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Old 02-15-2018, 05:13 AM
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iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
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Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
I'm jumping in here with an answer, and quoting myself from earlier today (#602): Regarding the question of Christian bakers who agree to sell to any and all comers of any description any goods they may require which the bakers customarily purvey to the public, except in those cases which may arise in which the customer requests that the baker exercise his or her artistic expression in a manner that violates her conscience, it would seem that there's a distinction between religious precept and religious counsel, and also between negative and positive directions from God.

A precept is a commandment: each Christian must obey a precept in its fullness as soon as he is old enough to be responsible for his actions. A positive precept is something the Christian must do: ("Keep holy the Sabbath day.") A negative precept is something he must not do. ("Thou shalt not kill.")

A counsel is advice which the Christian must treat with reverence from his earliest age of reason, but which not every Christian is morally bound to observe. And the counsels may also be positive ("Go, sell all that thou hast, and give to the poor, and follow me" - which only some are called to do, not all) or negative, for example, to refrain from embracing the goods of marriage and family life for the sake of the Kingdom, which only some, not all, are called to do.

No Christian may intentionally excuse himself from the words of Saint Paul, "And whatever you do, in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him." (Colossians 3:17) This is a matter of precept.

Also of precept is the First Commandment which requires Jews and Christians to honor God above all things, and which would forbid them placing before God an offering of that which He has forbidden.

Among the things which God has forbidden are homosexual relationships, and by extension, homosexual marriages.

Therefore, in fulfilling the precept given by the Apostle to do all in the Name of the Lord Jesus, which is of precept, the baker offends God if she voluntarily undertakes any action that which she cannot lawfully offer to God in Jesus' name.

And for the State to attempt to compel her to do so, is for the State to compel her to violate her conscience.
I missed this earlier.

To a non-believer like me, this is gobbledygook. I'm sure it means something to you, but to me it's not possible to distinguish it from other claims that their religion genuinely forbids baking cakes for interracial couples. If I can't tell the difference, how is a secular government supposed to tell the difference?