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-   -   The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=813085)

Monty 04-12-2020 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asahi (Post 22245455)
And because he wants to destroy confidence in voting by mail.


He made damn sure to send his vote in by mail for Florida, though; didn't he?

That reminds me. Has the state of New York's tax department (whatever it's called) made a determination that his filing a change of residence to Florida was not in good faith, as in fraudulent?

Monty 04-13-2020 01:17 AM

Yep; a week ago, I saw this coming:

Quote:

Trump retweeted a threat to fire Fauci after he said the US's slow response to COVID-19 has cost lives

Competence, knowledge, education, concern, compassion, doing the right thing...all of those are foreign languages to that orange clown.

smithsb 04-13-2020 02:21 AM

Someone has to be responsible. He [CFSG] has already staked out the position that it's not him.

Monty 04-13-2020 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smithsb (Post 22245872)
Someone has to be responsible. He [CFSG] has already staked out the position that it's not him.


Yeppers. Amazing how he thinks irresponsible2 actually means unaccountable2, isn't it?

eschereal 04-13-2020 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asahi (Post 22245455)
Good night, democracy.

Fuck your whiny, weepy attitude. If this is what “democracy” gets us, we ought not mourn its passing.

Rick Kitchen 04-13-2020 01:16 PM

Individual 1 says he, and not the governors, has the authority to reopen the economy. What ever happened to that old states' rights drumbeat?
https://www.alternet.org/2020/04/tru...-dangerous/amp

Llama Llogophile 04-13-2020 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen (Post 22246811)
Individual 1 says he, and not the governors, has the authority to reopen the economy. What ever happened to that old states' rights drumbeat?
https://www.alternet.org/2020/04/tru...-dangerous/amp

He's being completely consistent with conservative hypocrisy. When it comes to guns, they want states' rights. Drugs - that of course calls for federal enforcement.

What's odd to me is that either of those positions would be fine from a pragmatic point of view, or at least possibly defensible. But my sense is that many conservatives feel compelled to declare themselves for states' rights as an ideological position. And then, mumble, mumble, mumble when it turns out they don't really mean it.

Little Nemo 04-13-2020 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschereal (Post 22246753)
Fuck your whiny, weepy attitude. If this is what “democracy” gets us, we ought not mourn its passing.

Democracy didn't get us Donald Trump or George W. Bush.

Senegoid 04-13-2020 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen (Post 22246811)
Individual 1 says he, and not the governors, has the authority to reopen the economy. What ever happened to that old states' rights drumbeat?
https://www.alternet.org/2020/04/tru...-dangerous/amp

What powers or authorities does the President have to even attempt this? Is he going to send in the troops? Order people arrested? Nationalize every business? Hold hostage the funding for all kinds of related or unrelated things?

The article predicts lawsuits if he does anything of the sort?

So my question: Does Trump have any powers that the states would need to resist?

In other words: Will it be necessary to take Trump to court? Or will it suffice for the states to simply ignore his blatherings?

amarinth 04-13-2020 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen (Post 22246811)
Individual 1 says he, and not the governors, has the authority to reopen the economy. What ever happened to that old states' rights drumbeat?
https://www.alternet.org/2020/04/tru...-dangerous/amp

What does that even mean -

"Open your store!"
"No. It isn't safe. I don't want to kill my employees and customers."
"?????" What's the move here? Is he planning on forcing stores to open? And how? Tax the crap out of anyone who doesn't re-open? That feels unRepublican.

"Open your store!"
"The city, county, and/or state will fine me."
"Don't worry, the federal government will pay those fines!" (is that the plan?)

It's the virus's timeline.

Ann Hedonia 04-13-2020 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llama Llogophile (Post 22247120)
He's being completely consistent with conservative hypocrisy. When it comes to guns, they want states' rights. Drugs - that of course calls for federal enforcement.

What's odd to me is that either of those positions would be fine from a pragmatic point of view, or at least possibly defensible. But my sense is that many conservatives feel compelled to declare themselves for states' rights as an ideological position. And then, mumble, mumble, mumble when it turns out they don't really mean it.

