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-   -   Prime Minister Boris Johnson tries to lead the UK (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=879601)

DCTrekkie 09-25-2019 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo (Post 21880531)
Attorney General Geoffrey Cox wasn't holding back today::confused:

What? "These turkeys won't be able to prevent Christmas"? Brexit is like Christmas? Is there some pop culture reference at play here that I'm missing? Is it a South Park reference? Or is there some particular British expression or story about a turkey trying to prevent Christmas?

And again: Brexit is like Christmas? With gifts for everyone and a warm family hearth and a sumptuous feast? Is that what he's saying?

It's a reference to the phrase "...like turkeys voting for Christmas", implying that turkeys are stupid enough to vote for an event that will lead to their own death (Turkey being the traditional Christmas meal in many countries). The parallels to Brexit are obvious.

He seems to be saying though that, having voted for it, it's now too late for the turkeys to save themselves.

Baron Greenback 09-25-2019 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo (Post 21880531)
What? "These turkeys won't be able to prevent Christmas"? Brexit is like Christmas? Is there some pop culture reference at play here that I'm missing? Is it a South Park reference? Or is there some particular British expression or story about a turkey trying to prevent Christmas?

There's a British idiom "Turkeys voting for Christmas" ie doing somethings against ones own self-interest. Cox is just mangling that - his performance became a bit unhinged towards the end, to be honest.

Snowboarder Bo 09-25-2019 09:14 AM

Thank you both for the clarification. I understood the gist, of course, but I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "like turkeys voting for Christmas" before.

So: Brexit is like Christmas?

Steophan 09-25-2019 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo (Post 21880558)
So: Brexit is like Christmas?

Well, it's something a lot of people are looking forward to for some reason, something that we'll do without really knowing why, will cost a lot of money, and is causing a lot of unnecessary arguments.

GreenWyvern 09-25-2019 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo (Post 21880531)
Attorney General Geoffrey Cox wasn't holding back today::confused:

What? "These turkeys won't be able to prevent Christmas"? Brexit is like Christmas? Is there some pop culture reference at play here that I'm missing? Is it a South Park reference? Or is there some particular British expression or story about a turkey trying to prevent Christmas?

And again: Brexit is like Christmas? With gifts for everyone and a warm family hearth and a sumptuous feast? Is that what he's saying?

I've always had the impression this was an American idiom, but it turns out that it's British, and it was first used in a British political context.

Turkeys voting for Christmas

The American equivalent is 'Turkeys voting for Thanksgiving'.

ElvisL1ves 09-25-2019 09:36 AM

The American version is "a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders", if you're interested.

Wrenching Spanners 09-25-2019 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo (Post 21880558)
Thank you both for the clarification. I understood the gist, of course, but I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "like turkeys voting for Christmas" before.

So: Brexit is like Christmas?

Cox was referring to a proposed general election. Labour, Liberal Democrats, the Scottish National Party, and the Greens (not sure about Plaid Cymru) have all called for a general election. However, they’ve also voted against it using the “need to prevent a No-Deal Brexit” as a shield. The reality is that 1) the non-Conservatives would almost surely need to form a coalition government to get a majority, and no-one’s figured out yet how that will work; 2) Labour is in such disarray that they don’t know if they support Brexit or not, want a referendum but aren’t sure what the referendum will be for, and are in a civil war over whether to be a hard-left or centre-left party; and 3) they’re really worried that a combination of traditional Conservative voters and pro-Brexit supporters might actually achieve a majority in Parliament in a general election. Cox is basically making fun of the hypocrisy of the parties calling for a general election while trying to avoid it, and taking the opportunity to call them turkeys. It’s not the greatest oratorical use of the simile, but it works well enough for taking a shot at an opponent.

PatrickLondon 09-25-2019 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo (Post 21880558)
So: Brexit is like Christmas?

For those who believe in it (and especially a no-deal Brexit), it certainly involves hoping for some magical overnight surprise treat. For unicorns, read reindeer.

DCTrekkie 09-25-2019 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenWyvern (Post 21880590)
I've always had the impression this was an American idiom, but it turns out that it's British, and it was first used in a British political context.

Turkeys voting for Christmas

The American equivalent is 'Turkeys voting for Thanksgiving'.

Ha. They even mention Brexit as an example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
A prominent anecdotal example was displayed in the UK in 2016, whereby areas which were net beneficiaries of EU subsidies voted by a majority to leave the EU and then campaigned to preserve their EU funding afterwards: for example, Cornwall.


