Straight Dope Message Board

Straight Dope Message Board (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/index.php)
-   The BBQ Pit (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=813085)

SteveG1 12-08-2016 10:50 PM

Just wait until he really gets rolling. Should be a real shit fest.

Colibri 12-08-2016 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveG1 (Post 19840172)
Isn't that a first???

He could be the first president without a honeymoon period.

Colibri 12-08-2016 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveG1 (Post 19840172)
Isn't that a first???

Since Truman, no president has had a negative approval rating upon taking office. (Scroll down for graphs.)

John Mace 12-08-2016 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colibri (Post 19840226)
He could be the first president without a honeymoon period.

He's definitely will be the first president who has been on three honeymoons.

eulalia 12-09-2016 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train (Post 19838799)
No, Nugent is going to be director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, shortly to be renamed to the "Department of Homeland Hammerdown and Hunting".

Stranger

I just wish he'd put Tommy Chong in charge of the DEA.

ThelmaLou 12-09-2016 02:56 PM

"Trump to name Goldman Sachs veteran, Gary Cohn, to head National Economic Council"

This is the same Hypocrite-Elect who was all over Hillary for supposedly having Wall Street in her back pocket. :dubious:

Czarcasm 12-09-2016 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colibri (Post 19840232)

He decided to burn through his "honeymoon period" before he even took office. His ego just cannot allow him to give it a rest.

Euphonious Polemic 12-09-2016 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou (Post 19841737)
"Trump to name Goldman Sachs veteran, Gary Cohn, to head National Economic Council"

This is the same Hypocrite-Elect who was all over Hillary for supposedly having Wall Street in her back pocket. :dubious:

Nope, that never happened, and if you talk about it anymore, Trump is going to tweet about you personally, and then you'll have to deal with the anonymous death threats from his lunatic supporters.

That's how things work now.

Little Nemo 12-09-2016 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colibri (Post 19840226)
He could be the first president without a honeymoon period.

He's just going to settle down to fucking us on a regular basis.

ThelmaLou 12-09-2016 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 19841860)
Nope, that never happened, and if you talk about it anymore, Trump is going to tweet about you personally, and then you'll have to deal with the anonymous death threats from his lunatic supporters.

That's how things work now.

Makes me wonder if Trump will have his minions scouring message boards like this one to find out who is saying tacky things about him. If that happens, I'm screwed! Mayberry will be too hot to hold me! :eek:

SteveG1 12-09-2016 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 19841860)
Nope, that never happened, and if you talk about it anymore, Trump is going to tweet about you personally, and then you'll have to deal with the anonymous death threats from his lunatic supporters.

That's how things work now.

A long long time ago, I got some threats. I gave the moron clear directions on how to get to my place, and what time I would be "available". Decades later, I'm still waiting.

ThelmaLou 12-09-2016 06:04 PM

Donald Trump's mobster mentality

Quote:

Before running for president, Donald Trump was what we might consider a mid-to-high-level grifter. Despite his bogus claims about being the largest developer in New York, his media profile was much larger than his actual influence in the real estate world. As such, he was always looking for ways to scoop up extra cash and avoid liabilities in whatever quantities available — bilk struggling people out of $10,000 here and $20,000 there with phony real estate seminars, sell some steaks at Sharper Image, stiff the contractors who did work for him, get his "foundation" to pay off lawsuits against him, and so on. "My whole life I've been greedy, greedy, greedy," he said. "I've grabbed all the money I could get. I'm so greedy."

But now there's no longer any need for small-time cons. Trump is truly the boss, and just like it is with the mob, everybody has to pay the boss.

...

t's looking like conservatives in Washington will now be expected to hold all their major events at Trump's hotel; the Heritage Foundation held a donor event there last week, and the RNC will be holding its Christmas party there — the same hotel where foreign dignitaries will be expected to stay when they're in the American capital. "Isn't it rude to come to his city and say, 'I am staying at your competitor?'" one Asian diplomat told The Washington Post. You bet it is, and you bet he'll notice. Meanwhile, the Secret Service may be renting out space in Trump Tower in New York, for millions of dollars a year.

