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-   -   Do Other Countries Have a Pledge of Allegiance? (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=92227)

ZomZom 10-10-2001 12:07 PM

Well, do they?

owlstretchingtime 10-11-2001 09:20 AM

Well we (UK) don't, and have always thought the US a bit odd about this.

There is a brief oath you have to take before being granted citizenship, but that's it.

Spiny Norman 10-11-2001 11:17 AM

We in Denmark don't have one either - I don't think it's that widespread, really.

OTOH, we have no oaths I know of in public life: We don't swear in the PM, there's no oaths in courtrooms nor in the armed forces.

S. Norman

Futile Gesture 10-11-2001 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by owlstretchingtime
Well we (UK) don't, and have always thought the US a bit odd about this.

There is a brief oath you have to take before being granted citizenship, but that's it.

There's also an oath you have to take to be a MP, MSP or MWP. Police officers also have to take an oath, and I wouldn't be surprised if the armed forces had the same.

But then these are all to the Queen, rather than the country and some people do have a problem with that. Me included.

TheeGrumpy 10-11-2001 06:50 PM

Well I swear!
 
:D

Richard Pearse 10-11-2001 07:22 PM

New Zealand and Australia
 
We don't have any pledge of allegiance, though some people in certain positions, Prime Minister for example, undertake an oath.

TheThill 10-11-2001 07:28 PM

Anybody over here (in Germany) that I've told about that little American quirk has thought it to be quite unusual, to say the least.

ElvisL1ves 10-11-2001 09:39 PM

There aren't many other countries whose flags have the iconic significance the US one's does. Are there any others whose very anthem is about it, for instance?

Cardinal 10-11-2001 09:45 PM

You mean you guys in them there forin countrys ain't got no plege of allegence?

How else do you instill a reflex mentality of being comfortable in making showy displays of loyalty while in a heavily socially enforced atmosphere?

London_Calling 10-11-2001 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Swaney
How else do you instill a reflex mentality of being comfortable in making showy displays of loyalty while in a heavily socially enforced atmosphere?
We roll up our trouser legs and do the Gumby dance. Seems reasonable........Doesn't everyone ?

mhendo 10-11-2001 10:40 PM

Australia
 
skogcat was not totally correct about Australia. It is true that there is no Pledge of Allegiance taught to Australian citizens the way that the US Pledge is taught to schoolchildren etc. in America. There is, however, a pledge that is taken by those who have immigrated to Australia and wish to become Australian citizens.

There are, in fact, two Australian Citizenship Pledges.

Number 1, which is known as the Oath, reads:
Quote:

From this time forward, under God,
I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people,
whose democratic beliefs I share,
whose rights and liberties I respect, and
whose laws I will uphold and obey.
Number 2, known as the Affirmation, is identical except for the removal of the words "under God". A potential citizen can choose either one.

These pledges were adopted in 1994, and replaced the previous pledge in which new citizens swore allegiance to the English monarch.

dqa 10-11-2001 11:15 PM

As the real thing doesn't exist, in German class we were forced to memorize the American pledge, translated into German.

jack@ss 10-11-2001 11:21 PM

I heard that the american pledge of allegience was first instituted after the Civil War "one nation under God, indivisible..." maybe as insurance that through indoctrination as children we would be less likely to secceed from the union again in the future.

yabob 10-11-2001 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jack@ss
I heard that the american pledge of allegience was first instituted after the Civil War "one nation under God, indivisible..." maybe as insurance that through indoctrination as children we would be less likely to secceed from the union again in the future.
No, originally to commemorate Columbus Day, believe it or not, and it dates from 1892:

http://www.homeofheroes.com/hallofhe...fc_pledge.html

DanBlather 10-12-2001 01:04 AM

The whole pledge thing never made much sense to me. First, why pledge allegiance to the FLAG? The constitition would make much more sense. Second, why do it every day? Did they think I changed my mind overnight? Third, the "under god" part violates separation of church and state. And finally, forcing kids to pledge an oath of allegiance seems to stand against the very ideals that America stands for.

dqa 10-12-2001 02:01 AM

From here
Quote:

In June of 1954 an amendment was made to add the words "under God". Then-President Dwight D. Eisenhower said "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of reigious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."
Michael Dukakis got in a little hot water over his veto of a Massachusetts bill that would have required teachers to lead their class in the pledge each day. This site gives a pretty good overall history.
Quote:

Among the nations in the world, only the USA and the Philippines, imitating the USA, have a pledge to their flag....In 1892, a socialist named Francis Bellamy created the Pledge of Allegiance for Youth's Companion, a national family magazine for youth published in Boston.

Kaje 10-12-2001 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanBlather
The whole pledge thing never made much sense to me. First, why pledge allegiance to the FLAG? The constitition would make much more sense. Second, why do it every day? Did they think I changed my mind overnight? Third, the "under god" part violates separation of church and state. And finally, forcing kids to pledge an oath of allegiance seems to stand against the very ideals that America stands for.
You got it all wrong... it supports the very ideals America stands for... Its in the declaration of independence: "life, liberty, and the pursuit of global assimilation"

Bob Scene 10-12-2001 02:21 AM

I don't get it. How can you have freedom if you don't force all the children to mindlessly recite patriotic loyalty oaths that they're too young to even understand?

