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Old 05-11-2019, 12:03 PM
clairobscur is offline
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,885
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Maybe, but limiting access based on gender doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. Transwomen are women. Their gender is "woman". If a woman wants to restrict access based on gender, then they aren't blocking trans people from doing anything.
It has something to do with the discussion. Because if they have a legitimate reason to prevent access to a man, they have a legitimate reason to prevent access to someone indistinguishable from a man. If they have a legitimate reason to want to not be exposed to the sight of a dick, for instance, it doesn't matter how the dick owner self-identify.

Your position seems to variably rest on two different arguments : the first one being that women don't really have any valid reason to be bothered (perv doing perv things are rare, and anyway they'll manage to do them if they really want to, the presence of someone who might or might not be a man is unimportant and not a reasonable concern), the second being that a transwoman being a woman by definition, there never can be a valid reason to prevent her access (say, even if it's demonstrated that a man in a locker room has a 80% chance of committing rape, someone who looks like a man claiming to self-identify as a woman should still be permitted access).

And it's the same with sports. Here too, your arguments seem to rest of those two ideas : transwomen in fact don't have any advantage in sports, and even if they had one, and were winning competitions 100% of the time, they still should be allowed to compete on principle.

And I think that the first position (there's no cause for concern) isn't clearly established (it's at least highly disputed), and the second position (the desire of transwomen to be always recognized as women trumps any desire ciswomen might have, like feeling safe or having a shot at winning a competition) isn't morally sound. And it's in particular this second view that I have a big issue with.
S'en vai la memoria, e tornara pu.

Last edited by clairobscur; 05-11-2019 at 12:07 PM.