Straight Dope Message Board

Straight Dope Message Board (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/index.php)
-   The Game Room (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   NFL coaching carousel 2018 season edition (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=868096)

dalej42 12-30-2018 05:49 PM

NFL coaching carousel 2018 season edition
 
It’s almost Black Monday so a bunch of coaches will be getting fired tomorrow or early next week.

Who stays and who goes?

I’m sure Dirk Koetter at Tampa Bay is done.
Marvin Lewis’ time is up in Cincy.
Steve Wilks is one and done in Arizona.

Jay Gruden should be done in Washington but somehow I think he’s getting another year. He can’t be blamed for losing two QBs to injury and the Redskins looked good the first part of the season, but the final results still show yet another mediocre Redskins team.

Atamasama 12-30-2018 06:17 PM

Somebody is going to be gone in Carolina but my gut says not Rivera.

dalej42 12-30-2018 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atamasama (Post 21403462)
Somebody is going to be gone in Carolina but my gut says not Rivera.



It should be Cam Newton.

dalej42 12-30-2018 06:35 PM

NBC sports is reporting that Dirk Koetter has already been fired by Tampa Bay.

ElvisL1ves 12-30-2018 06:49 PM

Todd Bowles must already have his desk cleaned out.

Atamasama 12-30-2018 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalej42 (Post 21403474)
It should be Cam Newton.

Iíve been predicting a short career for him for years now. The way he plays, he doesnít protect himself at all. In fact, he plays more like a RB than a QB so heíll probably hit a wall at 30 like most other RBs.

He turns 30 in May, just FYI.

dalej42 12-30-2018 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21403514)
Todd Bowles must already have his desk cleaned out.



ESPN just reported that Bowles is fired.

ElvisL1ves 12-31-2018 06:59 AM

The Jaguars are keeping Marrone and the full front office staff, apparently blaming their season on injuries.

Atamasama 12-31-2018 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21404079)
The Jaguars are keeping Marrone and the full front office staff, apparently blaming their season on injuries.

As long as they totally move on from Bortles.

dalej42 12-31-2018 08:41 AM

Steve Wilks out in Arizona. Vance Joseph out in Denver.

MadTheSwine 12-31-2018 08:53 AM

Patricia. Lions can't really suffer another season with him. Stafford is gone also.

dalej42 12-31-2018 09:02 AM

Adam Gase also out in Miami, looks like the carousel is going to be a fun one this year.

asahi 12-31-2018 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadTheSwine (Post 21404201)
Patricia. Lions can't really suffer another season with him. Stafford is gone also.

I'm rarely in favor of a 1-and-done ouster, but Patricia should be gone. There was enough controversy in his background to shit-can him before the season even started. Now that he's yet another Bill Belichick coaching tree flame-out, this is an opportunity for the Lions to go out and get a real coach who can command the respect of not only the team but the franchise and community.

enalzi 12-31-2018 09:26 AM

Marvin Lewis is finally out in Cinci.

asahi 12-31-2018 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalej42 (Post 21404179)
Steve Wilks out in Arizona. Vance Joseph out in Denver.

The Broncs have shown flashes of brilliance under Joseph, only to turn into smelly flatulence the next week. He had to know he was skating on razor thin ice.

asahi 12-31-2018 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enalzi (Post 21404258)
Marvin Lewis is finally out in Cinci.

<sigh>

I think Lewis is, in a lot of ways, a good coach. I know that Lewis can't take all the credit for Cincinnati's talent acquisition, but I think in this day and age, coaches - especially those who remain with a franchise as long as Lewis did - are at least somewhat involved in that process. I think Lewis hired a reasonably good staff around him. Maybe not spectacular in terms of play-calling but they developed talent and they developed systems that worked to players strengths.

The big knock against Lewis is the same that you could say of Andy Reid. They're both consistent coaches. They will get their teams ready to play, and occasionally, they will win a big game during the regular season. But they just can't seem to make the kinds of in-game adjustments needed to win the most important games that are played in January. I also think that he sometimes had too long a leash with some of his players (i.e. Burfect and others). Still, Lewis is a respectable coach and a respectable man. It's sad to see him go down like this. I do think he will get a coordinator job relatively quickly, and he should. He's fundamentally a good coach and leader. He just isn't elite when it comes to managing the entire team.

