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-   -   If Donald Trump is involved in ordering a hit on Yovanavitch, that's certainly impeachable right? (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=888469)

BeepKillBeep 01-15-2020 08:10 AM

If Donald Trump is involved in ordering a hit on Yovanavitch, that's certainly impeachable right?
 
There's some evidence starting to come out that there may have been a conspiracy to organize a hit on Yovanovitch. Assuming that Trump is involved in this at any level certainly, that would be a 100% impeachable* right?

Are there any Trumpists or Trumpist-lite that would like to state a position on this in advance of any additional evidence emerging? Is anybody willing to say unequivocally in advance that they would support his removal from office over this (if true)? Or inversely would like to say, in advance, that they would not support his removal because <reasons> (e.g., the president has every right to order a hit on an American ambassador)?

* I'm using impeach here in the colloquial sense of including subsequent removal.

BrotherCadfael 01-15-2020 08:23 AM

"Leave the gun. Take the canolli"? Certainly.


A targetted strike on an enemy commander in a theater of war? No.

bump 01-15-2020 08:28 AM

I would think that definitive proof of a hit ordered on Yovanovitch at Trump's order or with his assent would fall under the umbrella of attempted murder- she's an American citizen and as such, should have any issues handled through the justice system, not through extrajudicial means.

I can't see how anyone in the GOP or right-wing could actually defend that- it would be deliberate flaunting of the rule of law and in effect saying that it's ok to murder people as long as you're the President.

Also... I can see that resulting in a trial once he's out of office.

BeepKillBeep 01-15-2020 08:28 AM

In view of BrotherCadfael's response. To be clear, this isn't a gotcha. I'm only talking about if Trump was involved in organizing/ordering a hit on Yovanovitch. If a mod would like to add "on Yovanovitch" to the subject line, time that would be fine with me.

kaylasdad99 01-15-2020 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bump (Post 22082031)
I would think that definitive proof of a hit ordered on Yovanovitch at Trump's order or with his assent would fall under the umbrella of attempted murder- she's an American citizen and as such, should have any issues handled through the justice system, not through extrajudicial means.

I can't see how anyone in the GOP or right-wing could actually defend that- it would be deliberate flaunting of the rule of law and in effect saying that it's ok to murder people as long as you're the President.

Also... I can see that resulting in a trial once he's out of office.

FLOUTING.

That is all.

Snarky_Kong 01-15-2020 08:51 AM

I would hope this gets a full investigation.
  • Trump says that Yovanovich "will go through some things"
  • Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.
  • Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you're willing to pay.
  • Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she's in danger. Leave the country immediately.

WTF is all that?

Intergalactic Gladiator 01-15-2020 08:51 AM

Well yeah, but remember Hillary killed 21 people. [/sarcasm]

Wesley Clark 01-15-2020 09:08 AM

Fuck impeachment, he should die in prison for that one.

Gyrate 01-15-2020 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong (Post 22082070)
I would hope this gets a full investigation.
  • Trump says that Yovanovich "will go through some things"
  • Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.
  • Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you're willing to pay.
  • Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she's in danger. Leave the country immediately.

WTF is all that?

If it wasn't an intended hit, I can think of a few other things it might have been and none of them were good, particularly for a woman.

CarnalK 01-15-2020 09:24 AM

Rather than whatever grisly shit you're imagining, they probably just wanted to know who she was meeting with in order to keep ahead of her or to discredit her.

Monocracy 01-15-2020 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bump (Post 22082031)
I can't see how anyone in the GOP or right-wing could actually defend that- [...]

Have you been paying attention to current politics? Republicans will defend absolutely ANYTHING.

Shodan 01-15-2020 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeepKillBeep (Post 22082003)
There's some evidence starting to come out that there may have been a conspiracy to organize a hit on Yovanovitch. Assuming that Trump is involved in this at any level certainly, that would be a 100% impeachable* right?

As has been pointed out several times in the past, anything is impeachable if Congress says it is.
Quote:

Are there any Trumpists or Trumpist-lite that would like to state a position on this in advance of any additional evidence emerging? Is anybody willing to say unequivocally in advance that they would support his removal from office over this (if true)?
I'm going to stick my neck way, way out there and say Yes. If Trump conspired to have an ambassador murdered, he should be impeached and removed from office. I am sure you are all in awe of my courageous commitment to principle, but that is a burden I have learned to bear humbly.

I am hoping this isn't an attempt at a gotcha where you suddenly reveal that Trump had some American citizen killed in a drone strike in Afghanistan, but I am an incurable optimist.

