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muldoonthief 05-03-2019 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Sams (Post 21622929)
Re: The Snap....i kinda thought the point was that (In the comics so long ago) was that "With six stones, it will be so easy to destroy half the life in the universe, you could do it with a snap". Not that "You physically HAVE to snap the fingers to make it happen!!"

They made a point in both Infinity War and Endgame that Thanos has to close his hand to use any of the stones on the gauntlet - that's why in the fight on Titan Dr. Strange told the Cloak "Don't let him close his fist", and why he had to take the power stone off the gauntlet to punch Captain Marvel while she was holding the gauntlet. So it makes in-movie sense that another gesture is needed to use all the stones simultaneously.

Dewey Finn 05-03-2019 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewey Finn (Post 21622952)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgyn (Post 21622858)
Well, that's just stupid, then. The critters causing the issue were the ones exploiting the environment. You destroy half the (potential) food supply, you're left with the same issue as before, just ... smaller. (I mean, it was a stupid solution anyway, but this just makes it even more so.)

And that's just stupid. On Earth, it's the humans that upset the balance of nature. Until we showed up, there was no excess of any one species, because everyone had predators or other limitations. It's just the humans who have been consuming species to extinction. And I assume the same thing is true on other planets, where the intelligent, dominant lifeform is messing up the ecosystem. So I can understand why he might want to reduce the number of humans. But not the rest of nature.

And another thing. Space is big. Really big. While the space occupied by humans and the other intelligent species is tiny. So why was his solution to eliminate half the life when he could have found existing livable planets that some of them could move to? Heck, with the power of the stones, he could terraform dead planets to make them livable. (Go back a million years or so, seed a planet with some plant life and wait for the oxygen atmosphere to develop.)

Jophiel 05-03-2019 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewey Finn (Post 21622984)
So why was his solution to eliminate half the life when he could have found existing livable planets that some of them could move to? Heck, with the power of the stones, he could terraform dead planets to make them livable. (Go back a million years or so, seed a planet with some plant life and wait for the oxygen atmosphere to develop.)

Once upon a time, Thanos' home planet was going belly up. Thanos said "We should totally kill half the population" and everyone said "God damn, that's some fucked up stupid idea-making, Thanos". Then everyone (less Thanos) died.

So now Thanos just wants to prove that his idea was right. He doesn't want any other ideas because those aren't the idea that everyone told him was stupid and wrong. He wants to prove how he was right and everyone else was wrong and now everyone should be telling him what a great thinker he was and willing to do the hard thing for the greater good.

Ironically, when his plan doesn't work out, he's convinced that it's only because everyone is hung up on 50% of life being killed. Meanwhile, he's still hung up on no one liking his dumbshit idea from once upon a time.

Morgyn 05-03-2019 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Sams (Post 21622929)
Re: The Snap....i kinda thought the point was that (In the comics so long ago) was that "With six stones, it will be so easy to destroy half the life in the universe, you could do it with a snap". Not that "You physically HAVE to snap the fingers to make it happen!!"

YES! That was what I was asking! But Thanos went for the snap, and the Hulk went for the snap, and Iron Man went for the snap, and everyone was fighting, not just to get the gauntlet OFF of Thanos, but to stop him from snapping his fingers. WHY DO YOU HAVE TO SNAP to set things off?

(ETA: Right. Or close his fist. With the Mind Stone, why would you need to do anything but think at the damn things?)

Larry Borgia 05-03-2019 01:31 PM

Thanos's plan will never make sense. Don't even try to make sense of it. There's no point in asking "Why didn't he...?" or "But wouldn't..."

The problem is that in the comics, he does it to impress the living embodiment of death, who happens to be female and who he is in love with. That wouldn't have worked in the movies, so they came up with the motivation you saw. Maybe they could have come up with a better one, but I can't think of any. (Note: they hinted at the original motivation in the mid credits scene in the 2012 Avengers movie)

If you must have an explanation, let's just say that Thanos was a psychopath who wanted to play God, and was granted the ability to do that beyond any psychopath's dream. He was just giving himself an excuse with the resources thing.

