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-   -   Mass Effect 3 [Massive Spoilers] (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=642115)

Mr. Kobayashi 02-14-2012 09:32 PM

Mass Effect 3 [Massive Spoilers]
 
I started a thread on ME3 over a year ago, when all we had was a teaser trailer. Now, we have a heck of a lot more. Specifically, a demo (out for Xbox 360 and PC, coming soon to PS3) - anyone checked it out yet?

The release date is a few short weeks away - 6th March in America, 9th in Europe.

I'll be picking it up for Xbox 360, since my saves are on that medium, creating a direct chain back to the character and decisions I made in 2007 (my Earthborn Adept Sole Survivor, generally paragon but with a bit of a rough edge), which is absolutely insane and unique in video game history as far as I can tell. It's also unique in that your squadmates from previous games can be killed - if they are, they won't return for the third game. My only worries are that I'll be unable to pick out the exact save I want to import and remembering my BioWare account details for future DLC and stuff.

The only bad news is that on the PC it looks like you need EA's Origins, which can generously be described as a Steam knock-off. I'm watching a let's play of the demo since I can't be bothered with that nonsense, looks to continue the tradition of the trilogy improving with each instalment.



Moderator's Note:
This thread gets pretty full of endgame spoilers very quickly. If you're still playing through the game, I sincerely recommend starting a new thread if you want an unspoiled discussion of the game. Read on at your own peril.

- Gukumatz,
Game Room Moderator

Headrush042 02-14-2012 09:38 PM

I'm really conflicted. I want to continue to support Bioware, and I love the ME series. At the same time, I really don't want to reward EA for being draconian idiots.

Miller 02-14-2012 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kobayashi (Post 14775301)
I'll be picking it up for Xbox 360, since my saves are on that medium, creating a direct chain back to the character and decisions I made in 2007 (my Earthborn Adept Sole Survivor, generally paragon but with a bit of a rough edge), which is absolutely insane and unique in video game history as far as I can tell.

Not really. It used to be a pretty common feature in computer RPGs. The SSI gold box Dungeons and Dragons games allowed you to port from one game to the next. Bard's Tale did the same, as did Might and Magic and, IIRC, Wizardry.

Mr. Kobayashi 02-14-2012 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller (Post 14775389)
Not really. It used to be a pretty common feature in computer RPGs. The SSI gold box Dungeons and Dragons games allowed you to port from one game to the next. Bard's Tale did the same, as did Might and Magic and, IIRC, Wizardry.

They import decisions from one game to another? Importing a superficial character I imagine is one thing, but the continuity and work that goes it into making the world in one game react to your decision in another quite another. The lead designer has said that ME3 was comparatively easy story-wise since they didn't need to leave any dangling threads to be picked up.

Watching the demo -
SPOILER:
Captain Kirrahe's back! Hold. The. Line.


Seems that they're also going for different gameplay styles; Action where the story is automatic, Role-Playing which is apparently like traditional ME and Story where the combat takes a back seat.

Miller 02-14-2012 11:40 PM

Well, no, those old RPGs were pretty story-light, so there generally weren't any plot decisions that needed to be imported: each game could only end in one way. Mass Effect is certainly taking the concept to a new level, but it's not a unique or unprecedented idea.

On the other hand, the Gold Box games, at least, actually imported your entire character: items and experience points were retained between games, without forcing a reset or depowering on your characters. If you were a sixth level fighter with a +2 longsword at the end of the first game, you'd be a sixth level fighter with a +2 longsword at the start of the second. Which was also pretty cool.

Terminus Est 02-14-2012 11:50 PM

In Baldur's Gate, if you kept the Golden Pantaloons when you imported your character into Shadows of Amn, and then managed to acquire the Silver Pantaloons in the latter game, and then found the Bronze Pantalettes in the Throne of Bhaal expansion, you'd be able to craft something very special. The Baldur's Gate series was, of course, developed by Bioware who also developed Mass Effect.

As for Mass Effect 3, I'm conflicted about the whole Origins mess. I had the EA Downloader (pre-Origin) for some reason or another. I tried updating it to Origins, but the installer crashed. I'm taking that as a sign.

