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Old 05-17-2019, 07:07 AM
clairobscur is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
The international community of nations (UN).
No it didn't. When the UN was involved, immigration had already taken place and it was a done deal.

Besides, even if the UN had somehow allowed immigration in Palestine, it wouldn't make it right. If your wealthiest neighbors gathered and decided that you'll share your house with Syrian refugees even though they know that you don't want to, you probably wouldn't find it right.


Quote:
In the post war years 1945-1960, dozens of new nations were formed due to de-colonization, mostly in Asia and Africa. But Israel is the one that's most often found at the sharp end of people's tongues. Why is that?
Could it be because most of these nations nations weren't formed to become the homeland of immigrants against the will of the local population?

Could it be also because Israel is discussed in the news every other day? If Sri Lanka was making the headlines on a regular basis and Israel almost never, we'd probably talk a lot more about Tamils and a lot less about Jews. Could it be also because people start threads related to Israel, and then wonder why Isreal history is discussed only when someone is critical of this history?


Quote:
Yes, they played a large role. Already established. Why keep harping on the point?
Because it's a very significant point. A colonial power has imposed the migration of European settlers against the will of the local population. If they hadn't been Jews, I'm pretty sure that pretty much nobody on this board would argue in support of this action, and pretty much everybody would agree that Palestinians have been seriously wronged in this instance. But instead, most people in this thread are trying to find any possible argument to whitewash what happened and make it appears as perfectly justified.


Quote:
The survivors had lost everything and everyone. Many did not have homes or even villages and towns to return to. Some were afraid to return to a place where they were turned in by their neighbors. Some, understandably, wanted a new start far away from the tragedy they barely survived.
First, immigration didn't start after WWII, so you can't use the Shoah (which is what I assume you mean with "lost everything and everyone") as a post ex facto justification. Second, as I already pointed out, even after WWII, emigrating to Palestine was neither a simple nor a safe move. Palestine was by then already a pressure cooker that pretty much everybody expected to explode. Jews moving to Canada did what you say. Jews moving to Palestine knew that they would likely have to fight Palestinians for the land. It makes a difference. They put their own self-interest over that of the locals, and were willing to fight them to further these interests, which you could argue is an usual human behavior (although, again, Jews *opposed* to moving to Palestine on ideological grounds weren't rare), but it doesn't make it right and laudable.

Once again, if desperate Syrian refugees settled in your house, would you be happy with it? What if your supposedly well meaning neighbor had forced you at gunpoint to take them in?


Quote:
Some had that in mind, not all, specifically those few migrating prior to the rise of fascism. But in the aftermath, survival was their primary motive, not colonization and contempt for indigenous people of Palestine. Most just wanted a safe place to live in peace and a chance to restart and rebuild their lives.
You're free to think that I guess. Do you assume that European Jews were somehow free of prejudice wrt Arabs? Do you think that people who established Israel just had immediate survival in their mind? In other words, do you think that these people weren't Zionists, but just random refugees?

A question : do you think that early immigrants to Palestine are typically presented as helpless victims who had no other choice (as you think they were) in Israel's national legend/ historical narrative?
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Last edited by clairobscur; 05-17-2019 at 07:11 AM.