Elendil's Heir 09-25-2019 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isamu (Post 21880331)
"Are we doomed to a cold and hard future where a computer says ‘yes’ or ‘no’?”

Computer says no.

Well, I'd listen to the computer, then. I'm sure it knows best.

GreenWyvern 09-25-2019 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickLondon (Post 21880643)
For those who believe in it (and especially a no-deal Brexit), it certainly involves hoping for some magical overnight surprise treat. For unicorns, read reindeer.

Don't forget that Oct 31 is Halloween. Perhaps Johnson will wait in a pumpkin patch for the Great Pumpkin to rise up at midnight and deliver Brexit to all true believers.

Baron Greenback 09-25-2019 12:15 PM

Here's a little taste of what Parliament has been like today (not an ideal format - a video embedded in a tweet, but at least it isn't geo-restricted). It's been a bit feisty.

https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/1176821574378360832

And this is before Johnson has even entered the chamber.

ElvisL1ves 09-25-2019 01:15 PM

The usual yells of "Rubbish!" and "Resign!" just aren't going to cut the mustard anymore, are they?

GreenWyvern 09-25-2019 01:19 PM

The transport secretary, Grant Shapps, has just made a statement about the collapse of Thomas Cook.

The previous transport secretary, 'Failing' Greyling, was widely regarded as the most useless person ever to hold that post. Nevertheless, Shapps decided to take a leaf out his book... literally!

He took one of Greyling's speeches, and used it verbatim, except for making necessary changes in names and figures.

Quote:

“With your permission, I would like to make a statement about the steps the government have been taking to support those affected by the collapse of Monarch Airlines Thomas Cook, in particular the 110,000 150,000 passengers left abroad without a flight back to the UK and the almost 2,000 9,000 people who have lost their jobs.”
Yes, it's an idiocracy. :smack:

It was a generic speech that meant absolutely nothing, so I suppose he thought it didn't matter, and nobody would notice. Naturally, as transport secretary, he couldn't really care a stuff about Thomas Cook. He only needed to say some soothing words.

kevlaw 09-25-2019 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo (Post 21880531)
Or is there some particular British expression or story about a turkey trying to prevent Christmas?

There is a saying "Like turkeys voting for Christmas".

English families traditionally have turkey for Christmas. That is, Christmas is a particularly bad time for turkeys.

Baron Greenback 09-25-2019 01:24 PM

Johnson is expected to say tonight that he will allow a vote of no confidence if a motion is put forward by any party. Note that if Jeremy Corbyn does it, as he's Leader of the Opposition, then parliamentary time is made automatically, but that doesn't apply to the smaller parties unless the government makes time available. So, I wonder if the SNP will fancy it?

(Source: every single UK political correspondent)

Baron Greenback 09-25-2019 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21881161)
The usual yells of "Rubbish!" and "Resign!" just aren't going to cut the mustard anymore, are they?

I'm just waiting for someone to grab the Mace and start swinging it around.

Ludovic 09-25-2019 02:38 PM

Well, everyone would be relatively safe due to the lack of Kevin Vickers.

Snowboarder Bo 09-25-2019 02:50 PM

Jeremy Corbyn speaks thus:
Quote:

Britain’s main opposition leader has rejected Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s taunting demand for a no-confidence vote in the government, saying he won’t support a new election unless a no-deal Brexit is ruled out.

Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn says Johnson should secure a delay to Britain’s EU exit — scheduled for Oct. 31 — and “then let’s have an election.”

And he called for Johnson to resign over his illegal suspension of Parliament.

He said Johnson “should have done the honorable thing and resigned” after the Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that the prime minister’s attempt to shut down Parliament for five weeks was unlawful. Johnson says he won’t quit.

Johnson accuses his opponents of being scared of the verdict of the public for refusing to back an election.

Baron Greenback 09-25-2019 03:33 PM

Johnson is disgracing himself and the office he holds right now. I'll not say any more than that as I am very, very angry.

ElvisL1ves 09-25-2019 03:46 PM

Shouldn't that be "rather cross indeed"? ;)

Steophan 09-25-2019 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Greenback (Post 21881542)
Johnson is disgracing himself and the office he holds right now. I'll not say any more than that as I am very, very angry.

He is deliberately attempting to make people angry, both his supporters and enemies, and will try to use that anger to his advantage. And unless the Opposition do something to get rid of him, all their sound and fury will end up signifying nothing.