Regards,
Shodan

BeepKillBeep 01-15-2020 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shodan (Post 22082198)
As has been pointed out several times in the past, anything is impeachable if Congress says it is.
I'm going to stick my neck way, way out there and say Yes. If Trump conspired to have an ambassador murdered, he should be impeached and removed from office. I am sure you are all in awe of my courageous commitment to principle, but that is a burden I have learned to bear humbly.

I am hoping this isn't an attempt at a gotcha where you suddenly reveal that Trump had some American citizen killed in a drone strike in Afghanistan, but I am an incurable optimist.

Regards,
Shodan

No gotcha. Not from me anyway, and I hope not from anybody else. My intent is purely about the recent evidence that suggests there may have been at least a conspiracy to plan the assassination of Yovanavitch.

Honestly, I'm not expecting anybody to say they wouldn't support removal. I cannot imagine how, and at least from my own selfish point of view, any attempt ought to be hilarious. I can imagine some people will try to skirt the issue and not answer the question.

Velocity 01-15-2020 09:49 AM

If Trump did such a thing, and the evidence was overwhelming and clear, he'd be impeached and deposed, for sure. Likely a unanimous vote in House + Senate. You'd have President Pence by the end of the week.

BobLibDem 01-15-2020 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shodan (Post 22082198)
I'm going to stick my neck way, way out there and say Yes. If Trump conspired to have an ambassador murdered, he should be impeached and removed from office.

This is an admirable stance and I applaud you for it. However, I do not believe Republicans in office would vote to convict nor would it move the needle for his base. You certainly have principles, but Moscow Mitch does not. As long as he gets his right wing judges and the base will not move, there is no chance for conviction.

Tatterdemalion 01-15-2020 10:14 AM

You (Velocity) are more optimistic about Mitch McConnell's honor than I am.

running coach 01-15-2020 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatterdemalion (Post 22082265)
You (Velocity) are more optimistic about Mitch McConnell's honor than I am.

His what??!!!

Velocity 01-15-2020 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeepKillBeep (Post 22082003)
There's some evidence starting to come out that there may have been a conspiracy to organize a hit on Yovanovitch.

I hate, hate, hate to be a "cite please?" person, but where did you hear this?

Gyrate 01-15-2020 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarnalK (Post 22082157)
Rather than whatever grisly shit you're imagining, they probably just wanted to know who she was meeting with in order to keep ahead of her or to discredit her.

I wish I had your optimism. I'm pretty sure most people aren't agog at the idea you can pay someone to carry out basic surveillance, even in Ukraine.

Left Hand of Dorkness 01-15-2020 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity (Post 22082287)
I hate, hate, hate to be a "cite please?" person, but where did you hear this?

Read this:
Quote:

Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
https://www.ft.com/content/839be6dc-...3-9a26f8c3cba4

Yet the most arresting documents may be a series of messages last year between Mr Parnas and Robert F Hyde, a Republican Congressional candidate in Connecticut and Trump supporter. They suggest the two kept Marie Yovanovitch, a US ambassador they believed was hostile to Mr Giuliani’s mission in Ukraine, under surveillance.

“Wow. Can’t believe Trumo [sic] hasn’t fired this bitch. I’ll get right in that,” Mr Hyde wrote on March 23, 2019.

About three hours later he sent Mr Parnas an update on Ms Yovanovitch’s whereabouts: “She under heavy protection outside Kiev.”

Two days later, Mr Hyde wrote to Mr Parnas: “They are moving her tomorrow . . . The guys over they [sic] asked me what I would like to do and what is in it for them.”

Then, after he appeared to urge Mr Parnas to wake up, My Hyde added: “She’s talked to three people. Her phone is off. Her computer is off . . . She’s next to the embassy . . . Not in the embassy.”

Later that day, Mr Hyde wrote: “They are willing to help if we/you would like a price . . . Guess you can do anything in the Ukraine with money . . . what I was told.”

“Lol,” Mr Parnas replied.
It's pretty amazing to read. Also being an incurable optimist, I suspect that Dr. Jekyll's alter-ego was just playing at being a mob boss because he's a rich idiot and got caught up in using innuendo, rather than actually making a serious attempt at assassination.

BeepKillBeep 01-15-2020 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity (Post 22082287)
I hate, hate, hate to be a "cite please?" person, but where did you hear this?