When it came to CLOSING the economy, he was all states rights blather because “There’s this little thing called the Constitution that I jerk off on every night” or something like that.

Even he can’t force states to reopen, he’ll try to pull some shit in order to effectively force them, like cutting the enhanced unemployment benefits and canceling the small business loan forgiveness for people and companies that don’t reopen, regardless of the dictates of their state.

I think he’s going to start trying to reopen before the end of the month, no matter what. He’s been dogwhistling to his supporters that the shutdown is a Democrat driven plot and he’s perched on the verge of doing something really stupid. Because he just appointed his National Council to Reopen the Economy.

It consists of
Jared
Ivanka
Larry Kudlow
Steve Mnuchin
Wilbur Ross
Robert Lighthizer
Mark Meadows

I wish this were a joke but it’s not.

Fuji 04-13-2020 05:30 PM

He's coked out of his mind right now.

Even by his standards, this press conference is noteworthy.

eschereal 04-13-2020 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo (Post 22247125)
Democracy didn't get us Donald Trump or George W. Bush.

Yes, it did. Over fifty million people voted for W in 2000, over sixty million for CFSG in '16. That is nearly half the voters. The fact that a close election can be resolved by a procedural quirk does not make less “democratic”. If McCain had won by -10M votes in '08, or Rmoney had won by -5M votes in '12, i might be able to see your point. But these here were close elections, where about half the country was going to be unhappy with the result either way. Unless we come up with something better, this is as “democratic” as you can hope for.

Little Nemo 04-13-2020 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia (Post 22247229)
When it came to CLOSING the economy, he was all states rights blather because “There’s this little thing called the Constitution that I jerk off on every night” or something like that.

This is a sign that we're past the worst part of the crisis. When things were getting worse, Trump announced Pence was in charge, it was a state issue, and he had no responsibilities. Now that things are getting better, he wants to kick everyone else off the stage and take all the credit.

Typical Trump; he avoids the battle but he wants to be in the first car of the victory parade.

ThelmaLou 04-13-2020 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo (Post 22247410)
This is a sign that we're past the worst part of the crisis. When things were getting worse, Trump announced Pence was in charge, it was a state issue, and he had no responsibilities. Now that things are getting better, he wants to kick everyone else off the stage and take all the credit.

Typical Trump; he avoids the battle but he wants to be in the first car of the victory parade.

Well, it might be a sign that trump THINKS we're past the worst part of the crisis, but the experts are saying no. Of course, they just want to get on TV and he knows more/better than they do. You are right, however, that if things ever do get better, he will take 110% of the credit.

Little Nemo 04-13-2020 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschereal (Post 22247394)
Yes, it did.

No, it isn't. Democracy is when everyone votes and the person who gets the most votes wins. It's that simple.

Trump didn't get the most votes in 2016. Bush didn't get the most votes in 2000.

asahi 04-13-2020 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschereal (Post 22246753)
Fuck your whiny, weepy attitude. If this is what “democracy” gets us, we ought not mourn its passing.

You're a fucking slave.

Steve MB 04-13-2020 06:43 PM

CNN chyrons for the "briefing":


Quote:

"ANGRY TRUMP TURNS BRIEFING INTO PROPAGANDA SESSION"

"TRUMP REFUSES TO ACKNOWLEDGE ANY MISTAKES"

"TRUMP USES TASK FORCE BRIEFING TO TRY AND REWRITE HISTORY ON CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE"

"TRUMP MELTS DOWN IN ANGRY RESPONSE TO REPORTS HE IGNORED VIRUS WARNINGS"

Blank Slate 04-13-2020 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo (Post 22247416)
No, it isn't. Democracy is when everyone votes and the person who gets the most votes wins. It's that simple.

Trump didn't get the most votes in 2016. Bush didn't get the most votes in 2000.

Clinton 48.2%

Trump 46.1%

That's not even close, and it sure as shit isn't democratic.

Monty 04-13-2020 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia (Post 22247229)
Because he just appointed his National Council to Reopen the Economy.