DCnDC 12-31-2018 09:47 AM

Marvin Lewis isn't going to be out of work long. The man unfucked the Bengals, who at the time were very much "the Bungles." If I were in the market for a HC, I'd have Marvin Lewis on the phone immediately.

Atamasama 12-31-2018 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCnDC (Post 21404307)
Marvin Lewis isn't going to be out of work long. The man unfucked the Bengals, who at the time were very much "the Bungles." If I were in the market for a HC, I'd have Marvin Lewis on the phone immediately.

A lot of teams are clearly in the market, expect to see Lewis in this thread again as he gets a new job offer. Maybe some place like Tampa? (Or the Browns, how ironic would that be, especially if the Bengals promote Jackson to HC...)

Jackmannii 12-31-2018 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atamasama (Post 21404331)
A lot of teams are clearly in the market, expect to see Lewis in this thread again as he gets a new job offer. Maybe some place like Tampa? (Or the Browns, how ironic would that be, especially if the Bengals promote Jackson to HC...)

Lewis would be a perfect fit for the Browns if they're serious about moving up in the NFL arrest rankings. Cincinnati has had trouble winning playoff games, but they've consistently been at or near the top in bad behavior (#3 in arrests in recent years, compared to the Browns at #7).

Cleveland suffered a major blow in this regard when they traded Josh Gordon, but having Antonio Callaway, acquiring Lewis' services (and maybe landing Burfict in a new deal?) they could be champions very soon. :)

Atamasama 12-31-2018 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackmannii (Post 21404374)
Lewis would be a perfect fit for the Browns if they're serious about moving up in the NFL arrest rankings. Cincinnati has had trouble winning playoff games, but they've consistently been at or near the top in bad behavior (#3 in arrests in recent years, compared to the Browns at #7).

Cleveland suffered a major blow in this regard when they traded Josh Gordon, but having Antonio Callaway, acquiring Lewis' services (and maybe landing Burfict in a new deal?) they could be champions very soon. :)

Youíve given me an idea for a new variety of fantasy football. You draft at the beginning of the year and get points each week for arrests, fines, and suspensions.

enalzi 12-31-2018 01:06 PM

Dan Quinn stays, but Atlanta just fired their DC, OC, and ST Coach.

SenorBeef 12-31-2018 02:06 PM

Marvin Lewis has officially endorsed Hue Jackson as his replacement.

Man that would be amazing. So much dong hanging.

dalej42 12-31-2018 02:08 PM

Jay Gruden is giving a press conference now, so I guess he’s safe.

Railer13 12-31-2018 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalej42 (Post 21403601)
ESPN just reported that Bowles is fired.

ESPN also reporting that the Jets are asking permission to talk to Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy.

If the Chiefs allow Bieniemy to take another job, they need to stipulate that their defensive coordinator (Bob Sutton) goes with him in a package deal.

ElvisL1ves 01-01-2019 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorBeef (Post 21404796)
Marvin Lewis has officially endorsed Hue Jackson as his replacement.

As if a failed and fired coach's opinion carries any weight?

AIUI, after this round of firings there are today zero black head coaches in the NFL. Not a good look; the Rooney Rule is going to get a workout.

Airman Doors, USAF 01-01-2019 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21405908)
As if a failed and fired coach's opinion carries any weight?

AIUI, after this round of firings there are today zero black head coaches in the NFL. Not a good look; the Rooney Rule is going to get a workout.

Mike Tomlin might be surprised to hear that. I know I am.

ElvisL1ves 01-01-2019 08:51 AM

Oh, right. He's already overstayed his welcome too, though.

Airman Doors, USAF 01-01-2019 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21405969)
Oh, right. He's already overstayed his welcome too, though.

No he hasnít. OK, so even if we go with the assertion he canít beat New England, nobody else can, either. Heís been the head coach for 11 years and to date, through one major and one minor rebuild, has not yet had a losing season. Think thatís easy? Name the coaches with more than ten yearsí tenure who can say that. Not even your boy Belechick can say that.

ElvisL1ves 01-01-2019 09:19 AM

It has more to do with his team's constant indiscipline, both on and off the field (wouldn't Antonio Brown and Leveon Bell have made a difference yesterday?), leading to their failure to execute when it matters most. Tomlin's teams are chronic underachievers, and at some point you have to wonder if that needs to be fixed.

dalej42 01-01-2019 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21405908)
As if a failed and fired coach's opinion carries any weight?