Left Hand of Dorkness posted a link. I explicitly tried to stay away from posting this in hopes that it wouldn't become a tangent on the credibility of the evidence revealed so far, which granted is not much. I don't know if it has been corroborated. So, I tried to keep it purely in the hypothetical. Here is the original source material as well.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploa...attachment.pdf

Velocity 01-15-2020 10:44 AM

OK, thanks.

Anyhow, if it becomes a thing that Trump ordered a hit on a US ambassador, he'd be yanked out of office pronto. It would make Watergate look like nothing in comparison.

Defensive Indifference 01-15-2020 10:46 AM

Here's another pretty good explainer. The stuff about the apparent surveillance of Yovanovitch is toward the end of the article.

It sounds to me like Hyde is claiming to have a contact inside the embassy who is able to provide information on Yovanovitch's movements. On 3/25, he tells Parnas, "she is being moved tomorrow". The next day Hyde reports to Parnas that Yovanovitch is not being moved. He says his "contacts" can't keep asking what's going on because it will draw attention. He then says: "If you want her out they need to make contact with security forces." I interpret this as meaning, "If you want Yovanovitch to be moved outside the embassy, my contacts can talk to the security forces and make it happen." How this would be accomplished I have no idea. Hyde is a former Marine, and I believe Marines handle embassy security, so there's certainly the possibility that he had contacts there who could influence her movements. But if Hyde is telling Parnas he can arranng for Yovanovitch to leave the embassy, I have to ask, "What the actual fuck?" I mean, there's really no innocuous explanation for that. Whether they're trying to kill her or simply discredit her somehow, it's fucked up.

CarnalK 01-15-2020 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyrate (Post 22082291)
I wish I had your optimism. I'm pretty sure most people aren't agog at the idea you can pay someone to carry out basic surveillance, even in Ukraine.

Most people don't express being agog with "lol".

Eta: not that this isn't shady as fuck.

BobLibDem 01-15-2020 10:54 AM

I thought I heard that Hyde is running for Congress from Connecticut. This has got to kill his campaign, if not lead to charges against him. What legitimate reason would he have to monitor the ambassador's movements? And this damning quote: "They are moving her tomorrow . . . The guys over they [sic] asked me what I would like to do and what is in it for them." WTF?

Who was directing Mr. Hyde? If it came from the Golfer-in-Chief, I'd like to be the first to call it the Strange Case of Doctor Jackoff and Mister Hyde.

Little Nemo 01-15-2020 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity (Post 22082316)
Anyhow, if it becomes a thing that Trump ordered a hit on a US ambassador, he'd be yanked out of office pronto. It would make Watergate look like nothing in comparison.

Dick Cheney would be saying that's going too far.

Defensive Indifference 01-15-2020 11:04 AM

To be fair, it also looks like Hyde is pretty unstable. His interactions with the media and pretty much everyone appear to be a long stream of profanity. On May 16, 2019, Hyde turned up at Trump Doral Miami and may have had a mental health emergency:

Quote:

According to an “incident/investigation” report filed by the Doral, Florida, police department, on May 16, 2019, an officer was dispatched to the Trump National Doral Miami to deal with a “male in distress fearing for his life.” That man was Hyde. The report noted that Hyde explained to the police officer that “he was in fear for his life, was set up and that a hit man was out to get him. Mr. Hyde spoke about e-mails he sent that may have placed his life in jeopardy. Mr. Hyde explained several times that he was paranoid that someone was out to get him.”

The report stated that Hyde cited “a variety of different names, contacts and provided information in reference to why he felt his life was in danger.” After being taken into custody by the police, according to the report, “Mr. Hyde continued to act paranoid telling us not to stop next to certain vehicles…[H]e explained that he was scared due to several painting workers and landscape workers trying to do harm to him because they weren’t working. Additionally Mr. Hyde explained that his computer was being hacked by Secret Service. And then went on to further explain that the secret service [sic] was arrival [sic] on the premises watching him.”

The police report said that “it was determined that Mr. Hyde was suffering from a [redacted],” that he was “transported to [redacted] for further evaluation,” and that a “crisis form was filled and filed.”

The report classified the incident as “Baker/Marchman Act.” In Florida, the Baker Act and the Marchman Act allow for holding people who might harm themselves involuntarily for assessment. (The Baker Act specifically refers to persons who might be suffering from a mental illness.) The report did not say what happened with Hyde after he was transported to the redacted location. But Hyde posted a note on Instagram stating that he had been “Baker Acted” for nine days and placed into “a facility” where his “mental, emotional, and physical self” were “pushed.” He noted that he had passed “all medicals, physicals, psych exams and diagnoses with flying colors.” Hyde, a former Marine, also wrote, “I’m not a traitor or a colluder or a conspiracy theorist.” And he added, “eff you and your intelligence agencies or whatever or whoever was or is effing with me.”
Cite.

