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Old 09-11-2019, 11:26 AM
Manda JO is offline
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 11,476
Originally Posted by sps49sd View Post
Could you mention some of those ways, please?
Restorative discipline. Working WITH parents to discover what the problem is. Better classroom management. Not having racist asshole teachers bait black kids, and not having racist timid teachers freak out because if a black kid is loud in the hall, it's seen as a prelude to assault.

Originally Posted by LAZombie View Post
I don't believe you, and I attended one of the roughest inner city schools you could imagine. I never saw the teachers behave that way. They were too afraid to be anything but respectful.

Students are suspended largely for the benefit and safety of the other students who want to learn. Too many liberals forget about them.
That makes no sense. If a student is a threat to the safety of other students, removing them for 2-3 days every few weeks is not going to make anyone safer.

Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
The reason they're doing this is that the schools don't try alternatives.

Think about this from an economics perspective; if they are not forced or incentivized to find ways of resolving behavioural problems, the easiest thing to do is kick the kid out of the school and make her someone else's problem. People and organizations will take the path of least resistance; it's just human nature.

There ARE cases where a child must be suspended or expelled. That is just the way it is. The problem in some boards is they use the suspension hammer all the time and usually against black kids.

This bill tells kids nothing. Children don't pay attention to legislation.
This. All those terrible schools everyone is complaining about DO suspend kids--and they are terrible still. It doesn't work. It doesn't change behavior. The kid is back in a few days. And if he didn't deserve it--if he was suspended for some bullshit that white kids get away with--he's now behind academically, humiliated, resentful--and he's learned that being suspended is no big deal. So he acts out even more, and maybe the next suspensions are for more clearly egregious behavior. But it never had to be like that. That kid's LITERAL LIFE has been ruined because some teacher decided he was a "bad seed" at nine.

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
Thanks for sharing this.

I agree there are racist teachers. How to deal with them? Well obviously "diversity training" as we all know has little effect and often makes things worse. They cant be fired because of tenure laws.

However I dont think blanket rules against suspensions help either.
This isn't a blanket rule. It's a rule against vague, groundless suspensions. It's an attempt to invite self-reflection. I've been a racist teacher. I probably still am, though I try to monitor myself. But I know when I was young and straight from the suburbs, I "read" behavior different from kids based on race. Conversations like this truly helped me see how deeply entrenched the School-to-Prison pathway was and how I was complicit in it. And it made me notice my colleagues who were much more overt than I.

Look, middle-class white America loves the narrative of urban schools full of animalistic black kids lashing out at the kindly white teachers who only want to help them but are powerless against the biological reality that no one can help these kids. As a culture, we lap this shit up because it gets us off the hook for dealing with things like poverty and racism. But I've been here for nearly twenty years, and I am telling you, it's not that simple. This is not all good teachers against rabid youth.

If you don't believe that--if you don't believe that there is a significant minority of teachers who ARE racist--than there's no point in us even talking.