AIUI, after this round of firings there are today zero black head coaches in the NFL. Not a good look; the Rooney Rule is going to get a workout.



Mike Tomlin is still the coach of the Steelers. There was a stupid parody account on Twitter suggesting he should be fired. The Antonio Brown situation doesn’t look good, but I highly doubt it Tomlin is going to be fired over it.

Chisquirrel 01-01-2019 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atamasama (Post 21404381)
Youíve given me an idea for a new variety of fantasy football. You draft at the beginning of the year and get points each week for arrests, fines, and suspensions.

Is defense still a monolithic block, or is Burfict the far and away 1st pick by himself?

Atamasama 01-01-2019 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chisquirrel (Post 21406157)
Is defense still a monolithic block, or is Burfict the far and away 1st pick by himself?

Burfict would be like the Todd Gurley of that league.

FoieGrasIsEvil 01-01-2019 03:35 PM

Burfict has never been arrested. He does his dirty shit ON the field (when he isn't suspended).

Due to concussions, he's probably done. The Bengals should move on from him at any rate. He's just a guy out there now, completely ineffective.

ElvisL1ves 01-01-2019 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalej42 (Post 21406095)
I highly doubt it Tomlin is going to be fired over it.

No, he won't, but that's because of the value the Rooneys put on loyalty and stability in the org chart. The Brown situation is far from the only reason Tomlin should be fired, though; it's just the latest example of a problem he won't fix or even address.

Chisquirrel 01-01-2019 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil (Post 21406566)
Burfict has never been arrested. He does his dirty shit ON the field (when he isn't suspended).

Due to concussions, he's probably done. The Bengals should move on from him at any rate. He's just a guy out there now, completely ineffective.

He's pretty close to leading the league in suspensions and fines, though.

asterion 01-01-2019 10:19 PM

I don't think Vance Joseph was really the problem in Denver. I think it's more that Elway is a bad GM.

I also hate how things like the coaching carousel bring out terrible think pieces. The WaPo had one about how the firings so far show that the NFL has a race problem. The whole thing reminds me of people who don't care about football and couldn't tell you the difference between a 3-4 and a 4-3 defense having strong opinions on Kapernick.

garygnu 01-02-2019 07:33 AM

But the NFL does have a race problem in the coaching ranks.

FoieGrasIsEvil 01-02-2019 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garygnu (Post 21407399)
But the NFL does have a race problem in the coaching ranks.

Does it really? Or does it seem to have one now, since all but one of the African American coaches have been fired?

ElvisL1ves 01-02-2019 08:24 AM

Something like 60 percent of the players are black. The coaching ranks are about as far from that as they have ever been, now almost as low as the front-office ranks.

The Rooney Rule was created for a reason, and that reason definitely still exists.

SenorBeef 01-02-2019 08:38 AM

What's the optimal percentage of black coaches? Is it also 60%?

ElvisL1ves 01-02-2019 09:39 AM

I would think so, generally. Coaches are all former players, even though many stopped in college before reaching the NFL. If the higher levels are demographically different from the lower ones, in any organization, that reflects either differing opportunities (perhaps subconsciously) or differing inherent capabilities. I hope you don't want to go with the latter.

Sir T-Cups 01-02-2019 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21405908)
As if a failed and fired coach's opinion carries any weight?

AIUI, after this round of firings there are today zero black head coaches in the NFL. Not a good look; the Rooney Rule is going to get a workout.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF (Post 21405960)
Mike Tomlin might be surprised to hear that. I know I am.

Anthony Lynn is also a bit surprised, but no one pays attention to the Chargers anyway.

Not liking that the Fins fired Adam Gase. He was absolutely NOT the problem down there and has actually gotten more success out of that roster than most would. Wouldn't hate it at all if he moved north and took over the Packers.

ElvisL1ves 01-02-2019 10:56 AM

Okay, I didn't even know the Chargers' coach's name, much less his race. So you're right. I'll maybe start to take a little notice again when they go back home in a few years.

