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-   -   Independence Day in Mexico (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882145)

harmonicamoon 09-16-2019 01:32 PM

Independence Day in Mexico
 
Last night President López Obrador gave the traditional shout "Viva Mexico". This happened in the Zocalo in Mexico City. In front of maybe hundreds of thousands of spectators. And not one person made an attempt on his life. Maybe because arms are not readily available here. Maybe because Obrador is popular here. But there was not one lunatic who fired a shot or exploded a bomb.

Could this have happened in the USA, with Donald Trump speaking? Obviously that many people couldn't have passed through a metal detector. Regardless if you agree or disagree with Trump, isn't it likely that there would be at least one lunatic that would want to become famous and make an attempt on his life?

Please help me understand the differences of the cultures.

I am not making any value judgements. Just trying to decipher the difference.

Thank your your insights.

enalzi 09-16-2019 01:48 PM

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but Trump has certainly made appearances out in public without anyone firing a shot or exploding a bomb.

Jonathan Chance 09-16-2019 03:07 PM

I’m thinking this may get ranty responses.

In any event, it’s sure not for Elections. Let’s try IMHO.

Colibri 09-16-2019 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harmonicamoon (Post 21863795)
Please help me understand the differences of the cultures.

You've got be kidding. More than 100 Mexican politicians were killed in the run-up to last years elections.. How many politicians were killed in the US before the last presidential election?

Political violence in Mexico is far worse than in the US. I was under the impression you lived there. Surely you can't be unaware of this?

harmonicamoon 09-16-2019 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enalzi (Post 21863822)
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but Trump has certainly made appearances out in public without anyone firing a shot or exploding a bomb.

Very happy to hear this. Thank you.

harmonicamoon 09-16-2019 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colibri (Post 21864050)
You've got be kidding. More than 100 Mexican politicians were killed in the run-up to last years elections.. How many politicians were killed in the US before the last presidential election?

Political violence in Mexico is far worse than in the US. I was under the impression you lived there. Surely you can't be unaware of this?

Thank you for the reply.

I guess the US headlines of all the lunies killing people have tainted my perception of life there.

Telemark 09-16-2019 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harmonicamoon (Post 21864071)
Thank you for the reply.

I guess the US headlines of all the lunies killing people have tainted my perception of life there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

Mexico has 24.8 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants, the US has 5.3 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants. It's possible that headlines are not reality.

tomndebb 09-16-2019 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harmonicamoon (Post 21863795)
Last night President López Obrador gave the traditional shout "Viva Mexico". This happened in the Zocalo in Mexico City. In front of maybe hundreds of thousands of spectators. And not one person made an attempt on his life. Maybe because arms are not readily available here. Maybe because Obrador is popular here. But there was not one lunatic who fired a shot or exploded a bomb.

Could this have happened in the USA, with Donald Trump speaking? Obviously that many people couldn't have passed through a metal detector. Regardless if you agree or disagree with Trump, isn't it likely that there would be at least one lunatic that would want to become famous and make an attempt on his life?

Trump has been holding re-election campaign rallies before thousands of people more than once a month since the month he was inaugurated and no one has attempted to assassinate him at any of those rallies. (And he always says something similar to "viva Mexico" except pointed toward the U.S.A.)

I am not sure what prompted your question.


(I also do not support any effort to remove Trump extra-judicially, turning him into a "martyr" to those people who support him.)

Alessan 09-16-2019 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harmonicamoon (Post 21864071)
Thank you for the reply.

I guess the US headlines of all the lunies killing people have tainted my perception of life there.

No offence, but they've also seemed to have tainted your perception of life in your own country.

DinoR 09-16-2019 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harmonicamoon (Post 21863795)
Maybe because arms are not readily available here. Maybe because Obrador is popular here.

Colibri and Telemark hit on some key points with respect to intentional homicides in general and political violence specifically. This deserves some attention, too.

Legal guns are much more controlled. Arms are easily and readily accessible to the cartels that have turned the Mexican border states and certain other key areas into violent quagmires with weak rule of law.

