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-   -   "1 Student Killed, 7 Injured In Colorado School Shooting" (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=875205)

ThelmaLou 05-07-2019 08:43 PM

"1 Student Killed, 7 Injured In Colorado School Shooting"
 
1 Student Killed, 7 Injured In Colorado School Shooting
Quote:

Officials say one student is dead and seven students were injured in a shooting at a public charter school in Highlands Ranch, Colo., a suburb south of Denver.

In a tweet, the Douglas County Sheriff's Office said the deceased was an 18-year-old student at the STEM School.

"It is with extreme sadness that we can confirm that 1 student at the STEM School was killed in today's #stemshooting incident. The immediate family has been notified. Douglas County Coroner Jill Romann (who) has not officially identified the student is stating it's an 18 year old male," the tweet said.

No information was available about the seven other victims.

Two suspects are currently in custody. Douglas County Sheriff Tony Spurlock said one suspect is an adult male and the other is a juvenile male. Both are students at the STEM School. Spurlock said their names are being withheld pending further investigation. The suspects were not previously known to local law enforcement.

"This is a terrible event. This is something that no one wants to have happen in their community," Spurlock said in a press conference late Tuesday afternoon. "Two individuals walked into the STEM school, got deep inside the school and engaged students in two separate locations."

One student has been killed and seven injured in a school shooting at STEM School Highlands Ranch in Colorado.
John Leyba/Denver Post via Getty Images

"We do have eight students in area hospitals right now. Several of them are in critical condition," he added.

All of the victims are 15 years and older.
....
How long has it been since the last school shooting? Six days ago in Charlotte? :(

manson1972 05-07-2019 08:45 PM

Nothing can be done about it.

Beckdawrek 05-07-2019 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manson1972 (Post 21630443)
Nothing can be done about it.

I don't like being defeatist, but I'm beginning to agree with that statement.:(

manson1972 05-07-2019 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beckdawrek (Post 21630464)
I don't like being defeatist, but I'm beginning to agree with that statement.:(

Well, you are clearly not sending enough thoughts and prayers their way.

MoodIndigo1 05-07-2019 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manson1972 (Post 21630488)
Well, you are clearly not sending enough thoughts and prayers their way.

I'm sure that the NRA and the POTUS are sending enough prayers for the rest of us.

Locrian 05-07-2019 09:13 PM

Bullshit. We can ban handguns if we really wanted to. We won't, but we can. It's gotten beyond bizarre that this news is not surprising.

manson1972 05-07-2019 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locrian (Post 21630496)
Bullshit. We can ban handguns if we really wanted to. We won't, but we can. It's gotten beyond bizarre that this news is not surprising.

That won't work. We have to arm every teacher and every student. Just like they do in every other country that doesn't have school shootings on a regular basis.

Grestarian 05-08-2019 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manson1972 (Post 21630443)
Nothing can be done about it.

Lot's of things CAN....

Nothing WILL, because our politicians lack the WILL


--G!
"...for the love of money is the root of all evil."

Atlas Shrugged was supposed to be a warning, not a role-model.

Inigo Montoya 05-08-2019 06:54 PM

This is pretty much in my neighborhood, one of the Redder areas of otherwise deep Blue Denver Metro. Douglas County also lost a deputy a couple New Years Days ago. And of course there was Columbine, which was Jefferson County but Littleton is in Jefferson as well as Douglas county. Seems like there was some other shoot em up out this way. Aurora is to the north east of here--that's just crazy town. You want to get plugged up close and personal with a handgun in a deal gone bad, then you want Aurora.

I seem to recall from my Sunday School days you pray for the strength to endure, not for protection. After some thoughts, I guess the reality is praying for the strength to endure the heartbreak of this kind of crap is the best anyone can hope for. Sucks. I've got one senior graduated early this year, and another set to walk in a couple weeks. Then the schools are someone else's problem.