Miller 05-03-2019 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Borgia (Post 21623042)
The problem is that in the comics, he does it to impress the living embodiment of death, who happens to be female and who he is in love with. That wouldn't have worked in the movies, so they came up with the motivation you saw. Maybe they could have come up with a better one, but I can't think of any. (Note: they hinted at the original motivation in the mid credits scene in the 2012 Avengers movie)

Except that, in the comics, Death wants half the universe killed for pretty much exactly the same reason Thanos does in the movies. It's not something Thanos settles on like he's John Hinckley and Death is Jodie Foster - Death resurrects Thanos and sets him with the task of killing half the universe before the universe runs out of resources.

Larry Borgia 05-03-2019 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller (Post 21623110)
Except that, in the comics, Death wants half the universe killed for pretty much exactly the same reason Thanos does in the movies. It's not something Thanos settles on like he's John Hinckley and Death is Jodie Foster - Death resurrects Thanos and sets him with the task of killing half the universe before the universe runs out of resources.

It's been decades since I read the comics, but I thought Death's motivation was that she was annoyed that the living outnumbered the dead in the universe, and wanted to correct that. I don't recall the Malthusian thing being a part of it. I do recall that Thanos had a thing for Death that went beyond being a loyal servant. I remember when the heroes attacked Mephisto convinced Thanos that he'd impress Death more if he gave the heroes a small chance of victory. But like I said, it's been decades.

Dale Sams 05-03-2019 02:16 PM

Also kudos to Scarlet Witch for making the most out of a power set that is basically just flight, telekinesis and pew pew. And i think the 'pew pew' is just more telekinesis. AND she cant particularly fly and go pew pew at the same time. So basically she's just got telekinesis but is very imaginative with it. Kinda like how Sue Storm reallllly makes the most out of her power set.

Miller 05-03-2019 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Borgia (Post 21623125)
It's been decades since I read the comics, but I thought Death's motivation was that she was annoyed that the living outnumbered the dead in the universe, and wanted to correct that. I don't recall the Malthusian thing being a part of it. I do recall that Thanos had a thing for Death that went beyond being a loyal servant. I remember when the heroes attacked Mephisto convinced Thanos that he'd impress Death more if he gave the heroes a small chance of victory. But like I said, it's been decades.

Thanos is infatuated by Death. Before the start of Infinity Gauntlet, he's been dead for a while. Death picks him from the afterlife to carry out her plan to halve the population of the universe, but doesn't have any specific idea how he should do it. He settles on becoming omnipotent by gathering the Infinity Stones, and then uses that power to A) Kill half the universe, B) mess up the heroes who respond real, real bad, and C) creep on Death in a really uncomfortable way. Death is very much not down with C, but Thanos being omnipotent means there's not much she can do about it except standard there in contemptuous silence while Thanos rages that she has to love him now after everything he's done for her.

Before he gets to all that, though, he spends an issue of Silver Surfer cruising around the cosmos, explaining to him just what he plans to do, and why - and it's basically exactly what his motivation is in the movie. Here's a Gizmodo article with the relevant pages.

ETA: You remember the bit about Mephisto giving Thanos bad advice correctly, though.

SlackerInc 05-03-2019 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewey Finn (Post 21622952)
And that's just stupid. On Earth, it's the humans that upset the balance of nature. Until we showed up, there was no excess of any one species, because everyone had predators or other limitations. It's just the humans who have been consuming species to extinction. And I assume the same thing is true on other planets, where the intelligent, dominant lifeform is messing up the ecosystem. So I can understand why he might want to reduce the number of humans. But not the rest of nature.


I don't agree with this very commonly believed narrative. Either all animals (including humans) live "in balance with nature", or there are other animals that do not. Elephants, for instance, knock down trees just for the hell of it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgyn (Post 21623019)
YES! That was what I was asking! But Thanos went for the snap, and the Hulk went for the snap, and Iron Man went for the snap, and everyone was fighting, not just to get the gauntlet OFF of Thanos, but to stop him from snapping his fingers. WHY DO YOU HAVE TO SNAP to set things off?

(ETA: Right. Or close his fist. With the Mind Stone, why would you need to do anything but think at the damn things?)


I agree, but what are you gonna do.