As long as the Pats' division opponents all stay in disarray, as has been the case for a long time, that's a good thing. :)

Taber 01-02-2019 06:38 PM

A post I saw on reddit made a relatively convincing argument that the racial disparity is somewhat explained by the prevalence of offense in today's game, so head coaches from an offensive background do better than head coaches with a defensive background. The standard path to an offensive background is QB->QB coach->Offensive Coordinator->Head Coach, and for a defensive background tends to be CB->CB coach->Defensive Coordinator->Head Coach. Likely due to racial prejudice, QBs tend to be White, and CBs tend to be Black.

kenobi 65 01-02-2019 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taber (Post 21408679)
A post I saw on reddit made a relatively convincing argument that the racial disparity is somewhat explained by the prevalence of offense in today's game, so head coaches from an offensive background do better than head coaches with a defensive background. The standard path to an offensive background is QB->QB coach->Offensive Coordinator->Head Coach, and for a defensive background tends to be CB->CB coach->Defensive Coordinator->Head Coach. Likely due to racial prejudice, QBs tend to be White, and CBs tend to be Black.

That's an interesting point. Of last season's NFL offensive coordinators, only two were African-American: Eric Bienemy (who had been a running back in the NFL, and who is now in demand as a head coach prospect) and Byron Leftwich (who had played quarterback).

Of the four African-American head coaches who were just fired, all of them had risen through the coaching ranks on the defensive side of the ball (though Joseph had played quarterback in college, before switching to cornerback when he played in the NFL).

asahi 01-02-2019 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalej42 (Post 21406095)
Mike Tomlin is still the coach of the Steelers. There was a stupid parody account on Twitter suggesting he should be fired. The Antonio Brown situation doesn’t look good, but I highly doubt it Tomlin is going to be fired over it.

Here's my take on Tomlin.

I like Mikey. I think he's a stand-up guy. I think the players like him (mostly) and respect him (a little less but still, mostly). But there are too many individual personalities on that roster, and Tomlin needs to shut it the fuck down. I'm not sure I can entirely blame it on Tomlin - it's probably a front office problem as well. But Leveon Bell's situation was a distraction, and I think the discontent may have helped inspired Brown to act out. There's no way a Chuck Noll or Bill Cowher would have put up with that shit.

I know Jon Gruden (and his brother Jay) sow a lot of controversy for making statements with some of their roster moves, but I think they've accepted that they can be fired at any time and don't really care. Their philosophy is that as long as they're coach, they're in charge. They will impose their will on their players. I'm not necessarily saying the Grudens are great coaches, but if you look at all of the greatest coaches who've ever coached, they've all pretty much made it clear who's in charge, who's establishing boundaries, and what happens if those boundaries are crossed.

Ellis Dee 01-02-2019 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21407463)
Something like 60 percent of the players are black.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorBeef (Post 21407486)
What's the optimal percentage of black coaches? Is it also 60%?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21407614)
I would think so, generally. Coaches are all former players, even though many stopped in college before reaching the NFL. If the higher levels are demographically different from the lower ones, in any organization, that reflects either differing opportunities (perhaps subconsciously) or differing inherent capabilities. I hope you don't want to go with the latter.

According to the Washngton Post (and other random blogs), 70% of players in the NFL are black.

If the assumption is that coaches are all former players who maybe never progressed beyond college as a player, the demographics of college players would be the comparison to use. But even in the NCAA the ratio is still 57% of players are black according to this article in Time from 2015, so we're right back to the "something like 60 percent" you actually said.

I find the reddit theory interesting, though of course it doesn't dispute that the root of the disparity is racism.

kenobi 65 01-03-2019 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenobi 65 (Post 21408705)
That's an interesting point. Of last season's NFL offensive coordinators, only two were African-American: Eric Bienemy (who had been a running back in the NFL, and who is now in demand as a head coach prospect) and Byron Leftwich (who had played quarterback).

Adding to this (ran out of time earlier):

There were 10 African-American defensive coordinators in the NFL last year (eleven if you count Marvin Lewis, who apparently served as his own defensive coordinator in Cincinnati).

