Straight Dope Message Board

Straight Dope Message Board (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/index.php)
-   Cafe Society (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=525685)

Little Nemo 12-16-2019 10:19 PM

I first read Watchmen when it came out as a comic book series. I've probably read it a dozen times since. I've seen images of its characters hundreds of times, if not thousands.

But I never noticed this:

Quote:

The one thing we knew about the character of the Comedian was he couldn’t look like the Joker. He couldn’t look like a deranged clown. So I thought, “Who else would be a comedian? Who could I think of?” The one that leaped to mind was Groucho Marx because he had the mustache and the cigar and the kind of slicked back hair. So he was very much a toughened-up version of Groucho Marx, which was what I had in mind. - Dave Gibbons

JohnT 01-08-2020 06:10 PM

The following two songs came up in sequence in my Spotify account:

He's the Greatest Dancer, Sister Sledge, which has one of my all-time favorite guitar grooves.
Getting Jiggy with It, Will Smith, which, uh, does too.

In my defense, I wasn't into hip hop (or even pop music) with GJWT was released.

JohnT 01-08-2020 06:16 PM

To that end, how the hell did Billy Preston not sue Mike Post back in 1975 or so? I mean, holy hell, these songs sound a lot more alike than that Marvin Gaye song sounded like "Blurred Lines" and a helluva lot more than that other song sounded like "Stairway to Heaven".

Billy Preston's Space Race, copyright 1973.
Mike Post's The Rockford Files Theme Song, copyright 1975

JohnT 01-11-2020 09:23 AM

I was at a restaurant/dance hall last night with a lady friend and another obvious thing hit me while watching the crowd 'dance':

C&C's Music Factory's Everybody Dance Now is one of the most undanceable dance songs ever released.

Dung Beetle 01-13-2020 08:32 AM

JohnT, I saw your post crop up in my email over the weekend, and I've gotten several giggles out of it. :D

JohnT 01-13-2020 08:41 AM

It's true, though! The rhythms are jagged, and those who dance to the melody (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) are also completely fucked trying to dance to "Everybody Dance Now".

For an audience of middle-aged white and hispanics couples, EDN is a dancing disaster.

Alessan 01-13-2020 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnT (Post 22075076)
I was at a restaurant/dance hall last night with a lady friend and another obvious thing hit me while watching the crowd 'dance':

C&C's Music Factory's Everybody Dance Now is one of the most undanceable dance songs ever released.

It's really more of an aerobics song, isn't it?

The Stafford Cripps 01-13-2020 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnT (Post 22075076)
I was at a restaurant/dance hall last night with a lady friend and another obvious thing hit me while watching the crowd 'dance':

C&C's Music Factory's Everybody Dance Now is one of the most undanceable dance songs ever released.


The rhythm is excellent for a slow, trippy dance. But I suspect the frantic vocal makes a lot of non-clubby types think they need to dance fast to it.

Annie-Xmas 01-13-2020 09:47 AM

The last verse of Bruce Springsteen's Glory Days is extremely ironic:

And I hope when I get old I don't sit around thinking about it
But I probably will
Yeah, just sitting back trying to recapture
A little of the glory yeah

He already IS that guy. And he's drinking way too much to deal with it. Every verse mentions his drinking.

WOOKINPANUB 01-13-2020 09:55 AM

This thread is so long now that this may be the thing I already posted but:

Will & Grace; the fact that their first names can be personality traits is meant to be obvious, I assume. It wasn't until much deeper into the series that I realized their last names also had double meaning

Truman = True Man
Addler - Grace is addle brained (as apparently so am I :smack:)

I've often wondered if Herman Munster is some kind of play on "her man, monster".

JohnT 01-13-2020 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Stafford Cripps (Post 22078099)
The rhythm is excellent for a slow, trippy dance. But I suspect the frantic vocal makes a lot of non-clubby types think they need to dance fast to it.

This - I was counting out the rhythm and noticed it's a slower beat than expected and definitely was a lot slower than the crowd's movements. And I think 10% of them... mostly middle-aged white women who tend to be clueless about their ability to dance (as opposed to most middle-aged white guys who are embarrassed about the entire thing and just kind of shuffle with their arms bent, hands parallel with their shoulders)... were dancing to the BOMP! BOMP-BOM-BOM-BOMP! BOMP! part.

It was awesome.