Dewey Finn 05-04-2019 06:37 PM

Yes, you are correct that humans are part of the ecosystem and therefore part of the balance of nature. And yes, elephants might push down trees for no good reason but they don't clearcut entire forests. I think it's clear that humans have an outsize influence on nature. That's especially true with seven billion of us consuming resources. But it's been true for a long time. I believe before Europeans arrived in the Americas, many of the large predators were hunted to extinction by people.

simster 05-04-2019 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlackerInc (Post 21623549)
I don't agree with this very commonly believed narrative. Either all animals (including humans) live "in balance with nature", or there are other animals that do not. Elephants, for instance, knock down trees just for the hell of it.





I agree, but what are you gonna do.

They showed that different actions of the individual stones could be accessed. Power, space and time all had distinct 'movements' associated with them.

Seems the 'snap' was needed to activate them all in concert - and I doubt the 'mind stone' had anything to do with telepathy with THanos - seemed more of an intelligence /AI to control what the other stones did and how much.

Steve McQwark 05-05-2019 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimstu (Post 21622739)
AIUI it's not that there were necessarily more whales five years post-snap, it's that a pod of whales was spotted in a formerly very unlikely place (New York harbor IIRC?). That is, the existing whales can now inhabit/visit more of their former habitat without running catastrophically afoul of human activity.

So the massive reduction in human population did at least have the side benefit of making more of the world habitable for non-human life, which is not an implausible premise.

In memory of Black Widow, I have thrown a peanut butter sandwich at your post on my screen.

Saw the movie yesterday and really enjoyed it. I had assumed going in that the six from the first movie would die, so when Tony died it didn't phase me. Except when Pepper told him he could rest now; I did shed a tear at that. My favorite line in the movie was when Tony called Rocket Rachet. Nice shoutout to my favorite video game series.

DigitalC 05-05-2019 12:32 PM

I feel bad for all the unsnapped people who came back to find their loved ones committed suicide. I imagine the suicide rate over the five years had to be significantly higher than normal.

Morgyn 05-05-2019 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simster (Post 21625045)
They showed that different actions of the individual stones could be accessed. Power, space and time all had distinct 'movements' associated with them.

Seems the 'snap' was needed to activate them all in concert - and I doubt the 'mind stone' had anything to do with telepathy with THanos - seemed more of an intelligence /AI to control what the other stones did and how much.

I believe you, and if so the snap becomes more excusable. Unfortunately for me, I missed anything that implied that certain physical actions were required to use a particular stone. Still leaves me wondering how, given that this was probably (?) the first time the 6 had been physically colocated since just after the Big Bang, who worked out that a snap was needed, and how? :confused:

digs 05-05-2019 02:42 PM

Don't worry about figuring why you need to "snap". Magical objects have always had rules tied to them. And even more specific actions needed to activate them. This has been "true" from early superstitions to medieval incantations. Modern wiccan and druid objects need specific rituals to be used in magic. Even in comics: Don Blake banging his walking stick on the ground turned him into Thor. He had to go to great lengths at times to make sure it hit the floor. Why couldn't Dr. Don just wave it around like a flag? Because those are the rules.

Dewey Finn 05-05-2019 02:47 PM

Something I wonder about the "snap" and the gauntlet, what if the user doesn't have a human-like hand? What if Groot, for one, tried to use it? It seems speciesist to assume that.

Larry Borgia 05-05-2019 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewey Finn (Post 21625869)
Something I wonder about the "snap" and the gauntlet, what if the user doesn't have a human-like hand? What if Groot, for one, tried to use it? It seems speciesist to assume that.

The gauntlet was made by the dwarves on Nidavellir specifically for Thanos. Had a creature with, say, tentacles asked for one, I'm sure they could have accommodated it.

Just Asking Questions 05-05-2019 02:56 PM

My real complaint about the movie is that they set up rules for their time travel, and then immediately ignored them.

When they proposed the time heist, I pictured it like, go to where a stone is alone at two in the morning, take it, jump to the future, use it, jump back to 2:01, put stone back. The time line wouldn't be affected.

But you can't punch your way out of that, so instead we get an hour of fan service fights.

The Ancient One says "you can't take the stone, you'll branch the timeline". Banner convinces her he needs to take it, and...he branches the time line. Why even bother with rules?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller (Post 21619587)
Someone made simple, easy to follow* diagram explaining how the time travel works in this movie.