Some of what they get is just off the shelf and smuggled in from America pistols and semiautomatic rifles. When you already have significant smuggling routes across the US-Mexican border there's less reason to spend black market prices to smuggle in the basics. Make no mistake though, because of their smuggling routes in from the rest of the world arms way beyond anything legal are easy for the cartels to get. They get automatic weapons, grenade launchers, rocket launchers, and explosives. Along with pretty advanced IEDs (Improvised Explosive Devices) produced locally they also have gotten their hands on military produced landmines and things like the M18A1 Claymore command detonated directional mine. They have gotten there hands on things like heavy machineguns that can penetrate light armored vehicles and light/medium mortars to provide indirect fire support. There's even been the seizure of a MANPAD (MAN Portable Air Defense) missile. For all that the rhetoric about "weapons of war" in the US gun control debate, Mexican cartels really do supply their forces like light infantry formations maintained by many nations.

You may face strict limits on buying a gun. The cartels don't. They are trained and equipped to directly fight Mexican military units trying to take back control of the country. They a proven ability to defeat small Mexican military units in close combat when they choose to. They mostly choose not to. It's a business decision for them. They are looking at return on investment for the costs of combat operations. They also have to worry about a competing cartels taking advantage if they take heavy losses.

Don't mistake that choice on their part for inability or a lack of access to arms. It's not. Parts of your country really are Iraq, during the US counterinsurgency, levels of bad for the security situation. If those cartels get pissed enough at Obrador, they can bring levels and types of force to bear that the US Secret Service doesn't have to deal with.

Balthisar 09-17-2019 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alessan (Post 21864570)
No offence, but they've also seemed to have tainted your perception of life in your own country.

OP isn't Mexican, otherwise he or she wouldn't be referring to AMLO as "Obrador."

harmonicamoon 09-17-2019 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balthisar (Post 21865344)
OP isn't Mexican, otherwise he or she wouldn't be referring to AMLO as "Obrador."

100% Méxicano. Gracias.

bobot 09-17-2019 12:14 PM

I've never been to a Trump rally, but I'd bet that every attendee does pass through security measures.

Balthisar 09-17-2019 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harmonicamoon (Post 21865681)
100% Méxicano. Gracias.

Why are you using his name wrong, then?

harmonicamoon 09-17-2019 12:47 PM

Thought it would be easier for Americans to identify.

Balthisar 09-17-2019 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harmonicamoon (Post 21865898)
Thought it would be easier for Americans to identify.

Most of us, at least on this forum, know how Spanish names work. And many of us know "AMLO" or "El Peje" in reference to this particular individual, uh, person.

CBEscapee 10-14-2019 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balthisar (Post 21866661)
Most of us, at least on this forum, know how Spanish names work. And many of us know "AMLO" or "El Peje" in reference to this particular individual, uh, person.

AMLO can also be referred to by his maternal last name, Obrador, here in México.

There are other things posted in other threads by harmonicamoon that lead me to believe he is not mexican. But calling AMLO by his maternal last name isn't one.

CBEscapee 10-14-2019 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBEscapee (Post 21915857)
AMLO can also be referred to by his maternal last name, Obrador, here in México.

There are other things posted in other threads by harmonicamoon that lead me to believe he is not mexican. But calling AMLO by his maternal last name isn't one.

For some reason my edit wasn't posted. I just wanted to point out that in this thread alone his misspelled mexicano.

Inigo Montoya 10-14-2019 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telemark (Post 21864101)
It's possible that headlines are not reality.

Dare I say...fake news?

As for the OP: I think Americans are better tempered than you realize. For many, no harm is wished upon the big Creamcicle (orange white supremacist). For others it's a matter of, "That miserable life is not equal to my own, no way in hell would I wreck mine to end his." There's "I refuse to give his followers a martyr." And the ever popular, "That's not how democracy works!" There are a few attention whores out there, but they prefer to shoot things like students or party-goers because people care if those sorts of folks get hurt. Blow Trump away and you'll get, "Aw gee, now we gotta endure President Pence." (There's just no pleasing some people)


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