JackieLikesVariety 05-09-2019 06:51 PM

there is a lot to be sad about with this story but the saddest part might be how it really isn't news. not like if it had happened years ago, anyway. it's just the way things are now. :(

ThelmaLou 05-09-2019 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackieLikesVariety (Post 21634199)
there is a lot to be sad about with this story but the saddest part might be how it really isn't news. not like if it had happened years ago, anyway. it's just the way things are now. :(

In our local newspaper, it wasn't even on the front page. :(

nightshadea 05-09-2019 07:15 PM

a couple of years ago I made a thread about how eventually wed see these things like the middle east/Israel sees bombings.... just a part of life that might get page 6 or 5 minutes on the tv news ...


Sadly its come to pass .....

Magiver 05-09-2019 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locrian (Post 21630496)
Bullshit. We can ban handguns if we really wanted to. We won't, but we can. It's gotten beyond bizarre that this news is not surprising.

OK, for arguments sake, we ban all guns everywhere. Every single gun is now gone.

How does that prevent a student from killing another?

Slow Moving Vehicle 05-09-2019 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver (Post 21634302)
OK, for arguments sake, we ban all guns everywhere. Every single gun is now gone.

How does that prevent a student from killing another?

It doesnít. But it makes it a lot harder to achieve.

Isamu 05-09-2019 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver (Post 21634302)
OK, for arguments sake, we ban all guns everywhere. Every single gun is now gone.

How does that prevent a student from killing another?

Through magic. Or that would be how it would appear to someone like you.

wolfpup 05-09-2019 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver (Post 21634302)
OK, for arguments sake, we ban all guns everywhere. Every single gun is now gone.

How does that prevent a student from killing another?

How do other countries prevent it?

Sure, they can't prevent it totally, but in the US there have been 15 school shootings in the first 19 weeks of the year. This is unprecedented in any other country in the world. And it only represents one particular aspect of the gun violence crisis.

Isamu 05-10-2019 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver (Post 21634302)
OK, for arguments sake, we ban all guns everywhere. Every single gun is now gone.

How does that prevent a student from killing another?

Some people, not everyone, but a significant number of people feel powerful with a firearm in their hand. They like that feeling of power. A tactical knife or something like that can give a similar feeling of power but to a much much lesser degree.

But, in real life, without the gun in their hand, the cold hard truth might be that they are not actually so cool, powerful and almighty. In fact, they may be thought of by their classmates as losers.

Why do the people at school make them feel like losers when they are actually so cool and powerful??? A big question.

Add hormones, bitchiness, bullying, and breaking points. Then add bullets.

engineer_comp_geek 05-10-2019 08:29 AM

Moderator Action

Since this thread has been hijacked by the broader gun control issue, which was probably inevitable given the topic, let's move this to Great Debates (from MPSIMS).

Inigo Montoya 05-10-2019 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfpup (Post 21634428)
How do other countries prevent it?

I don't get out much, so this is a genuine question. Do other countries place as much emphasis as we do on the importance of self as opposed to community? Because, yes, guns make it real easy to get up to shenanigans, but what I want to know is what makes people want to do this stuff in the first place? What sorts of people do this? And what are they needing from the rest of us that they're not getting?

iiandyiiii 05-10-2019 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver (Post 21634302)
OK, for arguments sake, we ban all guns everywhere. Every single gun is now gone.

How does that prevent a student from killing another?

Killing people without a gun is harder than killing people with a gun. Killing multiple people is even harder. And certain guns are more effective at killing in different circumstances. That's one of the reasons why so many gun-owners want them for self-defense -- it's easier to kill a potential murderer/rapist with a gun than without one.

Do you dispute any of this? If not, then what's your point?

QuickSilver 05-10-2019 08:39 AM

At a minimum, other civilized societies don't glorify gun ownership, don't put it on equal footing with other personal rights and freedoms, and don't canonize it as an inviolate part of their civil/constitutional law.

Inigo Montoya 05-10-2019 08:42 AM

Fair enough. With the imminent demise of the NRA it will be interesting to see how/whether our media starts treating the things any differently.

shunpiker 05-10-2019 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfpup (Post 21634428)
How do other countries prevent it?[...]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya (Post 21634931)
I don't get out much, so this is a genuine question. Do other countries place as much emphasis as we do on the importance of self as opposed to community? Because, yes, guns make it real easy to get up to shenanigans, but what I want to know is what makes people want to do this stuff in the first place? What sorts of people do this? And what are they needing from the rest of us that they're not getting?