Jragon 02-15-2012 12:02 AM

Valve did this whole fiasco years ago with tying Half-Life 2 to their Steam software, even if you bought the disc. EA isn't exactly treading new ground. I mean, Origin sucks balls, but you can't fault them for doing something that Valve did years ago (back when Steam was similarly shitty).

Crowbar of Irony +3 02-15-2012 03:39 AM

I am downloading the demo now. I will probably be able to get a gameplay report in an hour or so.

Smapti 02-15-2012 03:39 AM

Personally, my only beef with Origin is that EA has no right to be using the name of Lord British's old company after the way they killed the Ultima franchise, burned the corpse, and pissed on the ashes.

That being said, i'm presently replaying through Mass Effect 1 and 2 in preparation for the thrid, because I want a save file that's fresh in my mind. My Shepard is female, a Ruthless Colonist who romanced Liara, let the Council die, made Anderson head of the all-human Council, and allowed Cerberus to take control of the Collector base.

Crowbar of Irony +3 02-15-2012 06:41 AM

Just played the demo. It's more or less the same Mass Effect, with some changes to the control. The normal movement speed is very slow, so you have to dash more often. However dashing makes it hard to control your direction. I guess that will make the game harder.

The demo has three presets - action, role-playing and story. That affects dialogue and the difficulty of combat. Not sure if that's going to end up inside the final game.

The action feels somewhat different. I find myself using the right mouse button to aim more often, and you are required to flank more. The melee kill move is nice.

You can customize your ability more now, usually choosing between more AoE or more damage or less recharge. Biotics have longer cooldown now, so you can't just spam them.

Headrush042 02-15-2012 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jragon (Post 14775659)
Valve did this whole fiasco years ago with tying Half-Life 2 to their Steam software, even if you bought the disc. EA isn't exactly treading new ground. I mean, Origin sucks balls, but you can't fault them for doing something that Valve did years ago (back when Steam was similarly shitty).

Yes, I can. If EA wants to compete with Steam, that's fine. However, competition implies that they have a product of similar quality and they'll drive each other to make improvements. So far, Origins has been buggier, raised more privacy red flags, and has a fucked up EULA. They're not only treading ground that Steam managed to improve years ago, they've actually taken a step backwards from that.

FinnAgain 02-15-2012 07:30 AM

Already preordered the collector's edition. Transferred my old save games to my new xbox. Hope I nabbed the right ones, or I may need to re-transfer. In any case, mega excited.

Kiros 02-15-2012 08:09 AM

I'm actually pretty miffed about the whole Origins thing, but I'm sure I'll be there the day it comes out either way.

I'd love to play through the first two again, or at least the second one, before then, but there's just no way I'll have time. I will have to check and make sure all of my saves are in order, though, since I've upgraded my PC since the last time I played 2.

wolf in second hand clothing 02-15-2012 11:44 AM

I played through the demo on xbox 360 a couple of times. Sadly, they did not include a sniper rifle for my infiltrator to play with, but I quite enjoyed using the tatical cloak with the new heavy melee omni blade attacks. I like the system of having ability cool downs tied to equipment weight, so you can run around with just a pistol and spam biotic powers, or stomp in with a full arsenal and rely more on your guns and armor.

Kinthalis 02-15-2012 02:39 PM

Guys, remember that masseffectsaves.com exists!

You can download almost any type of save from there if you need to.

Also you can use your PC saves on console and your console saves on PC with some free converting software.

I played the single player demo and tried the multi-briefly. Going to try it again tonight hopefully.

I was dissapointed in a couple of ways:

First, again no support for gamepads on PC. For shame Bioware. Then we are still getting the low rez console textures. Never mind that tiny Eastern European game devs can manage WAY better textures, Bioware can't be assed.

Also the story choices seemed quite limited. Like they were missing options, and some places that should allow you choice instead just played out like cutscenes.

It's been confirmed by Bio, however, that indeed some of the story/dialogue options had been cut for the demo. So I'm hopeful that part of the experience will be just as good or even better than ME2.