TheLoadedDog 10-12-2001 08:11 AM

Re: Australia
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mhendo
skogcat was not totally correct about Australia. It is true that there is no Pledge of Allegiance taught to Australian citizens the way that the US Pledge is taught to schoolchildren etc. in America. There is, however, a pledge that is taken by those who have immigrated to Australia and wish to become Australian citizens.

When I was in primary (elementary) school in the 70s, we had to recite a pledge once a week at school assembly. I've forgotten the exact wording, but it was something along the lines of "I honour my Country, I respect my Flag...". As for this being a general Australian thing, it might well have been the midnight creativity of a drunken school principal, so I can't vouch for it.

SuaSponte 10-12-2001 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaje
You got it all wrong... it supports the very ideals America stands for... Its in the declaration of independence: "life, liberty, and the pursuit of global assimilation"
Could someone link to the Declaration of Independence for me? I haven't read it in a while, an apparently I've forgotten the language concerning global assimilation.

Sua

ElvisL1ves 10-12-2001 09:16 AM

"Global assimilation" is the dictionary meaning of "happineff".

The secret agenda of the Illuminati is revealed.

Jodi 10-12-2001 10:58 AM

Quote:

"Global assimilation" is the dictionary meaning of "happineff".
I'm pretty sure the dictionary meaning of "happineff" is "global affimilation." You stand corrected. :D

Richard Pearse 10-12-2001 11:09 AM

Re: Australia
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mhendo
skogcat was not totally correct about Australia. It is true that there is no Pledge of Allegiance taught to Australian citizens the way that the US Pledge is taught to schoolchildren etc. in America. There is, however, a pledge that is taken by those who have immigrated to Australia and wish to become Australian citizens.


Yes and NZ has a similar thing for new citizens but this is not really in the same category as the US P of A. For instance I don't know anyone who actually knows the NZ pledge unless they've learned it through curiosity or they've been in a situation where they've been required to say it.

Monty 10-12-2001 11:18 AM

Mangoldm: Perhaps you're merely asking if any other country has a pledge of allegiance to their flag?

sailor 10-12-2001 11:21 AM

> Do Other Countries Have a Pledge of Allegiance?

No, and therein lies the problem. If the whole world pledged allegiance to the flag of the USA and the Republic it represents, we would not be having so many international problems. If Bin Laden would have been brought up reciting the pledge of allegiance things would be very different today.

mhendo 10-12-2001 12:15 PM

I've never heard of the pledge to Australia that The LoadedDog remembers from school, so it may indeed be the result of an overzealous official or teacher.

And i agree with skogcat that virtually no-one in Australia actually knows the Citizenship Pledge.

Even if Australia did have a more commonly-used pledge, i think you'd have trouble getting a lot of Australians to pledge allegiance to our flag, especially as a considerable proportion of the population would like to see it changed and the union jack removed.

ClintPhoenix 10-12-2001 02:12 PM

In Canada in Elementary school, at every assembly we saluted our flag, the words of which follow:

I salute the flag,
The emblem of my Country,
To her I pledge my love, my life and my loyalty.

All the pages I can find this on now say I pledge my love and loyalty, but I seem to remember having that bit in there about my life.


Here is a link to the regulations for my local board of education that contains this pledge, if you need a cite:
http://www.cbe.ab.ca/ch_supt/oppolic...ions/r3074.pdf

Clint.

CC 10-12-2001 04:17 PM

re: dqa
 
Ike put "under God" in there at the time we were fighting the godless commies. It was, of course, bad enough that they wanted to take over the world, but worse than that would have been that we'd be governed by people who didn't believe in god. Now, of course, we have declared that we DO believe in god and boy oh boy isn't it helping us these days? "I DO believe in God, I DO believe in God, I DO, I DO I DO believe in God."

mnemosyne 10-12-2001 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ClintPhoenix
In Canada in Elementary school, at every assembly we saluted our flag, the words of which follow:

I salute the flag,
The emblem of my Country,
To her I pledge my love, my life and my loyalty.

All the pages I can find this on now say I pledge my love and loyalty, but I seem to remember having that bit in there about my life.


Here is a link to the regulations for my local board of education that contains this pledge, if you need a cite:
http://www.cbe.ab.ca/ch_supt/oppolic...ions/r3074.pdf

Clint.

Must have been a local thing, because we didn't say it. Of course, I was in Quebec, so that might explain things. Even in Europe, though, on the military base, we didn't have any pledge or oath. We did sing O'Canada every morning before school (and for some reason before every movie in a theatre), and if you watch TV to the end of programming you'd get to listen to it, but that's kind of different.