Of course, the details will be as opaque to the public as Trump can make them. That's why he was the first nominee in four decades not to release his tax returns, and why he won't ever release them.

...

And Trump needn't worry that Congress is going to be breathing down his neck. "This is not what I'm concerned about in Congress," said Speaker of the House and straight-arrow ethics advocate Paul Ryan when asked about Trump's conflicts of interest. "I have every bit of confidence he's going to get himself right with moving from being the business guy that he is to the president he's going to become." Other Republicans have a similar faith in Trump's unimpeachable probity. "The American people knowingly voted for a businessman whose name is inextricably tied to his fortune," said Newt Gingrich. "I'd say to the left wing, get over it."

...

Little_Pig 12-09-2016 07:12 PM

We dodge a bullet. Giuliani takes himself out of running for Secretary Of State. :) But Trump is now seriously considering Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson for the post. :eek:

ThelmaLou 12-09-2016 09:32 PM

The violin music swells, and we see a corridor of venerable oak trees shading a lane that leads to a big white house... is it Washington? No, it's the Old South. Gentlemen in wide-brimmed hats astride mighty steeds, demure belles in hoop skirts and bonnets, happy darkies singing in the fields as they pick cotton... ah, don't you wish you could have lived back in those good ol' days?* Well, you just might get the chance!

How Trump and the GOP will try to turn the entire country into Dixie
My bold.
Quote:

Have you ever wondered what it would be like to live in Mississippi or Alabama? Well if the GOP has its way, you’ll get the chance to find out.

That’s because Donald Trump and congressional Republicans, through the executive branch leadership now being assembled and the legislative priorities they have laid out, are preparing to take the economic, political, and social arrangements of the South and spread them across the country.... Let’s look at it piece by piece:

The Southern economic model. The first and most far-reaching component of this project is to take the Southern economic model national. The foundation of that model is the elimination of collective bargaining and the destruction of the labor unions that are able to negotiate higher wages and better benefits for workers.
...
The Southern health care model. The Republicans’ first legislative priority is to repeal the Affordable Care Act, and while we don’t yet know what form that repeal (or its replacement) will take, the people most vulnerable are the estimated 12 million who would lose the coverage they gained because of the law’s expansion of Medicaid. Nineteen states refused to accept that expansion, preferring to keep their poor citizens uninsured rather than allow them to get coverage paid for by the federal government. Those 19 included some conservative states in the Midwest like Kansas and Nebraska, but the largest group of states was in the South: 10 of the 11 states of the Confederacy (Louisiana being the sole exception) refused the Medicaid expansion.
...
The Southern education model. Trump’s nominee for Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos, is not an educator or education administrator; using her wealth as the wife of an heir to the Amway fortune, she has devoted her efforts to essentially trying to destroy public education in her home state of Michigan and in America more generally.
...
The Southern civil rights model. For his Attorney General, Trump picked Alabama’s Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, named for the president of the Confederacy and a Confederate general. ...His most famous case as a prosecutor involved his unsuccessful prosecution of a former aide to the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., whom Sessions went after for helping elderly African-Americans to vote absentee.
...
The Southern abortion rights model. As I’ve explained, not only are Republicans eager to overturn Roe v. Wade; even with that precedent intact they may try to pass federal laws that make the whole country like the South when it comes to abortion.
...
The Southern environmental model. Trump has named Oklahoma attorney general Scott Pruitt to be administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, in a clear sign that he believes the first two words of the agency’s name are no longer operative. This too could represent a nationalization of what prevails in the South, where officials in Republican-dominated states see environmental protection as essentially a nuisance for corporations and the most pressing environmental question is how many wells we can drill.
...
The center of gravity in the GOP has been moving south for decades, and Republicans have long yearned to bring the South’s version of government and democracy to every corner of the country. Now they’ve finally got their chance.

