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Old 08-21-2016, 09:49 PM
septimus septimus is offline
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 15,581
Did someone mention conspiracy theories? Let me help out.

The County of Vermandois was one of the last possessions of the Carolingian dynasty; it passed father-to-so as follows:
Charlemagne --> Pepin IV --> Pepin V --> Herbert I --> Herbert II --> Albert I --> Herbert III --> Eudes I --> Herbert IV --> Eudes II the Insane
Vermandois was taken away from Eudes II (presumably because he was insane) and given to his sister, wife of a Capet. The insane man (Googlers: Was there some particular psychosis diagnosed?) ended up with Saint-Simon as a consolation prize.

The present-day family of Rouvroy-Saint Simon claims descent from Eudes. Since little is know about the ancestry of the 17th-century Rouvroy family, nor about the descendants of 11th-century Eudes II de Vermandois, some genealogists are suspicious that there may a flaw in the 500 years of made-up(?) names filling the gap. AFAIK the Rouvroy-Saint Simon family has never pressed any claim for the Frankish Empire.

On only slightly firmer ground is the St.Clair of Rosslyn family, made famous in a Dan Brown book/movie. Their pedigree gets fuzzy by the 14th century, but they are sometimes reckoned as agnatic descendants of Eticho (legendary common ancestor of the Houses of Hapsburg and Lorraine); or of William the Conqueror; or of Charles Martel's half-brother; or even of Clovis the Great. As you can see with a click, even Wikipedia knows little about Martel's half-brother, beyond that he had a son named Nibelung. (But if this family is connected to the mythical(?) Kings of the Nibelunglenlied, their claim to parts of France may precede that of the Merovingians. )