The USA is messed-up because we highlight and celebrate violence, narcissism, and a quick (my words) "fuck you", more than we value any sense of community or civility. We love shoot-em-up movies, shoot-em-up TV shows, shoot-em-up reality shows, etc. We fucking love watching folks putting holes in bitches and/or the aftermath of solving the criminal case(s) surrounding it. Itís easily monitized entertainmentÖ never mind that itís obscene and quite misanthropic.

QuickSilver 05-10-2019 09:05 AM

More important than the media, I'm wondering if our elected officials will start acting any differently. Is Mitch going to miraculously grow a conscience and put the background check bill on the floor to a vote, finally?

Inigo Montoya 05-10-2019 09:09 AM

No, Mitch et. al won't change, but their campaign funds will be a little tighter. Once we get oil n gas dealt with we'll have a chance of getting better sorts of whores elected.

QuickSilver 05-10-2019 09:26 AM

Gun control, campaign finance reform, legalized pot, universal healthcare and education, better whores for congress.... wait, are you considering running in 2020?

Shodan 05-10-2019 09:33 AM

Now that we are in GD, let's discuss the inappropriate politicization of school shootings.

At least they apologized for it -
Quote:

"We are deeply sorry any part of this vigil did not provide the support, caring and sense of community we sought to foster and facilitate and which we know is so crucial to communities who suffer the trauma of gun violence," the statement said.
Regards,
Shodan

Northern Piper 05-10-2019 09:50 AM

[QUOTE=QuickSilver;21634944]At a minimum, other civilized societies don't glorify gun ownership, don't put it on equal footing with other personal rights and freedoms, and don't canonize it as an inviolate part of their civil/constitutional law./QUOTE]


This. Guns in the United States are a constitutional good thing. They're on par with freedom of speech, freedom of religion, due process and equality.

No other country elevates gun ownership as a prized constitutional value in the same way.

That constitutional value inevitably influences the political and public discussion in the US in a way that is not found in other countries.

Cheesesteak 05-10-2019 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver (Post 21634302)
OK, for arguments sake, we ban all guns everywhere. Every single gun is now gone.

How does that prevent a student from killing another?

Warning: Musing ahead.

I used to watch Kids in the Hall when it was on TV, and one of their regular bits was the Head Crusher. Just a weird dude who would hide in bushes and, using a trick of perspective, "crush" people's heads by pinching his fingers.

It occurred to me, at some random point, how frightening it would be for this creepy dude to actually have the superpower of crushing people's heads with his little trick. He's there behind a bush saying "I'm crushing your head!" and people on the sidewalk are dropping dead.

It then occurred to me, WTF is the difference between this dude's "superpower" of killing a person with a pinch of his finger, and just some asshole with a gun?

Back to Magiver, how does it prevent one student from killing another? It takes away their superpowers. They can no longer kill a person with the twitch of a finger, they have to work at it. Killing a person when you don't have a gun is surprisingly difficult. With a gun, literally anyone who can operate a trigger can kill the most badass commando on the planet in the blink of an eye.

QuickSilver 05-10-2019 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shodan (Post 21635037)
Now that we are in GD, let's discuss the inappropriate politicization of school shootings.

At least they apologized for it -

Regards,
Shodan

I am in absolute agreement with you. These people deserved a little private time to grieve before politics and advocacy groups got involved.

As an aside, how much time for private grief and consolation do you feel is appropriate to give to gun rights advocates after such incidents? Just a ballpark figure.

LAZombie 05-10-2019 10:21 AM

Guns are power.

Democrats and liberals want to take power from the masses and hand it over to the elite who they believe know best. They rejoice every time there is school shooting because it's an opportunity to seize power and affirm their self perceived moral and intellectual superiority.

Inigo Montoya 05-10-2019 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAZombie (Post 21635158)
Guns are power.

Democrats and liberals want to take power from the masses and hand it over to the elite who they believe know best. They rejoice every time there is school shooting because it's an opportunity to seize power and affirm their self perceived moral and intellectual superiority.

Damn, wrong forum. Gun Control is not a liberal/conservative thing. Nice try though. Go back to Russia.