*I'm lying about it being simple or easy to follow. But it looks accurate.

Well, if it is accurate, none of the stones return to the main timeline. So Thanos can't get them and snapple everyone in the main timeline.

Of course, they handwaved away the details. How does Steve get the stone back in the tesseract, inside the scepter, inside the sphere thingy in the force field, and does he just toss the one to red skull with thanks?

Larry Borgia 05-05-2019 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions (Post 21625881)
My real complaint about the movie is that they set up rules for their time travel, and then immediately ignored them.

When they proposed the time heist, I pictured it like, go to where a stone is alone at two in the morning, take it, jump to the future, use it, jump back to 2:01, put stone back. The time line wouldn't be affected.

But you can't punch your way out of that, so instead we get an hour of fan service fights.

The Ancient One says "you can't take the stone, you'll branch the timeline". Banner convinces her he needs to take it, and...he branches the time line. Why even bother with rules?



Well, if it is accurate, none of the stones return to the main timeline. So Thanos can't get them and snapple everyone in the main timeline.

Of course, they handwaved away the details. How does Steve get the stone back in the tesseract, inside the scepter, inside the sphere thingy in the force field, and does he just toss the one to red skull with thanks?

One thing that still bugs me is how they are able to jump between timelines. But I guess if time travel works at all, it can work like that.

And fan service fights are the whole point of these movies.

For your last sentence, I think that would make a great animated flick.

Alessan 05-05-2019 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Borgia (Post 21625929)
One thing that still bugs me is how they are able to jump between timelines. But I guess if time travel works at all, it can work like that.

I think the idea is that it's not really time travel - it's quantum travel, or moving between different possible realities, some of which happen to be in the past (time, after all, is just another dimension). Nonsense, of course, but coherent nonsense.

Just Asking Questions 05-05-2019 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alessan (Post 21625942)
I think the idea is that it's not really time travel - it's quantum travel, or moving between different possible realities, some of which happen to be in the past (time, after all, is just another dimension). Nonsense, of course, but coherent nonsense.

If they were going for that, then I'd submit they failed.

If everything is just quantum probabilities, then branching timelines isn't a thing. there's only one at a time. Or, more likely, only one ever.

The universe has only one "reality". If you travel in time and alter reality, then the new one is just as real, and now is the "only" one. There are no "parallel" universes, just different quantum realities. All of them equally "true".

Alessan 05-05-2019 04:44 PM

Yeah, well, to you maybe it failed. I myself have not been cursed with knowledge, and to me it worked just fine.

Just Asking Questions 05-05-2019 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alessan (Post 21626038)
Yeah, well, to you maybe it failed. I myself have not been cursed with knowledge, and to me it worked just fine.

That's me - Just Ask Quassandra.:)

One thing I thought of just now - if Captain Marvel can carry a spaceship "1000 light years" on just her skills, why can't she pick up Thanos and drop him into a star?

Dale Sams 05-05-2019 06:10 PM

Thoughts: There's gonna be planets where the Snap was seriously a boon...and now they find all those people back?? Lots of planets probably on the brink of war and annihilation get back all those people??

Shit I just realized that Doc Strange no longer has the time stone!! Are they going to find him a proper Eye of Agametto now??

Was Mordo dusted? I hope not cause maybe he had five years to think that his quest was petty and thus we can avoid that crappy storyline for the sequel.

Little Nemo 05-05-2019 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Sams (Post 21626183)
Was Mordo dusted? I hope not cause maybe he had five years to think that his quest was petty and thus we can avoid that crappy storyline for the sequel.

More likely he would equate the Infinity Stones with magic and think that this proved his belief about how dangerous unrestrained magic can be.

Little Nemo 05-05-2019 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions (Post 21625881)
The Ancient One says "you can't take the stone, you'll branch the timeline". Banner convinces her he needs to take it, and...he branches the time line. Why even bother with rules?

I think they were saying there was some flexibility in the timeline. You could do something like borrow an Infinity Stone for a short while as long as you returned it. A few minutes wouldn't be significant.

But if you removed an Infinity Stone from a timeline so it wasn't there when it was needed - like for example during Strange's fight with Dormammu - then its absence would change history and create a new timeline.

