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Old 09-06-2019, 10:09 PM
QuickSilver is offline
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 20,328
Originally Posted by Abatis View Post
An unalienable right that can be exercised (or not) separate and apart from any connection to the idea of, or any actual structure of [government] organized militia.
Fair enough. But there is no "organized militia". Given sufficient stretch of imagination, one car argue there is an "unorganized militia". There isn't. We know that. But let's just say we're feeling generous in our interpretation of the armed citizenry in the modern era.

Originally Posted by Abatis View Post
Wrong question . . .

Where was the power granted to the federal government to allow it to condition the right to self defense, to allow the government to exclude the use of firearms?
Well, we exclude some types of firearms. Without getting into state v. federal laws, some parts of the country are more strict than others with respect to gun control laws. So it's not like restrictions on firearms are anomalous.

Originally Posted by Abatis View Post
Do you understand what the implications are of a right being unalienable or at a minimum, retained? That means that no aspect of the right was placed into the hands of government, it remains in the hands of the people.
Homer Simpson: Just because I don't agree, doesn't mean I don't understand.

Originally Posted by Abatis View Post
This is a situation of two retained rights, the right of self defense and the right to keep and bear arms (retaining the use of arms for self defense of person and political self defense, and a myriad of other lawful uses).
I don't suppose it would influence your point of view if I were to point to democratic societies that happen to enjoy all the freedoms enjoyed by Americans, but without the special protection of rights to guns. As a Canadian living in Canada, I've never felt that my right to life was in question due to legal and cultural barriers to gun ownership. Living in America, I have to admit that I feel much less safe, in no small part due to the ubiquity of guns, low legal bar for access, and the culture that promotes it.

Perhaps the right question is...: Are you sure that the unalienable right to life is better served by everyone having access to guns, or, by only very few having access to guns?
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.

Last edited by QuickSilver; 09-06-2019 at 10:10 PM.