Origin? Meh, who cares. I'm at the point where that platform isn't going to stop me from enjoying a game I've been looking forward to. I'm already signed up, I already own BF3, so I just need to hit the download button and then hit play.

I would prefer if it were on Steam, but it's hardly a big deal at all.

My last small nitpick are the animations. Specially running. They seem... off. Stiff, unnatural?

I liked the way the combat felt. I was playing at insane level, which felt a lot like playing a fairly difficult shooter. A couple fo hits and you're down, so cover, and tactics play an important role. more so than in the past, IMHO. You need to flank and use your team mates for cover fire.

I like the system of cover in ME3. The arrow indicating where you will go helps a lot. Jumping over obstacles by double tapping cover is intuitive and smooth.

I also like the new options in thee skill trees. Allows for greater customization.

All in all, I'm happy with what the demo promises for the full retail release.

'course I'm going to be traveling in Germany the week of release so I'll miss out for a bit. Hopefully you guys cna pop in and talk about it some more so I can read about your experiences!

Tom Scud 02-15-2012 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller (Post 14775609)
Well, no, those old RPGs were pretty story-light, so there generally weren't any plot decisions that needed to be imported: each game could only end in one way. Mass Effect is certainly taking the concept to a new level, but it's not a unique or unprecedented idea.

Haven't played the games, but judging from the wikipedia summary it sounds like the later Wizardry games had plot points that were carried over from game to game. (Also like their plot was totally crazy, but anyway).

Ike Witt 02-15-2012 03:50 PM

How do you crouch?

Ike Witt 02-15-2012 05:03 PM

Also did anyone notice default female Sheppard is different than dfS from ME1 & ME2?

Kinthalis 02-15-2012 05:37 PM

The multi-player right now is co-op only where it's a squad of 4 (I think, I haven't seen more than that) vs waves of dastardly cerberus operatives.


It's fun. You gotta work together, specially in later waves. But unless there's some competitive play and better maps, and more players, I don't me doing this for long.

shijinn 02-15-2012 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike Witt (Post 14778466)
Also did anyone notice default female Sheppard is different than dfS from ME1 & ME2?

it's how they take a dump on fans of ME1 & 2. oh, you bought both games on Steam? too bad, you have to buy it from our shitty service instead. oh, you really want fem Shepard for the intro? sure, but we'll replace her with someone else.

Hoopy Frood 02-15-2012 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smapti (Post 14775949)
That being said, i'm presently replaying through Mass Effect 1 and 2 in preparation for the thrid, because I want a save file that's fresh in my mind. My Shepard is female, a Ruthless Colonist who romanced Liara, let the Council die, made Anderson head of the all-human Council, and allowed Cerberus to take control of the Collector base.

I'm going to have to do that anyway since our XBOX hard drive had a catastrophic failure.

Though, I'll probably just play on easy just to get through the games and get the hidden save files saved off. I've already completed both 1 & 2 on Veteran and was even possessed to do 2 on Insane. (Yes, I'm masochistic.)

Mr. Kobayashi 02-15-2012 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shijinn (Post 14778604)
it's how they take a dump on fans of ME1 & 2. oh, you bought both games on Steam? too bad, you have to buy it from our shitty service instead. oh, you really want fem Shepard for the intro? sure, but we'll replace her with someone else.

FemShep's new look is due to a competition BioWare held on Facebook, they uploaded a load of faces and the one with the most likes was the winner. I prefered blonde FemShep myself, looked like my super-paragon engineer war hero Shep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller (Post 14775609)
Well, no, those old RPGs were pretty story-light, so there generally weren't any plot decisions that needed to be imported: each game could only end in one way. Mass Effect is certainly taking the concept to a new level, but it's not a unique or unprecedented idea.

Um...I meant to say recent video game history. Yeah.

Incidentally, Ash and Kaiden look a lot better than they did in ME1, Ash in particular. Anyone notice the
SPOILER:
Spectre
insignia on their armour?

Kinthalis 02-15-2012 07:12 PM

Ahh, no, I hadn't noticed Mr Kobayashi. Keen eye, sir.

