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-   -   Area 51: No ETs, but the truth is even weirder?! (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=611853)

BrainGlutton 06-09-2011 11:40 PM

Area 51: No ETs, but the truth is even weirder?!
 
Investigative journalist Annie Jacobsen recently published Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base. Based in large part on interviews with retired Area 51 personnel. She claims astonishing revelations -- in fact, the Secret of Roswell! And, no, she does not claim to have finally unearthed proof that We Have Made Contact. Nothing so predictable as that. As she stated in a recent NPR interview:

Quote:

On flying discs and conspiracy theories

"The UFO craze began in the summer of 1947. Several months later, the G2 intelligence, which was the Army intelligence corps at the time, spent an enormous amount of time and treasure seeking out two former Third Reich aerospace designers named Walter and Reimar Horten who had allegedly created [a] flying disc. ... American intelligence agents fanned out across Europe seeking the Horton brothers to find out if, in fact, they had made this flying disc.

"The idea behind it remains, why? Why were they looking for a flying disc? And conspiracy theorists have had their hands on this declassified file for over a decade now, and they say it proves that this flying disc came from outer space. If you read the documents, the takeaway that I found fascinating was that at the end of it, the Army admits finding the Horten brothers, and that the Horten brothers admitted their contact with the Russians and that's where the file ends. Everything after that is classified."

On why Area 51 is actually classified, according to a source

"The Horten brothers were involved in the flying disc crash in New Mexico. And that is from a single source. ... There was an unusual moment where that source became very upset and told me things that were stunning that's almost impossible to believe at first read. And that is that a flying disc really did crash in New Mexico and it was transported to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and then in 1951 it was transferred to Area 51, which is why the base is called Area 51. And the stunning part of the reveal is that my source, who I absolutely believe and worked with for 18 months on this, was one of the engineers who received the equipment and he also received the people who were in the craft.

"The people were, according to the source, were child-sized pilots, and there's a lot of debate about how old they were. He believes they were 13, although other people believe they may have been older. But this is a firsthand witness to this, and I made a decision to write about this in the very end of the book, after I take the traditional journalist form of telling you everything in the third person, I switch and I kind of lean into the reader and I say, 'Look, this is not why Area 51 is classified to the point where no one in the government will admit it exists. The reason is because what one man told me.' And then using the first person, I tell you what I was told. And there's no doubt that people are going to be upset, alarmed and skeptical of this information, but I absolutely believe the veracity of my source, and I believe it was important that I put this information out there because it is the tip of a very big iceberg."

On the Soviet human experiments her source told her about

"The child-sized aviators in this craft [that crashed in New Mexico] were the result of a Soviet human experimentation program, and they had been made to look like aliens a la Orson Welles' War of the Worlds,
and it was a warning shot over President Truman's bow, so to speak. In 1947, when this would have originally happened, the Soviets did not yet have the nuclear bomb, and Stalin and Truman were locked in horns with one another, and Stalin couldn't compete in nuclear weaponry yet, but he certainly could compete in the world of black propaganda and that was his aim, according to my source. ...

"What is firsthand information is that he worked with these bodies [of the pilots] and he was an eyewitness to the horror of seeing them and working with them. Where they actually came from is obviously the subject of debate. But if you look at the timeline with Josef Mengele, he left Auschwitz in January of 1945 and disappeared for a while, and the suggestion by the source is that Mengele had already cut his losses with the Third Reich at that point and was working with Stalin."

On why the Soviets would have undertaken such a hoax


"The plan, according to my source, was to create panic in the United States with this belief that a UFO had landed with aliens inside of it. And one of the most interesting documents is the second CIA director, Walter Bedell Smith, memos back and forth to the National Security Council talking about how the fear is that the Soviets could make a hoax against America involving a UFO and overload our early air-defense warning system, making America vulnerable to an attack."
. . . I actually think I preferred the universe that had the incomprehensible random-abductions-and-probings in it. Easier to live with.