*This description is 100% irony, in case any literal-minded person missed that.

Morgenstern 12-09-2016 11:25 PM

It seems Boeing is pretty worried about how bad the Orange monster will screw up our relations with China. Trump thinks we're in the drivers seat. Boeing thinks Trump is wrong. It all has to do with the 20% of Boeing's output that China buys.

...One-quarter of the nearly 500 Boeing 737 jets delivered in 2015 went to Chinese airlines, serving a fast-growing middle class that's as large as the entire U.S. population. The market is worth a trillion dollars over the next 20 years.

Everyday, Boeing's factories are filled with colorful jets for Chinese airlines that Americans won't recognize: Xiamen, 9 air, Donghai, Ruili, Hainan, Hebei, Shandong and Shenzhen...


Imagine China getting pissed off and sends those orders to Airbus. How many jobs will that Trumponomics cost us? Yes, that threat is real, and those who think it isn't should seek treatment for their nearsightedness.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/09/news...ina/index.html

Trump thinks his practice of going in over his head and then declaring bankruptcy when it doesn't work, will work on the global level. Trump is clearly a moron.

slumtrimpet 12-10-2016 08:02 AM

I can't stop seeing Trump as this gigantic orange chicken that's come home to roost on the practices, policies, and propaganda disseminated by the Republicans/far right etc for the past 20 years or more.
If it wasn't so damned depressing I'd be happy to say "you wanted it, you got it"

Fiveyearlurker 12-10-2016 09:46 AM

"Reports by @CNN that I will be working on The Apprentice during my Presidency, even part time, are rediculous & untrue [sic] – FAKE NEWS!”

He's calling it "fake news" that he is going to work on The Apprentice in his spare time despite the fact that his senior advisor said, exactly that when asked about his role as producer on the show:

"I mean, presidents have a right to do things in their spare time or their leisure time. I mean, nobody objects to that.”

Siam Sam 12-10-2016 10:14 AM

Trump has great potential to be much worse than Nixon. Nixon may not have been likeable, but no one really knew what a rat bastard he was at first. We know what filth Trump is right from the starting gate. That's why most voters did not vote for him.

GIGObuster 12-10-2016 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker (Post 19842987)
"Reports by @CNN that I will be working on The Apprentice during my Presidency, even part time, are rediculous & untrue [sic] – FAKE NEWS!”

He's calling it "fake news" that he is going to work on The Apprentice in his spare time despite the fact that his senior advisor said, exactly that when asked about his role as producer on the show:

"I mean, presidents have a right to do things in their spare time or their leisure time. I mean, nobody objects to that.”

I do wonder aloud if Trump did plan this to discredit CNN. I have to say also that IMHO CNN and many other outlets need to stop ASAP with the idea that Trump deserves to be treated fairly; it is the obligation of the media to stop with the false equivalence and report hard and loud what an incompetent we got as president, that is, unless corporate media does like to be seen as the incompetent one.

Stranger On A Train 12-10-2016 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slumtrimpet (Post 19842813)
I can't stop seeing Trump as this gigantic orange chicken that's come home to roost on the practices, policies, and propaganda disseminated by the Republicans/far right etc for the past 20 years or more.
If it wasn't so damned depressing I'd be happy to say "you wanted it, you got it"

Except they--or rather, the radical right wing that has taken over the Republican party--has actually gotten what they want. Look forward to more restrictive laws on abortion and availability of contraception, denial of climate change and an expansion of drilling and hydraulic fractioning for petroleum versus investment in developing renewable and synthetic energy sources, eviceraton of educational standards and the ability to teach non-science like creationism as "an alternative" to science, reconstituting the Supreme Court with heavily conservative justices who will take a "strict" (e.g. non-progressive) reading of Constitutional law, and removal of protections if not outright persecution of disfavored minorities. Trump has shown the radical right that they can have everything they want if they are just audacioiusly upfront about it and appeal to bigotry and fear. And this is a lesson that will persist long after Trump is playing his golden harp.

