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-   -   Harriet Tubman to Replace Andrew Jackson on $20 Bill (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=790951)

PastTense 04-20-2016 11:59 AM

Harriet Tubman to Replace Andrew Jackson on $20 Bill
 
Quote:

Treasury Secretary Jack Lew on Wednesday will announce plans to both keep Alexander Hamilton on the front of the $10 bill and to knock Andrew Jackson off the front of the $20 in favor of Harriet Tubman, sources tell POLITICO.

Lew is expected to roll out a set of changes that also include putting leaders of the women’s suffrage movement on the back of the $10 bill, and incorporating civil rights era leaders and other important moments in American history into the $5 bill.

Also, Jackson isn’t getting completely booted off the $20 bill. He’s likely to remain on the back.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...10-bill-222204

And for those who don't know who Harriet Tubman is:
Quote:

Harriet Tubman (born Araminta Ross; c. 1822[1] – March 10, 1913) was an African-American abolitionist, humanitarian, and, during the American Civil War, a Union spy. Born into slavery, Tubman escaped and subsequently made some thirteen missions to rescue approximately seventy enslaved families and friends,[2] using the network of antislavery activists and safe houses known as the Underground Railroad. She later helped abolitionist John Brown recruit men for his raid on Harpers Ferry, and in the post-war era was an active participant in the struggle for women's suffrage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Tubman

I see no reason to waste money changing the existing situation.

Smapti 04-20-2016 12:02 PM

$20 bills? Do people still use those?

running coach 04-20-2016 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smapti (Post 19274821)
$20 bills? Do people still use those?

In town.

Measure for Measure 04-20-2016 12:11 PM

Andrew Jackson is one this message board's favorite historical villains. His demotion is entirely proper. I'm wondering about who his constituency is.

Dangerosa 04-20-2016 12:15 PM

I was so hoping they wouldn't pick a black woman. Not that Tubman wasn't a hero, but because now they can say "we already have a black person on our money, no need for Obama or MLK" - "we already have a woman on our money - why bother with Sandra Day O'Connor or Eleanor Roosevelt." "We already have a minority on our money - what are you whining about, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans?" "See, we are diverse" - all in one shot.

Czarcasm 04-20-2016 12:18 PM

Good choice.

billfish678 04-20-2016 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Measure for Measure (Post 19274847)
Andrew Jackson is one this message board's favorite historical villains. His demotion is entirely proper. I'm wondering about who his constituency is.

I guess Bo and Luke Duke are going to have to rename their car yet again.

SmellMyWort 04-20-2016 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastTense (Post 19274809)

I see no reason to waste money changing the existing situation.

Our currency is being changed all the time, primarily to enhance the anti-counter fitting measures in the case of bills. Most of our coins have changed over the last few years for fairly mundane reasons. I think it will be nice to see this important historical figure on the $20. As far as cost, I would guess that a mere picture change costs much less than what is wasted on producing pennies and dollar bills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smapti (Post 19274821)
$20 bills? Do people still use those?

Do people use ATMs? Pretty much every ATM I've used in the last decade has given out multiples of $20. My bank drive through also give out primarily $20s.

running coach 04-20-2016 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfish678 (Post 19274875)
I guess Bo and Luke Duke are going to have to rename their car yet again.

It's the General Lee.

billfish678 04-20-2016 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by running coach (Post 19274889)
It's the General Lee.

And the car makes a whooshing sound. The word yet is critical here.

FlikTheBlue 04-20-2016 12:28 PM

Harriet Tubman to replace Jackson on $20 bill.
 
http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/20/news...man/index.html

There had been an announcement that a woman was going to appear on some $10 bills along with Hamilton on others. Now it turns out that it will instead be Jackson being removed from the $20 bill. He will be replaced by Harriet Tubman. I think this is a better decision than having two different versions of the $10 bill. Jackson seems like a good choice for removal given his treatment of Native Americans. What do you all think?

cochrane 04-20-2016 12:31 PM

Existing thread:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=790951

Mr. Kobayashi 04-20-2016 12:32 PM

I'd have replaced Jackson with the Cherokee chief John Ross just to piss on his strawberries even more, but that's just me. Harriet Tubman's a good choice though.

