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-   -   Democrats not doubling down. What are some examples? (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=892548)

FlikTheBlue 03-25-2020 11:11 AM

Democrats not doubling down. What are some examples?
 
In the interests of fairness, and since in my other thread I have accused the Republicans of always doubling down even in the presence of evidence that they are wrong, I thought it might be useful to look at the other side. What are some instances where the Democrats were on a particular course or had a particular position and then changed course when evidence came out that they were going in the wrong direction?

Ulfreida 03-25-2020 11:13 AM

Al Franken comes to mind.

BobLibDem 03-25-2020 12:05 PM

Bill Clinton being contrite after his impeachment. Hillary saying her voting for the Iraq war was wrong. Biden regretting how he treated Anita Hill.

Velocity 03-25-2020 12:18 PM

Obama first dismissing ISIS as merely a "jayvee team," but then taking them more seriously and ordering a lot of drone strikes/airstrikes that did major damage to the terrorist group and helped halt and reverse their big 2014 territorial gains.

puddleglum 03-25-2020 12:23 PM

If you mean evidence that the position was wrong never, if you mean evidence that the position became unpopular, all the time.

Sam Stone 03-25-2020 02:33 PM

For a while, a lot of Democrats flipped on gun control. There was a period where even the Dems in this board were admitting that gun control was a losing issue, and subsequently agreeing that certain types of gun control were foolish.

Alas, that moment seems to have passed.

Another period of clarity from Democrats came when they switched to being free traders. I think free trade may be even more accepted on the center left now than it is on the center-right But in the 70's and 80's free trade was a Republican idea, while the left fought for 'fair trade' to protect union workers and campaigned against foreign sweat shops and environmental standards.

Democrats also largely abandoned their support for industrial policy snd nationalization after Carter's deregulating of the airlines and trucking had the opposite effect that left-wing pundits and officials predicted, and after industrial planning in Britain and elsewhere failed. Sadly, Democrats seem to be moving back towards thinking they can plan and efficiently 'manage' the industrial economy. You can thank Bernie and the other hard lefties in congress for that.

FlikTheBlue 03-25-2020 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puddleglum (Post 22210008)
If you mean evidence that the position was wrong never, if you mean evidence that the position became unpopular, all the time.

I mean it in the way a scientist would reject a hypothesis when the evidence shows the hypothesis to be wrong. Obama with ISIS and Clinton with her Iraq war vote as already mentioned are good examples.

Velocity 03-25-2020 05:04 PM

I realize that "Vox" and "Democrats" are not necessarily interchangeable, but Vox generally leans to the left. In January, they claimed that the coronavirus was not going to turn into a "deadly pandemic." Later on, they then retracted it and owned up with an admission that they were wrong earlier.

Whack-a-Mole 03-25-2020 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Stone (Post 22210329)
For a while, a lot of Democrats flipped on gun control. There was a period where even the Dems in this board were admitting that gun control was a losing issue, and subsequently agreeing that certain types of gun control were foolish.

I am no fan of guns but I have given up on pushing for gun control because it is a HUGE single-issue voting item (gun nuts are...well...nuts...positively freakish in their love of guns) and I think the country has other, deeper issues it needs to address. Does that make me a flipper on gun control?

Quote:

Another period of clarity from Democrats came when they switched to being free traders. I think free trade may be even more accepted on the center left now than it is on the center-right But in the 70's and 80's free trade was a Republican idea, while the left fought for 'fair trade' to protect union workers and campaigned against foreign sweat shops and environmental standards.
This is Clintonian Third-Way politics. It is not liberals getting ok with it. It is the democratic party getting co-opted and moving to the right. There is precious little liberalness left in the democratic party these days. They give lip service to lefty notions but they rarely deliver.

Quote:

Democrats also largely abandoned their support for industrial policy snd nationalization after Carter's deregulating of the airlines and trucking had the opposite effect that left-wing pundits and officials predicted, and after industrial planning in Britain and elsewhere failed. Sadly, Democrats seem to be moving back towards thinking they can plan and efficiently 'manage' the industrial economy. You can thank Bernie and the other hard lefties in congress for that.
I am not so sure that deregulating airlines has been a smashing success.

And Bernie does not want to nationalize anything except electric production that I am aware of. And electric utilities are already a weird hybrid of private and government run so hardly a stretch. Yes, you can see him advocate for nationalization of a lot of things in the 70's. Pretty sure he isn't pushing that now.

drad dog 03-26-2020 01:27 PM

The Democratic version of "Doubling down" is that they are left holding the bag for the whole country, both sides of every debate, even though they have an antagonistic party in opposition that are not protecting or enhancing the nation or even the lives of their own voters.

It's really always been up to democrats to protect the environment, the interests of their own voter base, and also the interests of those who vote republican, because the dems know that we are all in the same world.

That's what their fucking doubling down is.

FlikTheBlue 03-26-2020 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drad dog (Post 22212334)
The Democratic version of "Doubling down" is that they are left holding the bag for the whole country, both sides of every debate, even though they have an antagonistic party in opposition that are not protecting or enhancing the nation or even the lives of their own voters.

It's really always been up to democrats to protect the environment, the interests of their own voter base, and also the interests of those who vote republican, because the dems know that we are all in the same world.

That's what their fucking doubling down is.

That's not really doubling down. That's more like a prisoner's dilemma where the Republicans always defect and the Democrats always cooperate.


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