Likely? Possible? Impossible? Or a subtle, planted smokescreen for the real story of the Nazi-Commies from Mars?! :eek:

medicated 06-09-2011 11:47 PM

Her story amounts to a whole lot of "X says that this happened, and if so, then Y might be true, which means that Z is possible."

Is that what happened? Possibly. I'd bet large sums of money against it though. The entire Area 51 story (as widely told, anyway) amounts to mythology. A good rule is that one should determine whether a phenomenon actually exists before trying to work out the causes. In this case, there's very little reason to think that there's anything that needs explaining.

GIGObuster 06-09-2011 11:56 PM

To begin with, I remember that Mengele was not keen on going to the Soviet side, he fled the areas that Russia was taking over at the end of WWII and then fled to South America, dying later on 1979 in Brazil.

It is very unlikely that the Soviets used him.

BrainGlutton 06-10-2011 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIGObuster (Post 13898937)
To begin with, I remember that Mengele was not keen on going to the Soviet side, he fled the areas that Russia was taking over at the end of WWII and then fled to South America, dying later on 1979 in Brazil.

No, actually, I think that was his clone. One of them, anyway. Not the one who invented Valium and Viagra and silicon implants, the other one.

Musicat 06-10-2011 12:11 AM

Annie Jacobsen has a very rich and active imagination which feeds her selective and credulous belief system.

Martin Hyde 06-10-2011 12:11 AM

To address such a topic seriously, I do not believe it likely the Soviets had sufficient biology expertise in the 1940s to have developed strangely mutated, small people who had the appearance of aliens. Given scientists today would probably question the possibility of doing such a thing, scientists back in the 30s and 40s with more limited resources would have an impossible time at such a task. If such a task was even possible.

What this basically does is takes a story that mostly defies the laws of physics (alien visitation--namely due to the vast distances etc), and replaces it with one that may violate anything close to what is possible with modern biology.

How would the Soviets have gone about creating these people? Selective breeding? Even if it was possible through selective breeding to create people who "appeared like aliens", how many generations of breeding would be required for such an outcome?

TriPolar 06-10-2011 12:28 AM

If the Soviets sent a flying disc with strange looking people in it to the US, why would we cover it up?

Kobal2 06-10-2011 12:44 AM

The Mengele angle alone makes this whole story spurious. He was no scientist, and his "experiments" lacked any sort of scientific value. He was a butcher, not an evil genius.

BrainGlutton 06-10-2011 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Hyde (Post 13898990)
How would the Soviets have gone about creating these people? Selective breeding? Even if it was possible through selective breeding to create people who "appeared like aliens", how many generations of breeding would be required for such an outcome?

I would guess surgery and hormones, if anything. (I doubt they could have achieved anything at all with the other approach -- Stalin's understanding of genetics was deeply confused and it was mandatory for all to share the confusion.)

Oldeb 06-10-2011 01:38 AM

Quote:

On why the Soviets would have undertaken such a hoax

"The plan, according to my source, was to create panic in the United States with this belief that a UFO had landed with aliens inside of it. And one of the most interesting documents is the second CIA director, Walter Bedell Smith, memos back and forth to the National Security Council talking about how the fear is that the Soviets could make a hoax against America involving a UFO and overload our early air-defense warning system, making America vulnerable to an attack."
This part doesn't really make much sense. If the point was to create a panic in the US why crash it in the desert where nobody is going to see it? Ram it into a major city. And why stop at just one? Even if you can't get more fake spaceships in you can keep smuggling in the your little mutants to make it look like a real invasion. Just stuff random apartments or warehouse with the corpses and start leaving anonymous tips. Leave one on some random guy's lawn to find in the morning. Even as a hoax it's not that great.

The part about the Soviets being able to ignore air-defense systems seems odd too. Wouldn't the first reaction be that parts or plans were brought in and assembled in the US? If the Soviets wanted to show they could penetrate US airspace at will they'd just fly over and drop some pamphlets. It'd be a lot cheaper then faking alien spacecraft and breeding midget mutants.