Interesting. I guess humanity really is starting to to rise to prominence.

If anyone wants to try multi-player with me, hit me up. I'm Kinthalis on Origin as well.

Quimby 02-15-2012 07:17 PM

What is all this talk about a new look, I thought I remember creating my Fem Shep in the first one and she imported.

Speaking of, does anyone know if you have to import the saves from both 1 and 2 or if you imported 1 into 2 are the saves from 2 enough?

Mr. Kobayashi 02-15-2012 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quimby (Post 14778868)
What is all this talk about a new look, I thought I remember creating my Fem Shep in the first one and she imported.

For default FemShep, like how Vanderloo is the default male Shep.

Quote:

Speaking of, does anyone know if you have to import the saves from both 1 and 2 or if you imported 1 into 2 are the saves from 2 enough?
Just 2, if ME2's loading screens are to be believed.

shijinn 02-15-2012 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kobayashi (Post 14778788)
FemShep's new look is due to a competition BioWare held on Facebook, they uploaded a load of faces and the one with the most likes was the winner. ...

did they include the original default one as a choice?

Unauthorized Cinnamon 02-19-2012 03:02 PM

It looks to me like the first prefab alternative FemShep is very similar, if not identical to the default FemShep from 2.

Let me take a moment to bitch about how much I hate the new default FemShep. "Oh, saving the galaxy can wait while I dye my hair and apply more eyeliner!" Eh, at least I can import my gal from 2, or make a decent looking space marine on my own.

So anyway, Phoenix and I are now playing multiplayer: UCinnamon and Dark3Phoenix on Origin (*spits*). It sucked at first, but I can see multiplayer getting extremely addictive as you gain access to more cool stuff!

I've been dragging my feet on actually ordering the game, but I know I'll buy it. ME2 rocked so hard, I can't resist. If they can speed up the walk speed and make the camera behave when you run, I'll be satisfied. I'm already LOLing at the Princeface Kaiden gave me when we met in the hall, so I'm pretty sure the character interactions will be fun, and the enemy AI is really impressive compared to the previous game. Surely worth $60, right?

Ike Witt 02-19-2012 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shijinn (Post 14779058)
did they include the original default one as a choice?

I found that if you selected that you wanted to customize FemShep, the face that appears is the default from 1&2.

Quimby 02-19-2012 10:06 PM

Anyone else see the trailer during The Walking Dead? I am wondering just how much of the game will take place on Earth. I hope not too much. I like going to other planets.

Miller 02-19-2012 10:12 PM

Do people actually play with the pre-fabbed characters?

Grumman 02-20-2012 03:44 AM

Having watched a video of the first ten minutes of the demo, I'm happy with just sticking with the first game. In the first game, people being unconvinced about the Reaper threat made perfect sense. I could respect that. Then everything went to hell.

SPOILER:
Ignoring the superweapon that attacked the Citadel, giving Shepard shit about being reliant on the criminals that revivified her corpse and continually rubbing it in her face? And then confiscating Shepard's ship which isn't even Alliance property, and relieving her of duty and still not doing anything about the superweapon? Fuck off.

Jragon 02-20-2012 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller (Post 14791765)
Do people actually play with the pre-fabbed characters?

I do, I usually play with the character creation tools, but everyone I make in ME looks so ugly it hurts, the pre-fabs look better to me (though I do pick my own class, background etc).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumman (Post 14792243)
Having watched a video of the first ten minutes of the demo, I'm happy with just sticking with the first game. In the first game, people being unconvinced about the Reaper threat made perfect sense. I could respect that. Then everything went to hell.

SPOILER:
Ignoring the superweapon that attacked the Citadel, giving Shepard shit about being reliant on the criminals that revivified her corpse and continually rubbing it in her face? And then confiscating Shepard's ship which isn't even Alliance property, and relieving her of duty and still not doing anything about the superweapon? Fuck off.

I joke I (and everyone else) keep making is:

Council: "Help! Shepard! The Reapers are attacking the Citadel!"
Shepard: "Ah, yes, 'Reapers' *hang up on them*"

Johnny Angel 02-21-2012 08:06 AM

Look, you have to look at it from the Council's perspective. Shephard's got to be wrong about something sooner or later.

