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-   -   Mall of America Assault and Incel Crime? (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=874118)

Kent Clark 04-15-2019 08:50 PM

Mall of America Assault an Incel Crime?
 
Lost in the news flood today was the formal charging of Emmanuel Deshawn Aranda for allegedly throwing a 5-year old boy from the third floor of the Mall of America.

And buried in the news coverage of that was this little nugget

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCCO
In an interview with police, Aranda said that he had come to the mall for the past few years to talk with women, but was rejected multiple times. He said the rejection made him aggressive.

According to the story, Aranda is a real piece of work in general. But is this going to turn him into some sort of MRA martyr?

Banquet Bear 04-15-2019 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunilou (Post 21592718)
According to the story, Aranda is a real piece of work in general. But is this going to turn him into some sort of MRA martyr?

...nope.

nearwildheaven 04-15-2019 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banquet Bear (Post 21592733)
...nope.

Agreed.

If he was a true incel, he would have killed the boy's mother and then thrown her over the balcony.

(That guy probably needs to spend the rest of his life in a mental institution. I hope the youngster makes a full recovery.)

Kimstu 04-15-2019 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunilou (Post 21592718)
According to the story, Aranda is a real piece of work in general. But is this going to turn him into some sort of MRA martyr?

No. There is a large overlap between self-identified "MRA"/"MGTOW"/"incel" movements and the white-nationalist "alt-right":
Quote:

While it’s true that the [alt-right] movement is most frequently described in terms of the self-stated, explicit white supremacy that defines many of its corners, for many of its members, the gateway drug that led them to join the alt-right in the first place wasn’t racist rhetoric but rather sexism: extreme misogyny evolving from male bonding gone haywire. [...]

Though various branches of the movement are often at odds with one another, they share a number of core beliefs — and a common meme-flavored vernacular — that serve to unite them in what is sometimes called “the manosphere.” This realm includes the “men’s rights” movement, pickup artist culture (a community of men also labeled “PUAs” that essentially makes a game of the art of bedding women), “incels” (men who are “involuntarily celibate” because they feel women reject them), and geek gatekeepers like supporters of the Gamergate movement.
Manosphere types stereotype young black men under the name "Tyrone", a racist caricature of "savage" animalism that attractive white women supposedly find irresistible because they are, according to manosphere types, stupid and immoral and unfit to be in charge of their own sexuality.

So no, the (primarily white) manosphere is definitely not going to try to make a black man like Aranda into some kind of "martyr". Their "martyrs" are the white misogynists who recklessly murder people out of a sense of aggrieved entitlement at not getting laid.

Urbanredneck 04-16-2019 05:09 PM

It was part of a show by black online commentator Jessie Peterson HERE.

He says that if the situation had been reversed, a white man deliberately throwing a black 5 year old boy off a balcony with an intent to kill him their would be riots and demonstrations. He says "where is White Lives Matter"? He also points out that he was a Somali immigrant who had a history of problems.

He is right, its barely been covered by the media. The media doesnt mention the boy was white. he also mentions some black activists have been calling for blacks to "Raise Hell". And that Black Lives Matter shut the mall down a couple years ago.

He finally tells white people they should speak up and stop taking this.

iiandyiiii 04-16-2019 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21594196)
It was part of a show by black online commentator Jessie Peterson HERE.

He says that if the situation had been reversed, a white man deliberately throwing a black 5 year old boy off a balcony with an intent to kill him their would be riots and demonstrations. He says "where is White Lives Matter"? He also points out that he was a Somali immigrant who had a history of problems.

He is right, its barely been covered by the media. The media doesnt mention the boy was white. he also mentions some black activists have been calling for blacks to "Raise Hell". And that Black Lives Matter shut the mall down a couple years ago.

He finally tells white people they should speak up and stop taking this.

Jesse Lee Peterson is a nutcase who "thanks God" for slavery, says most black people are "mentally retarded", that women shouldn't be able to vote, and many more insane and/or hateful things. His views can and should be ignored.

