of Alice's Wonderland.

*Not that this is new or surprising but there have been multiple stories that stuff is kept from him such that the country in some semblance of normalcy can run while he sends his tweets & makes up weather forecasts. One person saying, "You want to host the Taliban on the week of 9/11?" should have put a quick end to that thought but it sounds like it didn't.


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