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-   -   Stupid Gun news of the day... (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=680617)

jasg 01-29-2013 01:01 PM

Stupid Gun news of the day...
 
Plenty of it on both sides of the fence, easy to have a race to the bottom. Post your favorite news report here.

I'll lead with this AR-15 in Krogers. Perhaps he is a vegetarian out hunting :dubious:

elucidator 01-29-2013 01:05 PM

Sure, you make fun, but when was the last time you were charged by a rogue asparagus? Or stalked by a celery? You'd be damned glad to have serious firepower!

Elmer J. Fudd 01-29-2013 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elucidator (Post 15950395)
Sure, you make fun, but when was the last time you were charged by a rogue asparagus? Or stalked by a celery? You'd be damned glad to have serious firepower!

Celery? We want to learn how to defend ourselves against celery, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!

CalMeacham 01-29-2013 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elucidator (Post 15950395)
Sure, you make fun, but when was the last time you were charged by a rogue asparagus? Or stalked by a celery? You'd be damned glad to have serious firepower!




I'm not worried. I still have my trusty Potato Gun.
















http://www.amazon.com/American-Scien.../dp/B0006GK8H8

llcoolbj77 01-29-2013 01:37 PM

I worked at the NRA. One of my primary jobs was to take phone calls from concerned citizens about their rights' in their respective states. What I really ended up doing was begging folks to please not bring their loaded firearms everywhere just to prove a point... it would not be the point we wanted proved, so to speak.

silenus 01-29-2013 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalMeacham (Post 15950480)
I'm not worried. I still have my trusty Potato Gun.
















http://www.amazon.com/American-Scien.../dp/B0006GK8H8




Wait, wait, wait.

I'm so confused. If a potato gun shoots potatoes, then what does an elephant gun shoot? :eek:

running coach 01-29-2013 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silenus (Post 15950522)
Wait, wait, wait.

I'm so confused. If a potato gun shoots potatoes, then what does an elephant gun shoot? :eek:

Image trying to store 5,000 rounds of ammo.

CalMeacham 01-29-2013 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silenus (Post 15950522)
Wait, wait, wait.

I'm so confused. If a potato gun shoots potatoes, then what does an elephant gun shoot? :eek:

And where do they get Baby Oil from?

running coach 01-29-2013 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalMeacham (Post 15950539)
And where do they get Baby Oil from?

Same place as Baby Powder which is the left over residue.

Werekoala 01-29-2013 01:48 PM

Wow, that's awful - how many people did he kill?

ElvisL1ves 01-29-2013 01:49 PM

Are these Girl Scout cookies made from genuine Girl Scouts?

kayaker 01-29-2013 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasg (Post 15950381)
I'll lead with this AR-15 in Krogers. Perhaps he is a vegetarian out hunting :dubious:

Shocking!! I didn't realize Krogers was still in business.

ElvisL1ves 01-29-2013 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elucidator (Post 15950395)
Sure, you make fun, but when was the last time you were charged by a rogue asparagus? Or stalked by a celery?

Never. *I* stalk THEM. ;)

ElvisL1ves 01-29-2013 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasg (Post 15950381)
Perhaps he is a vegetarian out hunting :dubious:

"Vegetarian" is an Indian word for "Can't hunt, can't fish, can't cook."

Labrador Deceiver 01-29-2013 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayaker (Post 15950576)
Shocking!! I didn't realize Krogers was still in business.

I was just getting ready to point and laugh at the extra "s". I feel like my Grandmother wrote the OP.

But, yeah, Kroger is one of the biggest retailers in the United States. You could say they're still in business.

running coach 01-29-2013 01:56 PM

Almost Live!-Veggie Kill

Bryan Ekers 01-29-2013 02:03 PM

Sometimes you need full auto when you're attacked by leafy vegetables and can only hope to God to survive.




Lettuce spray.

Czarcasm 01-29-2013 02:06 PM

Elephant Parts-Vegetable Safari

ElvisL1ves 01-29-2013 02:10 PM

Sometimes you need a ray gun. Or a Robot.

jasg 01-29-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czarcasm (Post 15950625)
Elephant Parts-Vegetable Safari

EP is one of my favorites (even touches on the 2nd with NNS) and actually ran through my mind when I read the original news about guns at Kroger.

kayaker 01-29-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver (Post 15950592)
I was just getting ready to point and laugh at the extra "s". I feel like my Grandmother wrote the OP.

But, yeah, Kroger is one of the biggest retailers in the United States. You could say they're still in business.

a protracted labor strike in 1983 and 1984. During the strike, Kroger withdrew all of its stores from the Western Pennsylvania market, including some recently opened "superstores" and "greenhouses".

Heh. I remember Krogers from my childhood...

Stealth Potato 01-29-2013 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silenus (Post 15950522)
I'm so confused. If a potato gun shoots potatoes, then what does an elephant gun shoot? :eek:

Never mind that. What's the potato gun for again?!

Labrador Deceiver 01-29-2013 02:43 PM

I take it you live in Western Pennsylvania?

drew870mitchell 01-29-2013 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llcoolbj77 (Post 15950513)
I worked at the NRA. One of my primary jobs was to take phone calls from concerned citizens about their rights' in their respective states. What I really ended up doing was begging folks to please not bring their loaded firearms everywhere just to prove a point... it would not be the point we wanted proved, so to speak.

I would find it interesting if you wrote about your experience there.

Semi-related: yesterday they had Bob Costas on The Daily Show. I haven't watched the extended interview yet but I think he made the correct point by focusing on gun culture instead of technical or legal quibbles. The rampant paranoia for one's own safety, either from other citizens or from a supposed tyrannical government, doesn't reflect well on us as a society.

IMHO there's a lot more hay to be made in addressing why people feel they must be packing to feel safe, than in banning magazines used in a tiny fraction of killings. Sure, self defense is your prerogative, but whenever people are motivated by fear we need to continually re-evaluate whether we are being rational.

kayaker 01-29-2013 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver (Post 15950743)
I take it you live in Western Pennsylvania?

:DYep.

Giant Eagle is my grocery store of choice.

Rick 01-29-2013 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silenus (Post 15950522)
Wait, wait, wait.

I'm so confused. If a potato gun shoots potatoes, then what does an elephant gun shoot? :eek:

This is the real reason behind the limitations on magazine size. Picture a mag holding 30 elephants. The mind boggles.

Zebra 01-29-2013 02:58 PM

So how is the other side racing to the bottom?

njtt 01-29-2013 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick (Post 15950782)
This is the real reason behind the limitations on magazine size. Picture a mag holding 30 elephants. The mind boggles.

Are you sure you don't mean a clip?

Ethilrist 01-29-2013 03:10 PM

Given the note in his pocket, it looks like he was trying to commit suicide via cop, and failed.

ElvisL1ves 01-29-2013 03:14 PM

Or he went to the wrong store to get a new banana clip.

woodstockbirdybird 01-29-2013 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werekoala (Post 15950569)
Wow, that's awful - how many people did he kill?

Oh, is that the definition of "stupid" now? The thread's not called "Evil gun news of the day".

Airbeck 01-29-2013 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodstockbirdybird (Post 15950838)
Oh, is that the definition of "stupid" now? The thread's not called "Evil gun news of the day".

Yeah, evidently we can only define something done with a gun as stupid if there is actual death resulting from it.

Euphonious Polemic 01-29-2013 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werekoala (Post 15950569)
Wow, that's awful - how many people did he kill?

I take it that your point is that if he did not kill anyone, or intend to kill anyone, then "no harm, no foul", is that correct? Any everyone is just making a big deal out of nothing?


Well, for the shoppers in the store, how were they supposed to determine what was in the mind of the man with the gun? Was he a patriot exercising his rights? Was he looking for suicide by cop? Was he about to hold up the store? Was he recently divorced and depressed and was going to kill as many people as possible?

How were the people in the store to know?

So I believe they were right to call 911. I don't think they were feeling particularly happy at this point.

Once the police arrived, they drew their guns. How were they to know what was in this man's mind? (see list above) Were the police correct to do this? I believe they were. I hope there were no other police matters that needed them at that moment.

Bottom line.... So nobody was killed - that is a good thing. So was this "no harm, no foul"? No, in my opinion it was not. Harm was caused by this doofus.

Ionizer 01-29-2013 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airbeck (Post 15950850)
Yeah, evidently we can only define something done with a gun as stupid if there is actual death resulting from it.

Here's one I came across earlier. Man kills a 22yr-old guy who pulled into wrong driveway. Killed him as he was trying to get the fuck out of the driveway, too. Of course, his 'defense' is he thought his home was being invaded, so he goes OUTSIDE to shoot him. After he fired a stray round into the air, and maybe injuring someone else in his masculine fantasy world. God Bless America! Right?

The homeowner is a chickenshit who should shoot one more round - into his own head, of course. That would be the smartest thing possible for such proud-to-own-gun persons. I bet he lacks the moral courage to self-enforce his own death penalty.

Anyone want to show how much safer we all are with such upstanding citizens ready to murder anyone crossing into their fantasy lands?

Rick 01-29-2013 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njtt (Post 15950800)
Are you sure you don't mean a clip?

Nope.

Kolak of Twilo 01-29-2013 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ionizer (Post 15950919)

I saw that earlier too. Considering the kid he killed was an immigrant from Colombia and the old guy is claiming he feared his home was being invaded, I'll be surprised if anything happens to him at all.

ducati 01-29-2013 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolak of Twilo (Post 15950986)
I saw that earlier too. Considering the kid he killed was an immigrant from Colombia and the old guy is claiming he feared his home was being invaded, I'll be surprised if anything happens to him at all.