Banquet Bear 04-16-2019 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21594196)
It was part of a show by black online commentator Jessie Peterson HERE.

He says that if the situation had been reversed, a white man deliberately throwing a black 5 year old boy off a balcony with an intent to kill him their would be riots and demonstrations. He says "where is White Lives Matter"? He also points out that he was a Somali immigrant who had a history of problems.

He is right, its barely been covered by the media. The media doesnt mention the boy was white. he also mentions some black activists have been calling for blacks to "Raise Hell". And that Black Lives Matter shut the mall down a couple years ago.

He finally tells white people they should speak up and stop taking this.

...so that's a "nope" vote from you as well then ?

bobot 04-16-2019 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21594196)
... He says "where is White Lives Matter"? ...
He finally tells white people they should speak up and stop taking this.

He sounds like a real fucking moron. I use as a life affirmation the fact that I don't know who he is.

begbert2 04-16-2019 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21594196)
It was part of a show by black online commentator Jessie Peterson HERE.

He says that if the situation had been reversed, a white man deliberately throwing a black 5 year old boy off a balcony with an intent to kill him their would be riots and demonstrations. He says "where is White Lives Matter"? He also points out that he was a Somali immigrant who had a history of problems.

He is right, its barely been covered by the media. The media doesnt mention the boy was white. he also mentions some black activists have been calling for blacks to "Raise Hell". And that Black Lives Matter shut the mall down a couple years ago.

He finally tells white people they should speak up and stop taking this.

So nice to hear the insane perspective. We hear so little from the insane quadrant nowadays, good on you for doing the tortuous work of listening to a source that you would never otherwise lower yourself to outside of doing research.

If the dude wanted to get MRA cred, he should have killed a woman, or killed a whole bunch of people with a large impressive penis-symbol. Killing just one kid, even in a stupid random way, isn't much of a message.

HurricaneDitka 04-16-2019 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunilou (Post 21592718)
... is this going to turn him into some sort of MRA martyr?

I'm going to go with "nope" as well. Aranda sounds nuts, and apparently has a rather lengthy criminal history, but most of it is just general-purpose asshole stuff (theft, assault & battery, disorderly conduct, etc), not targeting women specifically. According to this story:

Quote:

... he had gone to the mall on Thursday intending to kill an adult, but that it did not “work out,” court documents say.

Kent Clark 04-16-2019 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21594196)
He says that if the situation had been reversed, a white man deliberately throwing a black 5 year old boy off a balcony with an intent to kill him their would be riots and demonstrations.

Where were these riots and demonstrations when Dylan Roof walked into a church, murdered nine black people, and wounded three more?

Velocity 04-16-2019 06:23 PM

Peterson being an unsavory commentator aside, does anyone truly dispute his point about the media coverage being different if the races were reversed, though? I can't see how a white man throwing a black child off a balcony wouldn't lead to considerably more intense media focus.

Chingon 04-16-2019 06:31 PM

What if it was an Asian baby throwing a Jewish lady? Can you imagine the uproar?!

Little Nemo 04-16-2019 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimstu (Post 21592750)
No. There is a large overlap between self-identified "MRA"/"MGTOW"/"incel" movements and the white-nationalist "alt-right"

No surprise. It's pretty much the same mentality. Losers who have never accomplished anything personally but think they're special because they have a penis/white skin. They get angry when other people don't recognize their "superiority" and hand them the things they think they're entitled to. They love hanging out with people that are like them because they're scared of people who aren't like them. And when they fail, they blame women/black people rather than acknowledge they failed because they're failures.

Little Nemo 04-16-2019 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21594196)
He finally tells white people they should speak up and stop taking this.

I've been white all my life and I've never noticed that I've been oppressed over it.

Maybe the white people who feel oppressed should just stop sniveling.

bobot 04-16-2019 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunilou (Post 21594288)
Where were these riots and demonstrations when Dylan Roof walked into a church, murdered nine black people, and wounded three more?

Hey there, what's with the reality? Why are you bringing reality into a right wing drooling moron fantasy?

