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Old 07-12-2019, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
I believe he's referring to the bump stock ban.

In terms of due process, though, I believe he's wrong.

Yes, the President did seem to ban them by executive fiat. And that can be a bit concerning to me. But to argue there was no due process is simply wrong. The new rule was issued, the rationale shared and comments were requested.

At any point in the process those opposed to it could either comment or file suit against the DoJ asking the courts to strike down or hold the regulation. Some did, the courts did not agree that it was unconstitutional. Due process doesn't mean that one gets the outcome one just means that the process is followed.
This isn't the way such things are supposed to work. An agency (especially one who previously published that such devices were legal) should not simply be able to ban something simply because the POTUS wants it without an act of Congress. After physical and scientific review BATFE published that bump stock equipped firearms were not machine guns, and now suddenly they are because Trump says they are? That's horseshit and you know it. The way this took place should be more than just "a bit concerning" to you. The lack of due process comes from the fact that hundreds of thousands of citizens are denied their lawfully acquired property without just compensation. A clear violation of the 5th Amendment. No grandfather clause, no registration option, no loop holes whtsoever.

Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
I don't think they've been around for that long
The consumer versions of them have been around for almost 30 years. Prior to them people were making their own using about $4 worth of wood. There were also bump shot triggers dating back to the 70's and 80's. It hasn't been clear if they are included in the bump stock ban. Many of them work on the same principle.

There was an early version that got approved and then unapproved by ATF because it had a spring in it. The versions that are now banned are nothing more than a single piece of plastic. No springs, moving parts or other alterations to the rifle.

It's the manner in which the ban took place that should terrify anyone who cherishes their freedom and the mechanisms of our republic. There are several more lawsuits pending including a class action demanding just compensation. Myself and several of my customers are involved with that one. We stopped selling them last year. In February we had to post a sign instructing folks that we were not accepting returns of bump stocks, and they were not allowed on property after the ban deadline in March.

Several states have banned them, still a violation of the 2nd Amendment IMHO, but at least they created those bans in the legal manner in which law is to be created. While those laws seem redundant I believe they did so because they think the federal ban will be overturned by the courts eventually. Even Dianne Feinstein stated she believes that will happen. I bet that some people did not turn in or destroy their bump stocks. There are literally hundreds of thousands of otherwise law abiding Americans who are guilty of a serious federal felony because they are keeping a piece of plastic that just happens to be molded in a certain shape hidden in their attic, closet, or garage. A piece of plastic!

Now, if a piece of plastic can be banned so easily, what is to stop a ban on most ammunition? Most rifle ammo will defeat soft body armor. What's to stop them from using that as a reason to ban it? How about a ban on civilian possession of hollow points? Or do what many countries do and ban possession of ammo larger than .380? Or a ban on possessing more than 2 rounds of ammunition on your person. If the courts rejected or refused to hear your arguments, what exactly would you be able to do about it? If BATFE can ban a piece of plastic with no input from congress, what is to stop them from banning many kinds of bullets?