Whatever Trump and his administration does in the next few years is nothing compared to the longer term impact on politics and governance in this country. The presidency has been allowed to become a powerful position by fiat, and we've largely depended on the fundamental decency and benevolence of a president not to be a raging asshole. Even with the worst of presidents in the modern era there was a need to be seen as being even-tempered and judicious in the exercise of power, but Trump has violated these preconceptions even before he has taken office. He is literally a man-baby with no sense of decorum or responsibility, and has set a new standard for what is acceptable in the behavior of a presidential candidate, and it is hard to see how we can ever fully unlearn that 'lesson' even after Trump goes away as a figure.

Stranger

Morgenstern 12-10-2016 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker (Post 19842987)
"Reports by @CNN that I will be working on The Apprentice during my Presidency, even part time, are rediculous & untrue [sic] – FAKE NEWS!”

He's calling it "fake news" that he is going to work on The Apprentice in his spare time despite the fact that his senior advisor said, exactly that when asked about his role as producer on the show:

"I mean, presidents have a right to do things in their spare time or their leisure time. I mean, nobody objects to that.”

Given Trump's record on telling the truth, I wouldn't believe him if he told me he colored his hair.

ThelmaLou 12-10-2016 06:38 PM

"Don't need no stinkin' intelligence! I already know everything!"
 
The Donald continues to amaze (even if he does not surprise).
Quote:

WASHINGTON — An extraordinary breach has emerged between President-elect Donald J. Trump and the national security establishment, with Mr. Trump mocking American intelligence assessments that Russia interfered in the election on his behalf, and top Republicans vowing investigations into Kremlin activities.

Mr. Trump, in a statement issued by his transition team on Friday evening, expressed complete disbelief in the intelligence agencies’ assessments.

“These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction,” Mr. Trump’s team said, adding that the election was over and that it was time to “move on.”

Though Mr. Trump has wasted no time in antagonizing the agencies, he will have to rely on them for the sort of espionage activities and analysis that they spend more than $70 billion a year to perform.

At this point in a transition, a president-elect is usually delving into intelligence he has never before seen and learning about C.I.A. and National Security Agency abilities. But Mr. Trump, who has taken intelligence briefings only sporadically, is questioning not only analytic conclusions, but also their underlying facts.

“To have the president-elect of the United States simply reject the fact-based narrative that the intelligence community puts together because it conflicts with his a priori assumptions — wow,” said Michael V. Hayden, who was the director of the N.S.A. and later the C.I.A. under President George W. Bush....

Whole story here.


ThelmaLou 12-10-2016 06:51 PM

Can anyone come up with a benign reason why DT would ask for this? If you were an energy dept employee, would you be a little worried? C'mon Trumpsters (you know who you are), tell the rest of us why this is perfectly okay and no big deal.

Trump Questionnaire Raises Concerns About Retaliation Against Energy Department Staff

Quote:

Among the queries included in a questionnaire sent by President-elect Donald Trump's transition team to workers at the Department of Energy is a request for an inventory of all agency employees or contractors who attended meetings or conferences on climate change. Another question asks for a current list of professional society memberships of any lab staff.

The 74-point questionnaire has raised fears among civil rights lawyers specializing in federal worker whistleblower protections, who say the incoming administration is at a minimum trying to influence or limit the research at the Department of Energy. And at worst, attempting to target employees with views that run counter to the president-elect.

The questionnaire also asks employees for a listing of when the climate change meetings took place, and to provide any materials distributed to them "or materials created by Department employees or contractors in anticipation of or as a result of those meetings."

"This is a very scary indication of what might happen under a Trump administration," says Jason Zuckerman, a former legal adviser to the U.S. Office of Special Counsel, an agency which protects federal workers, particularly on matters of retaliation....