So, I played the demo. I'm a PC user generally, but I'm picking up the game for the 360 because somebody gave me one and because everybody available to play multiplayer with me will be on the 360. The first thing I noticed about the 360 version was that the controls were retarded and nobody could possibly actually play this stupid game. Later, somehow the controls got less stupid. It would still be better to have mouse and keyboard.

I'd like a little more background. How did Shepard come to no longer be with Cerberus? And back with the Alliance, but apparently forcibly retired? And what exactly happened when Cerberus decided to re-flip the bitch switch and dedicate themselves again to full-time evil? And how is this affected by your decision in the last game to either let them have the Collector base or not?

On this multiplayer system, I notice that there's a 'store' where you purchase upgrades for your avatar with 'credits'. Is 'credits' something you buy from EA with money? Because I have a sinking feeling that this is a huge scam.

FinnAgain 02-21-2012 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel (Post 14795801)
How did Shepard come to no longer be with Cerberus?

Most likely answer:
SPOILER:
Didn't steal the Collector base, did steal the Normandy II.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel (Post 14795801)
And back with the Alliance, but apparently forcibly retired?

SPOILER:
Stopped a first wave of the Reaper invasion but had to destroy a Batarian colony in order to do so.

Unauthorized Cinnamon 02-21-2012 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel (Post 14795801)
On this multiplayer system, I notice that there's a 'store' where you purchase upgrades for your avatar with 'credits'. Is 'credits' something you buy from EA with money? Because I have a sinking feeling that this is a huge scam.

While I bet EA will gladly trade you credits for cash as well, you do earn credits simply by playing. I've got a level 16 Engineer, and in the course of leveling up to that point, I've been able to buy at least 4 "Veteran" packs, and probably a dozen "Recruit" packs. So earning credits by playing is perfectly viable.

It does suck majorly when you're level 1 or 2, and you can't even heal yourself because you haven't bought any medi-gel yet! But I've found I'm well supplied with extra ammo, health and shield boosts, and even a nifty rocket launcher now that I'm up and running.

OH! And BTW I gave the wrong Origin ID for Phoenix - it's dark2phoenix. Woops!

Ferret Herder 02-21-2012 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel (Post 14795801)
And what exactly happened when Cerberus decided to re-flip the bitch switch and dedicate themselves again to full-time evil?

I'm pretty sure this was confirmed by various promotional articles for the game:
SPOILER:
In ME2, you encounter a few missions where you learn that prolonged exposure to Reaper tech makes you crazy, and eventually can brainwash you into helping the Reapers. One memorable recording featured a scientist who'd been studying a dead Reaper - with him and his crew stationed inside that "ship" - raving about how dead gods aren't sleeping, or something to that effect. Cerberus wanted the dead Reaper at the end of ME2, so my guess is: give them the ship and they go wacko and get absorbed, don't give it to them and they find some other Reaper tech with the same result. Either way they only want you dead or alive, to add to their system as a weapon.

Tixenfleaz 02-21-2012 12:51 PM

After my last computer went boom, I was able to salvage my last saved game from ME2. Anyone know if I'll be able to plug it into ME3? I really don't want to start with a new Shep.

Ike Witt 02-21-2012 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tixenfleaz (Post 14796812)
After my last computer went boom, I was able to salvage my last saved game from ME2. Anyone know if I'll be able to plug it into ME3? I really don't want to start with a new Shep.

You should be able to. You could plug in a half finished ME1 character into ME2 and go. It even allowed you to check items that you may have missed, IIRC.

Kinthalis 02-21-2012 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tixenfleaz (Post 14796812)
After my last computer went boom, I was able to salvage my last saved game from ME2. Anyone know if I'll be able to plug it into ME3? I really don't want to start with a new Shep.

Yeah it should work.

If it doesn't for some reason, you can always head on over to masseffectsaves.com



Also peoples, the first piece of DLC has been outed.

Called "From Ashes", it features a:

SPOILER:


Prothean squad member!