Typo Negative 04-16-2019 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity (Post 21594289)
Peterson being an unsavory commentator aside, does anyone truly dispute his point about the media coverage being different if the races were reversed, though? I can't see how a white man throwing a black child off a balcony wouldn't lead to considerably more intense media focus.

How would the media deal with the fact that if the races were reversed, he would statistically get a lighter sentence?

Quote:

The United States Sentencing Commission reported last week that black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated white male offenders.

The finding is based on data for fiscal years 2012-2016, and it is consistent with the prior four periods studied by the Commission.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/blac...ry?id=51203491

Kimstu 04-16-2019 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity (Post 21594289)
[...] does anyone truly dispute his point about the media coverage being different if the races were reversed, though? I can't see how a white man throwing a black child off a balcony wouldn't lead to considerably more intense media focus.

Naturally, this is why we are all still so obsessed with the David Steven Bell case from last January.

What do you mean, "Who?"?
Quote:

White North Carolina Man Faces Assault Charges After Punching Young Black Girl Outside Mall

A 51-year-old white male from Black Mountain, North Carolina, has gone viral in a disturbing video showing him assaulting a 12-year-old Black girl at the Asheville Mall. [...]

David Steven Bell was arrested Saturday after punching the child in the face, sending her to the ground outside the mall.

begbert2 04-16-2019 07:51 PM

I find it interesting how this has become all about race, just because some racist lunatic made a show blaming race for this somehow and then got referenced here. Is there any indication at all that this attack had anything to do with race? I'd gotten the impression that it was just some unbalanced dude with anger issues being angry and murderous.

Typo Negative 04-16-2019 07:52 PM

The article states they do not know if race was a factor.

Kimstu 04-16-2019 08:19 PM

It wouldn't surprise me either way. Shitty people who do shitty things not infrequently have shitty ideas about a whole bunch of other stuff, including race, gender, etc.

Bryan Ekers 04-16-2019 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chingon (Post 21594302)
What if it was an Asian baby throwing a Jewish lady? Can you imagine the uproar?!

What if it was acid glue, throwing Hitler?

AHunter3 04-16-2019 09:00 PM

ETA: never mind, I see you fixed it in your post

Did you by any remote chance intend to title this thread "Mall of America Assault an Incel Crime?"? i.e., were you asking whether it should be considered an incel crime?

Kent Clark 04-16-2019 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHunter3 (Post 21594514)
ETA: never mind, I see you fixed it in your post

Did you by any remote chance intend to title this thread "Mall of America Assault an Incel Crime?"? i.e., were you asking whether it should be considered an incel crime?

Yes, that's what I had intended to ask. This thread hasn't exactly gone where I expected, but I'm okay with that.

Miller 04-16-2019 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunilou (Post 21594288)
Where were these riots and demonstrations when Dylan Roof walked into a church, murdered nine black people, and wounded three more?

Not to remotely co-sign Urbanredneck's lunatic cite, but wasn't Charleston the catalyst for all those anti-Confederate flag protests?

LAZombie 04-16-2019 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimstu (Post 21594388)
Naturally, this is why we are all still so obsessed with the David Steven Bell case from last January.

People should watch that video. That looked like self defense to me. The man was surrounded by a dozen aggressive youths. Are you saying Emmanuel Deshawn Aranda throwing that 5 year old from three stories is comparable?

Kent Clark 04-16-2019 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller (Post 21594617)
Not to remotely co-sign Urbanredneck's lunatic cite, but wasn't Charleston the catalyst for all those anti-Confederate flag protests?

Demonstrations, maybe. Not riots.

Of course, since we're in GD territory, maybe the biggest (certainly the loudest) response to the Columbia shootings was the Charlottesville rally. But I'm pretty sure that's not the point Jessie Peterson - nor anyone participating in this thread - intended to make.

Kimstu 04-16-2019 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAZombie (Post 21594651)
Are you saying Emmanuel Deshawn Aranda throwing that 5 year old from three stories is comparable?