Rest of the story

Robot Arm 12-10-2016 06:54 PM

From ThelmaLou's link:
Quote:

Though Mr. Trump has wasted no time in antagonizing the agencies, he will have to rely on them for the sort of espionage activities and analysis that they spend more than $70 billion a year to perform.
That presupposes that Trump cares about some sort of fact-based results. If you actually want to stop people with ill intentions toward America, you need international cooperation, police and military trained, prepared, and deployed around the world, and intelligence networks to identify who you're looking for. Why go to all that trouble when you can just drop a bomb somewhere, claim it landed on a Radical Islamic TerroristTM, and tell people that they're safer. Don't need any intelligence agencies for that.

drad dog 12-10-2016 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robot Arm (Post 19843871)
From ThelmaLou's link:That presupposes that Trump cares about some sort of fact-based results. If you actually want to stop people with ill intentions toward America, you need international cooperation, police and military trained, prepared, and deployed around the world, and intelligence networks to identify who you're looking for. Why go to all that trouble when you can just drop a bomb somewhere, claim it landed on a Radical Islamic TerroristTM, and tell people that they're safer. Don't need any intelligence agencies for that.

Weren't a lot of Trump voters the ones who never shut up about Obamas drone policy?

Little_Pig 12-10-2016 07:26 PM

Trump expected to tap Exxon's Tillerson for State.

"Few corporate titans are closer to Putin than Tillerson"

"Two years later, the Kremlin awarded Tillerson the Order of Friendship, honoring foreigners."

"Russia is critical for Exxon"

"What good is it to save the planet if humanity suffers," he said at a 2013 stockholders meeting, citing the outsized impact on poor people if environmental activists succeeded in establishing company goals to reduce emissions.


- I got 50 bucks that says he's gotten at least one blow job from Sarah Palin.

elucidator 12-10-2016 11:08 PM

Give me the fifty bucks for brain bleach.

Skywatcher 12-11-2016 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou (Post 19843844)
The Donald continues to amaze (even if he does not surprise).

He did say he talks to himself regarding foreign policy because he knows what's going on better than anyone else. 'Course he won't listen to the intelligence community.

Just Asking Questions 12-11-2016 10:52 AM

Trump doesn't need daily intelligence briefings because he is "too smart".

He also says Pence does get daily briefings.

I don't know if he's saying Pence is "not smart", or if he's admitting Pence is really going to be running the country.

Defensive Indifference 12-11-2016 11:20 AM

I wonder how GWB feels about Trump's lack of attention to intelligence briefings.

Just Asking Questions 12-11-2016 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayard (Post 19844748)
I wonder how GWB feels about Trump's lack of attention to intelligence briefings.

He said, Donald, you can just pretend to listen to them. You don't have to pay attention, or act on them, or anything. Nothing bad can happen.

ThelmaLou 12-11-2016 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions (Post 19844877)
He said, Donald, you can just pretend to listen to them. You don't have to pay attention, or act on them, or anything. Nothing bad can happen.

"And fer God's sake, don't let on that you don't have a clue what they're talking about! Just nod and scowl and you'll be fine."

Defensive Indifference 12-11-2016 02:50 PM

You'd think that after watching those 9/11 celebrations in Jersey, Trump would be especially vigilant about the possibility of an attack on his watch.

Stranger On A Train 12-11-2016 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions (Post 19844696)
Trump doesn't need daily intelligence briefings because he is "too smart".

"I'm, like, a smart person," he explained Sunday. "I don't have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years. Could be eight years – but eight years. I don't need that."
He sounds more like a fifth grader arguing why he doesn't need to keep going to class rather than the President of the United States. Hey, President Clownstick, things actuall occur around the world that impact US policy, often developing on a daily basis. or are we just going to eliminate the State Department, as well, as part of "Making America Great Again"?