And, at least from the WhatsApp messages I saw excerpted (I haven't had a chance to read to source documents yet), it looks like Hyde was sending all these messages to Parnas, and Parnas wasn't responding much.

Hyde somehow has the means to donate tens of thousands of dollars to various Republicans, and this has got him lots of photos with people like Trump. But now I'm starting to lean to the explanation that he's a mentally unwell guy who got Parnas's contact information and Parnas probably wants him to go away. Parnas's lawyer said as much in a Tweet, denying that Parnas was involved in any surveillance and saying that they believe Hyde's "activities to be a reflection on his dubious mental state."

Little Nemo 01-15-2020 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness (Post 22082297)
It's pretty amazing to read. Also being an incurable optimist, I suspect that Dr. Jekyll's alter-ego was just playing at being a mob boss because he's a rich idiot and got caught up in using innuendo, rather than actually making a serious attempt at assassination.

Tough talk is one thing. But Hyde says he was actually talking with people and discussing prices.

BeepKillBeep 01-15-2020 11:08 AM

And that's why I'm posted this as a hypothetical. Certainly, the optics for Hyde are really bad. At least you would think so. Even if he was just being an Internet tough guy and didn't mean anything by it, the level of creepy context in the text messages is not good.

Defensive Indifference 01-15-2020 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defensive Indifference (Post 22082345)
To be fair, it also looks like Hyde is pretty unstable. His interactions with the media and pretty much everyone appear to be a long stream of profanity. On May 16, 2019, Hyde turned up at Trump Doral Miami and may have had a mental health emergency:

Cite.

And, at least from the WhatsApp messages I saw excerpted (I haven't had a chance to read to source documents yet), it looks like Hyde was sending all these messages to Parnas, and Parnas wasn't responding much.

Hyde somehow has the means to donate tens of thousands of dollars to various Republicans, and this has got him lots of photos with people like Trump. But now I'm starting to lean to the explanation that he's a mentally unwell guy who got Parnas's contact information and Parnas probably wants him to go away. Parnas's lawyer said as much in a Tweet, denying that Parnas was involved in any surveillance and saying that they believe Hyde's "activities to be a reflection on his dubious mental state."

Fixed link: https://www.motherjones.com/politics...ort-last-year/

Little Nemo 01-15-2020 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherCadfael (Post 22082024)
"Leave the gun. Take the canolli"? Certainly.


A targetted strike on an enemy commander in a theater of war? No.

Just to circle back to this; are you saying there might be circumstances in which having an American ambassador killed might be act of war? If so, what would those circumstances be? And what country or group would this act of war be directed against?

CarnalK 01-15-2020 11:21 AM

He was obviously referring to the Soleimani killing. " on Yovanavitch" didn't originally appear in the title of the thread. (see post #4)

Little Nemo 01-15-2020 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defensive Indifference (Post 22082345)
To be fair, it also looks like Hyde is pretty unstable. His interactions with the media and pretty much everyone appear to be a long stream of profanity. On May 16, 2019, Hyde turned up at Trump Doral Miami and may have had a mental health emergency:

And, at least from the WhatsApp messages I saw excerpted (I haven't had a chance to read to source documents yet), it looks like Hyde was sending all these messages to Parnas, and Parnas wasn't responding much.

Hyde does look pretty unstable. But Lev Parnas was communicating with Hyde and was aware enough of what Hyde was saying to respond to him even after Hyde outlined his plans.

If Hyde was some lone nut who started this all on his own, Parnas should have contacted the State Department and told them there was a crazy man stalking Yovanovitch.

TonySinclair 01-15-2020 11:24 AM

"There is nothing in the Constitution prohibiting the assassination of the ambassador to Ukraine."
--- Mitch McConnell, probably

Euphonious Polemic 01-15-2020 11:28 AM

Sure it's impeachable.

If there was undisputed evidence that Trump seriously ordered the US ambassador to the Ukraine to be murdered, then I'm sure the US House would vote to impeach.

And then Moscow Mitch and the rest of the traitors would not convict him in the senate.

Euphonious Polemic 01-15-2020 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity (Post 22082316)
OK, thanks.

