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Old 06-13-2019, 11:03 AM
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WillFarnaby is offline
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Location: Baltimore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
And again, if Zimmerman's intention was to arrest, why did he call the police?
He called the police to come get Martin. Then he pursued Martin so he wouldn’t get away.


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Wouldn't that mean Zimmerman was taking the rather large risk that the police would show up and see him illegally arresting Martin?
For all I know Zimmerman thought he had found a burglar and he would be applauded for nabbing him.

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No, we don't know that. There is nothing in Dee Dee's testimony that establishes this.
Creepy-ass cracker?

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And, if Martin was afraid of Zimmerman, why would he double back, after he and Zimmerman lost sight of each other, and seek Zimmerman out to confront him?
There’s no evidence that Martin sought to confront and beat up Zimmerman. If his doubling back is evidence he was looking for Zimmerman, than why isn’t Zimmerman’s pursuit evidence he was looking to nab Martin?



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Martin attacked Zimmerman - that is, he initiated violence - because Zimmerman had been following him, and also because Zimmerman asked him (according to Dee Dee) what he was doing. Following someone, and asking what they are doing, is neither harm nor the threat of harm. And to repeat, if Martin was afraid of Zimmerman harming him, why did he double back from his father's house and confront Zimmerman?
I don’t know why he doubled back. He may have wished to carry on his conversation with Dee Dee in private instead of in the home.


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Yes, it would be justified. It would be stupid, because punching people with guns in their hand is a bad idea, but legally it would be justified.
If you are within arms reach of someone with a gun out, depending on the scene it may be more advisable to initiate a close confrontation than to run and be shot point blank in the back. But ok.

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But the evidence indicates that Martin did not know that Zimmerman had a gun, because he doubled back and confronted and attacked him. Therefore, it is unlikely that Martin feared harm from Zimmerman, since he could have walked into his own living room. He didn't - he went back and sought Zimmerman out.
He may have noticed the gun once confronted. There is no way to know what Martin knew immediately before the fight.

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Zimmerman spotted Martin acting (in his opinion) suspiciously. Zimmerman then calls the NEN operator and follows Martin. The NEN operator advises Zimmerman that they don't need him to follow Martin. Zimmerman and Martin lose sight of each other, Martin makes it back to his father's house, Zimmerman then tries to find a house number or street name to arrange an exact location to meet up with the police. (You can't see house numbers from the back, which is why Zimmerman went between the houses to look for them)
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It was to get an address. You can't see the street names from the back. The back is where Martin confronted Zimmerman and attacked him.
He wasn’t in the truck in the back. He was already out of the truck and in pursuit of Martin when he claimed he started to look for an address. By this point he had already left the spot he was to meet police and had walked around back. My question was why did he leave the vehicle. The answer can’t be that he got out to look for an address. The best place to look for an address is from a vehicle not by walking around back.

We know that Zimmerman was interested in law enforcement. He had probably daydreamed of catching a bad guy. This also helps us to know what Zimmerman May have been thinking when he got out and pursued Martin because his own reasoning makes no sense.


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Somewhere between 3 and 4. But you have left out a couple of intervening steps, which are

2a) You are a few steps from a place of perfect safety

2b) You do not have any reason to believe he has a gun

And

3a) It is illegal to attack people for asking you questions whether you know they have a gun or not

3b) If, because he followed you and then asked you what you were doing, you knock him down, break his nose, blacken his eyes, and sit on his chest smashing his head against the ground, it is likely to lead eventually to step 4, and he is legally justified (all other things being equal) in doing so.

Regards,
Shodan
Martin attacked Zimmerman between steps 3 and 4. Zimmerman escalated the situation to step 3 at minimum according to his own testimony. Martin may have escalated it to step 3b and 4. At the very least Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter because he behaved in such a reckless way as to endanger life. We can’t have people in society bumbling around escalating conflicts with loaded guns at the ready.

If people want to pursue bad guys, they should learn how to do it. Just like someone who wants to start parasailing. If some newbie kills someone while parasailing, they should be held responsible.

Last edited by WillFarnaby; 06-13-2019 at 11:07 AM.