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-   -   Cleveland Browns turnaround bandwagon (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=861690)

SenorBeef 09-05-2018 01:53 PM

Cleveland Browns turnaround bandwagon
 
Alright, for no reason at all it's time to embarass myself with predictions.

The Browns were on Hard Knocks this year, and that tends to get a lot more people following the team a bit. They've been 1-31 in the last two seasons which is historically bad - as far as I know, the worst run in football ever.

But there's an energy about this team. Significant roster turnover. Todd Haley was brought in to be the OC which ideally will leave Hue Jackson involved in fewer decisions. I know Pittsburgh fans love to shit on Haley, but the guy had a top 5 offense every year.

They've had a great preseason - and I know, "preseason doesn't matter" - that's not true, though. Who wins preseason games doesn't matter. Whether your o-line can create holes or protect your QBs, whether your QBs can hit their targets, whether your defenders can tackle - all of that stuff is a reflection of the team's real capabilities. And the Browns defense has looked dominant - Myles Garrett is looking like the prospect he was drafted as, and potential non-awful QB play is enough to get by on.

And really, QB play was such a huge determining factor in the last couple of years. I really don't think the 0-16 Browns were as bad as the 0-16 Lions. They were in a lot of games they were doing well in until a Kizer redzone turnover. I don't even really blame the kid - he had bad coaching, a bad situation, was too young, and too over his head. But he did hold back the team tremendously - the 2017 Browns were a lesson in how much bad QB play can drag down an otherwise somewhat decent team.

So I think Tyrod is a good pickup. He's not going to lose games the way Kizer did. His steady hand combined with a good running game and good defense could very well lead to a team that competes week in and week out with anyone.

I'm also all on board the Mayfield train. I think if he was 3 inches taller we'd be talking about him as the best draft prospect in a generation, but between him not being the ideal size and a little bit of "lol Browns" he's coming in underrated. But I think he's smart, he's worked hard for everything he's earned, and wherever he goes his teammates seem to love him. I really do think he's the guy.

So anyway, at the risk of embarassing myself, I'm gonna put it all on the line here: I think the Browns make one of the biggest turnarounds in sports and are a tough team no one wants to play this year. I'm not saying playoffs, but I think around 7 or 8 wins is definitely a possibility, along with being a team that no one wants to play.

So I'm inviting anyone who wants to be on board to join the bandwagon and keep track of the Browns season here.

Shut Up Lutz! 09-05-2018 03:55 PM

Curious why you didn't mention the owner of the team has mob affiliations and is under investigation for s series of murders that have taken place at the various truck stops he owns.

Such a classy guy.

Such a classy organization.

oh yeah, let's not forget the continual hand waving away of the fact that teams and the NFL's GOAT, one Jim Brown is an unrepentant and habitual abuser of women, punching them, throwing off balconies and down flights of stairs.

Such a classy guy.

And now Brown has come out on Trump's side vis a vie the National Anthem protests.

FoieGrasIsEvil 09-05-2018 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shut Up Lutz! (Post 21189106)
Curious why you didn't mention the owner of the team has mob affiliations and is under investigation for s series of murders that have taken place at the various truck stops he owns.

Such a classy guy.

Such a classy organization.

oh yeah, let's not forget the continual hand waving away of the fact that teams and the NFL's GOAT, one Jim Brown is an unrepentant and habitual abuser of women, punching them, throwing off balconies and down flights of stairs.

Such a classy guy.

And now Brown has come out on Trump's side vis a vie the National Anthem protests.

None of this really has much to do with football though, does it?

SenorBeef 09-05-2018 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shut Up Lutz! (Post 21189106)
Curious why you didn't mention the owner of the team has mob affiliations and is under investigation for s series of murders that have taken place at the various truck stops he owns.

Curious indeed. I wonder why I wouldn't include this in my OP. It fits in perfectly tonally.

I didn't know there were still people that hated the Browns on this level. That seems so silly.

Hamlet 09-05-2018 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorBeef (Post 21189194)
I didn't know there were still people that hated the Browns on this level. That seems so silly.