RTFirefly 01-13-2020 12:33 PM

The Firebug wanted to watch The Wizard of Oz last night, so we pulled out the DVD and watched it. It was still enjoyable after all these years, but one thing really hit me:

In Oz, prior to the arrival of the Wizard, there were a minimum of three (in the film) or exactly four (in the books) real witches with real, quite nontrivial powers. The witches of the East and West were wicked, and certainly the Wicked Witch of the West seems quite power-hungry when we enter Oz with Dorothy.

Yet they all seem to have at least nominally recognized the Wizard as the #1 power in Oz and let him rule the Emerald City because he...landed in a hot-air balloon??

He must've totally nailed the dismount, that's all I've got to say.

RTFirefly 01-13-2020 12:40 PM

Another, much more minor thing: when Dorothy meets the Scarecrow, she's at something like a 5-way intersection of yellow brick roads, and wonders aloud which way is the right way, which gets the Scarecrow started with talking and pointing in various directions.

At the end of the scene, they head off down one of the roads together. But at no point have they reached a decision on which road is the right road to the Emerald City.

Weird that I should have never noticed either of these things before. Like most of us, I've seen it Lord knows how many times, and I was in my late 50s the last time the Firebug and I watched it together, so I can't exactly blame it on still being a kid at the time.

JohnT 01-13-2020 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas (Post 11400036)
I didn't realize that Will's last name of "Truman" is an indication that he is Grace's "true man" until I read the book about the series. It was orginally suppose to be "Hermann" (her man), but the producers changed it.

ETA: My thread made Threadspotting! WHOO HOO!

Not you, WOOKIN... but yes, that one has been mentioned.

JohnT 01-13-2020 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTFirefly (Post 22078481)
Another, much more minor thing: when Dorothy meets the Scarecrow, she's at something like a 5-way intersection of yellow brick roads, and wonders aloud which way is the right way, which gets the Scarecrow started with talking and pointing in various directions.

At the end of the scene, they head off down one of the roads together. But at no point have they reached a decision on which road is the right road to the Emerald City.

Weird that I should have never noticed either of these things before. Like most of us, I've seen it Lord knows how many times, and I was in my late 50s the last time the Firebug and I watched it together, so I can't exactly blame it on still being a kid at the time.

Don't forget, at the end of the movie Dorothy has destroyed the leadership of 3 of the 5 main political units of OZ, leaving Glenda in charge of the North, West, East, and Oz.

Surely that was not by accident!

DrDeth 01-13-2020 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTFirefly (Post 22078472)
The Firebug wanted to watch The Wizard of Oz last night, so we pulled out the DVD and watched it. It was still enjoyable after all these years, but one thing really hit me:

In Oz, prior to the arrival of the Wizard, there were a minimum of three (in the film) or exactly four (in the books) real witches with real, quite nontrivial powers. The witches of the East and West were wicked, and certainly the Wicked Witch of the West seems quite power-hungry when we enter Oz with Dorothy.

Yet they all seem to have at least nominally recognized the Wizard as the #1 power in Oz and let him rule the Emerald City because he...landed in a hot-air balloon??

He must've totally nailed the dismount, that's all I've got to say.

Oddly, he chose (from among his many names) "OZ" - and that is what is on his balloon. The ruler of OZ has always been known as OZ or Ozma, so people (and witches) assumed he was the rightful ruler coming back. OTOH, none of the 4 could agree on who got to rule the Emerald city anyway, so as long as the Wizard ruled just the city, they werent going to push it.


The history is rather confused as baum changed it around a couple time.

Annie-Xmas 01-13-2020 12:53 PM

Since we're talking OZ:

I don't know why, but I always thought the title of Gregory McGuire's sequel to Wicked was Son of Wicked. Noticing a copy on the library's sale shelf Saturday, I finally realized I had it wrong. The title is Son Of A Witch

Sonofabitch!

RTFirefly 01-13-2020 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnT (Post 22078487)
Don't forget, at the end of the movie Dorothy has destroyed the leadership of 3 of the 5 main political units of OZ, leaving Glenda in charge of the North, West, East, and Oz.

Surely that was not by accident!

Oh, Glinda's one smooth operator, no question. And disgustingly smarmy, to boot.

I'm more thinking of the time after the Wizard arrived, and before Dorothy showed up. Especially right after the Wizard arrived, but not just then. You'd think there'd have been an ongoing power struggle between the witches to either depose the Wizard and control the Emerald City directly, or turn him into their puppet and rule through him indirectly.

zimaane 01-13-2020 02:01 PM

In Shrek the villain's name is Lord Farquaad, which sounds fairly similar to a well known vulgarism. Could be a coincidence, but I wonder.

peccavi 01-13-2020 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnT (Post 22078487)
Don't forget, at the end of the movie Dorothy has destroyed the leadership of 3 of the 5 main political units of OZ, leaving Glenda in charge of the North, West, East, and Oz.