One thing I noticed with interest was Johnson's suggestion of changing the nickname of the bill from "Surrender Bill" to "Humiliation Bill". That, to me, shows that he understands what the opposition is doing - they are not merely trying to take charge and prevent a no-deal Brexit, but to humiliate Johnson and the Tories. That is unlikely to work, as it's hard to humiliate those with no shame.

I do get that the surface meaning, so to speak, of "Humiliation Bill" is to suggest national humiliation rather than personal, but Johnson's smart enough to manage both.

Saint Cad 09-25-2019 05:41 PM

I'd say it's time for the Queen to fire everyone and start over from scratch. Of course it won't happen, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

Celyn 09-25-2019 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Cad (Post 21881771)
I'd say it's time for the Queen to fire everyone and start over from scratch. Of course it won't happen, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

It certainly shouldn't happen as I doubt people want a return to absolute monarchs, but It's an entertaining thought, I suppose.

Steophan 09-25-2019 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Cad (Post 21881771)
I'd say it's time for the Queen to fire everyone and start over from scratch. Of course it won't happen, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

I mean, Johnson's been trying to get that to happen but Parliament won't agree.

Baron Greenback 09-25-2019 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21881574)
Shouldn't that be "rather cross indeed"? ;)

No.

DCTrekkie 09-25-2019 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steophan (Post 21881784)
I mean, Johnson's been trying to get that to happen but Parliament won't agree.

What are you talking about. All the opposition parties have said that they are eager to hold an election, just not while the threat of no deal is held over them. If Boris just gets an extension **as explicitly instructed by Parliament** they will happily get the election underway.

Or do you think they should trust Boris to play fair?

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Steophan 09-25-2019 06:35 PM

If they don't think Johnson is acceptable as PM, they need to either hold a vote of no confidence or accept his call for an election. Of course, because of their refusal to do that, we're now at a point where we have to trust that Johnson will play fair or else we leave Europe with no deal.

Parliament, by continuing to show confidence in Johnson as PM, are allowing this to happen. If they chose, they could remove Johnson, install a unity government, and prevent Brexit this week. They haven't, they continue to play political games - and Johnson is far better at those games than they are, as he showed in the commons today.

Dr. Drake 09-25-2019 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steophan (Post 21881897)
If they don't think Johnson is acceptable as PM, they need to either hold a vote of no confidence or accept his call for an election. Of course, because of their refusal to do that, we're now at a point where we have to trust that Johnson will play fair or else we leave Europe with no deal.

Parliament, by continuing to show confidence in Johnson as PM, are allowing this to happen. If they chose, they could remove Johnson, install a unity government, and prevent Brexit this week. They haven't, they continue to play political games - and Johnson is far better at those games than they are, as he showed in the commons today.

Wow. I 100% agree with this post, which is not usual for us!

Parliament could also revoke Article 50 and completely reset the clock, giving them time to plan an orderly withdrawal deal, and only then invoke it again.

Johnson is a terrible person and a terrible PM, but Parliament bears an awful lot of the blame here.

Walken After Midnight 09-25-2019 11:11 PM

Boris Johnson tells the House of Commons that "the best way to honour the memory" of Jo Cox, the Labour Remain-backing MP who was murdered by a right-wing extremist during the referendum campaign, "would be, I think, to get Brexit done".

Elendil's Heir 09-26-2019 01:21 AM

Just when I think he can't go any lower....

GreenWyvern 09-26-2019 02:41 AM

Any decent person who watched the debate in the Commons last night can only conclude that Johnson is a sack of steaming shit dressed up like a human being.

GreenWyvern 09-26-2019 03:01 AM

I agree 100% with the oppposition parties that the election should be delayed. Let the Tories stew in their own juice until they they are well and truly done.

Wait until
a) an extension has been obtained
b) after 31 Oct
Let Johnson lie and bluster all he likes, let him flail around ineffectually with a majority of minus 20-something, losing vote after vote and blaming everybody but himself. Let the dissatisfaction with Johnson and Cummings within the parliamentary Tory party continue to grow. Let Cummings get more desperate, vicious and extreme. Let the internal quarrels come out into the open. Wait for a few more firings, a few more resignations, a few more Tory MPs leaving the party, a few more scandals.

When Brexit hasn't happened on 31 Oct, and Johnson hasn't died in a ditch, then - and only then - hold an election.