Haslam is the reason I can't really root for the Browns to do too well. I want that piece of shit to get absolutely no positive benefit from life whatsoever. While the fans certainly deserve a good team, a good GM, and a good year, the owner is will continue to make it nigh but impossible for me to root for them to make the playoffs or find any true success until he sells that team.

Guinastasia 09-05-2018 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorBeef (Post 21189194)
Curious indeed. I wonder why I wouldn't include this in my OP. It fits in perfectly tonally.

I didn't know there were still people that hated the Browns on this level. That seems so silly.

You do realize us Steelers fans are still around, right? ;)

Barkis is Willin' 09-05-2018 05:32 PM

I'm a Browns fan, but hesitant to board the turnaround bandwagon. I think they'll win some games, so improvement from last year is a given. The AFC North does not have a team, not even Pittsburgh, that scares me much. So who knows, maybe the Browns can win the division!

FoieGrasIsEvil 09-05-2018 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkis is Willin' (Post 21189336)
The AFC North does not have a team that scares me much.

See avatar. Be afraid. Be VERY afraid. Geno Atkins is going to break Baker Mayfield in half and AJ Green is going to dance in your endzone five times.

kunilou 09-05-2018 06:12 PM

I'm just upset that the St. Louis Rams had the worst three-season record at 6-42, until the Browns came along with their 4-44 steamroller.

St. Louis lost its team. The least you could have done was leave us with our records.

Jackmannii 09-05-2018 06:49 PM

The Browns could well be improved to the point of getting mentions as a playoff contender, at least until November rolls around. A 6-win season doesn't seem unreasonable.

Unless there's a major drug bust involving the entire receiving corps...

DinoR 09-05-2018 07:03 PM

I grew up in NW Ohio. It was both Lions and Browns territory for coverage by the media.
Lesson number one - The "this is our year" turnaround bandwagon for both teams usually ends up burning in the ditch.

Be happy if the young players still look good when the games count and their opponents are trying to win. Hopefully those younger players show development. If the team is keeping games close enough to be interesting it's pretty awesome regardless of record. If they win enough of those close games to not be mathematically eliminated 8-10 games into the season it was a great turnaround to build on.

Cleveland looks like they have a real chance to break the streak of extreme misery. There's a big caveat. I thought the same thing about the Lion's chances after a 4-0 preseason where they showed what I thought was genuine improvement. Can you say "oh for sixteen?" :p

Ellis Dee 09-05-2018 11:44 PM

I'm on board, partly because of Hard Knocks and partly because my only fantasy team had two key pieces (Jarvis Landry, Carlos Hyde) traded to the Browns this offseason, which kind of married me to the Browns against my will.

I absolutely see them getting at least 6-8 wins this year, and wouldn't at all be surprised to see them whup it up on the Steelers in the opener, something like 27-10.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinastasia (Post 21189266)
You do realize us Steelers fans are still around, right? ;)

It's sort of like how Patriots fans hate the Jets, I guess? I never really understood it, though. It's like the hammer hating the nail: Is the nail really a threat to the hammer?

ZipperJJ 09-05-2018 11:57 PM

I dunno if I can get on a bandwagon. Much easier just to tailgate.

I'll show up every week and clap and sigh and think "are we really doing this??" if our record breaks .500.

It's not like I've got any other team to care about. I'm absolutely myopic when it comes to football. I'm always there for the Browns, for sure, but I can't predict anything with this team.

DCnDC 09-06-2018 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunilou (Post 21189443)
I'm just upset that the St. Louis Rams had the worst three-season record at 6-42, until the Browns came along with their 4-44 steamroller.

St. Louis lost its team. The least you could have done was leave us with our records.

Hey, they won a Superbowl and enjoyed a few years as the prototype NFL franchise.

And then there were those lovely years with Tony Banks under center...

Gray Ghost 09-06-2018 09:00 AM

I just wanted to congratulate Beef on using "his steady hand" in connection with Tyrod Taylor. It may be the first time that description's ever been used about him.

In all seriousness though, it's not like you guys were going to get any worse.

Over under on games before Mayfield gets the starting gig? Doubt it'll be shorter than the Texans ditching Tom Savage after the first half of Game 1. I'm thinking...maybe Game 5 against the Ravens at home?