What happened to his plan to call it the opening our country council?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo (Post 22247410)
This is a sign that we're past the worst part of the crisis. When things were getting worse, Trump announced Pence was in charge, it was a state issue, and he had no responsibilities. Now that things are getting better, he wants to kick everyone else off the stage and take all the credit.

Typical Trump; he avoids the battle but he wants to be in the first car of the victory parade.


&

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou (Post 22247415)
Well, it might be a sign that trump THINKS we're past the worst part of the crisis, but the experts are saying no. Of course, they just want to get on TV and he knows more/better than they do. You are right, however, that if things ever do get better, he will take 110% of the credit.


Nope. It's a sign that this pandemic has already lasted longer than his attention span and this is how he's responding to those few experts left in government service who are telling him what a responsible leader would do. But all he hears is "I will hold a campaign rally on the government's dime press conference and say something and I will be adored. Oooooh. Adoration!"

TonySinclair 04-13-2020 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo (Post 22247125)
Democracy didn't get us Donald Trump or George W. Bush.

It got us Bush in 2004, which coincidentally is when I gave up trying to understand people.

TonySinclair 04-13-2020 11:59 PM

dupe

Tatterdemalion 04-14-2020 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonySinclair (Post 22247993)
dupe

Are you referring to Trump or Bush voters?

Blank Slate 04-14-2020 09:47 AM

Could it be mass lead poisoning? Or contaminated Twinkies? (Still trying to make sense of the OrangeAnus and his followers three and half years later)

Little Nemo 04-14-2020 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonySinclair (Post 22247980)
It got us Bush in 2004, which coincidentally is when I gave up trying to understand people.

Maybe. I'm still not 100% convinced Bush really won that election.

But even if we agree won in 2004, he did it as an incumbent. If Bush had lost in 2000, he wouldn't have been running in 2004.

This is what the last thirty years would have looked like if we had democracy:

1988: George H.W. Bush
1992: Bill Clinton
1996: Bill Clinton
2000: Al Gore
2004: Al Gore
2008: Barack Obama
2012: Barack Obama
2016: Hillary Clinton

I'm pretty sure we'd be living in a better country and a better world.

MikeF 04-14-2020 10:13 AM

[QUOTE=... (Still trying to make sense of the OrangeAnus and his followers three and half years later)[/QUOTE]

That's a fool's errand, if there ever was one.

jsc1953 04-14-2020 10:39 AM

News from Wisconsin, better suited for the politics forum but perhaps will shine a beacon of hope in our dreary world:

You may recall that the Democratic governor wanted to postpone their primary election last week, but were thwarted by the Republican legislature and conservative-dominated state supreme court.

You may also recall that there was a conservative supreme court incumbent on the ballot, endorsed by Trump. And that Trump bragged and crowed that the liberals were freaked out by his endorsement, and that's why they wanted a postponement.

And so the election proceeded with long lines of people braving virus exposure to vote at the few polling places that were open.

Well....

The Trumpian incumbent LOST.

Fuckin' awesome.

This bodes well for a battleground state in November.

Mundane Super Hero 04-14-2020 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia (Post 22247229)
Because he just appointed his National Council to Reopen the Economy.

It consists of
Jared
Ivanka
Larry Kudlow
Steve Mnuchin
Wilbur Ross
Robert Lighthizer
Mark Meadows

I wish this were a joke but it’s not.


Great... the Louseketeers...

Aspenglow 04-14-2020 11:39 AM

On the Wisconsin Supreme Court win by the Democrat: The implications are even more enormous.

There is one conservative justice on that now 4-3 court who sides with the liberals on the Republican voter suppression effort to throw 200,000 Wisconsin voters off the rolls. It seems likely now that the Republican effort will fail. Since Trump won the state by a mere 23,000 votes and Barr-ing unforeseen events, looks like Wisconsin is again a safe Democratic stronghold for 2020.

In short, the Democratic win in this instance is huge.

OttoDaFe 04-14-2020 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aspenglow (Post 22248775)
On the Wisconsin Supreme Court win by the Democrat: The implications are even more enormous.

