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Jinx 01-01-2019 08:39 AM

Another Football Anomaly
 
In the Ravens-Chargers game last week, the Ravens scored the last touchdown (by interception as I recall). The Ravens' score jumped from 16 to 22 Ravens. No one bothered to talk about the extra point or two-point conversion...not even the camera followed this. What happened? Am I to assume the Ravens quickly failed at whatever they attempted, and the game continued?

racer72 01-01-2019 09:23 AM

The Ravens attempted a 2 point conversion and failed.

ElvisL1ves 01-01-2019 09:26 AM

You do have to try the conversion after the expiration of regular time, because the defense can cause a turnover and score the other way. In overtime, the game is immediately over when the TD is scored, so there is no conversion attempt.

muldoonthief 01-01-2019 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21406019)
You do have to try the conversion after the expiration of regular time, because the defense can cause a turnover and score the other way. In overtime, the game is immediately over when the TD is scored, so there is no conversion attempt.

The NFL changed that rule this season - if the extra point cannot affect the result of the game (i.e. the point differential is now at least 3), they don't do the PAT. It used to be you had to the PAT after any touchdown as time expired, even if the score was now 34-0.

barbitu8 01-13-2019 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21406019)
You do have to try the conversion after the expiration of regular time, because the defense can cause a turnover and score the other way. In overtime, the game is immediately over when the TD is scored, so there is no conversion attempt.

So, if attempting a one-point conversion, the kick is blocked, the D can recover and score a TD; but I was under the impression that they can score only 1 point on that play. And if a 2-point conversion is attempted and D recovers a fumble or intercepts a pass and scores on that play, do they get only 2 points on that play?

Atamasama 01-13-2019 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbitu8 (Post 21428071)
So, if attempting a one-point conversion, the kick is blocked, the D can recover and score a TD; but I was under the impression that they can score only 1 point on that play. And if a 2-point conversion is attempted and D recovers a fumble or intercepts a pass and scores on that play, do they get only 2 points on that play?

No, a blocked extra point returned to the other end zone is worth 2 points, same as if a turnover on a two point conversion is returned to the other end zone.

ETA: The Saints were the NFL first team to score this way, back in 2015, the first year that rule went into effect:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...a-point-return

OldGuy 01-13-2019 01:44 PM

This brings up an interesting question. Suppose the team tries to kick an extra point. It's blocked and the kicking team picks it up and runs it in for the conversion. One point or two? They started from the two yard line not the 15. Suppose instead the holder muffs the snap and then he or the kicker pick it up and run it in. One point or two?

Telemark 01-13-2019 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldGuy (Post 21428190)
It's blocked and the kicking team picks it up and runs it in for the conversion. One point or two?

From the rules:
Quote:

(b) If a Try results in a touchdown by either team, two points are awarded.
As long as the play starts OK, if you run the ball into either endzone the team with the ball gets two points.

ElvisL1ves 01-13-2019 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldGuy (Post 21428190)
Suppose the team tries to kick an extra point. It's blocked and the kicking team picks it up and runs it in for the conversion. One point or two?

One in the NFL. You have to be trying for two to get two.

barbitu8 01-13-2019 06:51 PM

Wait. Wait. Telemark just cited a rule that gives 2 points to either team that recovers and runs the ball in the end zone.

DSYoungEsq 01-13-2019 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telemark (Post 21428206)
From the rules:


As long as the play starts OK, if you run the ball into either endzone the team with the ball gets two points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21428562)
One in the NFL. You have to be trying for two to get two.

Are you sure about that, ElvisL1ves?

pulykamell 01-13-2019 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbitu8 (Post 21428602)
Wait. Wait. Telemark just cited a rule that gives 2 points to either team that recovers and runs the ball in the end zone.

Maybe Elvis is getting confused with the one-point safety (which almost happened in the NFL for the first time this year in the Buffalo-New England game.)

But, yes, a blocked extra point kick returned to the opposite endzone by the defensive team is two points. Here's an example.

Atamasama 01-13-2019 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulykamell (Post 21428615)
Maybe Elvis is getting confused with the one-point safety (which almost happened in the NFL for the first time this year in the Buffalo-New England game.)

But, yes, a blocked extra point kick returned to the opposite endzone by the defensive team is two points. Here's an example.

Yes you gave the same example I did earlier in this thread. :rolleyes:

The article I cited also listed the rule.

pulykamell 01-13-2019 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atamasama (Post 21428621)
Yes you gave the same example I did earlier in this thread. :rolleyes:

ACK! My bad. Sorry about that. I only read the last post and the rule cited by Telemark, so I read the thread from there down. Sorry, I hate it when posters post something already mentioned in the thread.

Atamasama 01-13-2019 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulykamell (Post 21428624)
ACK! My bad. Sorry about that. I only read the last post and the rule cited by Telemark, so I read the thread from there down. Sorry, I hate it when posters post something already mentioned in the thread.

It’s cool! It was a good example worth mentioning twice.

ElvisL1ves 01-14-2019 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulykamell (Post 21428615)
Maybe Elvis is getting confused with the one-point safety

Or maybe you're confused about what the question was. If a team lines up to kick a one-point conversion in the NFL, screws it up somehow but gets the ball across the goal line anyway, they only get one point for it (the rule was changed about 15 years ago, and wasn't changed when the line of scrimmage for the kick was moved back). You have to try for two to get two. Yes, if the defense recovers a turnover on the play and returns it all the way, they do get two.