Atamasama 09-07-2018 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunilou (Post 21189443)
I'm just upset that the St. Louis Rams had the worst three-season record at 6-42, until the Browns came along with their 4-44 steamroller.

St. Louis lost its team. The least you could have done was leave us with our records.

At least you guys have great barbecue.

Barkis is Willin' 09-07-2018 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost (Post 21190452)
Over under on games before Mayfield gets the starting gig? Doubt it'll be shorter than the Texans ditching Tom Savage after the first half of Game 1. I'm thinking...maybe Game 5 against the Ravens at home?

The bye doesn't come until week 11. If they're like 3-7, I could see the change at that point. The earliest I could see it happening is if they're 0-3 and Tyrod looks really bad. That third game is against the Jets and on a Thursday, so there would be a couple extra days to get Mayfield ready to go.

Slow Moving Vehicle 09-07-2018 06:09 PM

I've been a Browns fan since the early 70s. I'll hope, but I'm not expecting much. The nice thing, though, is that the bar is so low; winning a single game will be a huge improvement. And as SenorBeef pointed out, it's not like every game last year was a blowout.

Also a huge Georgia fan, so I'll be keeping an eye on Nick Chubb, who was arguably the most potent running threat for the Dawgs since Herschel Walker. I was delighted he went to Cleveland, and hope his skill can translate to the next level. (Which is of course not guaranteed; see Leinart, M. and Tebow, T.)

Airman Doors, USAF 09-07-2018 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorBeef (Post 21189194)
Curious indeed. I wonder why I wouldn't include this in my OP. It fits in perfectly tonally.

I didn't know there were still people that hated the Browns on this level. That seems so silly.

I hate the Browns because Iím a Steelers fan and itís what we do.

I think 8-8 is a little on the optimistic side, but 6-7 wins is very realistic.

One of them wonít be this Sunday, though.

Chisquirrel 09-08-2018 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost (Post 21190452)
I just wanted to congratulate Beef on using "his steady hand" in connection with Tyrod Taylor. It may be the first time that description's ever been used about him.

In all seriousness though, it's not like you guys were going to get any worse.

Over under on games before Mayfield gets the starting gig? Doubt it'll be shorter than the Texans ditching Tom Savage after the first half of Game 1. I'm thinking...maybe Game 5 against the Ravens at home?

Week 2, but he'll be pulled by Week 4, then reinstated Week 5, pulled by halftime, then start for good around Week 10. The entire time, Hue will be hee-heeing in press conferences as he ruins yet another quarterback by being a mercurial idiot.

Atamasama 09-08-2018 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chisquirrel (Post 21194975)
Week 2, but he'll be pulled by Week 4, then reinstated Week 5, pulled by halftime, then start for good around Week 10. The entire time, Hue will be hee-heeing in press conferences as he ruins yet another quarterback by being a mercurial idiot.

Donít forget being injured. Browns QBs need to get injured, I think the NFL has a rule about that.

zamboniracer 09-08-2018 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF (Post 21194749)
I hate the Browns because Iím a Steelers fan and itís what we do.

I think 8-8 is a little on the optimistic side, but 6-7 wins is very realistic.

One of them wonít be this Sunday, though.

I don't know. The weather is predicting 3-4" of rain, which is apt to throw off game plans for both teams.

Shut Up Lutz! 09-08-2018 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil (Post 21189156)
None of this really has much to do with football though, does it?

So the fact that Jim Brown was physically assaulting and physically abusing women WHILE he was playing for the Browns and has continued to do so to this day while being paid by the Browns and doing appearances as a spokesman for both the Browns and the NFL while the NFL has been simultaneously mouthing off about how much they appreciate and love women, "LOOK ALL YOU BROADS!!! WE'VE GOT PINK RIBBONS AND PINK TOWELS AND PINK SHIRTS THAT PROVE THE NFL IS GIVING LIP SERVICE TO TIT CANCER!!!!!! while doing NOTHING to curb the huge problem the NFL has when it comes to players beating and assaulting women, has NOTHING to do with football.

Wow. You voted for Trump, that's for damn sure.