Czarcasm 04-20-2016 12:32 PM

This chart shows that $20's are still pretty popular.

Skammer 04-20-2016 12:38 PM

If I had to guess, I'd say that $20 bills are the most ubiquitous paper currency in the US after $1 bills due to the fact that they are dispensed in every ATM I've ever seen.

I live in Andrew Jackson territory. I drive through the towns of Old Hickory (his nickname) and Hermitage (his home) on my way to work every day. Part of that route is also along the Trail of Tears, his most shameful legacy.

In general, I'm not keen about erasing historical figures from places of honor based on 21st century sensibilities. I wouldn't want to rename those towns, for example, or nearby Nathan Bedford Forrest State Park (aka "Forrest forest"). However -- Tubman is an excellent choice for recognition, and the Treasury can't exactly go around making up new denominations for bills ("Hey everyone! Here's the new Tubman $25 bill!"). So I think this is a good approach.

I'm a little wary of a whole "set of changes" -- let's not get crazy with changing all our money multiple times. I don't want the Tubman Twenty changed in five years to someone else. Let's show a little restraint.

dracoi 04-20-2016 12:40 PM

If we're going with anyone who is not a President or founding father, then I suppose Tubman is as good a choice as any. The problem is that opening up the field this wide is going to devalue being on the currency, to me at least. It's one thing to pick the best choice out of 100 eligible candidates and something else to pick the best choice out of 100 million. No matter who you pick, they'll have some flaw or fail to represent some demographic so that no consensus can ever be built around that choice.

Removing Jackson is a non-issue for me. I don't hold his failings against him, and would tend to prefer keeping him there because I don't like any change to currency... but even restricting the field to Presidents and founding fathers, there are plenty of unquestionably better choices than Jackson.

Captain Amazing 04-20-2016 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smapti (Post 19274821)
$20 bills? Do people still use those?

They're the default in ATMs, so yes. I think all and all, this change is a mistake, but it's probably inevitable, given that Jackson has become the scapegoat for 150 years of US Indian policy.

bobot 04-20-2016 12:52 PM

Oh boy, conservatives are not going to like this. I don't know why, and I haven't yet heard any complaining, but it's got to be coming.

kayaker 04-20-2016 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Measure for Measure (Post 19274847)
Andrew Jackson is one this message board's favorite historical villains. His demotion is entirely proper. I'm wondering about who his constituency is.

Dude had a fine head of hair, got to give him that.

Do Not Taunt 04-20-2016 12:59 PM

I'm good with this change. Tubman seems like a good choice, but what's with keeping Jackson on the back? We don't put portraits on the back of our money. An underground railroad safehouse would be a better choice, keeping with displaying buildings on the back of bills and the abolitionist theme.

cmkeller 04-20-2016 01:12 PM

They wanted to put Rosa Parks on the back of the bill, but her picture refused to stay there.

Peremensoe 04-20-2016 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skammer (Post 19274926)
I'm a little wary of a whole "set of changes" -- let's not get crazy with changing all our money multiple times. I don't want the Tubman Twenty changed in five years to someone else. Let's show a little restraint.

There's no reason we couldn't have multiple circulating designs of a given denomination. That is, a consistent overall schema to readily distinguish denominations from one other, but with a handful of different figures individually represented at each. Those variations could be introduced one at a time, without pulling designs already circulating. Think of it as an ongoing national history lesson.

Sir T-Cups 04-20-2016 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmkeller (Post 19275043)
They wanted to put Rosa Parks on the back of the bill, but her picture refused to stay there.

This made me quite literally lol

Good play.

Really Not All That Bright 04-20-2016 01:37 PM

Somewhere, Liberal is doing a happy dance.

running coach 04-20-2016 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir T-Cups (Post 19275137)
This made me quite literally lol

Good play.

Agreed.

Fear Itself 04-20-2016 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Do Not Taunt (Post 19274996)
I'm good with this change. Tubman seems like a good choice, but what's with keeping Jackson on the back? We don't put portraits on the back of our money.

It might not be a portrait. It could be a group rendering, like the signing of the Declaration of Independence on the back of the two dollar bill.