Clear now?

pulykamell 01-14-2019 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21429108)
Or maybe you're confused about what the question was. If a team lines up to kick a one-point conversion in the NFL, screws it up somehow but gets the ball across the goal line anyway, they only get one point for it (the rule was changed about 15 years ago, and wasn't changed when the line of scrimmage for the kick was moved back). You have to try for two to get two. Yes, if the defense recovers a turnover on the play and returns it all the way, they do get two.

Clear now?

Man, I just did not have enough coffee yesterday! But that's a more interesting question. On the one hand, it should make sense that a one-point try shouldn't result in two points if blocked, recovered by the offense, and run in. But, on the other hand, that's more difficult than a normal two-point try, so I can see just giving the two points. On the third hand, I don't really see anything in the rules that states that it is one point. Can you point to the rule to clarify for the rest of us? Would it not possibly be a dead ball if recovered by the offense? I checked the dead ball section of the rules, but I'm not sure I'm seeing anything there either.

Telemark 01-14-2019 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21429108)
Clear now?

Here's the full text of the rule related to Trys:

Quote:

ARTICLE 2. RESULTS OF A TRY
During a Try, the following shall apply:

(a) If a kick results in a field goal by the offense, one point is awarded. An artificial or manufactured tee shall not be permitted to assist in the execution of a Try-kick. (The conditions of 11-4-1 must be met.)

(b) If a Try results in a touchdown by either team, two points are awarded.

(c) If the Try results in what would ordinarily be a safety against either team, one point is awarded to the opponent.

(d) If any play results in a touchback, the Try is unsuccessful, and there shall be no replay.

(e) The Try ends when:

either team scores
the ball is dead by rule
a fumble by either team is recovered by a teammate of the fumbling player
I don't see anything that says if a kick is blocked, recovered, and advanced legally that the offense only gets one point. It's possible for it to become a dead ball and then neither team would score. But a direct reading of the rules implies that the offense would score two points if the kick was blocked or muffed, and then the ball advanced into the end zone.

pulykamell 01-14-2019 08:18 AM

OK, the ESPN site claims it's two points in that scenario. Packers are the kicking team in the hypothetical. These are following the 2015 rule changes:

Quote:

Block/Turnover Scenarios

1. Try from the 15-yard line. Kick is blocked and returned by the Bears across the Packers' goal line.

Result: Two points for the Bears.

2. Try from the 15-yard line. Kick is blocked and recovered behind the line of scrimmage (LOS) by the Packers and advanced across the Bears' goal line.

Result: Two points for the Packers.


3. Try from the 15-yard line. Kick is blocked and recovered beyond the LOS by the Packers and advanced across the Bears' goal line.

Result: Try no good. Ball is dead when recovered by the Packers beyond the LOS.
Emphasis mine. Which, now that I think about it more, actually makes sense, as it parallels the field goal rules, except a "touchdown" by either team is two points in a try situation.

DSYoungEsq 01-14-2019 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21429108)
Or maybe you're confused about what the question was. If a team lines up to kick a one-point conversion in the NFL, screws it up somehow but gets the ball across the goal line anyway, they only get one point for it (the rule was changed about 15 years ago, and wasn't changed when the line of scrimmage for the kick was moved back). You have to try for two to get two. Yes, if the defense recovers a turnover on the play and returns it all the way, they do get two.

Clear now?

You have already had the relevant rule quoted, and it disagrees with you. Do you have evidence to support your assertion? I, personally, don't know the answer, you might. That's why I asked if you were certain. When come back, please bring evidence.

Ellis Dee 01-14-2019 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves (Post 21429108)
If a team lines up to kick a one-point conversion in the NFL, screws it up somehow but gets the ball across the goal line anyway, they only get one point for it

This doesn't sound like the kind of rule the NFL would implement because it legislates fake PAT kicks out of the game. Not that anyone ever does it, or would even want to with the extra 15 yards they now have to cover, but to literally make a fake count for fewer points would be very un-NFL-like.

muldoonthief 01-14-2019 11:01 AM

I don't ElvisL1ves is right about how the 2 pt conversion has ever worked. Here's a video from 2012 (jump to 50 seconds in) when the kick was still from the 2 yard line, where the Bears faked the kick and ran it in and got 2 points.

Railer13 01-14-2019 11:14 AM

The set of rules quoted by Telemark are the current (2018) rules. Scoring a 'touchdown' on either a 1-point or a 2-point try is two points, for either the offense or defense.

But recording a 'safety' is 1 point, no matter if the play started as an extra point attempt or a two-point attempt. That, of course, would be extremely rare.

Atamasama 01-14-2019 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Railer13 (Post 21429531)
But recording a 'safety' is 1 point, no matter if the play started as an extra point attempt or a two-point attempt. That, of course, would be extremely rare.

A “conversion safety” is so rare it has never happened in the NFL, only in college. So far.

Railer13 01-14-2019 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atamasama (Post 21429724)
A “conversion safety” is so rare it has never happened in the NFL, only in college. So far.

I was certain that I had never seen it. Turns out I was wrong, because I was certainly watching this Fiesta Bowl game when it happened.

Here's a video.

Oregon had just scored a touchdown. The extra point try was partially blocked and caught by a Kansas State defender at about the line of scrimmage. He tried to run with the ball and retreated into the end zone, where he was met by a tackler. The ball carrier then lateraled the ball but it fell to the ground, where another defender fell on it. 1-point safety!

Hoopy Frood 01-15-2019 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atamasama (Post 21429724)
A “conversion safety” is so rare it has never happened in the NFL, only in college. So far.

Even rarer (essentially impossible) is the safety going the other way, where the defending team manages to down the ball in the offensive team's end zone while the offensive team still has possession. Still worth one point if it ever happens.


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