And why is it the fake alien's were made to look like those in Orson Welle's War of the Worlds?

BrainGlutton 06-10-2011 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldeb (Post 13899253)
This part doesn't really make much sense. If the point was to create a panic in the US why crash it in the desert where nobody is going to see it?

I think the theory is they were trying to rattle the U.S. government, not the general public.

Simplicio 06-10-2011 02:19 AM

I don't think I've ever seen as clear a case of a "source" messing with a credulous reporter just to see how much crazy he can get her to print as this one. Somewhere, someone is buying her source a drink in payment of the bar bet he/she just won.

Bryan Ekers 06-10-2011 03:43 AM

Coincidentally, I just finished watching a History Television show called Hitler's Stealth Fighter about the Horten brothers. Their "flying disk" was a prototype stealth fighter called the Horton Ho 229, a jet-propelled flying wing that actually looked really nifty. Mixed in with the historical info was footage of Northrop-Grumman engineers trying to rebuild the 229 for radar testing. Their consensus was the 229 would have been significantly harder for British radar to spot and its speed (~600 knots) would allow it to strike pretty much at will. Decades ahead of its time.

The reality is cool enough. Why embellish it with bullshit?

Tim@T-Bonham.net 06-10-2011 05:08 AM

Quote:

... the Soviets could make a hoax against America involving a UFO and overload our early air-defense warning system, making America vulnerable to an attack."
But just a bit earlier, she pointed out that the Soviets did not yet have a nuclear bomb, while the USA had several. So how was America 'vulnerable'? Any attack on American soil that seriously looked like it might succeed would have led to President Truman ordering a nuclear counter-attack (again).

This story doesn't make sense.

glaeken 06-10-2011 05:42 AM

It sounds like they have not even read War of the Worlds. The aliens in War of the worlds are not at all human like. This may seem like a small point but you have to wonder about the researching abilities of the author when they get something wrong that is so easily verifiable. It sounds to me like they are saying War of the Worlds to connect up with the famous Orsen Wells broadcast and just thinking the audience they are aiming at won't have read the book but do connect that broadcast with roughly those times.

Latro 06-10-2011 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers (Post 13899456)
The reality is cool enough. Why embellish it with bullshit?

Agree, up to the Soviet 'Mind games' and Mengele the story sounded good.

The Hortens built, or helped build, a US version of one of their prototypes.
One crashed at Roswell. That the pilots were small(ish) could well be. Fighter cockpits of the time were truly cramped already. Having small of stature pilots is an asset.

This part could all be true.

JacobSwan 06-10-2011 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latro (Post 13899546)
Agree, up to the Soviet 'Mind games' and Mengele the story sounded good.

The Hortens built, or helped build, a US version of one of their prototypes.
One crashed at Roswell. That the pilots were small(ish) could well be. Fighter cockpits of the time were truly cramped already. Having small of stature pilots is an asset.

This part could all be true.

Does this explain Tom Cruise in Top Gun?

Czarcasm 06-10-2011 06:23 AM

She even has the basic history of Groom Lake(Area 51 as it was designated by the CIA) wrong. Formerly used for bombing practice in WWII, in 1955 Lockheed chose the area as the best place to test the U-2 spyplane, among others. As if this wasn't enough to keep the area secret, the place shares a border with the Nevada Test Site, where over 700 nuclear tests were done. Most of the Groom Lake area is taken up by runways of various sizes, which is what you expect of a place designed to test aircraft.

glaeken 06-10-2011 06:53 AM

What I find odd is I would have thought anyone with a slight interest in this area would be familiar with the Horten flying wing. The author acts like their audience won't have heard of the Horten's or the experimental aircraft and this is some new previously unknown thing.


I can totally see how from some angles the flying wing came to be mistake for a flying disc as well and I would have thought this was obvious to anyone who gets a look at a pictures of one so there really is no need at all for there to be another secret Horten aircraft beyond the flying wing to cover the flying disc angle.