Of course not. I'm saying that the claim that Americans in general pay more attention to white-on-black crime than to black-on-white crime is absurd. For example, did you ever even hear about this white man shooting this black 8-year-old boy back in 2013?
Quote:

White Man Cuffed For Shooting Black Child, 8, In The Face

A 46-year-old man has been arrested after he allegedly shot an 8-year-old boy in the face as he was playing in an apartment complex, CBS Dallas/Fort Worth reports. [...]

Local police arrested Brian Cloninger in connection with the shooting. He has been charged with injury to a child, and sits behind bars with a $2.2 million bond. There is no clear motive behind why Cloninger would have wanted to shoot the boy. The shooting is still being investigated.
Cloninger was convicted and is serving a 45-year prison term. Is his name a common household word for senseless interracial violence, the way Aranda's name is likely to be? No.

Urbanredneck 04-16-2019 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii (Post 21594206)
Jesse Lee Peterson is a nutcase who "thanks God" for slavery, says most black people are "mentally retarded", that women shouldn't be able to vote, and many more insane and/or hateful things. His views can and should be ignored.

The question was asked, what are the people on the right saying and I gave Peterson as an example.

So should the press mention racial angles in a story?

nelliebly 04-17-2019 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21594702)
The question was asked, what are the people on the right saying and I gave Peterson as an example.

So should the press mention racial angles in a story?

I'm not on the right, but if I were, I'd be highly insulted that you chose Peterson when there are articulate conservative commentators who aren't bat-shit crazy white supremacists. Do you regularly follow Peterson, or did you Google the incident to look for conservative comments, and Peterson's was the only one that came up?

As for your question, the answer is: only if race apparently played a role in the crime. The assailant (I refuse to use the names of violent criminals. Too many of them get off on that.) did not say he was hoping to murder a white person; he just said he was hoping to murder an adult. Race didn't play a role in the commission of the crime, and only someone as loony and disgusting as Peterson would say it did.

Gukumatz 04-17-2019 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAZombie (Post 21594651)
People should watch that video. That looked like self defense to me. The man was surrounded by a dozen aggressive youths. Are you saying Emmanuel Deshawn Aranda throwing that 5 year old from three stories is comparable?

Self defense? Aggressive? Are you being serious? He was in a crowd of loud and obnoxious kids and as a result, being a man of 6'5" and 250 pounds, punched a 12 year old girl in the face.

iiandyiiii 04-17-2019 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21594702)
The question was asked, what are the people on the right saying and I gave Peterson as an example.

Surprised that you would choose to cite a crazy, hateful nutcase as an "example" of "people on the right".

Quote:

So should the press mention racial angles in a story?
What "racial angles"?

Urbanredneck 04-17-2019 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii (Post 21595020)
Surprised that you would choose to cite a crazy, hateful nutcase as an "example" of "people on the right".



What "racial angles"?

Your free to quote someone else. Yes, I just saw his response and being he is black I thought I would link to him.

SmellMyWort 04-17-2019 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21594702)
The question was asked, what are the people on the right saying and I gave Peterson as an example.

No, nobody asked that. You brought your dumbass example in here all on your own.

Lemur866 04-17-2019 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21595083)
Your free to quote someone else. Yes, I just saw his response and being he is black I thought I would link to him.

Seriously?

begbert2 04-17-2019 02:27 PM

Y'know folks, it'd probably be fine to let it die. We all are unimpressed by the cite and feel it adds a non-representative (and insane) view on the discussion.

Honestly the question about whether this would count as an incel crime seems to be getting buried under our disgust and the cite.

HurricaneDitka 04-17-2019 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begbert2 (Post 21595653)
... Honestly the question about whether this would count as an incel crime seems to be getting buried under our disgust and the cite.

I thought that question had largely been answered. Does anyone still think it might (count as an incel crime)?

Urbanredneck 04-17-2019 04:42 PM

It would help if you would tell us what you mean by an "incel crime". I googled it and it basically says a crime committed by an involuntarily celibate person.

begbert2 04-17-2019 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21595932)
It would help if you would tell us what you mean by an "incel crime". I googled it and it basically says a crime committed by an involuntarily celibate person.