No, he'll face punishment. This is a couple of miles from me. My daughter goes to that school. The local DA is pretty intolerant of shenanigans like this.

Apparently I live on the fringe of cell service for every carrier. People stop in front of my house, or in my yard daily to make a call before heading into the Dead Zone. I could cap them all, but Danny just won't let me.:mad:

Werekoala 01-29-2013 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 15950904)
I take it that your point is that if he did not kill anyone, or intend to kill anyone, then "no harm, no foul", is that correct? Any everyone is just making a big deal out of nothing?

No, my point is that all we've heard for the last several weeks is that the only reason anyone would want to own an AR-15 is because they want to kill people with it, so I naturally assumed he went into the store guns a'blazin'.

You know why those people were probably freaked out? 1.5 months of 24-7 hysteria-inducing hype, especially and particularly about that type of gun. You can't get away from it in the news, no matter your source, so everyone is hyper-sensative to an AR-15. I'd be willing to bet most of those people didn't even know what one WAS before this all started.

That's the point - man with AR-15 kills nobody, and is in fact completely and legally within his rights to do what he did, but is a huge idiot nonetheless. All he did was feed into the mass hysteria, so I do fault him for that - but he had help.

People always talk about others seeking fame from over-publicized incidents - do you think he would have done this without all the recent coverage? NO, he was an idiot trying to make a point - which will be completely drown out by the indignity and fear mongering from one side of the debate. For instance, how many "Stupid Gun News of the Day" stories/threads there were on the intarwebs prior to Sandy Hook?

So yes, this is VERY stupid gun news, on many fronts.

Lamar Mundane 01-29-2013 05:38 PM

I'll nominate the idiots who heckled the parent of a dead Sandy Hook child while he was holding a picture of his dead son. I'm surprised they didn't picket the funerals.

This reminds me of when all the people with pilot's licences heckled the survivors of the 9/11 attacks, because airplanes don't kill people, terrorists kill people.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-a...-father-2013-1

Airbeck 01-29-2013 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werekoala (Post 15951183)
You know why those people were probably freaked out? 1.5 months of 24-7 hysteria-inducing hype, especially and particularly about that type of gun. You can't get away from it in the news, no matter your source, so everyone is hyper-sensative to an AR-15. I'd be willing to bet most of those people didn't even know what one WAS before this all started.

I doubt anyone at the store knew or cared that it was specifically an AR-15. Everyone knows what a military style rifle looks like, it doesn't matter the model number, and that's what caused the fear and the ensuing police situation, not media coverage of Sandy Hook. This guy did something that, while technically legal, scared the crap out of the people in that store and caused the police to get involved only increasing the stress and fear of the situation. He caused this to happen and you are blaming the media for the people being scared of a guy with a big gun walking into a store? No matter what part of my life we're talking about, if a guy walked into the store I was in carrying a military looking rifle over his shoulder, I'm probably gonna freak out a little and be scared. This has nothing to do with the media coverage of Sandy Hook, or that it was specifically an AR-15. This is an idiot waving his big gun in everyone's face to try to prove some point about how he should have the right to wave his big gun in everyone's face and its their fault and the media's fault if they get scared.

Werekoala 01-29-2013 05:43 PM

See, that's what I mean - he wasn't "waving his big gun" in anyone's face or he likely would have been shot (which is why he had the note, I'm sure). Hyperbole, anyone? And just how did the police become involved if someone didn't call them? So yes, I posit that someone(s) in the store saw a big, scary-looking gun and freaked and called the cops on this huge idiot. I posit that everyone in the United States is currently hyper-aware of big, scary looking guns, which may have contributed to the call in the first place. But I also posit that he woundn't have DONE it if it weren't for all the hyperbolic crap that's been spewed on both sides of this "debate". Can we at least agree on that?

Airbeck 01-29-2013 05:47 PM

Bullshit. This would have happened a year ago, or 10 years ago. Or could have. Are you saying that this definitely would not have happened prior to Sandy Hook? That this is a brand new thing, people being afraid of guys walking around in a store carrying a military looking rifle? Can you excuse this guys idiocy any harder by the way? Blaming everyone on both sides of the debate, except for the guy with the big gun in the grocery store?

Oh, and gee a person using hyperbole to illustrate a point on an internet message board - perish the thought.

Fear Itself 01-29-2013 05:48 PM

It is only a matter of time before one of these yahoos get taken down by another gun extremist like those who said the shooter in Aurora CO could have been prevented if everyone in the theater had been packing a gun.

Werekoala 01-29-2013 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airbeck (Post 15951247)
Bullshit. This would have happened a year ago, or 10 years ago. Or could have. Are you saying that this definitely would not have happened prior to Sandy Hook? That this is a brand new thing, people being afraid of guys walking around in a store carrying a military looking rifle?

Reading is fundamental - I said he likely would never have done this in the first place were it NOT for the ensuing anti-gun (and more importantly, anti-gun-owner) hysteria. Of course someone might have been scared 1 or 5 or 15 years ago. My point is that it never would have happened in the first place, absent this circus we're enduring.

Der Trihs 01-29-2013 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werekoala (Post 15951183)
You know why those people were probably freaked out?

Because a man showed up showing off a lethal weapon when he had no rational reason to do so. He wasn't a cop, he wasn't a soldier, he wasn't leaving a gun store, he wasn't hunting. Fear is the rational response to someone like that. He's lucky that there weren't any of his fellow Second Amendment fanatics around who decided to be "heroic" and shoot him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werekoala (Post 15951183)
People always talk about others seeking fame from over-publicized incidents - do you think he would have done this without all the recent coverage?

Quite possibly; gun fetishists get off on scaring people. They're bullies at heart. Scum.

Werekoala 01-29-2013 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Trihs (Post 15951256)
Because a man showed up showing off a lethal weapon when he had no rational reason to do so. He wasn't a cop, he wasn't a soldier, he wasn't leaving a gun store, he wasn't hunting. Fear is the rational response to someone like that. He's lucky that there weren't any of his fellow Second Amendment fanatics around who decided to be "heroic" and shoot him.

Quite possibly; gun fetishists get off on scaring people. They're bullies at heart. Scum.

Fear is not a rational response unless you've been trained to be afraid of guns, or more importantly people who carry them. He wasn't showing off, he was (again, important point) completely and legally carring his rifle on his shoulder - and being a complete moron in the process. We do not know if he was a "fetishist", bully, or scum, but being an idiot isn't illegal either.

Then again, having been following your posts on the wider matter at hand, I'd expect no less from you.

Stealth Potato 01-29-2013 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamar Mundane (Post 15951213)
I'll nominate the idiots who heckled the parent of a dead Sandy Hook child while he was holding a picture of his dead son. I'm surprised they didn't picket the funerals.

This reminds me of when all the people with pilot's licences heckled the survivors of the 9/11 attacks, because airplanes don't kill people, terrorists kill people.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-a...-father-2013-1

Did you watch the video? He didn't get heckled. He asked a question to the audience, waited in silence (during which nobody spoke up), then prompted the audience a second time, after which a couple people piped up and were then silenced by the moderator.

Hentor the Barbarian 01-29-2013 05:57 PM

My mother is in her 70s. She has the guts to brave the grocery store unarmed on a weekly basis.

This guy is just one giant fucking pussy.

Airbeck 01-29-2013 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werekoala (Post 15951261)
Fear is not a rational response unless you've been trained to be afraid of guns, or more importantly people who carry them. He wasn't showing off, he was (again, important point) completely and legally carring his rifle on his shoulder - and being a complete moron in the process.

So you agree with us that this guy was stupid to do what he did. Which is the point of the OP of the thread, right?

So what do you disagree with exactly? I've lost the point that you are making in this thread at this point. Was the Kroger guy being stupid or not? Or do you just think that the whole idea of having a stupid gun news of the day thread is stupid in and of itself? I'm now uncertain of the point of your original sarcasm since we're all seemingly agreeing that this guy was stupid at this point, correct?

Der Trihs 01-29-2013 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werekoala (Post 15951261)
Fear is not a rational response unless you've been trained to be afraid of guns, or more importantly people who carry them.

Guns are tools for killing. If you aren't afraid of some stranger carrying a gun in a place he has no reason to, you're an idiot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werekoala (Post 15951261)
He wasn't showing off, he was (again, important point) completely and legally carring his rifle on his shoulder - and being a complete moron in the process.

He was showing off, that was the whole point. And I don't care in the slightest that it was legal, legal and moral aren't the same thing. For that matter it isn't legal any more here in California; that kind of stunt instigated the passage of a law against it.

Cheesesteak 01-29-2013 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werekoala (Post 15951261)
legally carring his rifle on his shoulder - and being a complete moron in the process.

being an idiot isn't illegal either.

"complete moron" and "idiot" are not terms I'd like to use to describe a person open carrying a firearm in public. Frankly, being afraid of such a person is far more appropriate a response than being blase about him.