His followers are not the most rational or forgiving of people. Johnson said 31 Oct, do or die, with a deal or without. They will feel that he is useless, that he lied to them like everyone else. They will drop him like a hot potato and vote for Farage - splitting the Tory vote, and ensuring they lose the election comprehensively.

If an election were to be held before 31 Oct, they would vote solidly and enthusiastically for Johnson in the hope that he would deliver, and Farage would stay out of the way of the Tories. Not even Corbyn is so lacking in political common sense as to hold an election before the end of October.

Alessan 09-26-2019 03:53 AM

Is there any chance of Corbyn being replaced any time soon? I mean, I have my own reasons for disliking him, obviously, but only the willfully ignorant would refuse to admit that the British left is in desperate need of leadership, and Corbyn isn't delivering.

Stanislaus 09-26-2019 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alessan (Post 21882463)
Is there any chance of Corbyn being replaced any time soon? I mean, I have my own reasons for disliking him, obviously, but only the willfully ignorant would refuse to admit that the British left is in desperate need of leadership, and Corbyn isn't delivering.

Sadly not.

in 2016, Corbyn lost a no-confidence vote by his own MPs by an enormous margin. It was inconceivable that he wouldn't just do the conventional thing and resign: he didn't resign.

There was no actual rule that he had to, it turned out. The rulebook was predicated on the idea that a party leader could only lead if the MPs backed him. But Corbyn has the backing of the membership, including a large block of new and returned members who are specifically supporters of Corbyn rather than Labour in general. Members can make life very difficult for MPs they're unhappy with either by passively not turning up to do the tedious electioneering grind of e.g. leafleting 1000 houses in a morning, or more actively by campaigning for their deselection. So it turned out Corbyn didn't need the MPs, and the MPs did need the party membership.

Ever since that reality has been made plain, the likelihood of Labour MPs replacing Corbyn has been negligible. The only route would be for the membership to become disillusioned by him, which hasn't happened (at least, not enough and not among the Corbyn-first-Labour-second bloc). It's worth saying at this point that the anti-Corbyn MPs have been completely useless in attempting to win the membership over, or unifying around a centre-left programme, or doing anything much other than whinge about how unfair it all is, which largely serves to reduce their popularity with the membership.

(The other route to replacing Corbyn is for him to get fed up with the whole thing and resign. There have been occasional rumours that he finds the whole business draining and would like to spend more time on his allotment, but they never come to anything.)

The MPs have shot their bolt, there is no plausible mechanism to remove him, and no prospect of doing so in a way that doesn't lead to an acrimonious split in Labour. Also, it's too late now - there will be an election this year, and Corbyn will be leading Labour in it.

Stanislaus 09-26-2019 04:35 AM

Probably also worth saying that I think Labour's Brexit policy is actually quite sensible: negotiate a better deal, then put that deal to the people with Remain as the other option. The fact that this is portrayed as a) incomprehensibly complex and b) indecisive is partly due to Labour's inability to communicate a coherent message, and partly due to the febrile state of our debate, where anything other than "YES!" or "NO!" is seen as suspicious.

Steophan 09-26-2019 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenWyvern (Post 21882441)
When Brexit hasn't happened on 31 Oct, and Johnson hasn't died in a ditch, then - and only then - hold an election.

That is, without a doubt, and "if" not a "when". The default is still to leave without a deal on the 31st, and whilst the bill might require the PM to request an extension, it does nothing to actually compel him to do so, and (obviously) does nothing to compel the EU to accept.

Maybe Johnson will comply, and maybe the EU will grant it. Hopefully, those things will happen, although they will lead to a likely Corbyn-led Government and more months or years of Brexit uncertainty, with Corbyn trying to take us out. That might be better than No-Deal, but not by much.

I still think it's likely Johnson will find a way to not request an extension. He's said that he will not, and I have no doubt he does not intend to send it. He is also, as I've said before, a far more talented politician than most of the opposition, and quite capable of stalling for the 2 weeks that would be necessary to achieve that.

The Opposition and the smaller parties are far more concerned with humiliating Johnson - as are you, to judge from your post - than with simply getting rid of him and getting on with business. There is a significant possibility that will backfire on them.

Gyrate 09-26-2019 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight (Post 21882313)
Boris Johnson tells the House of Commons that "the best way to honour the memory" of Jo Cox, the Labour Remain-backing MP who was murdered by a right-wing extremist during the referendum campaign, "would be, I think, to get Brexit done".