How much more "Give Trump a chance!" are we supposed to extend to him, again? He isn't interested in national security, he continues to spread conspiracy theories about electoral fraud, he's appointed a cabinet full of sludge from the bottom of the swamp and industry insiders who are more conflicted than a third year philosophy major being confronted with the reality that there are no philosophy internships much less actual jobs,

Stranger

ThelmaLou 12-11-2016 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train (Post 19845182)
...
How much more "Give Trump a chance!" are we supposed to extend to him, again? He isn't interested in national security, he continues to spread conspiracy theories about electoral fraud, he's appointed a cabinet full of sludge from the bottom of the swamp and industry insiders who are more conflicted than a third year philosophy major being confronted with the reality that there are no philosophy internships much less actual jobs,

Stranger

Honest to God, THIS is the millionbillion-dollar question. :smack:

elucidator 12-11-2016 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train (Post 19845182)
...a third year philosophy major being confronted with the reality that there are no philosophy internships much less actual job...

How do you get an English major off your porch? Pay for the pizza.

Morgenstern 12-11-2016 05:07 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/11/politi...wan/index.html

Trump is bound and determined to fuck up US, China relations. The real loser will be Boeing when China cancels 1 trillion dollars worth of orders expected over the next 20 years. Yep, China can do that with one swipe of the pen. I'll bet Airbus is delighted we have such a moron headed to the Oval throne. Now Airbus will have 1 trillion in extra orders and they will be able to cut prices on along the rest of their line and further damage Boeing's ability to compete. Trump is such a anal sack.

How many jobs will this cost the #1 exporter of American products? This bastard is so nearsighted.

ataraxy22 12-11-2016 05:26 PM

I just read he wants Bolton for #2 at State, behind Rex the Putin puppet. Bolton's foreign policy is basically to just start a war with every other country on Earth, and particularly hates Russia, so that will be interesting.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

ThelmaLou 12-12-2016 10:21 AM

Trump's "Tech Summit" -- a come-to-Jesus meeting for Tech CEOs?
 
He's summoning his subjects and telling them how it's gonna be. (My bold at the end.)

From The Atlantic

Quote:

This week, Trump will host a summit for technology leaders. With the exception of venture capitalist and vocal Trump supporter Peter Thiel, the tech sector has mostly been at loggerheads with Trump since the campaign began. Generally speaking, the industry is economically libertarian but socially progressive. Even though its own infrastructure, like Facebook and Reddit, probably helped spread support for Trump, tech leaders generally supported Hillary Clinton on social issues while opposing Trump on immigration, encryption, and other hot-button issues for the sector.

Over the weekend, Recode’s Kara Swisher reported that the meeting, to be held Wednesday at Trump Tower, will be attended by a small group of key players. Among them: Apple CEO Tim Cook, Alphabet CEO Sergey Brin, Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella, and the chief executives of Cisco, IBM, Intel, and Oracle. Swisher also writes that Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos—who owns the The Washington Post, which has been critical of Trump—was also invited and “is likely to attend.”

Recode indicates that Trump transition adviser Peter Thiel had a hard time convincing more tech leaders to attend, speculating that the “cool kids” of tech, like Uber CEO Travis Kalanick, Netflix CEO Reed Hastings, Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey, Slack CEO Stewart Butterfield, and VCs Marc Andreessen and Reid Hoffman, were either not invited or not attending.

Tech-oriented folks like Swisher might like to believe that accepting (or refusing) the invitation represents a possible resistance against the Trump administration. But as I’ve previously argued, that opposition might ultimately be short-lived. A Trump presidency is ultimately compatible with the technology industry’s business goals: lower taxation, reduced regulation, renegotiated trade, and a campaign commitment to domestic infrastructure investment that could benefit Silicon Valley.