Der Trihs 01-29-2013 06:45 PM

One funny thing about this argument from gun fetishists that people shouldn't fear to see someone walking around with a gun in public; it undermines their entire fantasy of noble gun-toting Second Amendment fans whipping out their guns to stop criminals and spree shooters, since if they follow their own their advice they'll be caught by surprise every time.

madmonk28 01-29-2013 06:51 PM

Here's my entry for today:
Quote:

15-year-old Matthew Daniels, of Sweetwater, Tennessee unintentionally shot himself with a family handgun. According to police, "Apparently based on everything we can find out, we have no sign that he was depressed or anything of that nature, so it looks like an accidental shooting."
Police responded to the call around 5:45 Thursday night. They found Matthew's mother performing CPR on her son. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
Reports do not indicate how the family handgun was stored, whether it was kept unloaded and locked, or why Matthew was handling the gun.
Matthew was a freshman at Sweetwater High School. He was an honor student and had just been named Student of the Month. Students, faculty and staff at the high school wore purple on Monday in honor of Matthew. Purple was Matthew's favorite color.
http://ohhshoot.blogspot.com/2013/01...hoots-and.html

and on the subject of carrying a gun to make a point:
“There’s no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons,” said California Gov. Ronald Reagan in May 1967, after two dozen Black Panther Party members walked into the California Statehouse carrying rifles to protest a gun-control bill. Reagan said guns were “a ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will.”http://www.salon.com/2013/01/23/7_un...e_nras_become/

Der Trihs 01-29-2013 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmonk28 (Post 15951410)

Yes; having guns around is a great way of getting yourself killed by accident.

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmonk28 (Post 15951410)
“There’s no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons,” said California Gov. Ronald Reagan in May 1967, after two dozen Black Panther Party members walked into the California Statehouse carrying rifles to protest a gun-control bill. Reagan said guns were “a ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will.”

Ah, Reagan you crazy leftist, you.

Flyer 01-30-2013 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Trihs (Post 15951395)
One funny thing about this argument from gun fetishists that people shouldn't fear to see someone walking around with a gun in public; it undermines their entire fantasy of noble gun-toting Second Amendment fans whipping out their guns to stop criminals and spree shooters, since if they follow their own their advice they'll be caught by surprise every time.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Criminals (illegally) CONCEAL their (illegal) guns. Why in the world would anybody bent on robbery or mayhem alert their target ahead of time? Any criminal who openly carried his weapon would be almost as stupid as you are.


Anyhow, that's probably why this guy carried his rifle into the store to begin with--to show people that somebody carried an evil "assault rifle" into a public place, and nothing bad happened. Perhaps all those idiots who were stupid enough to call the police for no reason at all will realize that this is what is called a "teachable moment."

Snowboarder Bo 01-30-2013 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer (Post 15952231)
Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Criminals (illegally) CONCEAL their (illegal) guns. Why in the world would anybody bent on robbery or mayhem alert their target ahead of time? Any criminal who openly carried his weapon would be almost as stupid as you are.

Adam Lanza didn't conceal the guns he used in Newton, CT.

James Holmes didn't conceal the guns he used in Aurora, CO.

In fact, most mass shootings take place using guns legally obtained (cite) and AFAICT they are seldom concealed, unless you count "in the car until the killing starts" as "concealed".

You know why people "bent on robbery or mayhem" can openly carry weapons? Because they know that with the gun in their hand, they can pull the trigger before the people who have guns in holsters or stashed in their desks or whatever. And they know that many (if not most) people will run away rather than confront them, since they do in fact have a deadly weapon in their hands, ready to use.

Are you saying that if you saw a guy you didn't know with an AR-15 in public, you'd just assume something other than "hey maybe this guy aims to hurt a bunch of people"? Why in the world wouldn't you think that he might intend to hurt people?

Kobal2 01-30-2013 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer (Post 15952231)
Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Criminals (illegally) CONCEAL their (illegal) guns. Why in the world would anybody bent on robbery or mayhem alert their target ahead of time? Any criminal who openly carried his weapon would be almost as stupid as you are.

Think it through, Flyer. Criminals by and large conceal their guns now, because ordinary people tend to freak out when they see some stranger walking around tooled up to the nines, thinking (rightly or wrongly - but it's a pretty safe fucking assumption) that that person is bent on something nefarious.

If morons like the guy from the OP were more common however, if people just got used and inured to the sight of people going about their business, assault rifles at the ready at all times because GUN RIGHTS... why on Earth would criminals and mass murderers still even attempt to conceal theirs ? They'd just blend right in. Assault rifles at the ready.
Feel safer yet ?

madmonk28 01-30-2013 06:03 AM

I've got another entry:
Phillip Sailors is the kind of good guy with a gun Wayne LaPierre had in in mind. When Rodrigo Diaz pulled into Mr. Sailors' driveway, thinking it was a friend's house, Mr. Sailors' did what any of us would do: he shot Mr. Diaz in the head as Mr. Diaz was trying to apologize.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archive....php?ref=fpblg

This is easy. I feel bad for the gun fetishists, all they have for stupid gun story of the day is: "it's a magazine, not a clip," or "some reporter got the caliber wrong on my favorite penis substitute."

We have the steady drum beat of scared little weirdos with their guns doing scared little weird things with them.

Gyrate 01-30-2013 06:10 AM

I blame the media. If only they hadn't reported Mr Diaz's shooting, Mr Diaz's shooting wouldn't have happened.

Or something.

Hentor the Barbarian 01-30-2013 06:31 AM

Kroger Plus Rewards reads the card of a man.
A knight without armor in the breakfast foods aisle.

His fast gun for naught heads the calling of 911.
A soldier of fortune is the man called Jerry from Accounting.

Jerry from Accounting
Where do you roam?
With 17 items
Far, far from Express Checkout.

scabpicker 01-30-2013 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silenus (Post 15950522)
Wait, wait, wait.

I'm so confused. If a potato gun shoots potatoes, then what does an elephant gun shoot? :eek:

I've got a rattlesnake gun I've got a rattlesnake gun I've got a rattlesnake gun!

Think about what an Aerosmith gun would shoot :eek:

Hentor the Barbarian 01-30-2013 07:52 AM

David Waldman is keeping a running account of gun incidents at his Gun Fail blog at Daily Kos.

It's quite remarkable to see so many of these incidents collected in one place. I wonder if he'll have the fortitude to keep it up for long.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/...f-GunFail-News

madmonk28 01-30-2013 10:05 AM

Hentor, in addition to Walman's blog, there is Ohh Shoot, which tracks gun mishaps and Slate's attempt to track every gun death in America since Newtown.

http://ohhshoot.blogspot.com/
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._shooting.html

Condescending Robot 01-30-2013 10:07 AM

Remember, anytime someone is shot it means that the idea of private gun ownership is discredited forever and the legal protections for it can be ignored. Just like everytime someone is acquitted in court it means that due process rights don't exist, everytime a Muslim does something violent it means freedom of religion is stupid, and everytime someone commits welfare fraud it means we should abolish food stamps and let people starve.

elucidator 01-30-2013 10:13 AM

Do I detect a note of sarcasm?

Really Not All That Bright 01-30-2013 10:13 AM

Hey, it's your well. If you want to poison it, be my guest.

Condescending Robot 01-30-2013 10:15 AM

If you don't believe that, what possible reason do you have for listing every incident of violence involving a gun? Make your argument.

Really Not All That Bright 01-30-2013 10:21 AM

It's possible that people might decide on their own not to carry guns because they're dangerous, you know. Or maybe those people just like making lists. I am fairly certain that America's Dumbest Criminals or whatever that Fox special is called is not intended to influence law enforcement policy, for example. People also make lists of car accidents without demanding the banning of private ownership of cars.

Condescending Robot 01-30-2013 10:24 AM

So, just a coincidence, being done for no reason then. OK.

Really Not All That Bright 01-30-2013 10:27 AM

Could you maybe put all your straw men into one post?

madmonk28 01-30-2013 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Condescending Robot (Post 15953245)
If you don't believe that, what possible reason do you have for listing every incident of violence involving a gun? Make your argument.

My argument would be that a) dumb asses shooting themselves with guns they bought for "protection" is funny as shit and b) in order to discuss an issue, we must understand it. The fact that the NRA actively blocks attempts to better understand gun violence is a strong indicator that if America had more data, it might well draft gun legislation that is not in the gun industry's interest.

And it really helps if you read Ohh Shoot with Yakety Sax playing in your head.

Fear Itself 01-30-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Condescending Robot (Post 15953245)
If you don't believe that, what possible reason do you have for listing every incident of violence involving a gun? Make your argument.

Fewer people smoke today, due in large part to the campaign against smoking over the last 40 years. Yet tobacco is still legal. We seek to do the same for guns. We will convince your children, or their children, that gun ownership has a net negative effect on the nation, and is not necessary to pursue life, liberty and happiness. Maybe not tomorrow, or next year, but the arc of history will bend away from personal gun ownership. And it will be done without banning all firearms, or seizing anyone's guns.

Hentor the Barbarian 01-30-2013 10:32 AM

It's helpful to know that approximately 100,000 people in the US will be shot each year. It's helpful to know that approximately 30,000 people will die from gunshot wounds each year. It's helpful to consider the varying features of individual firearm incidents and to watch them accrue over time.

It may be akin to the fact that one may factually know the forces that create the tides and have a sense of the volumes involved, but may find that it's still informative nevertheless to stand on the beach.

It's even more informative to be buffeted by rip tides, albeit often with dire consequences.

elucidator 01-30-2013 10:35 AM

When I was but a wee lad, our local newspaper in Waco, TX had a custom of putting certain news in a predictable place. For instance, on the comics page, on the lower right hand side, was where you read about people getting shot. The format was standardized: "There was an altercation at the Dew Drop Inn last night. Jimmy Joe DeWitt was hospitalized at Methodist Hospital as a result of a gun shot injury. Police are investigating...." And so forth. It was normal, saw it all the time.