ElvisL1ves 01-03-2019 07:39 AM

It's too easy to blame racism instead of the Old Boys Club, though. Coaches are hired by owners, who do not come up from the same ranks and don't know the same people. The Rooney Rule was intended to break down some of that barrier by simply letting the decision-makers get to know a broader base of potential candidates for a coaching job. That's how Marvin Lewis got the Bengals job in the first place, for example - he went on a number of token interviews to comply with the rule, prepared for them anyway and impressed people, and eventually got well-recommended around the league as a serious prospect who make a team a winner. Sure, an owner might feel more comfortable socially with someone of his own background, but an owner likes winning a lot more.

kenobi 65 01-08-2019 12:24 AM

According to ESPN's Matt Schefter, the Packers have offered their head coaching position to Titans offensive coordinator Matt LaFleur.

He's spent two years as on offensive coordinator (Titans 2018, Rams 2017).

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/01/07/ma...ve-coordinator

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...ch/2495233002/

Ellis Dee 01-08-2019 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21409315)
It's too easy to blame racism instead of the Old Boys Club, though.

I blame the racism of the Old Boys Club.

SenorBeef 01-08-2019 05:45 AM

Browns are seriously considering Freddie Kitchens, the guy who took over as OC when Todd Haley was fired.

My preference is to leave the interim staff in place. 6-2 in the second half of the season. I don't want to disrupt the chemistry. Greg Williams gets a lot of shit, but it's hard to argue that he wasn't successful. The guys play hard for him and he seems to set a good atmosphere of accountability to the team.

But Kitchens is arguably more directly responsible for the team's resurgence, with night and day differences in offensive game planning. He may be one of the great upcoming offensive minds, I don't know. If we do retain the interim staff, and the Browns offense does really well, then Kitchens probably leaves for a HC job next year.

If the Browns think they've found someone special, I'd be okay with that.

Clawdio 01-08-2019 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenobi 65 (Post 21417924)
According to ESPN's Matt Schefter, the Packers have offered their head coaching position to Titans offensive coordinator Matt LaFleur.

He's spent two years as on offensive coordinator (Titans 2018, Rams 2017).

Seems like he has a pretty good history of being around successful offenses prior to 2018, but it seems weird that his most recent resume items are offensive coordinator of an abysmal Titans offense in 2018, and while it was a decent showing as Rams OC in 2017, the Rams seemed to take it to the next level without him in 2018.

SenorBeef 01-09-2019 03:45 AM

So Bruce Arians to Tampa Bay (he originally said he'd only come back to coach the Browns).

Packers signed Matt LeFleur, OC of the 2017 Rams and 2018 Titans.

Some guy named Kliff Kingsbury to Arizona, apparently a college coach with a losing record, but what they're banking on to be an unrecognized young offensive genius.
Quote:

[Fornelli] Kliff Kingsbury, who won 47% of his games as HC at Texas Tech, including a mark of 19-35 in the Big 12, couldn’t get another HC job in college this year but NFL teams want to give him an HC job. Why not hire him as your OC first? Sean McVay’s success gonna get a lot of GMs fired

Browns leading candidate seems to be Freddie Kitchens.

ElvisL1ves 01-09-2019 07:35 AM

The only team to interview Josh McDaniels (after blowing off the Colts last year) was the Packers, so he's staying in New England, evidently as the designated successor.

Greg Schiano, former Rutgers and Tampa Bay head coach, is out as DC at Ohio State, so he might get back into the NFL now. Belichick loves him.

DSYoungEsq 01-09-2019 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorBeef (Post 21420178)
Some guy named Kliff Kingsbury to Arizona, apparently a college coach with a losing record, but what they're banking on to be an unrecognized young offensive genius.

Oftentimes, a college HC who is highly prized is recognized as someone who has a good football mind, but who is, for whatever reason, poor at the recruiting aspect of college coaching. USC certainly liked him; they not only hired him immediately to take their OC spot, but they refused to let him talk to NFL teams originally, desperate to hang on to him. Still, making the jump directly to HC in the NFL will probably be a stretch; he likely won't have the credibility to impress the Cardinals' veterans.

SenorBeef 01-09-2019 11:11 AM

Browns promote Kitchens to HC. Dorsey has been doing everything right so far so I should probably trust his judgement. From what I've read, it seems like Kitchens is a very smart guy who thinks about the game on a higher level than the average coach, and he clearly has chemistry with Mayfield, so I'm optimistic.

Williams was dismissed. Which makes sense, it'd be too problematic to keep a former interim coach around in a lesser position.

Kind of a shit sandwich for him, though. He takes over the team in mid-season and presides over a massive turnaround, then gets the boot a few months later.