Anyhow, if it becomes a thing that Trump ordered a hit on a US ambassador, he'd be yanked out of office pronto. It would make Watergate look like nothing in comparison.

I disagree. Republicans would circle the wagons, as usual.

Lies would be told. Stories muddled.
"BOTH SIDES! HILLARY MURDERED PEOPLE!"
Moscow Mitch would come to Trump's defense.
Yovanavitch would be smeared by Fox News.
Republican politicians would humph and haw and say "that's not a good thing, but...."

In short; Nothing would change.

QuickSilver 01-15-2020 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo (Post 22082376)
Hyde does look pretty unstable. But Lev Parnas was communicating with Hyde and was aware enough of what Hyde was saying to respond to him even after Hyde outlined his plans.

If Hyde was some lone nut who started this all on his own, Parnas should have contacted the State Department and told them there was a crazy man stalking Yovanovitch.

Hyde must have trouble with metal detectors what with all the loose screws in his head. However, Parnas had a reason not to attract attention of authorities. He was already in well over his head with Giuliani's plot.

jo1010 01-15-2020 11:48 AM

I don't know what to make of this story. Hyde seems to have a few screws loose, so it's possible he imagined he was part of a plot against the ambassador. But if I understand the timeline correctly, there was only a few weeks between these messages and the ambassador leaving the country because her life was in danger. Is it just a weird coincidence that Hyde was sending messages about an imaginary assassination plot just a few weeks before she was forced to leave? Or was he part of something that was very real? It's interesting too that Parnas mostly didn't respond to Hyde's messages? Was that because he thought the guy was insane and had no idea what he was talking about? Or did he not want to leave an electronic trail? He did respond to one message which indicates he was at least reading them, not completely ignoring them like you might expect if they were the ravings of a lunatic. It's understandable that everyone from the Democrats to the media are being cautious with this story for now.

elucidator 01-15-2020 11:56 AM

The real crux of the biscuit is Giuliani inserting himself into the proceedings, "with the knowledge and consent", etc. They may have been trying to make her a mite nervous, supply a bit of motivation to get the Hell out of Dodge. But nothing more than that,

Ann Hedonia 01-15-2020 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonySinclair (Post 22082377)
"There is nothing in the Constitution prohibiting the assassination of the ambassador to Ukraine."
--- Mitch McConnell, probably

The Republicans will probably shift the conversation to what a horrible person she was and how she deserved to be murdered and present these fictional bad acts as a valid defense.

And they’re not going to get Trump on this without a full scale RICO investigation and no one’s going to go there while he’s in office. Look how long it took the feds to nail John Gotti. Trump has the crime boss methodology nailed down, he’s not going to instruct anyone to do anything illegal, he’ll merely mention illegal things that he thinks should happen and that will inspire his cronies to act on their own.

drad dog 01-15-2020 12:24 PM

Depends, was it going to be on Fifth Avenue?

Buck Godot 01-15-2020 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bump (Post 22082031)
I would think that definitive proof of a hit ordered on Yovanovitch at Trump's order or with his assent would fall under the umbrella of attempted murder- she's an American citizen and as such, should have any issues handled through the justice system, not through extrajudicial means.

I can't see how anyone in the GOP or right-wing could actually defend that- it would be deliberate flaunting of the rule of law and in effect saying that it's ok to murder people as long as you're the President.

Also... I can see that resulting in a trial once he's out of office.

<<Underlining mine>>

I think the key would be the definition of definitive proof. So long as there is some possible (not necessarily plausible) scenario under which Trump could be innocent, then the senate and Trump's supporters will hang onto that fig leaf for dear life. "On the phone call to the hit man Trump never said he wanted Yavonovitch murdered he said he wanted her 'taken out'. Perhaps he was just referring to her being removed from office?"

Even if the evidence is overwhelming as long as any one piece can be discredited, that is what they will concentrate on. "The Democrats claim to have 99 witnesses who say Trump kill Yavonovich in broad daylight, Witness number 72 was so nearsighted that she couldn't have actually seen Trump pull the trigger, and she was a registered Democrat to boot. The whole thing is a phony witch hunt."

Try2B Comprehensive 01-15-2020 01:20 PM

This story is nuts, but flimsy so far. I am afraid that the GOP represents the Koch Bros. and their kind, and so if it is not in the interests of people like that to remove Trump, it won't happen. Not even for murder/assassination. What are a few lives compared to tax cuts and deregulation?

It is cynical to view the GOP as that monstrous, but as someone else asked, "have you been following the news?"