It wasn't until I left Texas that I noticed that other places didn't have that custom, that they seemed to regard a gunshot injury as something pretty unusual. It was news. It was exceptional.

So, perhaps there is a value to letting people know just how common Stupid Gun Tricks are in America. Maybe.

Really Not All That Bright 01-30-2013 10:40 AM

Were the comics also about people getting shot? It was Texas.

Fear Itself 01-30-2013 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright (Post 15953330)
Were the comics also about people getting shot? It was Texas.

The Phantom carried not one, but two semi-automatic pistols.

Der Trihs 01-30-2013 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer (Post 15952231)
Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Criminals (illegally) CONCEAL their (illegal) guns. Why in the world would anybody bent on robbery or mayhem alert their target ahead of time? Any criminal who openly carried his weapon would be almost as stupid as you are.

As said, nonsense. If carrying guns openly becomes normal, then criminals will carry them openly to blend in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer (Post 15952231)
Anyhow, that's probably why this guy carried his rifle into the store to begin with--to show people that somebody carried an evil "assault rifle" into a public place, and nothing bad happened. Perhaps all those idiots who were stupid enough to call the police for no reason at all will realize that this is what is called a "teachable moment."

The lesson being that gun owners tend to be amoral jerks and bullies. And the police weren't called for "no reason at all"; fear is a rational response to someone doing what he did. As I said, he's lucky there wasn't a fellow Second Amendment fan there who didn't decide to go all "heroic", pull out a concealed weapon and shoot him. Or that the cops weren't overzealous and shot him. He was endangering himself and others, and being a bullying jerk.

If things had gone a little differently he'd have gotten himself a Darwin Award.

Euphonious Polemic 01-30-2013 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Condescending Robot (Post 15953213)
Remember, anytime someone is shot it means that the idea of private gun ownership is discredited forever and the legal protections for it can be ignored .

No, no, I disagree. Anytime someone is shot, it means that there were clearly not enough guns in the equation. The answer to any gun shooting is that more people should be armed.

For example, 15-year-old Matthew Daniels, of Sweetwater, Tennessee? Who accidentally shot himself? If only someone had been nearby with a firearm, they could have shot that gun out of his hands before he hurt himself.

And Rodrigo Diaz? Who foolishly got himself shot in the head for asking directions? If only he'd been armed with something useful, he could still be alive. Clearly he should have established a defensive position, locked and loaded, and THEN asked for directions. He could probably have defended himself then.

It's obvious, right?

madmonk28 01-30-2013 03:21 PM

Or the 5 people who were shot at events on gun appreciation day, if only they had guns...

Well, that one is the exception that proves the rule.

http://ohhshoot.blogspot.com/2013/01...gun-shows.html

Euphonious Polemic 01-30-2013 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmonk28 (Post 15954378)
Or the 5 people who were shot at events on gun appreciation day, if only they had guns...

Well, that one is the exception that proves the rule.

http://ohhshoot.blogspot.com/2013/01...gun-shows.html

No, I think what they really needed was more guns. You see, at these particular shows, they did not have enough guns for sale. This caused people to be nervous and therefore careless in their frantic haste to get a firearm before the self-proclaimed God-Emperor Obama takes all of them away.

If only there had been more guns there, these tragic accident would not have happened.

gamerunknown 01-30-2013 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew870mitchell (Post 15950754)
The rampant paranoia for one's own safety, either from other citizens or from a supposed tyrannical government, doesn't reflect well on us as a society.

I do believe murderphobia is irrational. One is far less likely to be murdered in the US than to die of heart disease. However, one is far more likely to be murdered in the US than in Canada. Also, the government has reserved the right to indefinite detention without trial of US citizens, which is pretty tyrannical.

madmonk28 01-30-2013 06:03 PM

What I love is how many fat asses I see talking about needing guns for home protection. If they want to live longer, go for a jog.

Euphonious Polemic 01-30-2013 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmonk28 (Post 15954845)
What I love is how many fat asses I see talking about needing guns for home protection. If they want to live longer, go for a jog.

Well, if they do that, they should take a gun, in case they see someone in a hoodie.

ExTank 01-30-2013 06:38 PM

For the other side of this stupid coin:

The Armed Citizen

YouTube Version

Hentor the Barbarian 01-30-2013 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExTank (Post 15954931)
For the other side of this stupid coin:

The Armed Citizen

YouTube Version

I love that in the handful of anecdotes from the Armer Citizen, on the very first page, they have anecdotes from 1985 and from 1979! I know this isn't a systematic catalog, but sheesh, it's really hard to see how you're going to get to more than a couple hundred within a year.

But you know what? I'm thrilled, assuming these stories are accurate, for their outcomes.

dropzone 01-30-2013 10:01 PM

Leftish Radio Guy Norman Goldman has been trying to make the point that some gun regulation will help to preserve the 2nd Amendment while jerks like in the OP only hasten its end by making Normals freak out. He has a point.

Double Foolscap 01-31-2013 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamerunknown (Post 15954774)
I do believe murderphobia is irrational. One is far less likely to be murdered in the US than to die of heart disease. However, one is far more likely to be murdered in the US than in Canada. Also, the government has reserved the right to indefinite detention without trial of US citizens, which is pretty tyrannical.

And having a gun is going to help with the bit I bolded? I suppose if you consider a protracted siege and eventual death by SWAT team a win...

Biffy the Elephant Shrew 01-31-2013 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamerunknown (Post 15954774)
I do believe murderphobia is irrational. One is far less likely to be murdered in the US than to die of heart disease.

Which is relevant if you know a lot of gun control advocates who are pro-heart disease.

Damuri Ajashi 01-31-2013 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmonk28 (Post 15954845)
What I love is how many fat asses I see talking about needing guns for home protection. If they want to live longer, go for a jog.

I don't know where you are but in Northern Virginia, the guys at the gun range are generally physically fit (or at least not terribly out of shape). But that might not be a representative sample of gun owners in the area.

I think gun ownership should come with a requirement to go to the gun range at least once a year. Kind of like a safety inspection to make sure you know how to use your guns and for a bit of education on gunlaws and the importance of gun safety.

It seems pretty obvious at this point that an AWB is dead and even a cap on magazine capacity is not getting very much traction. BUT it does look like we might get universal background checks. I haven't heard anything about a national gun registry or national gun licensing standards but I hope someone brings it up.

Hentor the Barbarian 02-01-2013 12:15 PM

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/0...II?showAll=yes

Here are 58 new incidents in this week's GunFail blog update.

Gyrate 02-01-2013 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian (Post 15961023)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/0...II?showAll=yes

Here are 58 new incidents in this week's GunFail blog update.

Four of the 28 non-suicide/murder stories involve either dropping or leaving a gun in the bathroom/restroom. Guns and toilets apparently do not mix.

ExTank 02-01-2013 02:45 PM

ATF's Milwaukee Sting Operation Marred by Mistakes, Failures.

madmonk28 02-01-2013 02:56 PM

Here's a good one:
Quote:

A 26-year-old Eugene, Oregon man unintentionally shot himself in the thigh with a handgun he was openly carrying in a holster on his leg.
The man was using the bathroom at Indra's Internet Lounge in downtown Eugene when he unintentionally discharged the gun. According to the owner of the cafe, after shooting himself the man crawled out of the bathroom and employees put a tourniquet on his leg to stop the bleeding until medical crews arrived. The owner added that the man was a regular at the cafe and was familiar with guns.
Police noted that in Oregon it is legal for someone to openly carry a holstered gun. Furthermore, someone wishing to openly carry a gun is not required to obtain any sort of carrying permit or undergo any sort of gun safety training.
Police are not releasing the man's name and don't plan on issuing any charges.
http://ohhshoot.blogspot.com/

ExTank 02-01-2013 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian (Post 15955355)
I love that in the handful of anecdotes from the Armer Citizen, on the very first page, they have anecdotes from 1985 and from 1979! I know this isn't a systematic catalog, but sheesh, it's really hard to see how you're going to get to more than a couple hundred within a year.

When I click the link, it comes up to January 31, 2013. Maybe you have a browser setting issue?

ETA: A handfull? There's 11 pages when I load it.

Fear Itself 02-01-2013 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExTank (Post 15961588)

You don't suppose any problems at ATF would have to do with the campaign by conservitves to hamstring it in anyway possible, including blocking the appointment of a permanent director for the last six years?

artemis 02-01-2013 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyrate (Post 15961337)
Four of the 28 non-suicide/murder stories involve either dropping or leaving a gun in the bathroom/restroom. Guns and toilets apparently do not mix.

They really don't, actually, because most handguns are carried in waistband belt holsters, and using the toilet typically involves dropping your pants. It's very easy to have a gun drop out of a waistband holster that doesn't use a retention strap when a person drops their pants to use the loo, or for a person in the next stall to try to grab the gun out of the holster if they spot it while the gun owner's pants are around his/her ankles - and if the person puts the gun on the the back of the toilet to avoid those problems, then the person risks forgetting to pick the gun back up when he/she is done. This was actually discussed in my CCW class, and the instructors' recommendation was to remove the gun from the holster and place it in the crotch of the pants, which makes it impossible to absentmindedly forget it.

Hentor the Barbarian 02-01-2013 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExTank (Post 15961629)
When I click the link, it comes up to January 31, 2013. Maybe you have a browser setting issue?

ETA: A handfull? There's 11 pages when I load it.