More likely, the Trump tech summit sends a signal to the tech industry: No longer will it enjoy the anonymity and freedom afforded by the Obama administration, whose friendly disregard for the ills of technology only history can judge. And likewise, no longer will Silicon Valley be allowed to ignore Trump’s Hollywood-style, feudal demand for sworn loyalty. This tech summit isn’t a venue for input or discussion, but a reminder of who is in charge. (Trump’s unusual, late-November meeting with The New York Times had a similar purpose.)




ThelmaLou 12-12-2016 10:41 AM

New Russia Role: USA's partner to save the West from Islam
 
Not just "radical Islam," but ALL Islam, which Trump and the extreme right view as the enemy of Western Civilization. To them, Putin is our new best friend in this epic global struggle. Trump's people are on board with this blanket condemnation of an ancient religious civilization. Obama refused to use the term "radical Islam" because of the word Islam-- he didn't want to condemn the whole religion. Trump, et al. have no such hesitation. And his people are too incapable of critical thinking and too uneducated to see the difference. :smack:

This is a presentation of the timeline of shifting perspectives on Russia. I'll summarize with excerpts as best I can, but it's worth reading the whole thing.

From The Atlantic
My bold.

Quote:

Through his public statements and presidential appointments, Donald Trump is remaking Republican foreign policy in two fundamental ways. The first concerns Russia. Previous GOP leaders like Mitt Romney and John McCain described Moscow as an adversary. Trump describes it as a partner. The second concerns Islam. Previous GOP leaders—most notably George W. Bush—insisted that the U.S. had no beef with Islam, or with the vast majority of Muslims worldwide. Trump and his top advisors disagree. They often describe Islam itself as a hostile force, and view ordinary Muslims as guilty of jihadist sympathies until proven innocent.

On the surface, these two shifts seem unrelated. But they’re deeply intertwined. Before Trump, Republican leaders generally described the United States as fighting an ideological struggle against the enemies of freedom. Now, Trump and his advisors describe America as fighting a civilizational struggle against the enemies of the West. Seen through that very different lens, Muslims look more nefarious and Vladimir Putin looks more benign.
...
[Important stuff skipped here]
...
When he ran for president, Trump realized that on Islam, as on trade, Republican elites were out of step with the Republican base. Trump distinguished himself from his rivals not by proposing a different strategy against ISIS. He distinguished himself by suggesting that the problem was not merely ISIS, or even “radical Islam,” but Muslims in general. Republican leaders reacted to Trump’s call for banning Muslim immigration to the U.S. with revulsion. But, according to surveys, more than seven in 10 GOP voters supported it.

Trump also broke with his establishment rivals by taking a softer line on Russia. Maybe financial interests motivated him. Maybe he just likes authoritarian tough-guys. Whatever the reason, the deviation seemed politically dangerous given the overwhelming hostility to Putin among GOP foreign-policy elites. But Trump’s pro-Putin line hasn’t hurt him. In fact, Republicans as a whole have grown markedly less anti-Russian since 2014.
...
Among the alt-right, Putin is a very popular man. He’s popular because he resists the liberal, cosmopolitan values that Muslims supposedly exploit to undermine the West. Richard Spencer, who was until recently married to a pro-Putin Russian writer, has called Russia the “sole white power in the world.” Matthew Heimbach, another prominent figure in the alt-right, recently told Business Insider that “Russia is the leader of the free world.”
...
Trump is building on this shift to recast GOP foreign policy. He’s moving it away from an ideological confrontation with authoritarian Russia and toward a civilizational conflict with Islam. Trump’s choice for National Security Advisor, General Michael Flynn, has tweeted that “fear of Muslims is rational” and that Islam is “like cancer” When asked in August about Putin, he explained that America “beat Hitler because of our relationship with the Russians” and we should renew that partnership in the new world war against “radical Islamism.” Trump’s chief strategist, Steve Bannon, likes to talk about the “long history of the Judeo-Christian West struggle against Islam … a war of immense proportions” that continues to this day.
...
This is the backdrop to the looming conflict between Donald Trump and congressional Republicans like John McCain and Lindsey Graham who want to investigate Russia’s efforts to elect him....