Folacin 01-09-2019 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorBeef (Post 21420178)
So Bruce Arians to Tampa Bay (he originally said he'd only come back to coach the Browns).

The best news here is that it will get him off the Chief's broadcast team next year.

SenorBeef 01-09-2019 11:57 AM

Fangio to Denver.

garygnu 01-09-2019 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorBeef (Post 21420859)
Fangio to Denver.

About time he got a head coaching gig. The 49ers should have promoted him when Harbaugh left.

Hamlet 01-09-2019 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq (Post 21420524)
Oftentimes, a college HC who is highly prized is recognized as someone who has a good football mind, but who is, for whatever reason, poor at the recruiting aspect of college coaching. USC certainly liked him; they not only hired him immediately to take their OC spot, but they refused to let him talk to NFL teams originally, desperate to hang on to him. Still, making the jump directly to HC in the NFL will probably be a stretch; he likely won't have the credibility to impress the Cardinals' veterans.

I was pretty shocked at the Kingsbury hire. He's a college coach who has a losing record (his predecessor at TT had a much better record) and zero experience coaching in the NFL. He went 16-21 with Patrick Mahomes, thought more of Davis Webb than Baker Mayfield, and had a consistently awful defense. Maybe give him a shot as OC, but head coach surprised the hell out of me. I think it will not go well for the Cards for the next few years. Chasing the next great offensive mind is hard enough. Giving the reins to one with no NFL coaching experience is a recipe for failure.

Atamasama 01-09-2019 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamlet (Post 21421009)
I was pretty shocked at the Kingsbury hire. He's a college coach who has a losing record (his predecessor at TT had a much better record) and zero experience coaching in the NFL. He went 16-21 with Patrick Mahomes, thought more of Davis Webb than Baker Mayfield, and had a consistently awful defense. Maybe give him a shot as OC, but head coach surprised the hell out of me. I think it will not go well for the Cards for the next few years. Chasing the next great offensive mind is hard enough. Giving the reins to one with no NFL coaching experience is a recipe for failure.

As a Seahawks fan I can certainly live with continued Arizona struggles. We have it tough enough being in the same division as the Rams.

SenorBeef 01-09-2019 10:29 PM

Jets sign Gase. That could end up being some drama.

kenobi 65 01-10-2019 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorBeef (Post 21422043)
Jets sign Gase. That could end up being some drama.

Which would appear to leave Mike McCarthy off the sidelines for 2019, as he had said that he was only interested in the Jets position.

MrKnowItAll 01-10-2019 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorBeef (Post 21420753)
Kind of a shit sandwich for him, though. He takes over the team in mid-season and presides over a massive turnaround, then gets the boot a few months later.

Yeah, that big of a turnaround deserves a shot at a full season. As for Kitchesn, it sounds to me like a case of someone hired to ensure a lot of excitement (i.e. offense). The trouble with that is that success in the league means "defense". So probably a lot of highlight real stuff, but ultimately a 500 season, and a bunch of clueless fans complaining about bad luck and officiating.

kenobi 65 01-10-2019 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorBeef (Post 21420753)
Kind of a shit sandwich for him, though. He takes over the team in mid-season and presides over a massive turnaround, then gets the boot a few months later.

On the other hand, you could also view it as maybe helping him to further rehabilitate his image within the league, and maybe set himself up for another head coaching gig next year.

FoieGrasIsEvil 01-10-2019 06:39 PM

Looks like the reports are that the Bengals are hiring the Ram's Zac Taylor, QB coach. TBA after the playoffs are over.

garygnu 01-10-2019 08:44 PM

Another white guy.

FoieGrasIsEvil 01-10-2019 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garygnu (Post 21423970)
Another white guy.

?????

What does that have to do with anything?

MrKnowItAll 01-10-2019 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil (Post 21423997)
?????

What does that have to do with anything?

Despite efforts and rules to make the coaching more racially representative (especially considering the balance among the players) the head coaching situation is rather pale-skinned right now. The race of the coach is in fact an issue in the NFL these days, whether we agree with it or not.

MrKnowItAll 01-10-2019 09:19 PM

The Rooney Rule

Atamasama 01-10-2019 10:42 PM

Yeah I’m the last person to make an issue of skin color (one way or the other) but I can’t help but notice how much the HC situation is shifting in a racial sense.

