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Old 05-11-2019, 03:59 PM
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iiandyiiii is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur View Post
This still only address the issue of safety, though. And it's not the only reason, not even the main reason, why people want gender-segregated locker rooms. Most women don't want men around there, period (even if it were absolutely guaranteed that they wouldn't be victimized in any way), and by consequence neither someone who they can't tell the gender of, or simply who looks like a man or even more simply who has man's part, and that regardless of what this person claims to be and even regardless of whether or not this claim is truthful.

Would you say that this preference is a completely illegitimate desire? Or simply that it's a less important desire than that of a preop transwoman to access women locker rooms?
It doesn't matter to me whether it's legitimate or not -- it doesn't trump the right of trans people to be treated with decency and respect.

Quote:
If it's entirely based on pragmatic reasons, then fine, although of course your assessment of the relative risks can be disputed (and I would also point out that there's always the option of using neither and changing at home, something you pointed at wrt ciswomen unhappy about the presence of transwomen).

But I'm still wondering if you would stop supporting the right of transwomen to use women locker rooms if if was shown to you that you were wrong and that it causes problems. For instance, the "protected class" statute is passed, and there's in fact a number of cases of lecherous or exhibitionist men entering women locker rooms for sexual gratification, highschoolers entering the girls' room as a prank, etc...

Also, you're talking about "real transwomen". How does the random Joe establish that someone entering a locker room, enlisting for a competition, claiming a scholarship, etc... is a real transwoman?
If you have strong evidence that treating trans people with decency and respect puts people at risk, feel free to present it. But without it, I'll treat it the same way I'll treat uncited claims that being respectful to black people puts white people at risk.