CatandMouse 12-12-2016 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou (Post 19841868)
Makes me wonder if Trump will have his minions scouring message boards like this one to find out who is saying tacky things about him. If that happens, I'm screwed! Mayberry will be too hot to hold me! :eek:



I'm surprised Donald hasn't blocked me on Twitter. lol

SteveG1 12-12-2016 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eulalia (Post 19840323)
I just wish he'd put Tommy Chong in charge of the DEA.

or Walter White :D

SteveG1 12-12-2016 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drad dog (Post 19843909)
Weren't a lot of Trump voters the ones who never shut up about Obamas drone policy?

Yes.

SteveG1 12-12-2016 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train (Post 19845182)
...How much more "Give Trump a chance!" are we supposed to extend to him, again? ...

How about...






None.

Der Trihs 12-12-2016 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgenstern (Post 19845403)
How many jobs will this cost the #1 exporter of American products? This bastard is so nearsighted.

Not nearsighted, psychopathic. He cares about nothing but himself; he doesn't care if Boeing collapses, or if America collapses for that matter. He cares about himself. Period. Everything he does is about indulging his ego and profiting himself, regardless of the cost to anyone else.

It's part of what makes him such a perfect incarnation of the American Right.

Colibri 12-12-2016 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou (Post 19846715)
Not just "radical Islam," but ALL Islam, which Trump and the extreme right view as the enemy of Western Civilization. To them, Putin is our new best friend in this epic global struggle. Trump's people are on board with this blanket condemnation of an ancient religious civilization. Obama refused to use the term "radical Islam" because of the word Islam-- he didn't want to condemn the whole religion. Trump, et al. have no such hesitation. And his people are too incapable of critical thinking and too uneducated to see the difference. :smack:

Ironically enough, this is exactly what Al Qaeda and other jihadists have been trying to provoke. This is the best way to radicalize more Muslims and increase their ranks. Trump plays right into their hands.

CatandMouse 12-12-2016 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calatin (Post 19836634)
It's bumping them down. There are currently 6 specifically anti-Trump threads currently in the Pit.



I guess anti-Trump threads are more popular.

Is there a limit on how many anti-Trump threads we're allowed to start?

CatandMouse 12-12-2016 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions (Post 19844696)
Trump doesn't need daily intelligence briefings because he is "too smart".

He also says Pence does get daily briefings.

I don't know if he's saying Pence is "not smart", or if he's admitting Pence is really going to be running the country.



I think what he's saying is that Pence is in charge of domestic & foreign policy. Donald is busy being a cheerleader for himself, along with his part time job at The Apprentice & Twitter.

Damuri Ajashi 12-13-2016 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calatin (Post 19836634)
It's bumping them down. There are currently 6 specifically anti-Trump threads currently in the Pit.

How many did George W bush have 10 to 15 years ago?

Its the same sort of temper tantrum that we would have seen if McCain won in 2008 or Romney won in 2012.

iiandyiiii 12-13-2016 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colibri (Post 19847849)
Ironically enough, this is exactly what Al Qaeda and other jihadists have been trying to provoke. This is the best way to radicalize more Muslims and increase their ranks. Trump plays right into their hands.

I find it more useful to see the two sides, in this issue, as the pro-religious-war side and the anti-religious-war side, rather than the pro-extremist-Muslim side and anti-extremist-Muslim side. Just like I look at issues of racial justice in terms of pro-race-war and anti-race-war.

Al Qaeda, ISIS, Frank Gaffney, John Bolton, and Michael Flynn are, by their rhetoric, all on the pro-religious-war side -- they all want a giant conflict between Islam and the west.

Just like Dylan Roof (Charleston church shooter) and the guy who shot several Dallas police officers are both on the pro-race-war side.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:56 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.