Cowboy8112 07-02-2015 10:53 PM

The United States is the only nation with a pledge to its Flag

BigT 07-02-2015 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClintPhoenix (Post 1708754)
I salute the flag,
The emblem of my Country,
To her I pledge my love, my life and my loyalty.

Anyone still around know if the the "her" refers to the flag or, as I would instinctively think, the country?

Nava 07-03-2015 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy8112 (Post 18488135)
The United States is the only nation with a pledge to its Flag

Spanish soldiers swear fealty to the flag in their graduation, but as a symbol of the country. The graduation is called jura de bandera, pledging to the flag.

ruadh 07-03-2015 12:41 AM

In the UK these days, the poppy serves much the same purpose.

Foggy 07-03-2015 12:42 AM

This is a nearly 14 yo thread.

ZOMBIES

Malden Capell 07-03-2015 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhendo (Post 1706317)
These pledges were adopted in 1994, and replaced the previous pledge in which new citizens swore allegiance to the English monarch.

Australian monarch.

;)

kanicbird 07-03-2015 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Scene (Post 1706862)
I don't get it. How can you have freedom if you don't force all the children to mindlessly recite patriotic loyalty oaths that they're too young to even understand?

It would go more to an ongoing maintenance of a illusion of freedom the way it is used.

Hari Seldon 07-03-2015 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClintPhoenix (Post 1708754)
In Canada in Elementary school, at every assembly we saluted our flag, the words of which follow:

I salute the flag,
The emblem of my Country,
To her I pledge my love, my life and my loyalty.

All the pages I can find this on now say I pledge my love and loyalty, but I seem to remember having that bit in there about my life.


Here is a link to the regulations for my local board of education that contains this pledge, if you need a cite:
http://www.cbe.ab.ca/ch_supt/oppolic...ions/r3074.pdf

Clint.

You didn't say where you are, but there is nothing like that in Quebec. And while your post says you salute the flag, you don't pledge allegiance to it.

Growing up in the US, I stopped reciting the oath the day they added, "under god" to it. I still don't understand the mentality of imposing your religious beliefs on others.

OldGuy 07-03-2015 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hari Seldon (Post 18488769)
Growing up in the US, I stopped reciting the oath the day they added, "under god" to it. I still don't understand the mentality of imposing your religious beliefs on others.

You must be even older than I to have made a conscious choice about that in 1954. But I agree it was and is a bad inclusion to the Pledge. The other earlier change was "my flag" becoming "the flag of the United States" and later "of America" was added.

A most unusual aspect was that the Pledge was originally accompanied by the Bellamy salute named after the author of the Pledge. This salute was essentially the same as the Nazi salute of arm held at an angle with palm down. That salute was changed to hand over the heart during WWII for obvious reasons.

Kenm 07-03-2015 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClintPhoenix (Post 1708754)
In Canada in Elementary school, at every assembly we saluted our flag, the words of which follow:

I salute the flag,
The emblem of my Country,
To her I pledge my love, my life and my loyalty.

All the pages I can find this on now say I pledge my love and loyalty, but I seem to remember having that bit in there about my life.


Here is a link to the regulations for my local board of education that contains this pledge, if you need a cite:
http://www.cbe.ab.ca/ch_supt/oppolic...ions/r3074.pdf

Clint.

That's disgusting. The link, alas, does nothing in Firefox and hauls up a 404 in Safari, each of which is fitting.

I remember a pledge repeated at every gathering of the Little Fascist Cub Scouts of Canada, of which I was one, that included a vow to do my duty to god and the queen. There was a dib, dib, dib, dib thing in there, too, which was a signal to those space aliens assigned to Terra that we were ready to become pod people, if we hadn't already.

alphaboi867 07-03-2015 05:46 PM

There's the Singapore National Pledge.

Mahaloth 07-03-2015 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hari Seldon (Post 18488769)
Growing up in the US, I stopped reciting the oath the day they added, "under god" to it. I still don't understand the mentality of imposing your religious beliefs on others.

I don't say it and I don't mind the under god part at all. I just find it creepy. It's like the mantra, "Four legs good, two legs bad" in Animal Farm.

lalaith 07-03-2015 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanBlather (Post 1706703)
The whole pledge thing never made much sense to me. First, why pledge allegiance to the FLAG? The constitition would make much more sense. Second, why do it every day? Did they think I changed my mind overnight? Third, the "under god" part violates separation of church and state. And finally, forcing kids to pledge an oath of allegiance seems to stand against the very ideals that America stands for.

It makes a lot more sense if you realize it was written for children. Little school kids aren't going to understand pledging to some piece of paper they've never read and wouldn't understand if they did. (Most of the Constitution is technicalities on how to set up the government.) But they'd seen flags. I don't know if every classroom had a US flag, but I expect by 1892 it would be common for most of the larger schools to have a US flag. A flag's a nice, easy-to-understand, visible symbol of America.

As for why do it every day..........why recite the same prayer for each meal or before you go to sleep every night? Repetition and children tend to go together.


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