Just when I thought he couldn't get any more despicable, he proves me wrong. That was his response to a plea asking for more measured language from the MP who took over the constituency from Jo Cox, an MP murdered by a mentally-ill Britain-Firster. Instead, he ramped up the nasty language even further.

The man is scum.

GreenWyvern 09-26-2019 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steophan (Post 21882492)
That is, without a doubt, and "if" not a "when". The default is still to leave without a deal on the 31st, and whilst the bill might require the PM to request an extension, it does nothing to actually compel him to do so, and (obviously) does nothing to compel the EU to accept.


It's always entertaining to see Brexiteers and Johnson supporters pretending not be, here on the SDMB. But if it looks like a duck... :D

Don't get your hopes up about a no-deal Brexit, Steophan. Guy Verhofstadt said yesterday,

Quote:

“We are in favour of an extension if we also see what is the way forward, will there be a general election, a second referendum, will there be a Withdrawal Agreement,” said Guy Verhofstadt, an EU lawmaker dealing with Brexit.

“I think that there is unanimity...to say ‘OK, let’s go forward with an extension if there is a clear path to a solution and unwinding of the situation we have today’,” he told EU lawmakers on Wednesday afternoon.

With a national election expected in Britain by the end of the year, the bloc currently sees that as the most likely justification of another lag.

And Johnson will be breaking the law if he doesn't request an extension. Most legal opinion holds that he can be found guilty of contempt and jailed, and someone else can be nominated by Parliament to ask the EU for an extension.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Steophan (Post 21882492)
I still think it's likely Johnson will find a way to not request an extension. He's said that he will not, and I have no doubt he does not intend to send it. He is also, as I've said before, a far more talented politician than most of the opposition

Johnson a talented politician?  🤣

That must be the most amusing thing you've ever said on this thread. He's been outmaneuvered, blocked, defeated, again and again at every turn. He's lost 6 parliamentary votes so far. He's lost his majority by expelling 21 MPs. He's been smacked hard over the head by the Supreme Court and forced unwillingly to come back to Parliament. He's not getting his way about the election he so desperately wants.

A number of his remaining MPs are feeling a 'sense of doom' and discussing ways to get rid of him.

Would to care to point to any examples of his political 'successes'?

nightshadea 09-26-2019 07:27 AM

is it me or does the EU seem to think that either the UK will 1 just give up or 2 have another vote overturning the whole thing if there's a new government


their attitude seems to be "well just be patient and sanity will prevail" sanity being remaining maybe with changes ....

Steophan 09-26-2019 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenWyvern (Post 21882538)
It's always entertaining to see Brexiteers and Johnson supporters pretending not be, here on the SDMB. But if it looks like a duck... :D

I've been vocally against Brexit, I voted Remain, and have vocally supported the Lib Dens recently. I certainly tend to the conservative in my politics, but that doesn't mean supporting any party or politician unquestioningly.

Quote:

And Johnson will be breaking the law if he doesn't request an extension. Most legal opinion holds that he can be foun guilty of contempt and jailed, and someone else can be nominated by Parliament to ask the EU for an extension.
If he's still PM at that point, and if the laws not changed, that might be the case, but would have to be tested in court. Which could take longer than 12 days, which would mean no deal. The last few weeks have shown that Johnson is willing to act unlawfully.


Quote:

Johnson a talented politician?  🤣

That must be the most amusing thing you've ever said on this thread. He's been outmaneuvered, blocked, defeated, again and again at every turn. He's lost 6 parliamentary votes so far. He's lost his majority by expelling 21 MPs. He's been smacked hard over the head by the Supreme Court and forced unwillingly to come back to Parliament. He's not getting his way about the election he so desperately wants.

A number of his remaining MPs are feeling a 'sense of doom' and discussing ways to get rid of him.

Would to care to point to any examples of his political 'successes'?
He's Prime Minister, for one thing, and despite all his supposed bad actions maintains the confidence of the house despite not having a majority. He's manoeuvring towards getting Brexit next month then getting reelected - his actions are playing well to the public. If The Sun keeps supporting him, he is doing well. Also, he was a better mayor of London than his predecessor or successor - although Ken did much better than expected.

Baron Greenback 09-26-2019 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenWyvern (Post 21882538)
He's lost 6 parliamentary votes so far.

7 now. The Talented Mr Johnson can't even persuade the Commons to allow a 3-day recess so that the Tories can attend their own party conference. It would take a heart of stone not to laugh...