Surely that was not by accident!

More related to the books than the movie, but in Seanan McGuire's latest collection of (previously published, for the most part) short stories, Laughter at the Academy, the story titled Emeralds to Emeralds, Dust to Dust addresses this very question quite mordantly.

commasense 01-13-2020 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOOKINPANUB (Post 22078135)
This thread is so long now that this may be the thing I already posted but:

Will & Grace; the fact that their first names can be personality traits is meant to be obvious, I assume. It wasn't until much deeper into the series that I realized their last names also had double meaning

Truman = True Man
Addler - Grace is addle brained (as apparently so am I :smack:)

Along those lines, I had been watching Grace and Frankie for a couple of seasons before I realized the names described the characters (or perhaps the way they'd describe themselves). Jane Fonda's character Grace is more upper-class and refined, and Lily Tomlin's aging hippie, Frankie, is more blunt and outspoken.

Little Nemo 01-13-2020 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimaane (Post 22078668)
In Shrek the villain's name is Lord Farquaad, which sounds fairly similar to a well known vulgarism. Could be a coincidence, but I wonder.

I don't think the makers of Shrek have ever officially acknowledged this. But it was definitely noticed and commented upon at the time the movie was released.

The unofficial story is that Lord Farquaad was based on Michael Eisner, who was the head of Disney at the time. Jeffrey Katzenberg, who used to work for Disney before leaving to co-found Dreamworks, had a lot of animosity towards Eisner.

RealityChuck 01-17-2020 07:15 PM

I listened to "Look at Me, I'm Sandra Dee" from the original Broadway production of Grease.

The female lead of the stage version was named "Sandy Dombrowski"* -- Sandra D.

*The changed the last name in the movie to Olssen, probably because it didn't fit Olivia Newton-John, but killing the joke.

Fiendish Astronaut 01-19-2020 08:35 PM

In Back To The Future the Flux Capacitor activated when the Delorean reached 88mph. I just realised that the 8s represent infinity.

Leo Bloom 01-19-2020 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furryman (Post 21911487)
I don't know how often or how long I've stared at the waistband of my Haines underwear :o but I just noticed that the name and the colors of the logo are printed in reverse on the inside of the waistband.

Cool observation...also your welcoming in product design as a creative work.

This is where I get to say I finally realized--was told by someone-- that the old IBM PCs used an empty circle for "power on" and one with a vertical slash for "power off." Or the other way around.

Exapno Mapcase 01-19-2020 10:51 PM

I just found out that Madonna was named after her mother, also named Madonna.
In fact, both are named Madonna Louise. She's a Junior!

Little Nemo 01-19-2020 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase (Post 22089825)
I just found out that Madonna was named after her mother, also named Madonna.
In fact, both are named Madonna Louise. She's a Junior!

Prince was also a Junior. Sort of.

His father's legal name was John Lewis Nelson. But he was a musician who performed under the stage name Prince Rogers. So when his son was born, he named him Prince Rogers Nelson.

Prince didn't like his unusual first name when he was young. So he went by the nickname Skipper.

Enola Straight 01-20-2020 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo Bloom (Post 22089729)
Cool observation...also your welcoming in product design as a creative work.

This is where I get to say I finally realized--was told by someone-- that the old IBM PCs used an empty circle for "power on" and one with a vertical slash for "power off." Or the other way around.

I think it was pointed out on this board somewhere that the laptop brand VAIO itself is a play on terms: the VA represents sine wave analog signal and the IO represents a digital Input/Output signal.

Superdude 01-20-2020 10:31 AM

At the end of Sheryl Crow's "Soak Up the Sun," the last line is "I've got my 45 on so I can rock on."

It never occurred to me that she was talking about sunscreen/suntan lotion with an SPF of 45. I always thought she was referring to the turntable speed. In my defense, the term "rock on" could easily be interpreted as a reference for music.

Sir Prize 01-20-2020 10:51 AM

Emma Peel = M appeal (i.e., man appeal)

Kamino Neko 01-20-2020 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo (Post 22031467)
I first read Watchmen when it came out as a comic book series. I've probably read it a dozen times since. I've seen images of its characters hundreds of times, if not thousands.

