View Single Post
Old 06-13-2019, 04:31 PM
Shodan is offline
Charter Member
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 40,213
Originally Posted by Helmut Doork View Post
Is it possible to punch someone multiple times yet have no marks of any kind on your hands or knuckles? Are we to think Zimmerman jumped Martin and proceeded to slap and tickle him?
In theory, sure. My old sensei used to say "hard target, soft weapon; soft target, hard weapon". Noses are soft targets and fists are hard weapons. Unfortunately, temples and jaws are hard targets and tend to damage the fist. So in practice, the more you punch someone, the more marks on your knuckles.
Originally Posted by Sunny Daze
Based on this, how could I possibly know? The person would more injuries could absolutely have initiated the confrontation. People pick fights with the wrong people all the time. The injuries alone do not tell the story, because they cannot provide a timeline.
Could have, sure. And therefore, in a court of law, the presumption of innocence means if you can't prove he was the initial attacker, the accused goes free.

Outside a court of law, you go by the best evidence available, which is that the person starting a fight usually suffers fewer injuries than the one being attacked - usually, not always - and that people are more likely to start fights if they think they can win them.

So there is non-definitive evidence that Martin was the first to use violence, and no evidence that Zimmerman was the first.

Add to that the other circumstances that are pretty definitely established - that Martin was definitely on top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman was never on top of Martin (grass stains and moisture on Martin's knees, grass stains and moisture on Zimmerman's back, no grass stains or moisture on Martin's back or Zimmerman's knees, the witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman bashing his head into the ground), that Martin did punch Zimmerman (Martin's knuckles, Zimmerman's nose), that Martin did bash Zimmerman's head into the ground (the gashes on the back of Zimmerman's head) - the balance of probability tends to shift.