Mr. Kobayashi 02-22-2012 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinthalis (Post 14797590)
Also peoples, the first piece of DLC has been outed.

Called "From Ashes", it features a:

SPOILER:


Prothean squad member!


That is absolutely mental, although for the last in the trilogy I can expect them throwing in everything. I expect we'll see Tali's face too. The downside is that you'll have endless people bitching that they didn't like the results and that it should have remained a mystery.

SPOILER:
Since the Prothean pretty much has to be from some sort of stasis, anyone think it will be Ksad Ishan, the head of the Ilos facility (who Vigil's personality was based off)? Calling it now.


Only problem is I have to have that, which means faffing about with Xbox Live and BioWare accounts or whatever they have. Wish there was a retail or bundled version.

Josh Winepuck 02-22-2012 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kobayashi (Post 14798953)

Only problem is I have to have that, which means faffing about with Xbox Live and BioWare accounts or whatever they have. Wish there was a retail or bundled version.

Heard it will be part of the Collector's Edition.

FinnAgain 02-24-2012 08:58 AM

There is a promise of an extra char on the collector's edition but no confirmation that I've seen yet that it's Prothean.

Grumman 02-24-2012 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinnAgain (Post 14806056)
There is a promise of an extra char on the collector's edition but no confirmation that I've seen yet that it's Prothean.

It's a Prothean. They accidentally put the DLC on that X-Box thing (X-Box Live?), and it said in no uncertain terms that it was a Prothean.

...with a Jamaican accent.

FinnAgain 02-24-2012 10:04 AM

Ah cool, thanks. Glad now that I preordered through Amazon half a year ago, since now they're sold out of collector's edition preorders. Not such how I feel about Jar Jar the Prothean, though...

Mr. Kobayashi 02-24-2012 10:49 PM

SPOILER:
BioWare! STOP! YOU VIOLATED THE LORE! Pay the court a fine or serve your sentence. Your concept art is now forfeit.

That's not a Prothean, it's a domesticated Collector! That's a Prothean. That's a (huskified) Prothean. That's a Prothean. This guy? Not a Prothean! Where'd all his tentacles go? Also; why the piss are Collectors back when I blew their base into tiny little pieces in ME2?!

FinnAgain 02-24-2012 11:05 PM

Eh... after 50,000 years it's perfectly possible that there was a bottleneck somewhere and mutants became the new normal.

Also it's perfectly plausible that the Collectors had more than one single outpost.

Mr. Kobayashi 02-24-2012 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinnAgain (Post 14806326)
Ah cool, thanks. Glad now that I preordered through Amazon half a year ago, since now they're sold out of collector's edition preorders. Not such how I feel about Jar Jar the Prothean, though...

He sounds like this, which blows my mind. I thought he'd sound more like Vigil, more light and airy (maybe a bit more down - he's the last of his kind fighting those who committed genocide against his people after all) and less like this.

Mr. Kobayashi 02-24-2012 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinnAgain (Post 14808869)
Eh... after 50,000 years it's perfectly possible that there was a bottleneck somewhere and mutants became the new normal.

Also it's perfectly plausible that the Collectors had more than one single outpost.

Eh, both true but still disappointing. The Collectors especially; the Collector General was toasted and since he maintained a direct link to all Collectors for Harbingerification you'd have thought his death would mean the end of the Collectors.

Maybe Prothy is from the Styx Theta colony EDI mentioned when talking about how Protheans were morphed into the Collectors. Still, he looks way too much like a Collector for my liking - their DNA was supposed to have been completely rewritten and yet Prothy just looks like a Collector with a smaller head and no wings.

Also, if you're in the mood for spoiling squadmates;
SPOILER:
EDI in a mechanical body. She kinda looks like the robots from the Will Smith film iRobot.

FinnAgain 02-24-2012 11:30 PM

SPOILER:
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Sexbot Six is not a bot!


Grr.

Jragon 02-24-2012 11:55 PM

SPOILER:
Does anyone know, to romance Liara does one have to had remained faithful to her in ME2? I romanced Tali before the Shadow Broker DLC even was a thing.


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