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Old 09-09-2019, 09:04 AM
Steophan is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Nottingham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
The EU has bent over backwards to be fair and reasonable to the UK. It has not, in spite of the accusations of certain bad-faith actors within the UK, been "unreasonable". The UK wanted to leave, and Europe, as it is obligated to do so, allowed it to. Care to outline what the EU should have done, proactively, to "keep the UK", that wouldn't have amounted to privileging a leaving member for leaving, thus allowing for some very unreasonable hostage-esque situations?
The EU should have campaigned in the referendum for a Remain vote, explained why it was important for both the UK and the EU that we remain together, and explained what, exactly, it is that the EU actually does - as very few people, on either side, seem to know that.

It should also have negotiated properly, specifically before Article 50 was triggered, so each side knew what the actual possibilities for compromise were before the time limit started. Basically, they should act like the most important thing, for both the EU as a whole and for the UK - which, don't forget is still an EU member, and its citizens are EU citizens - is to keep the UK in the EU. Instead, they are willing to cause significant harm to themselves rather than actually do anything to try to stop Brexit.

That the UK is causing more harm to itself than the EU to itself doesn't excuse the EU. Its actions will harm all the member states. That's no more acceptable than the Government of the UK harming the country.

Quote:
The examples you offer are extremely small potatoes. The major procedural hurdles involve things like "demanding a new major trade deal within two years" and "not knowing what the hell they want".
The UK Parliament, at least, knows what it wants - a deal with the EU that does not disadvantage the UK at all. The EU wants to punish the UK for leaving, so as to dissuade other states from doing the same. The first of those is obviously impossible, but the second is hugely unethical - almost as much as Johnson forcing us to leave without a deal would be.

As for a trade deal, there could have already been 3 years of negotiation for one had the EU allowed it. They didn't, because they refused to change their bureaucratic procedures to do so.

Yes, this whole thing could have been avoided if the UK had been less stupid. But the EU is refusing to try to minimise the harm done to all parties involved.