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Old 05-10-2019, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by clairobscur View Post
Not the same thing. Same-sex marriage doesn't impact people who aren't involved in it.
Neither does the existence of trans people.

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Recognizing transwomen as women in all circumstances impact, or at least is alleged to impact cis women wrt to issues that are normally considered legitimate concerns for them, hence harm the many for the exclusive benefit of the few.
Same sex marriage was "alleged" to impact other people, and it didn't. Recognizing the existence of trans people does not impact others any more than SSM.

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It is currently very widely accepted that women have a right not to share their locker rooms with men, regardless of what you think of it, so there's a need to define who qualifies as either. Defining "I don't want men parading naked in my locker room" as meaning "I don't want people with a dick parading naked in my locker room" or rejecting the idea that someone is allowed to enter the locker room just because he says he should, or saying that 99 women shouldn't feel distressed so that 1 will feel good aren't some absurd and outrageous stances.
People are free to go into, and leave, any locker rooms they want. They can find private locker rooms if that's what they prefer. They can change at home. Or they can go into a stall in the locker room. If someone attacks them, or behaves lewdly around them, then that's against the law and can be prosecuted regardless of gender identity.

If someone feels distress, that's a feeling that people sometimes have. I have little doubt that some white people felt distressed when they first had to share bathrooms and locker rooms with black people. Some probably still do. That's part of life -- sometimes you will feel distress. It's not violating anyone's rights. But preventing trans people from using locker rooms would be violating their rights to accommodation and services. Forcing them to use the wrong locker room would help no one -- the other locker room users are just as likely to be anti-trans bigots as the first.

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Especially if you consider that if there's no objective reason to feel distressed because a transwoman is present in a locker room, there's in fact no objective reason to feel distressed because a man is present in a locker room, either. The reason why women feel they should be able to avoid such a situation are cultural and subjective, and I doubt that most would be able to clearly enunciate what the issue is exactly, or would agree with each other if they could. "I don't trust people with a dick to enter a women locker room for genuinely innocent reasons, and I have legitimate reasons to feel this way" would be a position enthusiastically supported by yourself if it didn't impact another category you also support.
If you want to argue against segregated-gender locker rooms and bathrooms, feel free. I don't feel strongly that they need to remain, but others might. As long as they exist, trans people should be allowed to use them just like cis people do.

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Just because you feel that the woman writing the article shouldn't be disturbed if the dick owner exposing his parts self-identify as a woman, and that the risk that a cis man will pretend to self-identify as a woman just so that he'll be able to enter the women locker room is close to inexistant doesn't mean that this woman should feel the same way and analyze the risk the way you do.
Here you go again, deliberately (and hatefully) misgendering. There's no reason at all for it. You're choosing to say this hateful thing, for no reason at all.

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Definitely. But who made you king (or rather mind controller) to decide that this woman should stop feeling disturbed or threatened by the presence of a naked dick owner in her locker room as soon as this person says "I identify as a woman" and to dismiss her concerns that the real reason why this person is there and says so might be to check up undressed underage girls and expose himself without consequences?
Where did you get the impression that I'm king? I'm asserting my opinion. It's okay to assert one's opinion, even if they disagree. It's okay to criticize other opinions.

I believe lewd behavior should be sanctioned and prosecuted, and this has nothing to do with whether trans people should be allowed to use bathrooms and locker rooms.