For myself, I would prefer if the motivation for the crime had something do do with his incel status, or motivations based on his incel status or beliefs. A white man shooting a black man because he's black is a hate crime; a white man shooting a black man because he's robbing a bank and the guard happens to be black is not.


(Now somebody slap me for dragging race back into the thread.)

PastTense 04-17-2019 07:20 PM

Some of his previous arrests were handled through the mental health court, so he could well be mentally ill:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...5f2_story.html

Kent Clark 04-17-2019 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21595083)
Your free to quote someone else. Yes, I just saw his response and being he is black I thought I would link to him.

I'm going to call you on this, Urbanredneck. My original question was whether the crime had some connection to the acts of violence committed by self-proclaimed members of the incel/MRA/MGTOW community. Then Kimstu claimed that particular segment of wingnuts does not normally embrace black people.

And you came in on Post #5 to quote a black "conservative" who's upset that the media hasn't made this a black vs. white issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck
He is right, its barely been covered by the media. The media doesnt mention the boy was white. he also mentions some black activists have been calling for blacks to "Raise Hell". And that Black Lives Matter shut the mall down a couple years ago.

And you agree with him.

As I said, I'm okay with this thread veering away from the incel issue, but you're one of the people who steered the bus into a strawman.

Saintly Loser 04-17-2019 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Nemo (Post 21594329)
No surprise. It's pretty much the same mentality. Losers who have never accomplished anything personally but think they're special because they have a penis/white skin. They get angry when other people don't recognize their "superiority" and hand them the things they think they're entitled to. They love hanging out with people that are like them because they're scared of people who aren't like them. And when they fail, they blame women/black people rather than acknowledge they failed because they're failures.

I agree with you, without reservation.

That said, Elliot Rodger (sometimes, even often, referred to as "Saint Elliot" on the various cesspools known as incel fora) was not, strictly speaking, "white."

Urbanredneck 04-17-2019 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunilou (Post 21596323)
I'm going to call you on this, Urbanredneck. My original question was whether the crime had some connection to the acts of violence committed by self-proclaimed members of the incel/MRA/MGTOW community. Then Kimstu claimed that particular segment of wingnuts does not normally embrace black people.

And you came in on Post #5 to quote a black "conservative" who's upset that the media hasn't made this a black vs. white issue.



And you agree with him.

As I said, I'm okay with this thread veering away from the incel issue, but you're one of the people who steered the bus into a strawman.

Ok, then I have to apologize. I didnt catch what "incel" meant in your original OP. To be honest I thought it meant something about race.

Covfefe 04-17-2019 11:38 PM

I had thought maybe you were trying to say Jesse Peterson is an incel.

Tastes of Chocolate 04-18-2019 01:43 AM

From yesterday's news.
The man accused of throwing a 5-year-old boy off the third floor balcony at the Mall of America in Bloomington, Minnesota Friday told police he had come to the mall that day looking for someone kill.

He allegedly claimed he had made efforts to "talk to women in the Mall, but had been rejected, and the rejection caused him to lash out and be aggressive."

To me it sounds like the man probably isn't part of any incel group, but there do seem to be incel type thoughts. Mostly the perpetrator seems to be mentally unstable and lacking mental health help.

Typo Negative 04-18-2019 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21596468)
Ok, then I have to apologize. I didnt catch what "incel" meant in your original OP. To be honest I thought it meant something about race.

'Incel' means 'loser'.

Chingon 04-18-2019 11:20 AM

He knew what it meant.

Kent Clark 04-18-2019 06:18 PM

I accept Urbanredneck's apology. Now let's move on to Aranda's overall craziness.

Guinastasia 04-18-2019 09:34 PM

Edit: never mind, already covered.

Guinastasia 04-18-2019 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck (Post 21596468)
Ok, then I have to apologize. I didnt catch what "incel" meant in your original OP. To be honest I thought it meant something about race.

IIRC, haven't you participated in threads about incels before?

Funny you didn't know what it meant. :dubious:


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