There is one conservative justice on that now 4-3 court who sides with the liberals on the Republican voter suppression effort to throw 200,000 Wisconsin voters off the rolls. It seems likely now that the Republican effort will fail. Since Trump won the state by a mere 23,000 votes and Barr-ing unforeseen events, looks like Wisconsin is again a safe Democratic stronghold for 2020.

In short, the Democratic win in this instance is huge.

If this be true — and I have no immediate reason to doubt it — it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Republicans attempted to invalidate the election on the grounds that it should have been postponed until after the country had been reopened by Dear Leader's fiat Presidential order.

(Which, of course, was always their position. But they were overruled by the Demonrat in the Governor's mansion.)

Euphonious Polemic 04-14-2020 12:31 PM

Meanwhile in Canada, the Federal Government and the Provinces are in talks to discuss a strategy for re-opening the economy in stages. Scientific and medical advice will be followed, and there is recognition that the virus is at different stages in different areas of the country, and some areas are harder hit than others.

It is so good to see the various political parties working quite well together. It makes the citizens feel like things are being handled as well as can be expected, and the leaders actually want to make things better for everyone.

Rick Kitchen 04-14-2020 01:53 PM

Representatives Tom Malinowski (D-N.J.), Dean Phillips (D-Minn.) and Justin Amash (I-Mich.) introduced a one-sentence resolution on Tuesday which reads, "The House of Representatives affirms that when someone is the president of the United States, their authority is not total."
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...tal-authority?

jsc1953 04-14-2020 02:07 PM

Should be a fascinating vote, where all the Republicans come down firmly on the side of authoritarianism.

Little Nemo 04-14-2020 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blank Slate (Post 22247518)
That's not even close, and it sure as shit isn't democratic.

Back when I was working, I used to joke that we would all take a vote and then I would decide what I wanted to do. (In case it's not obvious, I was the boss.)

Democracy is more than just being able to vote. Democracy requires that the outcome be decided by the votes. If a hundred million people vote and then we throw those votes out and let some small group decide the outcome, it isn't a democracy.

ThelmaLou 04-14-2020 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsc1953 (Post 22249047)
Should be a fascinating vote, where all the Republicans come down firmly on the side of authoritarianism.

Make 'em OWN it!

Quint 04-14-2020 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia (Post 22247229)
When it came to CLOSING the economy, he was all states rights blather because “There’s this little thing called the Constitution that I jerk off on every night” or something like that.

Even he can’t force states to reopen, he’ll try to pull some shit in order to effectively force them, like cutting the enhanced unemployment benefits and canceling the small business loan forgiveness for people and companies that don’t reopen, regardless of the dictates of their state.

I think he’s going to start trying to reopen before the end of the month, no matter what. He’s been dogwhistling to his supporters that the shutdown is a Democrat driven plot and he’s perched on the verge of doing something really stupid. Because he just appointed his National Council to Reopen the Economy.

It consists of
Jared
Ivanka
Larry Kudlow
Steve Mnuchin
Wilbur Ross
Robert Lighthizer
Mark Meadows

I wish this were a joke but it’s not.

"So you’ve got Marie Antoinette Barbie and Fully Useless Ken on board, but who else makes up this brain trust that is literally holding people’s lives in its hands? Any doctors? Health experts? Economists? Fuck no!"

From here. Great read.

Johnny L.A. 04-14-2020 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quint (Post 22249158)
"So you’ve got Marie Antoinette Barbie and Fully Useless Ken on board...

How about 'Anatomically Deficient Ken'? :p

Toxgoddess 04-14-2020 04:49 PM

Trump is referring to state governors who refuse to concede his total authority as "mutineers". He wants them to know that "Mutiny on the Bounty is one of my all-timefavorite movies."

Apparently he doesn't remember that Capt. Bligh ended up being set adrift in a small boat while the mutineers took the ship to their desired destination. Now, in real life, the captain made it back to England because, for all his other faults, he was a competent sailor. So to be fair, I'm willing to set Trump adrift in a small boat in the middle of the ocean and see if he makes it back to land.