Death of Rats 06-10-2011 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Hyde (Post 13898990)
How would the Soviets have gone about creating these people? Selective breeding? Even if it was possible through selective breeding to create people who "appeared like aliens", how many generations of breeding would be required for such an outcome?

Please. you are not fooling anyone. We have all seen some form of Star Trek, we know all you need to do is resequence something's DNA and instantly turn it into something else and then change the DNA back to restore them to reset for the next episode. Sheesh. Like the Soviets couldn't do that. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacobSwan (Post 13899558)
Does this explain Tom Cruise in Top Gun?

Honestly, yes. Cruise is closer in size to the prototypical fighter pilot, It is Tim Robbins and Anthony Edwards who are about as believeable as this Roswell story.

El_Kabong 06-10-2011 08:43 AM

The Hortens' postwar careers appear to be fairly well documented and AFAIK there isn't a shred of evidence they ever spent any time in, or did any design work for, the Soviet Union. At best, it might be possible that Soviet designers constructed aircraft based on Horten designs from WWII, but there's pretty much nothing but hearsay as evidence for that.

An Arky 06-10-2011 08:59 AM

Why, why, WHY do people have such a bugaboo about Area 51? It's really simple. The US has a Dept. of Defense. As such, part of their charter is to do research and development of new ways to be more effective. Some of this stuff is kind of out of the box, which is one way of developing new ideas. Naturally, this has to be done in secret. That's. It. There's really nothing else to see here, and anybody who starts talking UFO B.S. is automatically excluded from serious consideration.

And I assure you, "they" haven't gotten to me. :rolleyes:

Justin_Bailey 06-10-2011 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Arky (Post 13899808)
Why, why, WHY do people have such a bugaboo about Area 51? It's really simple. The US has a Dept. of Defense. As such, part of their charter is to do research and development of new ways to be more effective. Some of this stuff is kind of out of the box, which is one way of developing new ideas. Naturally, this has to be done in secret. That's. It. There's really nothing else to see here, and anybody who starts talking UFO B.S. is automatically excluded from serious consideration.

Why? Because of a very short conversation the government has with anyone who asks about it. You can't see how this would cause people to ask "what's really going out there?":

UFO Nut: So what goes on at the air force base at Groom Lake.

What the Government Official Should Say: Top secret military testing and training. I can't go into details.

What the Government Official Actually Says: No such base exists.

BrainGlutton 06-10-2011 09:18 AM

If I were in charge of the covering-up, I would leak all kinds of stories about Area 51, and keep the flying saucers stashed in an old warehouse in the Brooklyn Navy Yard.

An Arky 06-10-2011 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Bailey (Post 13899820)
Why? Because of a very short conversation the government has with anyone who asks about it. You can't see how this would cause people to ask "what's really going out there?":

UFO Nut: So what goes on at the air force base at Groom Lake.

What the Government Official Should Say: Top secret military testing and training. I can't go into details.

What the Government Official Actually Says: No such base exists.

It's basic protocol not to comment on such matters or to deny their existence. If they say, "Top secret military testing and training. I can't go into details.", that confirms both the existence and purpose, which is in violation of that basic protocol. That's why they don't do that, silly as it seems.

Justin_Bailey 06-10-2011 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Arky (Post 13899891)
It's basic protocol not to comment on such matters or to deny their existence. If they say, "Top secret military testing and training. I can't go into details.", that confirms both the existence and purpose, which is in violation of that basic protocol. That's why they don't do that, silly as it seems.

But that's what causes people to go nuts. Denying something even exists that people can see from a distance makes it look some serious shit is going down. So when you later come out and say you were just testing some new plane, people are confused as to why you couldn't just say that at the time.

You see five-year olds do it all the time. They want the toy their sibling is playing with. They don't really care about the why, they just want it. But as soon as they get it, they don't care anymore.