Have you not read your own link? Item 15: "December, 1979". Item 19: "December, 1985."

So, unless my browser is inserting text, then not a browser problem.

Also, I too get 11 pages. Even including incidents from the year that Superbowl 13 was played, there are 22 items on page 1. 22 times 11 is indeed a handful of incidents.

jasg 02-01-2013 04:11 PM

Many of the blog entries also include a "from the archives" item as well as the recent one.

Fiddle Peghead 02-01-2013 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runner pat (Post 15950532)
Image trying to store 5,000 rounds of ammo.

Potato rounds. Mmmmm!

Fiddle Peghead 02-01-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasg (Post 15950381)
I'll lead with this AR-15 in Krogers.

Quote:

"I think the law should be changed a little bit to say yes, you could carry open with a handgun, but you know you don't want to carry an assault weapon or any kind of shotgun in a public place of business," [National Rifle Association (NRA) instructor Bill Davis] said.
I'd prefer the law to say you may only open carry "large" weapons, if there must be open carry laws at all. That way, we'd all be much more likely to know that a gun-toting idiot is in the area.

carnivorousplant 02-01-2013 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian (Post 15951266)
My mother is in her 70s. She has the guts to brave the grocery store unarmed on a weekly basis.

This guy is just one giant fucking pussy.

I've not finished the thread, Sir, but as far as I am concerned, you won it.
:)

Euphonious Polemic 02-01-2013 05:22 PM

Quote:

A 26-year-old Eugene, Oregon man unintentionally shot himself in the thigh with a handgun he was openly carrying in a holster on his leg.
The man was using the bathroom at Indra's Internet Lounge in downtown Eugene when he unintentionally discharged the gun. According to the owner of the cafe, after shooting himself the man crawled out of the bathroom and employees put a tourniquet on his leg to stop the bleeding until medical crews arrived. The owner added that the man was a regular at the cafe and was familiar with guns.
Police noted that in Oregon it is legal for someone to openly carry a holstered gun. Furthermore, someone wishing to openly carry a gun is not required to obtain any sort of carrying permit or undergo any sort of gun safety training.
Police are not releasing the man's name and don't plan on issuing any charges.
I think it's pretty clear here, that if only there had been more guns, this accident would never have happened.

Anyone else want to state the obvious reason why?

carnivorousplant 02-01-2013 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 15962097)
I think it's pretty clear here, that if only there had been more guns, this accident would never have happened.

Anyone else want to state the obvious reason why?

Well, a woman would have just shot the door...

Euphonious Polemic 02-01-2013 06:35 PM

Close, but not quite.

You see, if there had been many more guns in Eugene OR, and indeed at the Indra's Internet Lounge, then obviously, the establishment would have been better prepared for customers with guns. This would have entailed gun holders in each bathroom stall, and next to each urinal.

Because guns are still fairly rare in Eugene OR, that means that fine establishments like Indra's Internet Lounge do not have bathroom gun racks. If only there were more guns, we would clearly help eradicate senseless accidents like this one. Please note that this could happen to anyone- there is NO need, I repeat NO NEED for any gun safety courses. This would just lead to a slippery slope of courses, more courses, registration, confiscation and finally Hitler.

elucidator 02-01-2013 06:36 PM

Now, that can legitimately be described as a cultural and regional distinction. There have always been places where carrying a hunting rifle openly is no big deal. Which is fine, different strokes.

Euphonious Polemic 02-01-2013 06:52 PM

Whatever.

The point is, there is no bad situation that cannot be improved by utilizing the very simple solution of:

More guns.

Ca3799 02-01-2013 08:48 PM

http://www.chron.com/news/local_news...ut-4244032.php

Two people shot "in the buttocks" as a strip club? How is that possible? Was the shooter aiming for buttocks or does he just have bad aim?

Ethilrist 02-01-2013 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ca3799 (Post 15962638)
http://www.chron.com/news/local_news...ut-4244032.php

Two people shot "in the buttocks" as a strip club? How is that possible? Was the shooter aiming for buttocks or does he just have bad aim?

Perhaps lap dances may have been involved? "Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you..." BLAM!

elucidator 02-01-2013 10:32 PM

Went off half-cocked, did he?

Kable 02-01-2013 10:39 PM

Here's a good one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp5gAY6aIjA

Snowboarder Bo 02-02-2013 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable (Post 15962903)

How is this "stupid gun news"?

Gyrate 02-02-2013 07:02 AM

That actually looks sensible - calling 911 to determine how much force she can use to protect herself. Compared to some of the other stories discussed here, that's positively responsible gun ownership.

carnivorousplant 02-02-2013 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyrate (Post 15963304)
That actually looks sensible - calling 911 to determine how much force she can use to protect herself. Compared to some of the other stories discussed here, that's positively responsible gun ownership.

Yes.

Fear Itself 02-02-2013 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo (Post 15963147)
How is this "stupid gun news"?

It is stupid to gun fetishists like Kable.

Euphonious Polemic 02-02-2013 11:22 AM

She should not have wasted her time calling anyone - just blown the person away. It really does not matter if you're shooting at a potential criminal, vacuum cleaner salesman or person just asking for directions. The point is that you're defending yourself, and as long as you probably won't be convicted, then it is a righteous shoot.

Anyway, if the person she shot was innocent, he would have been OK. The human body has certain mechanisms and a way of rejecting bullets that are not intended for them.

Euphonious Polemic 02-02-2013 11:27 AM

But really, the obvious solution to the stupid situation that Kable above posed is....



Can you guess?



More guns. You see if the guy had a gun, he could have returned fire if she had shot at him. Then, whoever was left alive could have been lauded as a hero, since the dead person was obviously a criminal, and deserved to get shot. If he was killed, she was a hero for defending her home from a criminal. If she was killed, then he was a hero for defending himself against a crazy woman with a gun, shooting at anything that moved. Win-Win!

carnivorousplant 02-02-2013 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 15963794)
She should not have wasted her time calling anyone - just blown the person away.

I believe she did right. She had the police on the way, and was reminded that you can't shoot someone for rattling your doorknob, but you can if he breaks into your home and you are in fear for your life.

elucidator 02-02-2013 12:15 PM

Totally obvious. Shoot through the door, you will ruin your door. Even if you have one of those wimpy-ass .32, its still going to leave a mark.

gamerunknown 02-02-2013 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivorousplant (Post 15963848)
I believe she did right. She had the police on the way, and was reminded that you can't shoot someone for rattling your doorknob, but you can if he breaks into your home and you are in fear for your life.

Under the castle doctrine, if they've navigated the moat, they're open game for the turrets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Foolscap (Post 15956073)
And having a gun is going to help with the bit I bolded? I suppose if you consider a protracted siege and eventual death by SWAT team a win...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biffy the Elephant Shrew (Post 15957228)
Which is relevant if you know a lot of gun control advocates who are pro-heart disease.

No, of course. I just think that saying "look, be less scared of your fellow citizens and of your government" is a sly elision that ignores the facts to preserve the status quo.

Euphonious Polemic 02-02-2013 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamerunknown (Post 15964007)
Under the castle doctrine, if they've navigated the moat, they're open game for the turrets.

Woooo Hooooo! See? Fire away!

Pizza delivery to wrong house, Mormon, delivering flyers, neighbor telling you your cat is loose?

Who cares? You're in the clear - it's your castle, so fire away!

If they are at all sensible, they will be carrying too. Not your fault if they have a wimpy calibre, or a small clip.

Vinyl Turnip 02-02-2013 12:58 PM

Quote:

A 26-year-old Eugene, Oregon man unintentionally shot himself in the thigh with a handgun he was openly carrying in a holster on his leg.
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I complain that the "good guys vs. bad guys" dichotomy is overly simplistic when applied to gun rights arguments, and doesn't reflect the complex reality. Clearly, this was a good man defending himself against a bad thigh.

carnivorousplant 02-02-2013 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 15964016)

Pizza delivery to wrong house, Mormon, delivering flyers, neighbor telling you your cat is loose?

I've never had a Pizza Guy or Mormon break down my front door.

One must be in fear of one's life inside one's home.
Flyer delivery, now that is another matter. :)

Euphonious Polemic 02-02-2013 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivorousplant (Post 15964039)
I've never had a Pizza Guy or Mormon break down my front door.

One must be in fear of one's life inside one's home.

What's to stop an armed thug from disguising himself as a pizza guy or Mormon? I mean it's a terrifying and scary world out there - just turn the TV on and you'll see what I mean. It's absolutely terrifying. Paralysing fear. Gut-wrenching, pants filling fear.

So really, it's logical to shoot first, ask questions later. God will sort them out.

carnivorousplant 02-02-2013 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 15964074)
God will sort them out.

But not the court. :)

Kable 02-02-2013 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 15963805)
More guns. You see if the guy had a gun, he could have returned fire if she had shot at him. Then, whoever was left alive could have been lauded as a hero, since the dead person was obviously a criminal, and deserved to get shot. If he was killed, she was a hero for defending her home from a criminal. If she was killed, then he was a hero for defending himself against a crazy woman with a gun, shooting at anything that moved. Win-Win!

No, she should have been disarmed! Or how about this stupid gun owner? She had called 911, shouldn't she have just waited for the police to rescue her?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJQ...eature=mh_lolz

Zebra 02-02-2013 04:33 PM

She should have given the baby the hand gun. It was way to small to handle the 12 gauge.

Fear Itself 02-02-2013 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 15964016)
Pizza delivery to wrong house, Mormon, delivering flyers, neighbor telling you your cat is loose?