Cheesesteak 05-10-2019 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAZombie (Post 21635158)
They rejoice every time there is school shooting because it's an opportunity to seize power and affirm their self perceived moral and intellectual superiority.

Wow, it's like you're inside my brain.

QuickSilver 05-10-2019 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAZombie (Post 21635158)
Guns are power.

Democrats and liberals want to take power from the masses and hand it over to the elite who they believe know best. They rejoice every time there is school shooting because it's an opportunity to seize power and affirm their self perceived moral and intellectual superiority.

But of course you know that moral and intellectual superiority lies at the operating end of a gun. As demonstrated in these types of... what would you call them... expressions of rights and freedom?

Bruce Wayne 05-10-2019 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou (Post 21634222)
In our local newspaper, it wasn't even on the front page. :(

I donít think thatís a bad thing. The sensational media coverage of school shootings were one of the reasons they became so common. Every malcontent knew he had his forum and he knew how society would react.

Smitty 05-10-2019 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfpup (Post 21634428)
How do other countries prevent it?

Sure, they can't prevent it totally, but in the US there have been 15 school shootings in the first 19 weeks of the year. This is unprecedented in any other country in the world. And it only represents one particular aspect of the gun violence crisis.

And a read of this shows that only 3 of these are what most people mean when they say "school shootings". This list includes a kid on a bus getting hit with a stray bullet from a drive by shooting, a drug deal gone wrong on school property, and a kid nicked by a pellet gun. None of these are what people think of as a "school shooting".

If you can't even be honest about the problem, why should anyone listen to your solution?

Kearsen1 05-10-2019 02:24 PM

nm

Shodan 05-10-2019 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuickSilver (Post 21635106)
I am in absolute agreement with you. These people deserved a little private time to grieve before politics and advocacy groups got involved.

As an aside, how much time for private grief and consolation do you feel is appropriate to give to gun rights advocates after such incidents? Just a ballpark figure.

I don't think it is so much how much time is elapsed, as the venue. Turning a vigil into a rally is kind of crass.

Back when Paul Wellstone, the Senator from Minnesota, was killed in a plane crash, a public occasion to memorialize him turned into a full-throated political rally. The governor at the time, Jesse Ventura, who is/was neither Democrat nor Republican, mentioned that it was in poor taste. Not that he was renowned for his tact and discretion, but even he knew that there is not only a time but a place for such things.

Inviting students to a vigil, and then springing a political rally on them to use them for an agenda, is neither the time nor the place. As I said, the Brady Campaign at least had the grace to apologize.

Regards,
Shodan

Inigo Montoya 05-10-2019 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shodan (Post 21635794)
I don't think it is so much how much time is elapsed, as the venue. Turning a vigil into a rally is kind of crass.

Generally true. But when a problem gets big enough, and I think with attacks on schools we've gotten to that point, the elephant at the vigil is everyone is shocked (because it's still shocking, thankfully) but nobody is truly surprised anymore. We all know the next one is already in the mail, we just don't know where it's been sent.

So with that, it can be reasonably argued NOT turning a vigil into a rally to prevent more vigils is the shameful course. The dead kids, they're not victims anymore. They're casualties in a one-sided war.

Urbanredneck 05-10-2019 03:30 PM

I would like to know why the kids get so violent and enraged that they would go out and shoot each other in school in the first place. I mean HS doesnt last forever. Even the worse aholes in school will be gone someday. Heck the 2 kids who did Columbine were seniors and it was just a few weeks before graduation.


Yeah back when I was in HS I hated some people and if I saw them today I'd probably do something bad but never go so far as to kill anyone or do something that would jeopardize my future.


And the shooters know damn well they will either die doing this or go to prison for life. What would make a person do something so stupid?

Bryan Ekers 05-10-2019 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne (Post 21635316)
I donít think thatís a bad thing. The sensational media coverage of school shootings were one of the reasons they became so common. Every malcontent knew he had his forum and he knew how society would react.

Well, good news, soon they'll become so commonplace that nobody will do them.

scr4 05-10-2019 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya (Post 21634931)
I don't get out much, so this is a genuine question. Do other countries place as much emphasis as we do on the importance of self as opposed to community?