Kimballkid 04-20-2016 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smapti (Post 19274821)
$20 bills? Do people still use those?

I burn mine to keep warm.

Kimballkid 04-20-2016 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dangerosa (Post 19274860)
no need for Obama or MLK"

Unless you plan to assassinate Obama, he's not eligible anyway.

hajario 04-20-2016 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dangerosa (Post 19274860)
I was so hoping they wouldn't pick a black woman. Not that Tubman wasn't a hero, but because now they can say "we already have a black person on our money, no need for Obama or MLK" - "we already have a woman on our money - why bother with Sandra Day O'Connor or Eleanor Roosevelt." "We already have a minority on our money - what are you whining about, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans?" "See, we are diverse" - all in one shot.

Or Sacajawea or Susan B Anthony. Good lord, that was a ridiculous thing to say.

Asimovian 04-20-2016 01:53 PM

Moderator Note
 
FlikTheBlue's thread merged into the already-existing thread by PastTense. Sorry for any resulting confusion.

JKellyMap 04-20-2016 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Measure for Measure (Post 19274847)
Andrew Jackson is one this message board's favorite historical villains. His demotion is entirely proper. I'm wondering about who his constituency is.

Lydia, the Tattooed Lady.

("...up the hill comes Andrew Jackson...")

JRDelirious 04-20-2016 02:07 PM

BTW if I understand correctly, estimated replacement date for general circulation is 2020 -- plenty of time for an unsympathetic new administration or filibustering Senate faction to change things yet again, I'd fear...

John Bredin 04-20-2016 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skammer (Post 19274926)
In general, I'm not keen about erasing historical figures from places of honor based on 21st century sensibilities.

How about the sensibilities of their own time? I'm fairly certain that Andrew Jackson would not have wanted to be on paper money printed by a central bank, considering he opposed the Second Bank of the United States and issued the Specie Circular. So his fans (if he has any) as well as his foes should be happy with the move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobot
Oh boy, conservatives are not going to like this.

Depends on how conservative; the gold-bug hyperlibertarians still agree with Jackson's opposition to paper money and having a central bank. :rolleyes:

thelurkinghorror 04-20-2016 02:28 PM

Decent enough, keeping with my thoughts that the person on money should be some badass rather than someone who presided over economic expansion or some boring stuff :). And I like that she's not too recent, much preferable to MLK (or JFK), who is kind of "default" in these situations.
Quote:

Originally Posted by FlikTheBlue (Post 19274893)
http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/20/news...man/index.html

There had been an announcement that a woman was going to appear on some $10 bills along with Hamilton on others. Now it turns out that it will instead be Jackson being removed from the $20 bill. He will be replaced by Harriet Tubman. I think this is a better decision than having two different versions of the $10 bill. Jackson seems like a good choice for removal given his treatment of Native Americans. What do you all think?

I think he was the best candidate for removal because he was the least important in our history no matter what negative things he did, compared to Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Hamilton, Grant*, or Franklin. I suppose if Salmon P. Chase was still on a bill he'd be the best candidate.

*Maybe you could make the case for him though
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skammer (Post 19274926)
If I had to guess, I'd say that $20 bills are the most ubiquitous paper currency in the US after $1 bills due to the fact that they are dispensed in every ATM I've ever seen.

I assume Smapti's comment was a joke about current debit/credit card popularity.

I don't know if this is still current, but $20 bills are the most popular in the US last I heard, but $100 are the most popular bill overall due to overseas use.

Chronos 04-20-2016 02:40 PM

I've no objection to this. Jackson was not particularly praiseworthy, and Tubman was. Though I should point out that Jackson was relatively badass, as presidents go, if that's our criterion (admittedly not as badass as TR, of course).

lost4life 04-20-2016 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmkeller (Post 19275043)
They wanted to put Rosa Parks on the back of the bill, but her picture refused to stay there.

Stolen.

Loach 04-20-2016 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobot (Post 19274968)
Oh boy, conservatives are not going to like this. I don't know why, and I haven't yet heard any complaining, but it's got to be coming.

They are replacing a Democrat with a Republican. What could they possibly object to?