Who cares? You're in the clear - it's your castle, so fire away!

Man shot dead after pulling into wrong driveway
Quote:

A group of friends said they were going to pick up a girl who lived in the area to go ice skating around 10 p.m. when their GPS system sent them to the wrong home.

The friends said they pulled into the driveway and saw a man peer out the window. They said they waited in the car for a bit and then the man, Phillip Sailors, 69, came out of the home with a handgun, firing a round into the air.

“The guy came out. He went in again and he came out with a gun in his hand and he shot into the air,” 15-year-old passenger Yeson Jimenez said.

The friends said that's when they tried leaving the house, and said Sailors pointed the gun at the car and shot Rodrigo Diaz, 22, who was driving the car. An arrest warrant said Sailors had a .22-caliber pistol.

The passengers said Sailors never asked what they were doing there.
Quote:

Sailors' attorney told Thomas that the man believed he and his wife were being attacked.

“He is very distraught over the loss of life from the defense of his home. This incident happened late in the evening hours when he was home with his wife and he assumed it was a home invasion and he maintains his innocence,” the attorney said.
Now, make no mistake, this guy is going away for a long, long time. But the problem is, the perception by many gun owners is that they are justified any time they are in fear of attack. They will be prosecuted after the fact, but that won't bring back their innocent victims.

Kable 02-02-2013 06:24 PM

Hey, let's all make fun of this 72 year old man who thinks he can pay hero with his concealed pistol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6pY...dd0I_H&index=3

carnivorousplant 02-02-2013 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fear Itself (Post 15964707)
the perception by many gun owners is that they are justified any time they are in fear of attack.

I hope not. I believe you are correct in that case, however.
Perhaps there should be a license to own firearms involving a test about this sort of thing and an annual background check..
That would close the so called "gun show loophole" and make owners aware of the legislation concerning shooting at someone.
I can shoot an intruder in my house if I am in fear of my life, but I can't (nor would I want to) chase him out into the street and shoot him.

Fear Itself 02-02-2013 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable (Post 15964786)
Hey, let's all make fun of this 72 year old man who thinks he can pay hero with his concealed pistol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6pY...dd0I_H&index=3

Wow! Once upon a time, a gun worked the way it does on TV and killed the bad guy. Tell us another one, Uncle Kable!

Kable 02-02-2013 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fear Itself (Post 15964803)
Wow! Once upon a time, a gun worked the way it does on TV and killed the bad guy. Tell us another one, Uncle Kable!

Pretty cool huh! Here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcLo...pH-4MyqCdd0I_H

Let me know if you want another!

elucidator 02-02-2013 06:38 PM

Oh, sure, you liberals are all about the Wal-Mart worker, until one is getting stabbed, then you don't care unless the stabber gets shot by an illegal alien on Medicare!

carnivorousplant 02-02-2013 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elucidator (Post 15964817)
Oh, sure, you liberals are all about the Wal-Mart worker, until one is getting stabbed, then you don't care unless the stabber gets shot by an illegal alien on Medicare!

It depends if the price of WalMart socks goes up.

Der Trihs 02-02-2013 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip (Post 15964022)
Quote:

A 26-year-old Eugene, Oregon man unintentionally shot himself in the thigh with a handgun he was openly carrying in a holster on his leg.
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I complain that the "good guys vs. bad guys" dichotomy is overly simplistic when applied to gun rights arguments, and doesn't reflect the complex reality. Clearly, this was a good man defending himself against a bad thigh.

No doubt he's overweight and is chipping away at his excess fat one scoop at a time.

Snowboarder Bo 02-03-2013 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable (Post 15964498)
No, she should have been disarmed! Or how about this stupid gun owner? She had called 911, shouldn't she have just waited for the police to rescue her?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJQ...eature=mh_lolz

Are you just trying to prove that you're the dumbest gun rights proponent on the intarwebz?

Your linked story isn't about a gun owner at all. And you keep posting strawmen like you live in a hayfield.

How do you find your mouth with the food? I mean, your posts are giving the impression that you're a fucking idiot. Do you even understand why you look like an idiot?

Jack Batty 02-03-2013 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip (Post 15964022)
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I complain that the "good guys vs. bad guys" dichotomy is overly simplistic when applied to gun rights arguments, and doesn't reflect the complex reality. Clearly, this was a good man defending himself against a bad thigh.

That's hardly fair. His leg wasn't even armed.

Der Trihs 02-03-2013 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Batty (Post 15965684)
That's hardly fair. His leg wasn't even armed.

Yeah, but there's a right to bear arms, not bear legs; so it's just tough luck for any legs that get uppity.

Ca3799 02-03-2013 05:23 AM

Military hero, elite navy Seal, author of "American Sniper", shot and killed at gun range: http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/rough...189536271.html

Bill Door 02-03-2013 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ca3799 (Post 15965716)
Military hero, elite navy Seal, author of "American Sniper", shot and killed at gun range: http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/rough...189536271.html

Probably have to demote him to second deadliest U.S. sniper.

Kable 02-03-2013 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Door (Post 15965722)
Probably have to demote him to second deadliest U.S. sniper.

That's hilarious! Imagine how funny it would have been if this girl didn't have a gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPfz..._wgZ6g&index=1

Zakalwe 02-03-2013 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable (Post 15965768)
That's hilarious! Imagine how funny it would have been if this girl didn't have a gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPfz..._wgZ6g&index=1

Is there any chance you could ever link to something NOT youtube (or video-based)?

Kable 02-03-2013 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakalwe (Post 15965778)
Is there any chance you could ever link to something NOT youtube (or video-based)?

There's always a chance. What do you think of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=PoDNJQtNVoc

Isn't it great to see a 65 year old woman chase out 5 armed robbers?

Zakalwe 02-03-2013 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable (Post 15965798)
There's always a chance. What do you think of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=PoDNJQtNVoc

Isn't it great to see a 65 year old woman chase out 5 armed robbers?

I think that as long as you post videos, I'll be ignoring your posts. I'm simply not willing to commit to them that much. See, with an article, I can scan it, get the gist, and decide whether or not to follow up in more detail. Elapsed time 10-15 secs. Maybe 20-25 if the intrawebs are being crawly that day. With video, first there's load time, then I have to watch the video - at its pace. Elapsed time is probably in the minutes range. So I don't bother. Your choice, but since you're the one trying to convince me (and people like me)* of the correctness of your position then it's to your benefit to make your argument in a compelling way. Youtube ain't it for a lot of us.

* Please note that I have posted neither for nor agin the OP, I am the "undecided", the "needs convincing". I am your audience since you guys sure aren't going to change each other's minds.

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable (Post 15965798)
Isn't it great to see a 65 year old woman chase out 5 armed robbers?

Cool.

:)

Kable 02-03-2013 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakalwe (Post 15965832)
I think that as long as you post videos, I'll be ignoring your posts. I'm simply not willing to commit to them that much. See, with an article, I can scan it, get the gist, and decide whether or not to follow up in more detail. Elapsed time 10-15 secs. Maybe 20-25 if the intrawebs are being crawly that day. With video, first there's load time, then I have to watch the video - at its pace. Elapsed time is probably in the minutes range. So I don't bother. Your choice, but since you're the one trying to convince me (and people like me)* of the correctness of your position then it's to your benefit to make your argument in a compelling way. Youtube ain't it for a lot of us.

* Please note that I have posted neither for nor agin the OP, I am the "undecided", the "needs convincing". I am your audience since you guys sure aren't going to change each other's minds.

I apologize, I took you as one of the anti-gunners who only focus on the bad and ignore the good that guns are used for, and I am perhaps a bit oversensitive given the already poisoned title of this thread. As for reading, I've been talking about these articles in some other posts of mine which I think are well done.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/t...about-violence

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/t...dle-of-the-gun

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/faq-on-violence

Going forward though my counter-offensive plan is to post a good news story for every bad news story I see, and I think with the videos are harder for people to just explain away than are statistics that on this subject nobody seems to trust and don't seem to sway anyone. With a video or 911 transcript my hope is that seeing/hearing is believing.

Hentor the Barbarian 02-03-2013 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable (Post 15965869)
I apologize, I took you as one of the anti-gunners who only focus on the bad and ignore the good that guns are used for, and I am perhaps a bit oversensitive given the already poisoned title of this thread. As for reading, I've been talking about these articles in some other posts of mine which I think are well done.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/t...about-violence

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/t...dle-of-the-gun

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/faq-on-violence

Going forward though my counter-offensive plan is to post a good news story for every bad news story I see, and I think with the videos are harder for people to just explain away than are statistics that on this subject nobody seems to trust and don't seem to sway anyone. With a video or 911 transcript my hope is that seeing/hearing is believing.

It would be more impressive if you weren't repeating incidents already.

Plus you're not achieving anywhere close to a 1:1 ratio, even with the fact that you're going back in time to contrast with contemporary reports.

Kable 02-03-2013 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian (Post 15965905)
It would be more impressive if you weren't repeating incidents already.

Which one did I repeat?

Kable 02-03-2013 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo (Post 15965507)
Are you just trying to prove that you're the dumbest gun rights proponent on the intarwebz?

Your linked story isn't about a gun owner at all. And you keep posting strawmen like you live in a hayfield.

How do you find your mouth with the food? I mean, your posts are giving the impression that you're a fucking idiot. Do you even understand why you look like an idiot?