And so it is with the nuts. They see a semi-secret base out in the middle of the desert and have a simple question. They get totally stonewalled and then wait louder. But once they get told the truth ("The Stealth Bomber was tested there"), they don't really give a shit.

An Arky 06-10-2011 09:37 AM

Well, it's a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. I don't think it should be the government's position to kowtow to nutbags.

Speak to me Maddie! 06-10-2011 10:37 AM

That story is a mess. The whole Mengele part just puts it way past the pale. Mengele wasn't some sort of amoral genius scientist. He was just a sadist who got off on torturing children and prisoners. Even if he were capable of anything like mutating people it doesn't make sense. The pilots were "at least 13 years old". So did Mengele start working with the soviets on this project in 1932? Because if he waited until 1945 he had about two years to turn some perfectly healthy 10 year old kids into super-mutants capable of flying an experimental aircraft across the globe. Or maybe he just brought some of own own homemade mutant children along with him after he left Auschwitz. You know, like a carnival sideshow following him around war-torn Germany with the Red Army just behind.

So Stalin has a ridiculously advanced stealth aircraft capable of flying long distances, manned by Nazi mutant children. Maybe he should build a whole fleet of these planes and make a show of power. Nah, a better idea is to fly the machine into the middle of the desert and crash it. In fact, crash it right next to an American experimental aircraft range where no one will see it, and where a bunch of other experimental aircraft are seen on a regular basis.

The whole story is so stupid it has to be a joke. Or maybe this is just a really awesome form of alternative marketing for a future Spielberg movie.

I tuned in for Michael Medved's interview with the author. He flat out accused her of making up the story to sell books. He said it was a shame because 99% of the book was a well-researched and interesting piece on the history of Area-51, with facts to back it up and named sources. Then tacked on to the end of the book, literally in the last few pages, came this hogwash. He suspects either she or her publisher realized that the book wouldn't sell so she went back in and added the silliness.

Kozmik 06-10-2011 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Arky (Post 13899808)
Why, why, WHY do people have such a bugaboo about Area 51? It's really simple. The US has a Dept. of Defense. As such, part of their charter is to do research and development of new ways to be more effective.

The United States has has a Department of Defense only since after 1945, after World War II. The charter you refer to is probably the National Security Act of 1947. That same year, 1947, the first Secretary of Defense, James V. Forrestal, was named. Two years later, James V. Forrestal commited suicide on while staying at Bethesda Naval Hospital for psychiatric treatment.

njtt 06-10-2011 02:07 PM

(Post 1945) Nazis and aliens are really the same thing.

zamboniracer 06-10-2011 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Arky (Post 13899808)

And I assure you, "they" haven't gotten to me. :rolleyes:

But if they HAD gotten to you, then naturally you'd have no choice but to deny it here on this board. ;)

CalMeacham 06-10-2011 02:26 PM

I've just started reading this, and haven't gotten to the Mengele part yet. I'll suspend full judgment until I've finished the book, but she strikes me as hard-digging yet credulous. She writes about the Horten brothers designing crescent-shaped "flying wings", which is credible (and I've seen pictures of them), but then extrapolatesto them building flying saucers for Russia, which seems very implausible. That's a BIG leap from Flying Wings to Flying Saucers, and we don't have any credible flying saucers now, even with sixty years of private engineering and engineering in other countries. My understanding is that Flying Wings themselves are incredibly unstable, which is why they weren't used practically, and that the B-2 is only flyable because it has computer correction to prevent instabilities from making the plane crash.

Furthermore, she incorrectly cites Kenneh Arnold, the original "Flying Saucer" reporter from 1947. His original eport said that what he saw were cresent-shaped (which would actually bolster her case if she was saying that he saw experimental Soviet ships near Mt. Rainier), not saucer-shaped. He changed his story later to bring it in line with everyone's expectations.

Add to that her description of saucer-shaped craft hovering and flying around near Groom Lake, and that they had Cyrillic Lettering on them, and my own belief in her accuracy is severely strained.