Iggy 04-20-2016 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobot (Post 19274968)
Oh boy, conservatives are not going to like this. I don't know why, and I haven't yet heard any complaining, but it's got to be coming.

At least some of the more conservative sites seem ok with it. Sure, some think others would have been a better choice but so do many Dopers. No complaints that Tubman is not worthy.

From Breitbart:
Harriet Tubman to Replace Andrew Jackson on $20 Bill
No real partisan lean to the report itself, just the headline embracing Tubman as a Republican.

National Review Online:
Do Not Weep for Andrew Jackson
Quote:

Originally Posted by National review Online
As for Tubman, I would argue that she’s not the most influential woman in American history; that honor should rightly belong to Harriet Beecher Stowe, author of Uncle Tom’s Cabin, the most important of all American novels. But Tubman herself is a worthy honoree, the first ordinary citizen on paper money and a woman of great courage and powerful Christian witness. ...


PastTense 04-20-2016 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peremensoe (Post 19275100)
There's no reason we couldn't have multiple circulating designs of a given denomination. That is, a consistent overall schema to readily distinguish denominations from one other, but with a handful of different figures individually represented at each. Those variations could be introduced one at a time, without pulling designs already circulating. Think of it as an ongoing national history lesson.

So you think this situation will never happen: Little old lady receives new Tubman bill at the supermarket in change, not realizing it at the time. Later when she discovers it she goes to the police: "The supermarket gave me counterfeit money!!!"

Tom Tildrum 04-20-2016 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobot (Post 19274968)
Oh boy, conservatives are not going to like this. I don't know why, and I haven't yet heard any complaining, but it's got to be coming.

The reaction I've seen has been favorable, especially since Tubman is often portrayed carrying a gun.

Czarcasm 04-20-2016 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastTense (Post 19275368)
So you think this situation will never happen: Little old lady receives new Tubman bill at the supermarket in change, not realizing it at the time. Later when she discovers it she goes to the police: "The supermarket gave me counterfeit money!!!"

So what? She will discover she is wrong, and the world will continue to spin.

Bone 04-20-2016 02:53 PM

Tubman is solid. Should use this picture.

aceplace57 04-20-2016 02:56 PM

Considering how money is used these days. I'm not sure having your face on it is such an exalted honor anymore.

Tubman is an important historical figure and it was time for a new face on our currency. Congrats are in order.

I'd like to see a new face on the $20 every decade. Honor ten people every century..

billfish678 04-20-2016 02:57 PM

Hey, she helped Lincoln defeat those evil Southern Vampires as well...

dracoi 04-20-2016 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peremensoe (Post 19275100)
There's no reason we couldn't have multiple circulating designs of a given denomination. That is, a consistent overall schema to readily distinguish denominations from one other, but with a handful of different figures individually represented at each. Those variations could be introduced one at a time, without pulling designs already circulating. Think of it as an ongoing national history lesson.

We already do that with the state quarters, so there's definitely precedent.

Thudlow Boink 04-20-2016 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bone (Post 19275388)
Tubman is solid. Should use this picture.

Harriet Tubman as badass action hero—I like it.

thelurkinghorror 04-20-2016 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos (Post 19275335)
I've no objection to this. Jackson was not particularly praiseworthy, and Tubman was. Though I should point out that Jackson was relatively badass, as presidents go, if that's our criterion (admittedly not as badass as TR, of course).

Not suggesting he wasn't, just that his replacement should also break heads and/or hearts.

TR bills wouldn't be spendable because each one would punch its way through your wallet.

Rick Kitchen 04-20-2016 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smapti (Post 19274821)
$20 bills? Do people still use those?

They're the only thing that come out of ATMs. What do you get?

Kimballkid 04-20-2016 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror (Post 19275442)
TR bills wouldn't be spendable because each one would punch its way through your wallet.

Plus, it would be hard to get that big stick in there.

Iggy 04-20-2016 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen (Post 19275445)
They're the only thing that come out of ATMs. What do you get?

I get US$50 bills. Only US currency the machines will dispense. But I'm outside the US and wouldn't know what the Stateside machines are spitting out these days.

When I withdraw local currency (Cayman dollars) I get CI$25 and CI$50 bills, equivalent to US$31.25 and US$62.50 respectively.


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