Vinyl Turnip 04-14-2020 04:52 PM

Wonder how he feels about Downfall.

bobot 04-14-2020 04:57 PM

I wonder why he didn't say that Mutiny On The Bounty was one of his favorite books?

Ha-ha, just kidding, Republican Trump supporting dipshits! I don't wonder at all why he didn't lie that way, instead.

Siam Sam 04-14-2020 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxgoddess (Post 22249379)
Apparently he doesn't remember that Capt. Bligh ended up being set adrift in a small boat while the mutineers took the ship to their desired destination. Now, in real life, the captain made it back to England because, for all his other faults, he was a competent sailor.

But while he was exonerated of misdeeds by a military court, didn't they still find that he had been the wrong person to be named a captain? Or was that just in the movie? It's been awhile.

Broomstick 04-14-2020 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxgoddess (Post 22249379)
Trump is referring to state governors who refuse to concede his total authority as "mutineers". He wants them to know that "Mutiny on the Bounty is one of my all-timefavorite movies."

I'm not entirely sure Trump caught the main plot of that movie...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxgoddess (Post 22249379)
Apparently he doesn't remember that Capt. Bligh ended up being set adrift in a small boat while the mutineers took the ship to their desired destination. Now, in real life, the captain made it back to England because, for all his other faults, he was a competent sailor.

... And then later on Bligh got himself a jail cell during the New South Wales Rum Rebellion. He was a competent sailor and a world-class navigator, but for some reason he managed multiple times to piss off his subordinates to the point they overturned his authority and sent him packing.

Not sure he's a commander a leader to aspire to emulate....

Siam Sam 04-14-2020 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broomstick (Post 22249405)
Not sure he's a commander a leader to aspire to emulate....

Why not? His current role model seems to be Jabba the Hutt.

Johnny L.A. 04-14-2020 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny L.A. (Post 22249283)
How about 'Anatomically Deficient Ken'? :p

Sorry. Anatomically Challenged Ken.

Smapti 04-14-2020 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxgoddess (Post 22249379)
Apparently he doesn't remember that Capt. Bligh ended up being set adrift in a small boat while the mutineers took the ship to their desired destination. Now, in real life, the captain made it back to England because, for all his other faults, he was a competent sailor. So to be fair, I'm willing to set Trump adrift in a small boat in the middle of the ocean and see if he makes it back to land.

Knowing the way Loser Donald thinks, I imagine the point he got from the movie was "Captain Bligh was a great and strong leader, and the haters and losers (of which there were many) were very unfair to him and spread Fake News to make him look bad. Sad!"

Great Antibob 04-14-2020 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broomstick (Post 22249405)
Not sure he's a commander a leader to aspire to emulate....

From most accounts, he was actually an able naval officer and sailor. Not nearly as harsh as his peers or as he's been made out to be by the Pitcairn mutineers and the Bounty's log tends to bear this out.

That said, he wasn't a great governor as compared to naval officer, which the Rum Rebellion showed.

Trump is notably averse to reading, so all he knows of the actual Bligh are probably from movies and even there, he's showing his usual and remarkable lack of insight if he thinks Bligh got the best of the mutineers.

Darren Garrison 04-14-2020 05:37 PM

"At potential" Ken.

Locrian 04-14-2020 05:40 PM

So, no more funding for WHO.

kambuckta 04-14-2020 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locrian (Post 22249508)
So, no more funding for WHO.

Just watched that live.

Fucking moron.

eschereal 04-14-2020 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo (Post 22248573)
This is what the last thirty years would have looked like if we had democracy:

1988: George H.W. Bush
1992: Bill Clinton
1996: Bill Clinton
2000: Al Gore
2004: Al Gore
2008: Barack Obama
2012: Barack Obama
2016: Hillary Clinton

No. Al Gore probably would have had two terms, but he would not have been able to prevent the collapse of '08, so you would have to include at least a full term of Rmoney, possibly two. On the upside, Barack Obama would be President today, but if this were the tail end of his second term, I could not begin to guess who would be taking over for him next year.


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