Dale Sams 05-05-2019 06:33 PM

As far as i can tell there were seven new universes created/ seven alternate dimensions visited. Six stones (One with a hammer also taken) and the timeline Clint created when he took a glove. So....yes...If i go back in time and leave a penny on top of a mountain, that penny wont be there when i get back. It will just be there in that other dimension.

Yes...Cap probably just dropped the mind stone off at Hydra HQ on a desk (no scepter....and if he gives it to the Avengers then no Scarlet Witch or Quicksilver and probably no Vision) and yes he probably just dropped the space stone back at the 70's HQ instead of a tesseract.

Now as for the Peggy timeline...Im gonna believe its like when Spock went back in time in Star Trek (2009)...you cant live in a timeline like that and utterly ignore what is to come. I have to believe Spock debriefed Starfleet and i have to believe Steve did the best he could to at least rescue Bucky.


NOWWWW...Im trying to figure out which of those timelines Thanos came forward in time from, and if theres anyway all those timelines can be one timeline instead of 6 or 7. Cause if i can wrap my head around them all being one. Then Steve doesn't have to prevent Thanos cause Thanos dies when he goes forward in time/dimension hops.

Jophiel 05-05-2019 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions (Post 21626156)
One thing I thought of just now - if Captain Marvel can carry a spaceship "1000 light years" on just her skills, why can't she pick up Thanos and drop him into a star?

Captain Marvel in EG is basically Superman which means the same illogical stuff because you have someone who can essentially do anything but, for whatever reason, doesn't. I liked the CM movie well enough (likely because she wasn't all super-duper yet) but in EG she was just a deus ex machina to drop in a few times rather than an actual character.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo (Post 21626197)
I think they were saying there was some flexibility in the timeline. You could do something like borrow an Infinity Stone for a short while as long as you returned it. A few minutes wouldn't be significant.

But if you removed an Infinity Stone from a timeline so it wasn't there when it was needed - like for example during Strange's fight with Dormammu - then its absence would change history and create a new timeline.

That's how I saw it. Removing the stones for a short time was perhaps like eroding the banks of a river a little bit. It happened but it's not significant. Removing one for good (or past a significant event) is like a whole new branch forming.

DigitalC 05-05-2019 06:58 PM

The way I saw it was that any change that does not affect anything does not created a new timeline. That's the whole point of putting the stones back in the same spot.

Dale Sams 05-05-2019 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalC (Post 21626269)
The way I saw it was that any change that does not affect anything does not created a new timeline. That's the whole point of putting the stones back in the same spot.

You cant change the past. Period. Just by taking the stones for a split second you've changed the past. Cap fighting cap changes it. Hulk smashing an extra car changes it.

I thought about it and Thanos comes forward from the "knock Quill out" timeline. So Cap can put the power stone in Quills pocket...and the guy from Captain Marvel can find him and they can disintegrate themselves trying to pick it up.

That timeline is gonna be a mess unless Cap puts the power stone in a rock and shoves it and Quill into Quills ship and takes off in it.

Just Asking Questions 05-05-2019 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalC (Post 21626269)
The way I saw it was that any change that does not affect anything does not created a new timeline. That's the whole point of putting the stones back in the same spot.

But as I understood the movie, not one could be put back in the same spot (well, maybe the Soul Stone. No one but Red Skull is there to notice.).

The time diagram linked above isn't canon, but none of the stones are shown being returned to the main timeline.

Quercus alba 05-05-2019 11:13 PM

I did notice that Cap was less careful about his "language" these days.

typoink 05-06-2019 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Borgia (Post 21625872)
The gauntlet was made by the dwarves on Nidavellir specifically for Thanos. Had a creature with, say, tentacles asked for one, I'm sure they could have accommodated it.

Yeah, the MCU Gauntlet isn't just a glove the stones happen to fit in, it's a glove that's been made to harness and control the stones. Presumably the "snap" isn't JUST flashy, it's actually the control mechanism that Thanos chose. The Gauntlet ISN'T like a lot of magical artifacts in fiction where you completely gain its power just by wearing it -- we see that having that power enter you is painful and costly. You have to activate it.