Sorry I missed your comment earlier. The victim used shotgun to save herself from a man who raped her once, and broke into her house apparently attempting to do it again. Are you suggesting it does not count because she borrowed the shotgun from a neighbor and wasn't a "gun owner" herself? Is that your objection? Really?

Lobohan 02-03-2013 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable (Post 15965969)
Sorry I missed your comment earlier. The victim used shotgun to save herself from a man who raped her once, and broke into her house apparently attempting to do it again. Are you suggesting it does not count because she borrowed the shotgun from a neighbor and wasn't a "gun owner" herself? Is that your objection? Really?

Not many people want to outlaw shotguns. So I don't see how that's in the least bit relevant.

Kable 02-03-2013 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15966092)
Not many people want to outlaw shotguns. So I don't see how that's in the least bit relevant.

Actually I think a number of people on the gun-control side want exactly that. Here's a recent admission posted on this very forum just yesterday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoe (Post 15965414)
If some of us had our druthers, all guns would be banned.

It seems pretty clear to me that they know they can't get what they want now so they are going for a little at a time. I think the preferred term for that is incrementalism, and I do think incrementalism is their best shot towards their ultimate goal. A number of gun rights advocates know this and that's why they oppose it.

Also if you look up the proposals of the 1994 assault weapon ban, you will see that some shotguns, very suitable for home defense, were in fact banned. I forget though, did that have a measurable effect on crime?

Kable 02-03-2013 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15966092)
Not many people want to outlaw shotguns. So I don't see how that's in the least bit relevant.

Also I think this one bears repeating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6pY...pH-4MyqCdd0I_H

The lady was saved with a handgun, and this very thread indicates that the general public does not like people to carry long arms in public. What's also relevant is that this lady was saved by a 72 year man, who I have to think would have been physically unable to stop the assailant had he not been armed and most likely would have been killed himself. Agree?

Lobohan 02-03-2013 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable (Post 15966151)
Actually I think a number of people on the gun-control side want exactly that. Here's a recent admission posted on this very forum just yesterday.



It seems pretty clear to me that they know they can't get what they want now so they are going for a little at a time. I think the preferred term for that is incrementalism, and I do think incrementalism is their best shot towards their ultimate goal. A number of gun rights advocates know this and that's why they oppose it.

Also if you look up the proposals of the 1994 assault weapon ban, you will see that some shotguns, very suitable for home defense, were in fact banned. I forget though, did that have a measurable effect on crime?

Which shotguns? Also I fail to see how not many isn't congruent with your, a number.

Most gun control advocates don't want to ban shotguns. I'm pretty sure more people want to ban handguns.

Lobohan 02-03-2013 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable (Post 15966177)
Also I think this one bears repeating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6pY...pH-4MyqCdd0I_H

The lady was saved with a handgun, and this very thread indicates that the general public does not like people to carry long arms in public. What's also relevant is that this lady was saved by a 72 year man, who I have to think would have been physically unable to stop the assailant had he not been armed and most likely would have been killed himself. Agree?

I don't know. But I do know that specific anecdotes are a profoundly stupid way to argue this issue.

If ten people are murdered for every one saved from assault, then it's not good argument that the one person is saved. Surely you are able to understand that?

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable (Post 15966151)
Also if you look up the proposals of the 1994 assault weapon ban, you will see that some shotguns, very suitable for home defense, were in fact banned. I forget though, did that have a measurable effect on crime?

Devil's Advocate: The guys who went on a B&E spree in the Little Rock Hillcrest neighborhood had a shotgun.

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15966184)
If ten people are murdered for every one saved from assault, then it's not good argument that the one person is saved. Surely you are able to understand that?

Rather selfishly, it depends to me upon whether I or someone I care for is the one person saved.

Lobohan 02-03-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivorousplant (Post 15966199)
Rather selfishly, it depends to me upon whether I or someone I care for is the one person saved.

If you accept those numbers (hypothetically) then statistically it is more likely they'll be one of the murdered.

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15966229)
If you accept those numbers (hypothetically) then statistically it is more likely they'll be one of the murdered.

However slim the odds, I'd still like to stack them in my favor.
:)

Ca3799 02-03-2013 11:33 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/op...yths.html?_r=0

"In the 1990s, a team headed by Arthur Kellermann of Emory University looked at all injuries involving guns kept in the home in Memphis, Seattle and Galveston, Tex. They found that these weapons were fired far more often in accidents, criminal assaults, homicides or suicide attempts than in self-defense. For every instance in which a gun in the home was shot in self-defense, there were seven criminal assaults or homicides, four accidental shootings, and 11 attempted or successful suicides. "

1:22. Ouch.

Lobohan 02-03-2013 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivorousplant (Post 15966256)
However slim the odds, I'd still like to stack them in my favor.
:)

If you accept the hypothetical, banning guns would stack the odds in your favor.

Lobohan 02-03-2013 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ca3799 (Post 15966308)
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/op...yths.html?_r=0

"In the 1990s, a team headed by Arthur Kellermann of Emory University looked at all injuries involving guns kept in the home in Memphis, Seattle and Galveston, Tex. They found that these weapons were fired far more often in accidents, criminal assaults, homicides or suicide attempts than in self-defense. For every instance in which a gun in the home was shot in self-defense, there were seven criminal assaults or homicides, four accidental shootings, and 11 attempted or successful suicides. "

1:22. Ouch.

Most gun enthusiasts don't count suicides. Even though having a gun increases the chance you'll commit suicide. Everyone has been at low emotional points and people who have a gun handy when that happens are more likely to impulsively turn the switch.

Frostillicus 02-03-2013 11:44 AM

http://americablog.com/2013/02/walma...dismember.html

Walmart thought it was OK to sell this dude a rifle. Guess what happened?

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15966335)
If you accept the hypothetical, banning guns would stack the odds in your favor.

No, I'm 5' and weigh 110 Lbs. A Junior High football player can beat the hell out of me.
I'd be an easy mark for B&E.
:)

Lobohan 02-03-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivorousplant (Post 15966409)
No, I'm 5' and weigh 110 Lbs. A Junior High football player can beat the hell out of me.
I'd be an easy mark for B&E.
:)

Yeah, but you are still much likelier to accidentally be shot, purposely be shot, or kill yourself as an unplanned impulse than to use a gun to fend off that JV Footballer at the prom.

jasg 02-03-2013 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable (Post 15965869)
I apologize, I took you as one of the anti-gunners who only focus on the bad and ignore the good that guns are used for, and I am perhaps a bit oversensitive given the already poisoned title of this thread. As for reading, I've been talking about these articles in some other posts of mine which I think are well done.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/t...about-violence

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/t...dle-of-the-gun

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/faq-on-violence

Going forward though my counter-offensive plan is to post a good news story for every bad news story I see, and I think with the videos are harder for people to just explain away than are statistics that on this subject nobody seems to trust and don't seem to sway anyone. With a video or 911 transcript my hope is that seeing/hearing is believing.

As the OP, I don't think the title is as poisoned as the "Stupid Republican/Democrat" threads I took the title from.

My intent (foolishly, in respect) was to see 'stupid' news rather than endless advocacy. Stupid things like nut jobs in Kroger or in the Senate proposing bills like Feinstein. Lots to poke fun at without debate. The stupid is strong on both sides of this national debate...

Carry on.

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15966426)
Yeah, but you are still much likelier to accidentally be shot, purposely be shot, or kill yourself as an unplanned impulse than to use a gun to fend off that JV Footballer at the prom.

I don't have an argument with him at the prom, it's when he breaks down my door that I have an argument. :)

YogSothoth 02-03-2013 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivorousplant (Post 15966465)
I don't have an argument with him at the prom, it's when he breaks down my door that I have an argument. :)

The point is that you're more likely to have killed or harmed yourself with that gun than used it on the off chance he breaks down your door. You're essentially holding on to a time bomb that could go off at any minute hoping that it will only blow up when you throw it. Its much more likely to go off in your hands.

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YogSosoth (Post 15966557)
The point is that you're more likely to have killed or harmed yourself with that gun than used it on the off chance he breaks down your door. You're essentially holding on to a time bomb that could go off at any minute hoping that it will only blow up when you throw it. Its much more likely to go off in your hands.

I've made it to 56 so far. :)
Dad had a gun at the house, and I've had one all the time I've lived alone.
I've so far only shot a raccoon that may have been rabid and a copperhead that was in my Wife's parking space.
If I had a concealed carry permit, and had I driven my Wife to work when the guy crawled in her car window, saying, "I have a gun and I'm going to kill you", I'd have used it a third time.

Lobohan 02-03-2013 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivorousplant (Post 15966610)
I've made it to 56 so far. :)
Dad had a gun at the house, and I've had one all the time I've lived alone.
I've so far only shot a raccoon that may have been rabid and a copperhead that was in my Wife's parking space.
If I had a concealed carry permit, and had I driven my Wife to work when the guy crawled in her car window, saying, "I have a gun and I'm going to kill you", I'd have used it a third time.

So you are unable to understand very basic questions of probability?

You can smoke every day of your life and die at a 100 from exhaustion after sexing a pair of 19 year old twins. That doesn't mean smoking isn't bad, and isn't detrimental to society.

I wonder how common it is to be utterly unable to separate anecdote from reality. Seems more common on the right.

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15966628)
So you are unable to understand very basic questions of probability?

Well, I don't buy lottery tickets.

Lobohan 02-03-2013 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivorousplant (Post 15966713)
Well, I don't buy lottery tickets.