There have been years of reporting on the Roswell Incident in the Skeptical Inquirer and elsewhere that make an extremely good case that this was, in fact, a SkyHook balloon 9not a mere weather balloon), but she seems to swallow the idea that this is a cover-up story pretty completely.



I predict a lot of controversy about this book, at least inthe pages of SI.

Chronos 06-10-2011 03:22 PM

Quoth Bryan Eckers:
Quote:

Their "flying disk" was a prototype stealth fighter called the Horton Ho 229, a jet-propelled flying wing that actually looked really nifty.
So in other words, Horton Doesn't Hear a Ho?

And Justin_Bailey, you're assuming that the government considers fueling whacko conspiracy theories to be a bad thing. Quite the contrary, they actually encourage it, as it makes their job considerably easier. The more attention is focused on aliens and flying saucers and Mengelian midgets, the less is left over to focus on U2s and F117s and nuke-listening microphones.

scissorhead 06-10-2011 04:53 PM

Sigma - 4.

Czarcasm 06-10-2011 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scissorhead (Post 13901919)
Sigma - 4.

The leech flies at dawn.

Tim@T-Bonham.net 06-10-2011 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Bailey (Post 13899918)
But that's what causes people to go nuts.

Well, no -- they were pretty much already nuts.

Justin_Bailey 06-10-2011 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos (Post 13901551)
And Justin_Bailey, you're assuming that the government considers fueling whacko conspiracy theories to be a bad thing. Quite the contrary, they actually encourage it, as it makes their job considerably easier. The more attention is focused on aliens and flying saucers and Mengelian midgets, the less is left over to focus on U2s and F117s and nuke-listening microphones.

Too true.

ralph124c 06-10-2011 07:21 PM

Did the Horten brothers develop that cool Nazi plane in "Raiders of the Lost Ark"?
Really, this thing sounds like it came from the pages of the "National Inquirer".
No supporting evidence, and a mountain of BS:mad:

Miller 06-10-2011 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalMeacham (Post 13901275)
Add to that her description of saucer-shaped craft hovering and flying around near Groom Lake, and that they had Cyrillic Lettering on them, and my own belief in her accuracy is severely strained.

Wait... the Russians specifically bread midget faux-alien pilots as part of their plan to panic the US government into thinking we were being invaded by aliens... and then went and put Cyrillic writing all over their faux-alien flying saucers?

I think I may have detected a minor flaw in their diabolical ploy.

An Arky 06-10-2011 10:12 PM

Mmmmmm...breaded midget faux-alien pilots. I like to dip them in remoulade sauce.

XT 06-10-2011 10:26 PM

Did they broast the faux-alien midget? I LOVE broasted faux-alien midget with panko bread crumbs. I'd recommend a nice fruity white wine to go with that as well. Bon appetit!

-XT

CalMeacham 06-12-2011 11:34 AM

Okay, I finished reading the book. After the initial bit about the Horten brothers, it becomes what appears to be a sober history of Area 51, with parts of it coincididing with what I've read elsewhere. She has sections that seem to be based on only one or two sources that claim to be The First REvelation Anywhere! that I can't verify or debunk.

Twice at least she screws up on minor points that annoy me . One of these is the claim that the James Bond movie Diamonds are Forever depicts a faked moon-landing conspiracy. It doesn't in 1971, when it came out, nobody believed the moon landings had been faked. It was clearly depicting a simulation or training exercise. As even She admits, the "No-Moon-Landing" craziness started three years later in 1974. The other part was where she refers to the "Caspian Sea Monster" as an "ekranopian". It's "EkranoPLAN", as in "plane" (something the neo-James Bond novel Devil May Care got right. She needs to brush up on her James Bond. My point is that less than 60 seconds on the internet would have set both these errors right.It does make you wonder how accurate the rest of her book is.