When Tony & Co reverse-engineered the guantlet, they probably chose the same movement as a way to keep things as predictable/similar as possible.

borschevsky 05-06-2019 11:46 AM

Some mentions in the new Spider-Man trailer seem to indicate that we may get some more details on the timeline stuff.

Czarcasm 05-06-2019 12:01 PM

How many died when Tony snapped his fingers? Was it just the bad guys on the battlefield, or was it whole races of bad guys?

JohnT 05-06-2019 12:01 PM

I'm still wondering how all the living got rid of the 2-6 pounds of dead bacteria in their immediate post-snap bodies. The smell of everyone's BM's must have been incredible.

sachertorte 05-06-2019 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by typoink (Post 21627402)
When Tony & Co reverse-engineered the guantlet, they probably chose the same movement as a way to keep things as predictable/similar as possible.

I thought it would have been funny if they chose something else, like the middle finger. Then when Thanos gets it, he tries to snap, but it doesn't work.

Little Nemo 05-06-2019 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quercus alba (Post 21626645)
I did notice that Cap was less careful about his "language" these days.

I think that was intentional. It was a sign of how demoralized he had become.

Yllaria 05-06-2019 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnT (Post 21627541)
I'm still wondering how all the living got rid of the 2-6 pounds of dead bacteria in their immediate post-snap bodies. The smell of everyone's BM's must have been incredible.

I'm guessing they dusted, leaving no bacteria bodies behind, just like everything else. But I like the way you follow consequences. Now I'm wondering if half of all viruses disappeared or if viruses didn't count as life. Because comparing pre and post virus loads could have been done.

I'm also wondering how many people, who would otherwise have died, ended up getting better after halving their bacterial load gave their immune systems a fighting chance.

Czarcasm 05-06-2019 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yllaria (Post 21627641)
I'm guessing they dusted, leaving no bacteria bodies behind, just like everything else. But I like the way you follow consequences. Now I'm wondering if half of all viruses disappeared or if viruses didn't count as life. Because comparing pre and post virus loads could have been done.

I'm also wondering how many people, who would otherwise have died, ended up getting better after halving their bacterial load gave their immune systems a fighting chance.

It wasn't half of all families, superhero groups, species, populations of galaxies etc.-It was randomly half of all life, period. I'm thinking there were a number of planets that were weren't touched at all, some that were totally decimated, and maybe one or two where all the politicians were disappeared.

Miller 05-06-2019 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions (Post 21625881)
Well, if it is accurate, none of the stones return to the main timeline. So Thanos can't get them and snapple everyone in the main timeline.

Thanos has already snapped everyone (well, half of everyone) in the main timeline. That can't ever be undone. They know that before they even start time travelling - that's why they try to get the stones and bring them into the future, instead of going back and smothering baby Thanos in his crib. Time travel can't change your present, it can only split off a new timeline.

What changed from talking to the Ancient One was the realization that they can't just steal these stones and doom billions of lives in the alternate timelines to whatever fate might consume them if the stones didn't exist - for the Time Stone in particular, losing it means that Dormammu wins in Dr. Strange's solo movie.

The movie implies that small changes will get smoothed out. The Ancient One having a conversation on the roof of the Sanctum Sanctorum with Bruce Banner during the Battle for New York is a minor time alteration that isn't sufficient for the creation of an entirely new timeline. Which isn't my favorite thing about how time travel works for these movies - does the Ancient One we see in Doctor Strange remember talking to Bruce Banner or not? I'd rather they were just explicit - "Yeah, you just created a bunch of new timelines. Can you please try to avoid making them apocalyptic hellholes if at all possible?" Steve's trip would then not be about "pruning branches," it'd just be about making sure the heroes in those timelines have the tools they need to save their worlds.

Quote:

Of course, they handwaved away the details. How does Steve get the stone back in the tesseract, inside the scepter, inside the sphere thingy in the force field, and does he just toss the one to red skull with thanks?
"How Steve Gets the Stones Back" could be it's own entire movie. I'm okay, for the purposes of this film, to say, "He figured it out somehow," and leave it at that. Maybe they can do a comic book about it some time.

borschevsky 05-06-2019 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller (Post 21627666)
The movie implies that small changes will get smoothed out. The Ancient One having a conversation on the roof of the Sanctum Sanctorum with Bruce Banner during the Battle for New York is a minor time alteration that isn't sufficient for the creation of an entirely new timeline. Which isn't my favorite thing about how time travel works for these movies - does the Ancient One we see in Doctor Strange remember talking to Bruce Banner or not? I'd rather they were just explicit - "Yeah, you just created a bunch of new timelines. Can you please try to avoid making them apocalyptic hellholes if at all possible?" Steve's trip would then not be about "pruning branches," it'd just be about making sure the heroes in those timelines have the tools they need to save their worlds.