At last common ground! :D

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 02:05 PM

In an effort to conform to the OP, I thought there was a story where the deer shot the hunter, but here is the next best.

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15966628)

I wonder how common it is to be utterly unable to separate anecdote from reality. Seems more common on the right.

Wait a minute, I'm left wing save for this particular issue! :)

elucidator 02-03-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivorousplant (Post 15966749)
In an effort to conform to the OP, I thought there was a story where the deer shot the hunter, but here is the next best.

Cue Aerosmith:

Bambi's got a gun...chicka wang wang
Hunters on the run...chicka wang wang
What are they gonna do?
When the deer can shoot you too?

Smapti 02-03-2013 02:42 PM

A former Navy SEAL sniper and author of books about sniping was shot at a gun range today.

Clearly, this never would have happened if only the snipers and gun range attendees had been allowed to have guns to defend themselves with.

Lobohan 02-03-2013 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivorousplant (Post 15966762)
Wait a minute, I'm left wing save for this particular issue! :)

I know, that's why I was confused!

Lobohan 02-03-2013 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smapti (Post 15966866)
A former Navy SEAL sniper and author of books about sniping was shot at a gun range today.

Clearly, this never would have happened if only the snipers and gun range attendees had been allowed to have guns to defend themselves with.

More guns is surely the answer. If he had been under a pile of guns, the bullets may have deflected.

Also, it's really shitty that a hyper-competent soldier was killed by some dipshit run amok.

Dallas Jones 02-03-2013 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15966184)
I don't know. But I do know that specific anecdotes are a profoundly stupid way to argue this issue.

If ten people are murdered for every one saved from assault, then it's not good argument that the one person is saved. Surely you are able to understand that?

Well then, the Newtown Conn. school shooting is just one specific anecdote about a deranged young criminal with stolen weapons. Isn't it?

elucidator 02-03-2013 03:21 PM

How long do you plan to keep us in suspense before you tell us what your point is?

Sailboat 02-03-2013 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15966884)
More guns is surely the answer. If he had been under a pile of guns, the bullets may have deflected.

Also, it's really shitty that a hyper-competent soldier was killed by some dipshit run amok.

Initial reports are that said dipshit was also a military-trained sniper himself.

Lobohan 02-03-2013 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailboat (Post 15967009)
Initial reports are that said dipshit was also a military-trained sniper himself.

I guess he's Pat Garret then.

Lobohan 02-03-2013 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas Jones (Post 15966980)
Well then, the Newtown Conn. school shooting is just one specific anecdote about a deranged young criminal with stolen weapons. Isn't it?

Sure. 30 thousand people a year is data. The 26 are just a point.

dropzone 02-03-2013 05:35 PM

I know they recommend that if you fall off a horse you should get back on him, but I don't recall the treatment for PTSD included taking the sufferers out shooting. In fact, I seem to recall that back in the Seventies folks would try to keep those guys away from guns. It being, y'know, sensible.

Is this a part of the belief that more guns fix everything? And is that based on, "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail?" 'Cuz they need a larger took kit.

Euphonious Polemic 02-03-2013 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15966884)
More guns is surely the answer. If he had been under a pile of guns, the bullets may have deflected.

A good effort my friend. But let's not get silly here.

The sniper who was shot was clearly well trained with weapons. But this was just as clearly not enough. We have to ask ourselves "why?". Well, when shooting at a range, there is a time when you have expended all the ammunition in your particular weapon, be that 5, 10 or 30 shots. It is at this time you are most vulnerable. And the folks who know your vulnerability best are your fellow shooters who are (you know they are!) counting your shots. How many does he have left before he's out?

The solution is clear. All gun ranges should have trained armed guards, standing well behind the customers. They will never be out of ammo. They can keep a sharp eye on the folks to the left and to the right of you, and make sure that they do not get out of line and kill you. Any move by them to swing a weapon your way and fire? BLAM! Down they go.

More guns. Armed guards. Really, the solutions is so simple, I don't see why it are not implemented immediately.

Ca3799 02-03-2013 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 15967375)
A good effort my friend. But let's not get silly here.

The sniper who was shot was clearly well trained with weapons. But this was just as clearly not enough. We have to ask ourselves "why?". Well, when shooting at a range, there is a time when you have expended all the ammunition in your particular weapon, be that 5, 10 or 30 shots. It is at this time you are most vulnerable. And the folks who know your vulnerability best are your fellow shooters who are (you know they are!) counting your shots. How many does he have left before he's out?

The solution is clear. All gun ranges should have trained armed guards, standing well behind the customers. They will never be out of ammo. They can keep a sharp eye on the folks to the left and to the right of you, and make sure that they do not get out of line and kill you. Any move by them to swing a weapon your way and fire? BLAM! Down they go.

More guns. Armed guards. Really, the solutions is so simple, I don't see why it are not implemented immediately.


This is entirely sensible. While it is sad this man died, I think all future school, theater, grocery store and random restaurant shooters should commit their future crimes at the gun range. It would be much more challenging and keep all the gun afficianodos all together in one place making the rest of us safer!

dropzone 02-03-2013 05:48 PM

I think that, because Kyle was a sniper, he never expected a shot from less than a kilometer away to do him in. I mean, if you can't trust a guy you barely knew but whom you knew had serious mental problems to not shoot you, who can you trust?

Ethilrist 02-03-2013 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropzone (Post 15967368)
I know they recommend that if you fall off a horse you should get back on him, but I don't recall the treatment for PTSD included taking the sufferers out shooting. In fact, I seem to recall that back in the Seventies folks would try to keep those guys away from guns. It being, y'know, sensible.

Is this a part of the belief that more guns fix everything? And is that based on, "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail?" 'Cuz they need a larger took kit.

There exists the possibility that Kyle wasn't actually a licensed trauma therapist.

Lobohan 02-03-2013 05:56 PM

"Just back from 'Nam? C'mon man, come with me tonight to the fireworks show in the swamp."

dropzone 02-03-2013 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethilrist (Post 15967394)
There exists the possibility that Kyle wasn't actually a licensed trauma therapist.

Likelihood, is what I think you are saying, but he and his foundation were dedicated to helping emotionally wounded veterans. Treatment is not a job for amateurs, no matter how good-hearted.

dropzone 02-03-2013 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15967410)
"Just back from 'Nam? C'mon man, come with me tonight to the fireworks show in the swamp."

Oh, Jesus, I would hear news stories about guys who reacted poorly to Asian ladies in black pants suits because they looked too much like the VC, then see MORE Asian ladies in black pants suits at the mall. I could only think, "Sometimes it's best to not be stylish."

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 06:29 PM

Here's one of the 'dog shoots man' stories.
Very stupid to have a loaded gun in the car.

Euphonious Polemic 02-03-2013 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivorousplant (Post 15967533)
Here's one of the 'dog shoots man' stories.
Very stupid to have a loaded gun in the car.

I think we can all agree that this tragic situation could have been avoided by the simple solution of having more guns.

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 15967585)
I think we can all agree that this tragic situation could have been avoided by the simple solution of having more guns.

Well, yes. If the dog had to dig through a pile of unloaded guns to get to the loaded one, this tragedy would have been prevented.

Euphonious Polemic 02-03-2013 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivorousplant (Post 15967653)
Well, yes. If the dog had to dig through a pile of unloaded guns to get to the loaded one, this tragedy would have been prevented.

Again, so close...

This poor man had only one gun in his vehicle. This was likely due to the gun-grabbers in his area that have made it so very, very difficult to obtain firearms. If only he had several guns, do you think he would have left them on a pile on the car seat? No, he would have had a proper gun rack installed in his vehicle, preventing this unfortunate, unforseeable accident.

You see? It is all the fault of the gun-grabbers. They are just like Hitler.

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 15967801)
No, he would have had a proper gun rack installed in his vehicle, preventing this unfortunate, unforseeable accident.

The guy was a moron, having a loaded gun in the car, a poster child for You Guys. :)

Lamar Mundane 02-03-2013 08:25 PM

Top Conservative Cat ‏@TeaPartyCat
Wayne LaPierre says the power outage at the #SuperBowl was caused by "violent video games."

elucidator 02-03-2013 08:34 PM

I would like to take a moment to extend my condolences to the entire gay community for today's Super Bowl outcome.

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamar Mundane (Post 15967931)
Top Conservative Cat ‏@TeaPartyCat
Wayne LaPierre says the power outage at the #SuperBowl was caused by "violent video games."

Oh come on, no link? :)

carnivorousplant 02-03-2013 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elucidator (Post 15967963)
I would like to take a moment to extend my condolences to the entire gay community for today's Super Bowl outcome.

This is a Sporting Event, right?
I'm not into watching grown men play children's games. :)

Kable 02-03-2013 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic (Post 15967801)
Again, so close...

This poor man had only one gun in his vehicle. This was likely due to the gun-grabbers in his area that have made it so very, very difficult to obtain firearms. If only he had several guns, do you think he would have left them on a pile on the car seat? No, he would have had a proper gun rack installed in his vehicle, preventing this unfortunate, unforseeable accident.

You see? It is all the fault of the gun-grabbers. They are just like Hitler.

He should have just kept his gun with the muzzle pointing in a safe direction, and certainly had his safety on.

For something else funny, check out this old man popping rounds off inside city limits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e487pIVPWO4

Kable 02-03-2013 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobohan (Post 15967140)
Sure. 30 thousand people a year is data. The 26 are just a point.

That's all I'm doing too. Just making a point.


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