I’m tempted to say, “Who cares just hire the best person for the job,” but you know these decisions are always political and the Rooney Rule is a thing.

magnusblitz 01-11-2019 12:55 AM

Based off how everyone wants to get their own version of Sean McVay, clearly the Rooney Rule should be updated to require that all of McVay's offensive assistant coaches are black. The situation will then sort itself out after a couple seasons.

ElvisL1ves 01-12-2019 08:13 AM

The Fish are hiring Brian Flores, the Patriots' (acting) DC. That adds a black Hispanic to the ranks, if nothing else. Comments are already being made that the coach they fired, Gase, is of higher stature than anyone they interviewed.

asahi 01-12-2019 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorBeef (Post 21418039)
Browns are seriously considering Freddie Kitchens, the guy who took over as OC when Todd Haley was fired.

My preference is to leave the interim staff in place. 6-2 in the second half of the season. I don't want to disrupt the chemistry. Greg Williams gets a lot of shit, but it's hard to argue that he wasn't successful. The guys play hard for him and he seems to set a good atmosphere of accountability to the team.

But Kitchens is arguably more directly responsible for the team's resurgence, with night and day differences in offensive game planning. He may be one of the great upcoming offensive minds, I don't know. If we do retain the interim staff, and the Browns offense does really well, then Kitchens probably leaves for a HC job next year.

If the Browns think they've found someone special, I'd be okay with that.

There's a difference between being a coordinator and being a generalist. Some head coaches might be outperformed as coordinators, and some coordinators aren't good at managing personnel.

asahi 01-12-2019 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atamasama (Post 21424140)
Yeah Iím the last person to make an issue of skin color (one way or the other) but I canít help but notice how much the HC situation is shifting in a racial sense.

Iím tempted to say, ďWho cares just hire the best person for the job,Ē but you know these decisions are always political and the Rooney Rule is a thing.

An even bigger problem than the lack of black head coaches is that there should be more black executives and assistant coaches. I can't say I follow the transactions that closely, but it seems like a lot of NFL hiring is 'flavor of the month,' which is true not only for black assistants but white ones as well. However, I think the spotlight is magnified when black coaches are under consideration. I sometimes wonder if teams are under pressure to make a signing with a black coach once a name has been rumored to be under consideration. In reality, it's best for the black candidate and the team to have an interview and decide that this individual isn't quite what they're looking for, provided that they can document the reasons why in objective terms and apply the criteria to all candidates during the interview process.

asahi 01-12-2019 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamlet (Post 21421009)
I was pretty shocked at the Kingsbury hire. He's a college coach who has a losing record (his predecessor at TT had a much better record) and zero experience coaching in the NFL. He went 16-21 with Patrick Mahomes, thought more of Davis Webb than Baker Mayfield, and had a consistently awful defense. Maybe give him a shot as OC, but head coach surprised the hell out of me. I think it will not go well for the Cards for the next few years. Chasing the next great offensive mind is hard enough. Giving the reins to one with no NFL coaching experience is a recipe for failure.

The Kingsbury hire just boggles the mind. I guess the Bidwills have decided to go full on Bidwill.

FoieGrasIsEvil 01-12-2019 09:40 AM

I am well aware of the Rooney rule, I just thought it odd that another poster said "another white guy" when I posted that the Bengals were likely hiring Zac Taylor...after firing an inept black coach...I don't know, I just find the skin color thing to be irrelevant.

Atamasama 02-04-2019 01:27 PM

Just an FYI that the Bengals are officially hiring Zac Taylor as head coach:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...nchise-history

They had to wait until the Super Bowl was over since he was the QB coach for the Rams, and the Rams’ season didn’t officially end until yesterday.

That Don Guy 02-04-2019 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atamasama (Post 21469829)
Just an FYI that the Bengals are officially hiring Zac Taylor as head coach:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...nchise-history

They had to wait until the Super Bowl was over since he was the QB coach for the Rams, and the Ramsí season didnít officially end until yesterday.

Wasn't this hiring mentioned by Nantz and Romo during the game (it was "official, but not official")?

Rysto 02-04-2019 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Don Guy (Post 21470006)
Wasn't this hiring mentioned by Nantz and Romo during the game (it was "official, but not official")?

No, that was the Pats' Linebackers coach going to the Dolphins.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.