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Old 06-11-2018, 12:15 AM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is online now
2018 Midterm Prediction Winner
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 20,712
Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
If Bernie were president, we would not have Gorsuch, or Pruitt or DeVos or Cow-Pai, and most of the rest of the world would have at least a half a shred of respect left for the US. And he probably would have vetoed that ridiculous tax bill. So, a little less destruction would have been better than what we have.
These are all valid points. Judges wouldn't be getting confirmed, the tax bill never would've gotten passed, the cabinet would be full of professionals, and the world would respect us more.

All valid. However I wonder if Trump is worth the possibility that he will move society away from his white nationalist agenda. Had Bernie or Hillary won, the GOP would pick up even more seats on the state and federal level, resulting in even more right wing legislation down the road. But who knows maybe Trump just makes white nationalism more socially acceptable w/o harming the GOP. That is also a realistic outcome of his reign, the GOP is just as powerful as it always was but now it is more shamelessly white nationalist and authoritarian.

Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
The Democratic Party put us there. What have they done for this country this century? And don't say the ACA, they fought Obama tooth and nail on that one, and he had to win the primaries with grass roots populism. Don't forget Hillary started the 'Obama is a Muslim' crap that led to Birtherism. They keep talking big and delivering nothing because they're practicing machine politics. The political party system is a blight on this country and now they're making it worse. Neither the Democrats or the Republicans can win an election with just their members anymore, Trump has sent a lot of Republicans to the 'I' column, this is not the way to pick them up.
The ACA was a heritage plan that removed every reform that would've actually reduced medical costs, because reforms that reduce medical costs anger and enrage rich and powerful people. That is partly why Bernie was so popular. Bernie knows single payer enrages the rich and powerful, and he doesn't care.

Hillary didn't start birtherism. Birtherism was started by angry white republicans

Income inequality keeps going up. Our democracy is under assault by domestic and foreign threats. People can't afford health care or education. Unemployment is low but wages aren't going up. And it feels like all the democratic party offers are platitudes while then going on and doing the bidding of the rich and powerful. We need genuine reform.

Granted, things did improve a little under Obama. Tax rates on the rich went up nearly 6 points. The ACA was better than nothing and a good start. But I think the entirety of Obama's 8 years of tax hikes on the rich was wiped out with 1 bill passed by the GOP via budget reconciliation. What does that tell you, it takes Obama 8 years to do what the GOP did in 1?

But for a lot of us, these are our choices.

Mild improvements under the democrats.
Massive declines under the republicans.

People are tired of being asked to vote for 1 step left, or 3 steps to the right as their only options. Yeah, 1 step left is better than 3 steps right, but why can't our side offer 3 steps left too. Where are our FDRs, LBJs, etc who would push us 3 steps left?
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion

Last edited by Wesley Clark; 06-11-2018 at 12:20 AM.