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Old 05-11-2019, 03:08 PM
RingsOfPylon is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
Giving transwomen access to women's spaces is not "accomodation". It's not "compromise". D'y'know why? Because trans women, and I will say this as often as I need to, are women.
I disagree. I think they are people with dysphoria, which is not the same thing. That said, they should do whatever they need in order to tame and control the misery that comes along with dysphoria. The same applies to other dysphorias. Do what you need to be at peace with yourself.

You're going to have to clear a lot more hurdles to convince me that transwomen are women and that transmen are men. It sounds woo-y.

I have seen no evidence for those assertions other than self-reporting by those who suffer from dysphoria. I think they believe it and desperately want it to be so, but I'm not convinced that is the reality. If something comes up to change my mind, I'm open to reason. So far, it's pretty unconvincing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
I have plenty of respect for women. I have zero respect for bigoted fucksticks like the folks at WoLF, who ally themselves with the religious right wing to attack other women. I will disdain people who misgender transwomen or treat them like an invading force until the goddamn cows come home.

I suspect you want to think you have respect for women.

There are people who like causes but don't necessarily like people. At least, not enough to keep from discarding them when they no longer serve a purpose.

I don't have any love of WoLF either, but probably for reasons that differ from yours. I think their entire narrative is just wrong.

See how people with disparate beliefs can agree on something? We are pretty far apart on the reasons, but we both agree that WoLF is not a force for good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
Fuck that noise. Seriously, have you ever met a transwoman? Or spoken to even one? Do you know the kind of shit they go through in transitioning? Do you know how unpleasant HRT can be?
This is a pompous and patronizing load of crap. I know all about hormones. You can come back and lecture me after you've been through 30 years of dysmenorrhea and PMS, a number of pregnancies, and peri-menopause. Until then, I'll stack my hormonal bona fides up against anyone else's.

Well, it sucks, but we have to live with what we have.

I've only known 2 transwomen. Three, if you count the DNA relative I've been corresponding with, but I don't know her well enough to say much about her. It's a small sample size, but I find they think differently than your standard issue ciswoman.

One was an over-the-top drag style, not your typical woman. I've known her for years and she has always been a dramatic person, so I guess going the drag route is not a surprise.

I was helping one in particular, at work, because the way the entire issue was handled at work - by both the woman herself and the management - was just so bad that I wanted to help make things a bit smoother.

Her fault in this was that she didn't build alliances of any sort; never talked to people in the office, never tried to be friendly with others before her official transition. This is odd because she had a seemingly kind demeanor and her job was answering customer calls (go figure), but her breaks consisted of going away from everyone else and not even trying to participate in casual chat or friendly banter. She had worked there for years and I never heard her talk until she was a captive audience in the restroom. :-)

You've got to recruit allies, and you start doing that by being friendly and at least pretending to want to engage with others. For most women, this is second nature and they can at least put up a facade of feigning camaraderie. People who feel friendly towards you are probably a bit more charitable when you drop a bomb on them.

The management part was a nightmare. On a Friday, shortly before we left for the weekend, we were told that, on Monday, Hisname is now Hername and, oh by the way, she will start using the women's restroom. Okaaaaaay. Anyone see that coming? Needless to say, a lot of people were not terribly receptive to this bomb dropping.

I felt a bit resentful at first, but I also felt bad for her. Above all else, I'm a mom and tend to mother people who are at a disadvantage. Even though she had never been friendly before, I tried to exchange niceties and engage her in conversation. I thought maybe, if someone stepped up and could start the social integration, it could make things better for everyone involved.

On the other hand, she didn't seem particularly interested in finding friendliness before, so maybe it wouldn't have worked out.

We didn't get to try that out because she decided to make a clean break and go somewhere else. I take some comfort in being kind and devising a plan that might have made things better. That's more than anyone else seemed to do.

The best part is that we have a very diverse office, so it's not like everyone is white and straight. We run the whole gamut of sizes, shapes, colors, preferences, etc. Everyone is also very friendly with each other, so it's hard to grok why someone would completely avoid being friendly. There seems to be something for everyone in our office.

I'm not a complete monster and it's hard to completely alienate me, but you have a good head start.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
Meanwhile, transwomen pose no real threat to women in women-only spaces. (Unless you count "making bigots uncomfortable" as a threat.)
Does gender dysphoria come preloaded with a saintly glow? There is no reason to think their motives are somehow purer or more moral than the motives of other people.

As a woman, and a fairly small woman, after I was assaulted when alone in a mixed restroom (robbery by an addict, not rape - I don't know whether to be thankful or not), it has served me well to maintain a healthy skepticism. It was a hard lesson to learn, but it was learned. I can't afford to make too many mistakes.

In the meantime, transwomen with dicks are way less than 1% of the population, while the vast majority of penis-owning people tend to be dicks or worse. Let's see - if we play the odds, the chances are that the person with the penis is a dick or worse. When in doubt, it's best to stay away from them.