But I never noticed this:

I don't know if I'd call that obvious... With it pointed out, I can see the influence, but without the glasses and the suit, the resemblance is barely passing.

Irishman 01-20-2020 11:01 AM

I'm not convinced it's about SPF. I was always confused what having a pistol had to do with anything before I settled on the old time record player explanation.

DrDeth 01-20-2020 12:55 PM

One of the best Ringo albums is Photograph: The Very Best of Ringo Starr.

On it,Act Naturally. Now Ringo can do a pretty good American accent, but I thought his accent here was amazing- until I learned it was a duet with Buck Owens.:smack::eek:

FriarTed 01-22-2020 10:07 AM

This happened in the past 15 minutes.
A friend on FB posted an article about how dangerous arsenic has been found in large batches of wine as a little is sometimes used in the fermenting process.
Of course, comments start referring to "Aresenic and Old Lace".

I think about the flavor of wine the old ladies used.

Elderberry.

Elder Bury.

*MIND BLOWN!*

CairoCarol 01-22-2020 12:21 PM

As a hormonal, nerdy teen girl I read James Kirkwood Jr.'s "Good Times, Bad Times" and had a mad fantasy crush on Jordan, the sensitive young man with heart trouble. Narrator Peter, his friend, wasn't so bad either. I daydreamed many a scenario where I had a passionate affair with one or the other of them.

I read the book again years later and realized I had completely overlooked the homoerotic overtones. Not only were Jordan and Peter out of my reach because they were fictional characters, had they somehow come to life exactly as written, I wouldn't have met their criteria for romantic involvement. Dammit!

(I have mixed feelings about the book now. It was in some ways a wonderful novel; I wasn't the only one who identified strongly with it. But the plot was ultimately self-loathingly anti-gay; had the author (gay himself) written the same book at a time more accepting of homosexuality surely he wouldn't have tied the headmaster's evil to his sexual orientation.)

Annie-Xmas 01-27-2020 10:26 AM

Listening to Queen, I suddenly realized they did more great songs with fewer musical instruments than any band in history. They are practically an a capella band.

Of course, when you're working with Freddy Mercury's 3+ octave voice, who needs instruments?

commasense 01-27-2020 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas (Post 22103081)
Listening to Queen, I suddenly realized they did more great songs with fewer musical instruments than any band in history. They are practically an a capella band.

Of course, when you're working with Freddy Mercury's 3+ octave voice, who needs instruments?

Yes, several of their albums boasted "No synths!"

Limmin 01-29-2020 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furryman (Post 21564095)
Until reading some Harry Potter fanfiction I never realized how dark the stories were especially the Dursley's treatment of Harry. There's a lot of controversy about how much Dumbledore knew of the situation, but at the very least he could have called occasionally

You know, the idea of the hero being left to deal with bad circumstances alone, while the father / wizard figure does nothing to intervene, is seen elsewhere too. Such as the relationship between Wotan & Siegmund in Wagner's Die Walkure.

Limmin 01-29-2020 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commasense (Post 22103694)
Yes, several of their albums boasted "No synths!"

Surely, then, the citizens of Diamond City would approve.

Telemark 01-29-2020 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limmin (Post 22108528)
Such as the relationship between Wotan & Siegmund in Wagner's Die Walkure.

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Rocketeer 01-29-2020 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTFirefly (Post 22078481)
Another, much more minor thing: when Dorothy meets the Scarecrow, she's at something like a 5-way intersection of yellow brick roads, and wonders aloud which way is the right way, which gets the Scarecrow started with talking and pointing in various directions.

At the end of the scene, they head off down one of the roads together. But at no point have they reached a decision on which road is the right road to the Emerald City.

Weird that I should have never noticed either of these things before. Like most of us, I've seen it Lord knows how many times, and I was in my late 50s the last time the Firebug and I watched it together, so I can't exactly blame it on still being a kid at the time.

Don't all roads lead to Rome?

Little Nemo 01-29-2020 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDeth (Post 22090623)
One of the best Ringo albums is Photograph: The Very Best of Ringo Starr.

On it,Act Naturally. Now Ringo can do a pretty good American accent, but I thought his accent here was amazing- until I learned it was a duet with Buck Owens.:smack::eek:

That song has a somewhat unusual recording history. Buck Owens recorded his version of it in 1963. Ringo Starr recorded his version of it in 1965. And then Owens and Starr recorded a new version as a duet in 1989.

