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Old 09-13-2019, 02:44 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Denial
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Thanks, EdelweissPirate, for your responses. Iím a firm believer in using full synthetic oil, so its good to know others agree. Iím also quite surprised at how little salesmen know about their own products. Since my Pontiac died last month and Iíve been car shopping, Iíve run into numerous instances (as in, too many to count) where the salesman didnít know anything about the car on their own lot. They have no idea what engine is in the particular model that is sitting right there in front of them, or they didnít know how to lower the rear seats, or they couldnít answer very basic questions about the warranty. (ďSo, what kind of powertrain warranty does this Rav4 have?Ē ďUh, Iíll have to check on that. Letís go back to my office and talk. I can look that up there.Ē Seriously? You sell new Toyotas, all you sell is new Toyotas, and judging by your inventory here on the lot the Rav4 is your most popular model, yet you canít answer a basic question about the warranty? What the fuck?? [of course, this was a deliberate and obvious attempt to get me inside and start talking numbers. It was still a dick move and I suspect he really didnít know anything about the warranty.])

Iíve read FoieGrasIsEvilís AMA car salesman thread and, frankly, Iím still quite apprehensive about the buying process. By and large salesmen are slimy and underhanded and Iíve yet to find one that hasnít tried to sell me something I donít want. Itís very simple (from my point of view, at least): I want this model, in this color, in this configuration. No add-ons with the possible exception of a cargo net and a roof rack, neither which will be part of the sale price. I will return later to the service department and pay for those directly out of pocket. Easy Peasy. Donít try to sell me something else, especially if Iíve made it clear that Iím not interested in anything else. I liken it to walking into a butcherís shop and asking for a nice brisket to put in the smoker for Thanksgiving. Iím not interested in a turkey just because thatís whatís popular with everyone else or a pork shoulder becauseÖ well goshdarnit wouldnít you know it, unfortunately we just don't have that brisket you wanted right now but that pork would do really well in smokerÖ ok then. You donít have what Iím looking for? Iíll go elsewhere.

Kia makes the Soul in the base trim with a manual transmission in black. Thatís what I want, please. If you canít deliver I have no problem driving to Portland or even Seattle and working with someone who will.

(Iím getting ranty here. Obviously this is directed at the future salesman I'll be dealing with, not any poster here, especially not FGIE who seems like a pretty stand-up guy. Iím just dreading that actual purchasing process. Iím considering using the Costco car buying service due to the fact that saving $500 isnít worth a day of haggling and the increase in my BP and anxiety meds the process will cause. And EP I hear what youíre saying about the manual shift mode on the automatic. Iíve actually never driven one, and I should just so I know what Iím dismissing before I actually dismiss it . Regarding the CVT, I have driven a Nissan Rogue with a CVT and I just didnít like them. I canít really put my finger on it, but I think itís the weird lack of control. In a traditional automatic you at least get a ďfeelĒ for each gear. And of course in a stick you get the actual control. A CVT is justÖ go. Or not. Like a riding lawn mower. Just not for me.)

Getting back to the Soul. One thing Iíve been noticing is that, by and large, most modern cars areÖ pretty much the same. Back in the Good Old Days some manufacturers were junk (::cough,cough::British Leyland::cough), or otherwise decent brands had particularly crappy components (like the infamous Chrysler 2.6 V-6 engine). My impression is those days are gone and modern cars are designed to be driven well north of 200K miles without major repairs and then almost always itís electrical components / systems that need looked at. As a result brand loyalty isnít really a thing with younger buyers like it was with my parentís generation (yeah yeah I knowÖ insert lawn joke). Manufactures share parts and platforms so saying ďIím going to buy a ____ because theyíre made in ____ ď isnít exactly rational. For instance, my FIL has long advocated buying American cars only, Fords excepted. He was a mechanic for years, both in the army and then at a private dealership. Heís clearly old-school and believes European cars are crap, Japanese cars are almost as bad, and Korean cars are nothing more than a joke. However, he bought a brand new Chevy Aveo when they were first released because the TV show Motor Week liked it ó even though it was just a rebadged Daewoo. According to him the only cars worth buying are GM and Chrysler. However, his 2011 Dodge Ram has had numerous problems and a couple of recalls and his 9 month old Buick Regal has had to be towed to the dealer for electrical failures at least twice. For the Soul the last three model years have not seen any recalls. This doesn't mean of course that there aren't problems, but it's a point in their favor. I've joined a couple of Soul owner groups on Facebook and will pick their brains as well. Of course, I'll look at CR also.

Is it fair to say that most modern cars, which have become 100% computer / electronics dependent, are pretty much the same (notwithstanding outliers like Teslas)? Are there no more Corvairs or Yugos?