It doesn't seem to matter, since violence happens in every country. *Shootings* are much more rare in other countries though.

Magiver 05-10-2019 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesesteak (Post 21635077)

Back to Magiver, how does it prevent one student from killing another? It takes away their superpowers. They can no longer kill a person with the twitch of a finger, they have to work at it. Killing a person when you don't have a gun is surprisingly difficult. With a gun, literally anyone who can operate a trigger can kill the most badass commando on the planet in the blink of an eye.

OK, you've taken away the superpower to kill with a twitch of a finger.

How does the student get to school?

iiandyiiii 05-10-2019 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver (Post 21635936)
OK, you've taken away the superpower to kill with a twitch of a finger.

How does the student get to school?

Are you trying to make a point that cars can be deadly? If so, then we don't need guns. Guns serve no purpose, apparently, since it's so easy to kill!

Or maybe we can talk like adults, and recognize that guns really do make it easier to kill (especially kill specific targets!), and different kinds of guns can be more or less effective in different circumstances. Which doesn't necessarily mean we should ban them, but at least we can recognize that certain tools (like guns) are better at certain things (like killing the people in a school that a deranged person might hate), and it's reasonable to talk about the availability of such deadly tools.

Czarcasm 05-10-2019 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver (Post 21635936)
OK, you've taken away the superpower to kill with a twitch of a finger.

How does the student get to school?

Walk, take the bus, take a cab, carpool, bike, skateboard...wait! Of course! I bet you are going to talk about the infamous Missoula Montana Mazda Massacre, where the lone student driver drove from room to room to room, running over 6 teachers and 17 students before being stopped by a spike strip in the third floor teacher's lounge.

Lamoral 05-10-2019 04:58 PM

Well, that's the thing - of course you can't use a car to go from room to room and kill a bunch of people. (You can drive it into a crowd, though, which we have seen numerous times recently.) Yeah, cars account for only the tiniest percentage of malicious homicide, as compared to firearms. But they account for more deaths.

Are deaths from shootings a greater hardship on society than death from cars? It's not a rhetorical question, I actually don't know the answer. Maybe they generate more fear because they garner coverage in the media. But the widows and orphans are still widows and orphans.

We could probably cut driving deaths in half by requiring all drivers to use a manual car unless physically unable to do so. Having to control a clutch and a shifter makes it a hell of a lot less likely to be distracted on your phone, or to zone out and lose control. But "we've decided" that this is unfeasible, just like "we've decided" that banning guns is unfeasible.

Magiver 05-10-2019 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czarcasm (Post 21635953)
Walk, take the bus, take a cab, carpool, bike, skateboard...wait! Of course! I bet you are going to talk about the infamous Missoula Montana Mazda Massacre, where the lone student driver drove from room to room to room, running over 6 teachers and 17 students before being stopped by a spike strip in the third floor teacher's lounge.

No, I think the topic is more serious than your sarcasm indicates. I was going to point out that in a gun free city such as London people still murder each other. You forgot about the incident where 8 people were killed by being run over or stabbed.

The change in methodology didn't alter the intent or the outcome of the London attack. What is relevant to point out is the tool that ended the attack was a gun.

iiandyiiii 05-10-2019 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver (Post 21636054)
No, I think the topic is more serious than your sarcasm indicates. I was going to point out that in a gun free city such as London people still murder each other. You forgot about the incident where 8 people were killed by being run over or stabbed.

The change in methodology didn't alter the intent or the outcome of the London attack. What is relevant to point out is the tool that ended the attack was a gun.

So guns can be especially effective a killing people?

Czarcasm 05-10-2019 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver (Post 21636054)
No, I think the topic is more serious than your sarcasm indicates. I was going to point out that in a gun free city such as London people still murder each other. You forgot about the incident where 8 people were killed by being run over or stabbed.

The change in methodology didn't alter the intent or the outcome of the London attack. What is relevant to point out is the tool that ended the attack was a gun.

Compare the murder rate in England to the murder rate in the U.S.:
England-1.22 per 100,000.
United States-5.35 per 100,000.

Magiver 05-10-2019 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii (Post 21636059)
So guns can be especially effective a killing people?

they're especially effective at defending people.


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