Steophan 09-26-2019 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Greenback (Post 21882700)
7 now. The Talented Mr Johnson can't even persuade the Commons to allow a 3-day recess so that the Tories can attend their own party conference. It would take a heart of stone not to laugh...

And it also destroys any claim that the Oppositon simply wants business as usual, as if propping up a minority government whilst simultaneously preventing them from governing hasn't done that.

The longer they go without removing Johnson, or allowing an election, the more blame they will share for whatever happens next.

Elendil's Heir 09-26-2019 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Greenback (Post 21882700)
7 now. The Talented Mr Johnson can't even persuade the Commons to allow a 3-day recess so that the Tories can attend their own party conference....

Hard to blame them. Why should they give him a break just to go and give a speech bashing them in a seaside resort somewhere?

glee 09-26-2019 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steophan (Post 21882621)
He's Prime Minister, for one thing

Because nobody trusts him, the vote of no-confidence (or general election) will only take place when the threat of 'no deal' Brexit is removed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steophan (Post 21882621)
and despite all his supposed bad actions maintains the confidence of the house despite not having a majority.

He keeps losing votes in Parliament - what 'confidence'? :confused:
And what happened to his majority? He sacked a load of his own party! :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steophan (Post 21882621)
He's manoeuvring towards getting Brexit next month then getting reelected - his actions are playing well to the public.

He has made no progress with the EU; his attempted suspension of Parliament has been declared illegal by the Supreme Court; a bill has been passed strongly limiting his chance of 'no deal' - what manoeuvring did you have in mind?

His approval rating is :

- 33% positive
- 48% negative
- 18% neutral


Quote:

Originally Posted by Steophan (Post 21882621)
Also, he was a better mayor of London than his predecessor or successor - although Ken did much better than expected.

Boris' failed plan to build a bridge covered with trees and flowers over the River Thames in central London cost a total of £53m. :smack:

Saint Cad 09-26-2019 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steophan (Post 21881784)
I mean, Johnson's been trying to get that to happen but Parliament won't agree.

UK Trump is the FIRST person QE2 should fire.

Steophan 09-26-2019 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Cad (Post 21882869)
UK Trump is the FIRST person QE2 should fire.

Again, he's asked Parliament to allow that but they won't. Are you really suggesting that, after the Supreme Court has reaffirmed in the strongest possible terms that Parliament is supreme, that the Queen should ignore their refusal to allow an election or to hold a confidence vote?

Parliament wants Johnson as PM, because they feel that keeping him there will lead to him being humiliated, and that is more important to them than resolving Brexit, or representing the people of the country.

Steophan 09-26-2019 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glee (Post 21882859)
He keeps losing votes in Parliament - what 'confidence'? :confused:

The only attempted no-confidence vote against him so far was rejected. Parliament, due to not expressing a lack of confidence in him, necessarily shows that they have it. I suppose it's possible a court could rule otherwise, they seem to be up for changing conventions at the moment, but it would take that to show a lack of confidence without a vote.

Whether Parliament ha confidence in him as PM has nothing to do with the opinions of any MPs, but with the action - or lack of it - of the body as a whole.

GreenWyvern 09-26-2019 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steophan (Post 21882805)
And it also destroys any claim that the Oppositon simply wants business as usual

Steophan, are you really sure you're not a Johnson supporter? Is it possible you could be one without knowing it?  😁

Considering that Parliament has already lost so many sitting days due to Johnson's unlawful attempt to close them down, it's hardly reasonable to ask them to lose even more days... in which they will indeed conduct business as usual.

DCTrekkie 09-26-2019 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steophan (Post 21882890)
Again, he's asked Parliament to allow that but they won't. Are you really suggesting that, after the Supreme Court has reaffirmed in the strongest possible terms that Parliament is supreme, that the Queen should ignore their refusal to allow an election or to hold a confidence vote?

Parliament wants Johnson as PM, because they feel that keeping him there will lead to him being humiliated, and that is more important to them than resolving Brexit, or representing the people of the country.

You're either delusional or trolling. It's been explained to you multiple times that the only reason Boris hasn't been voted out is that no-one trusts him not to break the law again and take us out with no deal. As soon as that danger has passed he will be gone. It doesn't mean he has the confidence of parliament, as evidenced by his 7-0 record of lost votes, and as the Queen has been dealing with politicians longer than many of us have been alive, I think she'll be able to work that out.

As for "representing the people of this country", you do acknowledge that the Remain camp is just as big as the Leave camp, and are entitled to the same level of representation? The Leave camp isn't even a majority of the population.


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