Hamlet 09-08-2018 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shut Up Lutz! (Post 21195398)
So the fact that Jim Brown was physically assaulting and physically abusing women WHILE he was playing for the Browns and has continued to do so to this day while being paid by the Browns and doing appearances as a spokesman for both the Browns and the NFL while the NFL has been simultaneously mouthing off about how much they appreciate and love women, "LOOK ALL YOU BROADS!!! WE'VE GOT PINK RIBBONS AND PINK TOWELS AND PINK SHIRTS THAT PROVE THE NFL IS GIVING LIP SERVICE TO TIT CANCER!!!!!! while doing NOTHING to curb the huge problem the NFL has when it comes to players beating and assaulting women, has NOTHING to do with football.

Wow. You voted for Trump, that's for damn sure.

I hate it when someone has a modicum of a point, but totally buries it under a pile of steaming garbage, idiotic all caps, and baseless, ad hominum attacks and insults. You could have rationally pointed out that the NFL certainly engages in hypocrisy and its hiring and using of people who are assholes is a major flaw of theirs. You could have pointed out that you would never support any team in the NFL because each and every one of them has, at some point or another, paid someone who has been violent or abusive to women. You could have stuck with facts and made a coherent argument.

But nope. You went with the "LOOK AT ME!!!! I'M AN ASSHOLE!!!" route. Good luck with that. I'm sure it will bring you much happiness and many, many friends.

FoieGrasIsEvil 09-08-2018 03:55 PM

Well, looks like he's now friends with the moderators.

Hamlet 09-08-2018 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil (Post 21195726)
Well, looks like he's now friends with the moderators.

Shut up, you Trump supporter!

:)

Omniscient 09-09-2018 03:53 AM

So, I’ll go on record as the dissenter. The Browns will improve to whopping 3-13 this year. Mostly because I think Hue Jackson will cost them 2-3 wins by himself. He came across like a buffoon on Hard Knocks and his win percentage makes sooooo much sense.

I think their GM is a meathead and turning over 70% of your roster, even when that roster went 0-16, is not a recipe for short term success. Continuity matters and there weren’t 40-some players on the open market that were top-half of the league at their position.

The biggest threat to my prediction is Tyrod and Josh Gordon, but I doubt both guys play together for more than 9 games.

Fugazi 09-09-2018 11:28 AM

I've been a Browns fan forever. I don't think they have a realistic shot at the playoffs this year. I'm hoping for 5-6 wins and competitive in most games. Beating the Steelers and the Ravens at least once each would be good too.

That said things could line up and stuff actually breaking right for the Browns, but I'm a Cleveland fan and we're used to things mostly not going our way.

So if I take off my Brown and Orange colored glasses (which I don't do), then Chisquirrel's prediction is probably how it will go.

Now I'm off to the Mile High Brown's Backers bar to watch the game.

mhendo 09-09-2018 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamlet (Post 21189252)
Haslam is the reason I can't really root for the Browns to do too well. I want that piece of shit to get absolutely no positive benefit from life whatsoever. While the fans certainly deserve a good team, a good GM, and a good year, the owner is will continue to make it nigh but impossible for me to root for them to make the playoffs or find any true success until he sells that team.

I agree with you about Hasl;am. The problem, for me, is that this general point could apply to a significant majority of NFL teams. The billionaire owners of these teams are, as a group, a pretty fucking egregious bunch of assholes. I can think of at least a half-dozen whose pain and suffering I would actively celebrate, and a bunch more whom I wouldn't piss on if they caught fire.

SenorBeef 09-09-2018 02:25 PM

Tyrod not looking the part of a savvy game manager so far. 3 interceptions for no points is pathetic.

DCnDC 09-09-2018 04:52 PM

Got a real nail biter over there.

Airman Doors, USAF 09-09-2018 04:54 PM

Congratulations. I’m dead inside.

Hamlet 09-09-2018 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhendo (Post 21196923)
I agree with you about Hasl;am. The problem, for me, is that this general point could apply to a significant majority of NFL teams. The billionaire owners of these teams are, as a group, a pretty fucking egregious bunch of assholes. I can think of at least a half-dozen whose pain and suffering I would actively celebrate, and a bunch more whom I wouldn't piss on if they caught fire.