Try2B Comprehensive 01-15-2020 01:26 PM

Also, if Trump can fire her on a whim, why get her whacked?

HMS Irruncible 01-15-2020 01:34 PM

The question is moot because, whatever evidence exists, Republicans will drown it out with procedural complaints and whataboutism and bad-faith jeremiads about "due process." That is how the people in this thread saying "attempted murder is impeachable" will avoid engaging with an actual impeachment for this crime.

To be clear, when you're part of a conspiracy, you're part of every crime that the conspiracy committed. So if these Parnas texts are the tip of the iceberg that they appear to be, then Trump may be culpable for conspiracy to commit murder.

QuickSilver 01-15-2020 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive (Post 22082589)
Also, if Trump can fire her on a whim, why get her whacked?

Dead ambassadors tell no tales.

Keep in mind this appears to have taken place well after significant assfuckery was well under way between the Giuliani and the new Ukrainian administration. Something that Yovanovitch was already well aware of.

That said, I doubt Trump issued such an order. But if something terrible were to happen to her, it would certainly have made his day.

Max S. 01-15-2020 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong (Post 22082070)
I would hope this gets a full investigation.
  • Trump says that Yovanovich "will go through some things"
  • Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.
  • Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you're willing to pay.
  • Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she's in danger. Leave the country immediately.

WTF is all that?

My question from the cheap seats, do we have definite dates for all of these things?

The date July 25, 2019 is burned into my memory for bullet point #1.

According to the screenshots in the Twitter posts JohnT shared in the Impeachment Inquiry thread, bullet point #2 dates to March 25 and March 26, 2019.

Not sure what the date is for bullet point #3. I can only guess that it is also March 25, 2019.

I don't know how to date bullet point #4, but it must have been on or before April 25, 2019. April 25, 2019 was the day Ambassador Yovanovitch returned to Washington D.C.

ETA: So, re-ordering the list chronologically:
  • 3/25-26/2019 - Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.
  • 3/25/2019 - Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you're willing to pay.
  • On or before 4/25/2019 - Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she's in danger. Leave the country immediately.
  • 7/25/2019 - Trump says that Yovanovich "will go through some things"

~Max

QuickSilver 01-15-2020 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max S. (Post 22082633)
My question from the cheap seats, do we have definite dates for all of these things?

The date July 25, 2019 is burned into my memory for bullet point #1.

According to the screenshots in the Twitter posts JohnT shared in the Impeachment Inquiry thread, bullet point #2 dates to March 25 and March 26, 2019.

Not sure what the date is for bullet point #3. I can only guess that it is also March 25, 2019.

I don't know how to date bullet point #4, but it must have been on or before April 25, 2019. April 25, 2019 was the day Ambassador Yovanovitch returned to Washington D.C.

ETA: So, re-ordering the list chronologically:
  • 3/25-26/2019 - Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.
  • 3/25/2019 - Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you're willing to pay.
  • On or before 4/25/2019 - Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she's in danger. Leave the country immediately.
  • 7/25/2019 - Trump says that Yovanovich "will go through some things"

~Max

This is a good way of looking at it. It may be noteworthy that July 25th also happens to be the date that Trump was at peak pique about Ukraine's Zelensky doing him "a big favor tho". So saying, "she's going to go through some things", was Trump's Goodfella way of impressing upon Zelensky how serious he was about extracting that favor and the length he was willing to go to get his way.

Little Nemo 01-15-2020 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonySinclair (Post 22082377)
"There is nothing in the Constitution prohibiting the assassination of the ambassador to Ukraine."
--- Mitch McConnell, probably

"Is Marie Yovanavitch dead? No. Therefore, the President did not have her murdered. And it's not an impeachable offense for a President to make plans to murder an American ambassador. That's just contingency planning."

RioRico 01-15-2020 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive (Post 22082589)
Also, if Trump can fire her on a whim, why get her whacked?

For the optics. A graphic warning to all Deep Staters law-abiding folks not to FUCK with the Don.

Let's be kind. "Hit" was a metaphor for "removed" aka fired. Just terminated without extreme prejudice. Successfully, stealthily discrediting someone so they're unable to continue their job is what intel folk call "a nice clean hit", right? Media trash are "hit pieces", right? Only career death, not a bloody corpse.

No, let's be paranoid. This POTUS wants his opponents (that's most of us) jailed or dead. He could process a 5th Ave crowd with an Uzi and not be convicted. The nightmare is real. Even paranoiacs have enemies.


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