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Old 05-15-2019, 12:15 PM
monstro is online now
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 20,742
Originally Posted by msmith537 View Post
True, but I think there are some traits that are specific to men and women that are a biproduct of societies expectations for them. I don't think it's realistic to act as if all people are interchangeable, sexless, beige blobs with no context around the culture they are from.

For "toxic masculinity", I would use Ari Gold from Entourage (Jeremy Piven) as an example.

For "toxic femininity", I would use Selena Meyer from Veep (Julia Louise-Dreyfus).

While both characters are narcissistic, crude, obnoxious, offensive, racist, classist, sexist, homophobic, loud, abusive, bullies, there are some differences:

Selena seems to be able to turn on her "charm" like a switch. Going from "fuck, cunt, dildo up the ass" to very sweet, even flirtatious in the blink of an eye. Even while she is planning to stab someone in the back.

In contrast, Ari Gold is more or less Ari Gold all the time.

IOW, Ari Gold's "toxic manliness" is that he is constantly "alpha male"ing everyone around him while Selena Meyer's "toxic femininity" is that her charm and womanly guiles are means to getting what she wants and a mask for her true abusive nature.

Although, this does beg the question whether these potrayals of each character are fair. Ari Gold is shown to be competent, in spite of his lack of charm while Selena is shown to be superficially charming, but often inept and stupid.
Your last point highlights something key. A man behaving badly can still be assumed to be competent. Meanwhile, feminine charm covers up incompetence. So an impressionable guy might absorb the message "I don't have to worry about being courteous and respectful, because that shit doesn't matter to a real man." And an impressionable womam might absorb the message "I don't have to worry about being smart and capable. As long as I am cute and flirty, I can get anything I want. Girl power!"

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