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Old 10-31-2014, 03:40 PM
brickbacon is offline
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 4,895
Originally Posted by kittykatband View Post
If we are thinking that Adnan is looking really guilty, it seems to me it is mainly because he is so unclear about what happened in that day and has poor explanations when asked. I have to remind myself that this is all based on a timeline and account of events put forth by JAY.
Yes and no. Jay's account of what happened is what helps us tie all the other unimpeachable evidence together into a cohesive story. A story that is not really necessary for conviction, but does help create a more understandable narrative.

Originally Posted by kittykatband View Post
We have no real evidence that indeed Hae was killed in this way except that Jay said so.
What do you mean? We know the approximate time she disappeared, how she was killed, where her body was, etc. Jay's testimony only bolstered what we know based on outside info.

Originally Posted by kittykatband View Post
Then we have all these folks that remembered something through the purple haze, after Adnan was arrested.
It's hard to tell how much of their memory is ex post facto, but I don't think you can say all of them are lying or mistaken. This a problem in most cases w/o much physical evidence of a crime. Memories are mutable and shaky, but the idea that multiple people had memory failure in a way that implicates Adnan is far fetched.

Originally Posted by kittykatband View Post
It occurs to me that perhaps the reason Adnan is so fuzzy about details is because HE WASN'T THERE. If he wasn't there, he can't know.
This makes no sense. Of course he can remember where he was even if he was not at the crime scene and had nothing to do with it. No one has asked him what happened to Hae. They've asked where HE was. How can he not have ANY idea given the multiple significant things that happened that day? Especially given he seems to remember everything BUT where he was during the crucial time period. He remembers calling Hae to give him his number the night before. He remembers it's Stephanie's birthday. He remembers loaning his car to Jay. He remembers getting a call from Hae's family and a detective. Yet, he doesn't remember ANY other details about the day?

This is part of why I don't think there is a reasonable doubt here. Let's look at what essentially had to happen for Adnan to be completely innocent.

Unlucky Coincidence #1: He calls Hae three times the night before she disappears, then never bothers to call her again.

Yes, he could have gotten updates from her friends, but there were 5 days that passed between when she disappeared and when they next had school during which he didn't reach out. There is also weird conflict of him being so insistent on speaking to her the day before that he calls her 3 times (twice after midnight) just to giver her his cell number that he could have given her the next day, yet perfectly fine waiting for updates on her completely falling off the planet from her friends during class.

UC #2: Police happen to find a really damaging note Hae wrote to him about being possessive and not getting over the breakup. A note on which he unfortunately happens to write about killing.

UC #3: He talks to Stephanie, and realizes that day, the day Hae ends up disappearing, how much she wants and expects a present from Jay.

UC #4: He contacts Jay that day, and not only is Jay at home to answer the phone, but Jay has also not gotten Stephanie a present. Additionally, Jay also has no means of getting one for some reason. Why Jay couldn't have asked Jen, who had a car and free time is not explained. Given Adnan says they were casual friends, why wouldn't Jay ask his best/better friend Jen for a ride since she gives him a ride later that day?

UC #5: He offers to loan Jay his car and cell phone in order for him to get Stephanie a present on the same day Jay happens to kill or be involved with a murder somehow.

Then Adnan goes about his day: he finishes school that day, goes to the library, then to track practice, then gets picked up by Jay. He is completely unaware anything criminal has gone on.

UC #4: Jay, sometime before 3:15, abducts and/or kills Hae. How he manages to do this is in question given she has no reason or desire to be alone with Jay, but it somehow happens. Additionally, he completes this act during the narrow time window he has Adnan's car and phone. He also either buys a present during this time, or tells Adnan he bought a present during this time.

UC #5: Jay, likely with the help of an unknown accomplice, manages to move Adnan's car and Hae's body. Then he goes back to pick up Adnan at practice.

UC #6: Jay concocts this idea to frame Adnan that afternoon. He tells Jenn Adnan killed Hae that day. He does this without knowing whether Adnan had a rock solid alibi; something he should probably assume to be the case given he was participating in group activities in a public place during the time Jay is off killing Hae.

UC #7: During the time Jay has his phone, Jay accidentally butt dials a friend of Adnan's, stays on the phone for 2 minutes, but doesn't converse with anyone on the other end.

UC #8: Adnan goes to smoke weed that evening with Jay and others as usual. For some reason, others there note his odd behavior. He also ends up getting a call from the cops about Hae but he thinks it's no big deal despite the fact that her parents are so worried that they contact the police.

UC #9: Later that day, both Jay and Adnan are together near Leakin Park where Hae is/will be buried. We know this because of the cell records. We also know Hae was likely buried that day because there was an ice storm the following 2 days. So Jay commits the crime, buries Hae, then take Adnan back to the scene later that evening unbeknownst to Adnan.

There is more but I will stop there. Do you honestly think ALL or even most of those things make more sense than Adnan killing her?