Which is why you root for a team that is community owned rather some rich fucker.

Isosleepy 09-09-2018 04:57 PM

Wow. Not losing, yet no free beer. How very Cleveland.

SenorBeef 09-09-2018 04:58 PM

Huh.

DCnDC 09-09-2018 05:00 PM

That's progress, I suppose.

Ellis Dee 09-09-2018 05:01 PM

Holy shit, seriously? A tie? Come on.

For me personally, my fantasy roster this week featured two Browns and two Steelers:

Every single active spot on my roster is currently in the red except the two Browns (Carlos Hyde, Jarvis Landry) who both just barely outperformed their projections. No doubt a full extra quarter helped with that, but still.

Meanwhile, both Browns opponents I started (Big Ben, Steelers DEF) solidly underperformed, with Ben scoring 10 to his projected 18.

So far so good on the Browns train. They're stepping up for my fantasy team nicely, and hey, they're technically undefeated in real life. (My beloved Giants, not so much.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamlet (Post 21197291)
Which is why you root for a team that is community owned rather some rich fucker.

Just to jump in here, I have no problems with the Mara family. Having two hot actresses in the family sure doesn't hurt.

iiandyiiii 09-09-2018 05:02 PM

That's just unbelievably awesome. Apparently the Browns fans are celebrating in the streets.

Airman Doors, USAF 09-09-2018 05:03 PM

How...

OK, I’m not dead inside, just sick. Not a loss is better than a loss, but that’s the only thing I can take out of that.

Omniscient 09-09-2018 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamlet (Post 21197291)
Which is why you root for a team that is community owned rather some rich fucker.

I'm a part owner, so you have to deal with that.

Fugazi 09-09-2018 07:43 PM

Heard this stat. Since the Browns came back into the league in 1999, teams with a +5 turnover margin have gone 132-4-1. Of those 5 non-wins the Browns have 2 of the losses, and the tie.

Only the Browns could accomplish such a feat.

mhendo 09-09-2018 07:54 PM

[QUOTE=Hamlet;21189252]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellis Dee (Post 21197307)
Meanwhile, both Browns opponents I started (Big Ben, Steelers DEF) solidly underperformed, with Ben scoring 10 to his projected 18.

I have the Fat-Faced Fuck as my QB too. 3 INT, 4 Sacks, and 2 lost fumbles.

I might have to trade him for Blake Bortles. If my QB is going to suck anyway, I'd prefer to have someone who doesn't instill an overwhelming urge to punch him in the face.

Atamasama 09-09-2018 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniscient (Post 21196516)
So, Iíll go on record as the dissenter. The Browns will improve to whopping 3-13 this year.

Thus is now literally impossible to achieve.

On a side note, my autocorrect wanted to change Tyrod into Turd. Even my phone is rooting against the Browns!!!

CastletonSnob 09-09-2018 10:13 PM

What are the chances of the Browns going 0-15-1?

Airman Doors, USAF 09-09-2018 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CastletonSnob (Post 21197795)
What are the chances of the Browns going 0-15-1?

Pretty low. They are a much better team than they were last year.

asterion 09-09-2018 10:25 PM

Anyone else rooting for a 0-0-16 season now?

MadTheSwine 09-09-2018 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF (Post 21194749)
but 6-7 wins is very realistic.

One of them wonít be this Sunday, though.

Good call!

Chisquirrel 09-09-2018 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asterion (Post 21197821)
Anyone else rooting for a 0-0-16 season now?

That's equivalent to 8-8, and a possible playoff berth if the rest of the division stinks it up, yes?

In that case, bring on the ties!

SenorBeef 09-10-2018 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF (Post 21194749)
I hate the Browns because Iím a Steelers fan and itís what we do.

I think 8-8 is a little on the optimistic side, but 6-7 wins is very realistic.

One of them wonít be this Sunday, though.

Hey, look at that, the passive tense of your prediction ended up making it true.

Atamasama 09-10-2018 12:43 AM

I saw a statistic that 0-0-1 is the best start Cleveland has had since 2004?!


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