This is the way I understood the time travel rules to work as well, but there seems to be a lot of disagreement about it, so maybe I'm wrong. I could make an analogy to the idea of a fixed point or stable orbit. After a small change the system evolves back towards its original state and a new timeline is unnecessary, but a large enough change causes a break into a new timeline.

This seems to be the only way the plot makes any sense. There must be multiple timelines, because Nebula kills her younger self, and Thanos dies twice. But if every single change causes a new timeline, then Steve putting the stones back doesn't solve anything, he's just creating a new new timeline where the stone is back, and the first new timeline still has the stone missing.

I'm not sure whether I like this idea for time travel, but it's a great storytelling trick. You get to tell both types of time travel stories, if you want to. You can have your multiverse stuff, but also do the jigsaw-puzzle style. Maybe old Steve has been living in another timeline and came back, or maybe he's been living in the main timeline but his being there is a "small enough" change.

Larry Borgia 05-06-2019 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czarcasm (Post 21627662)
It wasn't half of all families, superhero groups, species, populations of galaxies etc.-It was randomly half of all life, period. I'm thinking there were a number of planets that were weren't touched at all, some that were totally decimated, and maybe one or two where all the politicians were disappeared.

The law of large numbers prevents this. Sure it could happen but it would be like flipping a fair coin seven billion times and having it come up heads twice.

Quercus alba 05-06-2019 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnT (Post 21627541)
I'm still wondering how all the living got rid of the 2-6 pounds of dead bacteria in their immediate post-snap bodies. The smell of everyone's BM's must have been incredible.

Poop normally contains dead as well as live bacteria, so it was probably not particularly notable, particularly given that they were attending to more salient issues like "what happened to my wife and kids?"

Quercus alba 05-06-2019 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebb (Post 21621563)
"You have returned the Soul Stone to its proper location. You may now retrieve any one of the entities from the bottom shelf. We have a green woman, an assassin with red hair, several puppies, at least a dozen children... Well, you can see for yourself. Just hurry up; I can't do this all day."

So Cap returns the Soul Stone, and gets a loved one of his choice in exchange--hence the return to Peggy.
It all makes sense!

Larry Borgia 05-06-2019 02:25 PM

People keep saying that the snap wiped out half of all life, not just sapient species, and I know the movie states it, but it clearly didn't. The end of Infinity War took place in a forest. Lots and lots of trees and plant life. Not a single plant got dusted.

Jophiel 05-06-2019 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czarcasm (Post 21627662)
It wasn't half of all families, superhero groups, species, populations of galaxies etc.-It was randomly half of all life, period. I'm thinking there were a number of planets that were weren't touched at all, some that were totally decimated, and maybe one or two where all the politicians were disappeared.

I sort of doubt that. Leaving entire planets untouched would go completely counter to what Thanos was doing. On the other hand, we saw Thanos deliberately culling specific populations by 50%. Why would you just go "random half of everything as a whole" rather than "random half of each species"?

JohnT 05-06-2019 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quercus alba (Post 21627810)
Poop normally contains dead as well as live bacteria, so it was probably not particularly notable, particularly given that they were attending to more salient issues like "what happened to my wife and kids?"

Well, yeah, but four pounds of dead bacteria? Gotta leave your body somehow. I can see the threads now.... "OMG, in addition to losing half my family I JUST CAN'T GET OFF THE TOILET! Anybody else having this problem?"

Czarcasm 05-06-2019 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jophiel (Post 21627867)
I sort of doubt that. Leaving entire planets untouched would go completely counter to what Thanos was doing. On the other hand, we saw Thanos deliberately culling specific populations by 50%. Why would you just go "random half of everything as a whole" rather than "random half of each species"?

Because the description was "half of all life".


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