It's at the end of the booki, where she revisits the flying saucer business, that she gets hit by the galloping crazies again. Stalin got the Horton brothers to build an unprecedented flying saucer with unprecedented stealth technology (the WWII carbon-in-glue would not, I suspect, have worked all that well on a long-track flight with more up-to-date radar) and unprecedented remote-piloting and unprecedented hover capability and unprecedented high-speed flight with genetically- or surgically-altered people inside and crashed this in the New Mexico desert. Right. Several times over.


And in all the time since, nobody outside the US or Russia has duplicated this flying saucer or the hover technology and great flying capability. And no one, even in the US or Russia, has thought to use this hover capability for the many great technical and life-saving purposes it could be used for, it apparently being felt more important to Keep It Under Wraps.



And Stalin's purpose in this was to create a "Man from Mars/War of the Worlds" scare to set off a panic in the US? Then why the hell did he put Cyrillic lettering on the craft?




This is literally a story out of science fiction. I'm not talking about the graphic novel verwsion of The Watchmen, and its many literary forbears. More explicitly, it's in Quatermass and the Pit (and its US featureversion, Five Milliojn Years to Earth), where the (ironically, real in the film) alien spacecraft with its aliens and proto-humans are dismissed by the military officer as a panic-inducing propaganda trick by the Third Reich.




Sorry. There are so many holes in this story, you could fly a flying saucer through them.

BrainGlutton 06-12-2011 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller (Post 13902912)
Wait... the Russians specifically bread midget faux-alien pilots as part of their plan to panic the US government into thinking we were being invaded by aliens... and then went and put Cyrillic writing all over their faux-alien flying saucers?

I think I may have detected a minor flaw in their diabolical ploy.

Considering that we're dealing with Russians, that actually makes the story more plausible. ;)

QuarkChild 06-12-2011 01:31 PM

Sounds like a Clive Cussler novel. And probably is about as true.

Jackmannii 06-12-2011 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos (Post 13901551)
And Justin_Bailey, you're assuming that the government considers fueling whacko conspiracy theories to be a bad thing. Quite the contrary, they actually encourage it, as it makes their job considerably easier. The more attention is focused on aliens and flying saucers and Mengelian midgets, the less is left over to focus on U2s and F117s and nuke-listening microphones.

That's what they want you to think. Convince 'em that the crazy shit is crazy, then they'll be distracted by ordinary technology and the Mengelian midgets can sneak right on by.

Has anyone else realized that the new Jacobsen revelations almost certainly explain the disappearance of Flight 19 over the Bermuda Triangle? The pilots were tracking a Horton-designed Soviet saucer but had to invent that cover-up about navigational problems to fool listeners. Then when they caught up with the saucer they were teleported to the Soviet Union and de-aged/miniaturized so they'd forget what they'd seen.

My source tells me this is on the level, and cannot be refuted.

Do Not Taunt 06-12-2011 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalMeacham (Post 13901275)
I predict a lot of controversy about this book, at least inthe pages of SI.

Does SI does a special issue on this topic, like their swimsuit issue?

CalMeacham 06-12-2011 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Do Not Taunt (Post 13907549)
Does SI does a special issue on this topic, like their swimsuit issue?

I've seen many SI contributors, and pictures of many others. I don't think I'd want to see a Swimsuit Issue.

GIGObuster 06-12-2011 06:43 PM

For those who are wondering: SI does not refer only to Sports Illustrated, it is also an acronym for the Skeptical Inquirer magazine.

BrainGlutton 06-12-2011 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIGObuster (Post 13908015)
For those who are wondering: SI does not refer only to Sports Illustrated, it is also an acronym for the Skeptical Inquirer magazine.

Watch for the cover story of their next issue: "Debunking the Orlando 'Magic'"!

Do Not Taunt 06-13-2011 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIGObuster (Post 13908015)
For those who are wondering: SI does not refer only to Sports Illustrated, it is also an acronym for the Skeptical Inquirer magazine.

I was joking, but you knew that, right?


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