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Old 05-14-2019, 05:06 PM
Delayed Reflex is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
But there are expectations shaping how everyone may acceptably do almost anything.

Some men think men shouldn't cry. Some men think it's okay for men to cry. Some women think men shouldn't cry. Some women think it's okay for men to cry.

Which one of those is "toxic masculinity"? Which ones are something else "toxic"?
I'm still learning this myself, but my understanding is that "Some men think men shouldn't cry" and " Some women think men shouldn't cry" would be the viewpoints that perpetuate "toxic masculinity" - though this particular example is probably on the milder end of the "toxicity spectrum". "Some men think men should defend their honour with violence" and "some women think men should defend their honour with violence" might be further along the scale.

I think both men AND women's expectations as to "what makes a man manly" contribute to the culture of toxic masculinity, and hopefully people recognize this. Women being attracted to, and approving of violent assholes definitely perpetuates toxic masculinity, as does peer pressure from other men. If society is to change the idea that stoicism, domination, self reliance, defending honour, etc. are NOT concepts that epitomize manliness, it's something that people of all genders will have to work on. The thing is, many of these attributes that are seen as virtuous may not necessarily be that toxic in principle (and have some beneficial aspects to them, even) - but they can become toxic if they are taken to the extreme (Manda JO's story about the guy driving with a knife in his leg being a great example, IMO).

I think similar strides have already been made in society to dispel stereotypes about what epitomizes femininity - ie. the idea that being demure, helpless and chaste are desirable traits in a woman is probably much less mainstream than it may have been a century ago. The gradual evolution of social standards is likely how "toxic masculinity" will be fought as well.