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Old 05-15-2019, 07:09 AM
Manda JO is offline
Charter Member
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 11,436
Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
Last multipost.

I have no doubt that I have internalized toughness, tenacity, and stoicism as values to aspire to. Thing is that I think I got that from both parents as role models, not just my WW2 era boxer is his youth 1950s stereotype of masculinity father. And I think my daughter gets them messaged by me as values for her as much as my boys have. (Her mom possibly tougher and as tenacious but less on the stoic side. And her toughness and tenacity are part of what makes her such an attractive woman. And why I live in fear!) Whether you think they are good values or harmful ones or fine unless too much and then toxic, they are values and traits that are not male or female.

No, they are not male or female--but men or women are disproportionately pressured to exaggerate a set of traits as a condition of their gender. I lie and said I cried at a funeral because I didn't want to be perceived as unemotional, unempathic--unfemale. And some dude drove to the ER with a knife in his leg because he didn't want to be perceived as "unmanly". I wasn't just worked about looking too stoic; he wasn't just worried about looking too weak; we both strove to live up to what Wollstonecraft called, 300 years ago, our "supposed sexual character". What do you think is meant by "turn in your man card" or "quit acting like a girl"? It's saying "this behavior is unbecoming to a man, if you display it, you lose an essential part of your identity".