NotherYinzer 01-29-2020 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocketeer (Post 22108578)
Don't all roads lead to Rome?

No. All roads lead away from Ankh-Morpork but some people are walking along them the wrong way. ;)

DrDeth 01-29-2020 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo (Post 22108605)
That song has a somewhat unusual recording history. Buck Owens recorded his version of it in 1963. Ringo Starr recorded his version of it in 1965. And then Owens and Starr recorded a new version as a duet in 1989.

Huh, interesting.

Annie-Xmas 02-10-2020 11:55 AM

It just now hit me why Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat uses an Elvis impersonator as Pharaoh, who sings The song of the King?

Get it? Elvis the King?

Indyellen 02-10-2020 12:34 PM

Caddyshack is one of my all-time favorite movies. However, my brain didn't click on the double-entendre of the name of the country club (Bushwood) until I ordered a "Property of Bushwood Country Club 1980" shirt - and wore it for the first time. :smack:

Andy L 02-10-2020 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas (Post 22130646)
It just now hit me why Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat uses an Elvis impersonator as Pharaoh, who sings The song of the King?

Get it? Elvis the King?

From Memphis!

caligulathegod 02-11-2020 02:37 AM

The new Harley Quinn movie got me thinking about the character. I've been a fan of her since Batman the Animated Series and even own an original animation cel (the only one I own, actually), so we're talking nearly 30 years. She was originally voiced by actress Arleen Sorkin and even inspired by her appearance in Days of our Lives. https://youtu.be/fjrIOtMRGcU It never occurred to me that her name was, too. Harley Quinn, obviously, is a take off on Harlequin. in keeping with the week puns of comic book villain names, it was supposedly based upon her "real" name Harleen Quinzel. They even reference it in the new animated series on DC where the Joker says he gave her her name and she replies, "You got Harley Quinn from Harleen Quinzel? I mean, come on!" I have NO idea why it never occurred to me until this week that the real inspiration's name Arleen Sorkin just needs an "H" and it's Harleen. I had so completely dismissed the obvious reference to her real name due to the pun within a pun of her name being a "clown" and the weak "kayfabe" justification for that name.

commasense 02-11-2020 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caligulathegod (Post 22131991)
The new Harley Quinn movie got me thinking about the character. I've been a fan of her since Batman the Animated Series and even own an original animation cel (the only one I own, actually), so we're talking nearly 30 years. She was originally voiced by actress Arleen Sorkin and even inspired by her appearance in Days of our Lives. https://youtu.be/fjrIOtMRGcU It never occurred to me that her name was, too. Harley Quinn, obviously, is a take off on Harlequin. in keeping with the week puns of comic book villain names, it was supposedly based upon her "real" name Harleen Quinzel. They even reference it in the new animated series on DC where the Joker says he gave her her name and she replies, "You got Harley Quinn from Harleen Quinzel? I mean, come on!" I have NO idea why it never occurred to me until this week that the real inspiration's name Arleen Sorkin just needs an "H" and it's Harleen. I had so completely dismissed the obvious reference to her real name due to the pun within a pun of her name being a "clown" and the weak "kayfabe" justification for that name.

I was about to protest that surely they came up with the character's name and it was purely coincidence that the actress who voiced her had a similar first name.

But it's not that simple.

Quote:

Harley Quinn first appeared in the DC Animated Universe's Batman: The Animated Series episode "Joker's Favor,"[9] in what was initially supposed to be the animated equivalent of a walk-on role; several police officers were to be taken hostage by someone jumping out of a cake, and it was decided that to have the Joker do so himself would be too bizarre, although he ended up doing it anyway. Thus they created a female sidekick for the Joker; she would become his love interest. Arleen Sorkin, a former star of the soap opera Days of Our Lives, appeared in a dream sequence on that series in which she wore a jester costume; They used this scene as an inspiration for Quinn.[10] Having been friends with Sorkin since college, Paul Dini incorporated aspects of her personality into the character and even got Sorkin herself to voice the character.[11] Quinn was also inspired by a mutual female friend's "stormy but nonviolent relationship," according to Timm.[12]
They might have named the character Harley Quinn even if Arleen had not been a factor, but this suggests that her name may have inspired that choice.

Dendarii Dame 02-11-2020 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas (Post 22130646)
It just now hit me why Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat uses an Elvis impersonator as Pharaoh, who sings The song of the King?

Get it? Elvis the King?

No cite, but I remember reading somewhere that Elvis wanted to play the part.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.