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Old 08-14-2019, 09:54 AM
Max S. is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Florida, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3 View Post
I do not reject the usefulness of thinking in terms of causality but causality is like the flat earth model... I know it's an oversimplification but it's a highly useful one...

Ultimately though, no, we do not live in a causal universe. It's an illusion.
Is it time that is an illusion, or the existence of a "past" universe? If things aren't as normally understood with some semblence of causality, what is real? Are you saying all of the states of the universe at different time-steps actually exist together? My current definition of free will presupposes the existence of time, so unless you reimpose such a notion or redefine terms, I will have trouble understanding your position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3 View Post
Somewhere between 12 billion and 15 billion years ago both space and time came into being; there was no "before", and there was no prior cause.
There are ad-hoc explanations to be found in theism and deism, or in the alternative there are theories that "before" is the negative or imaginary of "after". There is also the viewpoint that there is ultimately no cause, that the initial state of the universe "just is". But if you do establish a chain by which, given the initial state of the universe, you can determine the state of the universe now, the implication is that the "universal consciousness" has no free will and never had free will. Aside from the initial moment (if that exists), every time you point to a decision or choice that seems to be free will, it can be determined from a previous state of the universe. Therefore the previous state of the universe absolutely constrains the freedom of the current state of the universe to make a decision, such that the universe is only free to "choose" one thing, therefore free will is not found in the current instant. This lack of free will extends back to the initial state of the universe, or if there is no initial state, it extends back forever.

There is another question as to whether consciousness can possibly exist if there is no distinction between self and non-self or the whole and its parts.

~Max